quick Q on Azonic Outlaw wheelset- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. quick Q on Azonic Outlaw wheelset - axles

    (I'm still a bolt-on-axle "virgin" , but now possibly thinkin' about a 20mm-axle fork & wheelset...)

    When you buy this wheelset, does it come with 4 different "axles" for both the convertible "bolt-on" & "quick-release" options? Namely, does the whole package contain; wheels x2; hub-conversion kits (x4); 10mm/QR axles (x2) and 12mm/rear axle (x1) and 20mm/front axle (x1)? Or, are axles sold separatedly, not included?

    Also, how do you "convert" the axle kits, exactly? (any tools needed, or on-the-fly etc?) Do you simply slide in/out some kind of a tubular piece that takes up/out the axle diameter before securing the wheels?

    If there was an online manual (PDF) somewhere, I'd have look at it myself, but no such luck. Thanks for your info in advance,
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 05-17-2006 at 09:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Just roll it......
    Reputation: ebxtreme's Avatar
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    My wheelset is a 150x12mm rear end, so I'm not sure about the 135mm setup for the rear.

    The front comes with a 20mm and standard QR setup. No tools are necessary to swap these out on the front. Very clean and easy.

    Cheers,
    EBX

  3. #3
    DH on a HT
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    on the rear you do need tools ... but 2 ajustables wrenches will work...... and if you need a standard axle for a bike that normaly uses quickrelease then you will need to but azonics momentum alxe its like $15

  4. #4
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    The 135mm wheelset comes with: two wheels, two QRs, a 12mm. thru-axle, and a 20mm. conversion kit. The 20mm. conversion kit consists of two 20mm. diameter rings that fit wihout tools onto lips on the outside of the front hub. The front hub comes stock in the QR mode. You don't need any tools to change the front hub from QR to 20mm. All you have to do is remove the 20mm. cylinder containing that QR stepdown, fit the rings onto either of the front hub and carefully set it in your fork's dropouts before installing the 20mm. axle (which comes with your fork, not the wheelset). This step can be a pain because the rings insist on falling off and rolling under the refrigerator until the wheel is actually set.

    For the rear, all you need are two adjustable wrenches. You unscrew a locking cap on the non-drive side, pull the QR axle out of the drive side, slide the 12mm axle in through the drive side, and tighten the new locking cap on the non-drive side (that came on the 12mm axle). You don't even have to take the cassette off.

    Like the poster above said, if you have a standard QR rear dropout, you will have to purchase the Azonic Momentum axle for $19.95 (including shipping) from Azonic's website. I just did.

    The momentum axle has a step down at the ends from 12mm to 10mm so that it can fit on a std. QR rear dropout.

    Hope this helps.

  5. #5
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    The front wheel comes with a QR setup on it. You can easily convert it to 20mm with two cones included. You supply your own 20mm through axle, as that normally comes with your 20mm through axle fork.

    The rear wheel also comes set up with the complete QR system. The package includes adaptors for making it a 12mm through axle. It comes with a massive 12-mm bolt you can use if you have large 12mm dropouts. If you have normal dropouts in your frame, you will want to purchase the Momentum axle because it has smaller threaded ends that will fit into standard dropouts, thus allowing you to run a 12mm through axle hub on a frame with normal dropouts.

    Conversion is very easy. In the front you just screw out and then screw in adaptors that have larger or smaller holes to hold the axle. In the rear you have to take out the hollow axle that holds the QR, which requires a couple of cone wrenches and possibly a cassette remover, insert the new axle, and tighten everything back down. The cartridge bearings mean you don't have to go chasing little ball all over.
    Last edited by BikeMk; 05-17-2006 at 04:07 PM.

  6. #6
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    If you want to go bolt-on in the rear do not buy the Azonic Momentum axle (12mm to 10mm). The track nuts will chew the crap out of your drop outs.

    Buy this from Atomlab instead. It is 100% better. I have both the Momentum axle and the Atomlab kit. The Atomlab kit secures the rear wheel way better. It is more expensive. Buy once and buy correct.

    http://www.ride-this.com/product.php?item=20250001


  7. #7
    kona-tize me captain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    If you want to go bolt-on in the rear do not buy the Azonic Momentum axle (12mm to 10mm). The track nuts will chew the crap out of your drop outs.

    Buy this from Atomlab instead. It is 100% better. I have both the Momentum axle and the Atomlab kit. The Atomlab kit secures the rear wheel way better. It is more expensive. Buy once and buy correct.

    http://www.ride-this.com/product.php?item=20250001


    is that for normal QR hubs? i need to find a solid axel for my rear shimano xt hub and that could work right thurr
    Looking for a 7.87 x 2.25mm shock, any brand any age that runs well!! cheap would be appreciated!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinb89
    is that for normal QR hubs? i need to find a solid axel for my rear shimano xt hub and that could work right thurr
    No, the Atomlab kit only works on 135 x 12 hubs.

    If you want to convert your XT hub to bolt on you want this. http://www.bti-usa.com/item.asp?item...wSec=0&filter= from Wheels Manufacturing. Take the BTI part number to your LBS and they should be able to order it for you. It costs about $10 to buy and around $10 to have it installed.

  9. #9
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    Reputation: BikeMk's Avatar
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    The nuts on that Atomlab axle look like the surface that contacts the dropout is smooth, which would explain why your dropouts don't get marked up as much. Looks like it would be great for vertical dropouts, plus it's hex keyed, which is much nicer than having to lug around a big old wrench. However, in a single-speeded horizontal dropout situation I would personally much rather run the old standard track nuts with teeth and have marked up dropouts and no wheel slipage.

    An alternative solution is to find some toothed washers and then tighen flat nuts down against the washers so you don't actually spin the teeth when tightening/loosening the wheel.

  10. #10
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    True track nuts actually don't really chew up your frame, are you sure they're not just regular flanged nuts?

  11. #11
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    Reputation: BikeMk's Avatar
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    Nevermind. You are correct. The Outlaw wheels and the Momentum axle come with serrated flange nuts, not true track nuts, which it turns out are defined by the fact that they have integrated washers.
    Last edited by BikeMk; 05-17-2006 at 07:52 PM.

  12. #12
    Meh.
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    I switched to true track nuts on my Coiler after the serrated flange nuts started to chew up my drops.

    You can get the track nuts with a serrated or smooth washer. The smooth ones work just fine, even with horizontal dropouts.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
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    WWW.SPEEDGOAT.COM HAS THE AXLE FOR $25.

  14. #14
    Pro Crastinator
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    i can't believe i am hearing all you flippin' pansies cry about track nuts "chewing" up your dropouts. even if you take them off 5 times a day, all they really do is just mark up the paint. if your frame droupouts are being chewed up badly, your frame is a piece of crap made with cheap material.....


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by switch55
    WWW.SPEEDGOAT.COM HAS THE AXLE FOR $25.
    That is for the 20mm fron to 9mm QR. Not the 12mm to 10mm rear mentioned above. It is $45.00 on speedgoat.

  16. #16
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    Cheaper option:
    http://www.azonicusa.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=116
    and a set of real track nuts from your LBS if you are really worried about cosmetic marks on your dropouts.

  17. #17
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    Good job! Track Nuts vs Serrated Flange Nuts

    I never even knew about those different nuts.


    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_tp-z.html#tracknut



    Thanks, everyone, for all the great info - from the basics to the extras.
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 05-18-2006 at 07:59 PM.

  18. #18
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    New question here. 10mm-12mm-10mm rear axle thinggie - strength ?

    One more question...

    Whether it's Azonic's or Atomlab's, don't these 10mm-12mm-10mm rear axle thinggies (for using 12mm-axle rear wheel on a regular QR/10mm-dropout frame) sorta have "weak spots" at where the axle is stepped down to 10mm diameter on both ends? Meaning, isn't it weaker than a "true" end-to-end 12mm axle (used only on a 12mm-rear-axle frame), though it may be a bit stronger than regular end-to-end 10mm/QR axle? If so, doesn't it defeat the very purpose of the bolt-on rear axle, which is supposed to be stronger?

    I'm confused...






    Thanks,
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 05-21-2006 at 11:32 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiroChu
    One more question...

    Whether it's Azonic's or Atomlab's, don't these 12mm/10mm rear axle thinggies (for using 12mm-axle rear wheel on a regular QR/10mm-dropout frame) have a "weakest link" at where the axle is thinned down to 10mm diameter on both ends? Meaning, isn't it weaker than a "true" end-to-end 12mm axle (used on a 12mm-rear-axle frame), though it may be a bit stronger than regular end-to-end 10mm QR axle? If so, doesn't it defeat the very purpose of the bolt-on rear axle, which is supposed to be stronger?

    I'm confused...


    Thanks,
    - PiroChu
    All things being equal 10mm axle will not be as strong as a 12mm one. After all 12mm is 20% bigger but not necessarily 20% stronger.

    If your frame has a 12mm x 135mm rear end you might as well take advantage of it. Most frames are 10mm x 135mm. So you wouldn't be able to utilize the 12mm axle. There are tons of DH frame with 10mm rear end, Demo 8, Enduro SX Trail which have been hucked and what not. The Atom Lab axle is heavy and strong. Weak not really.

    I used the Atom Lab kit because the 12mm to QR axle that came with my Azonic Outlaw wheelset wouldn't stay in the shallow dropout of my Yeti AS-X. The Azonic bolt axle's track nuts were tearing up my frame. The Atom Lan kit didn't.

  20. #20
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    Hmmm, My friend and I have had quite alot of problems with this wheel and the adapter. if you tighten up the nuts too much the bearings start to bind in the hub. not fun if you have horiz drops. was not impressed, my dimension hub can be cranked on and not have this problem. Just so you know if the wheel starts bindin, this is why.

  21. #21
    Meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    I used the Atom Lab kit because the 12mm to QR axle that came with my Azonic Outlaw wheelset wouldn't stay in the shallow dropout of my Yeti AS-X. The Azonic bolt axle's track nuts were tearing up my frame. The Atom Lan kit didn't.
    You mean serrated flange nuts. True track nuts don't chew up the frame, and they fasten the wheel much more securely.

  22. #22
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    Doesn't the hub use sealed cartridge bearings? It shouldn't be a problem if it does.

  23. #23
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    That's what we thought, (and it's the reason why my Dimension doesn't have this issue) but it feels just like when you tighten the cones too much on a old standard bearing hub. makes you wonder what the internals of the hub look like, but it ain't my wheel, or I'd know.

  24. #24
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    The Outlaw does use sealed cartridge bearings. I've never had a problem with it tightening up on me, and I've cranked down on the serrated flange nuts pretty hard. If the hub does compress a little bit with pressure, one could easily get around it just like you have to do with almost all hubs: adjust it a little loose when it's free, just to the point that it is perfectly adjusted when it's clamped down. The hub is very simple to pull apart and look at, which you basically have to do when replacing the axle.

    Also, to answer a question above, the 12 to 10mm stepped through axle should not be noticeably weaker than a straight 12-mm through axle when using the same style dropouts. The idea of the big axle is that you put a larger, more solid chunk of metal in the rear end of your bike, thus bracing the end of your chainstays more rigidly. A few things to consider:
    --The 12->10 stepped axles will still leave you with at least the same sized interface between your hub and the inner surface of your dropouts as you would have with a straight 12-mm axle.
    --There should not be significant stress added to the ends of the axle in the process of machining it down for the step, so it is not inherently a weak spot in the axle other than the fact that it is 2mm smaller in diameter.
    --The short 10mm portion is stuck at the very end, right where it clamps to the droput.
    --Many other things will fail on your bike before the 10mm portion of your stepped axle does.

    Overall, you might get a stiffer set-up with a straight 12-mm axle, but it would be marginally so. A standard 10-mm threaded axle would be, as far as most people would be able to tell, as good as a 12-->10 setup. I don't think there is a strong reason to get a stepped axle and hub setup in terms of performance advantage. The best reason is to do it because that's what you have or it is easy for you to get, and a stepped axle is a way to make the hub work on your standard frame.

  25. #25
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    Any cleaver ways to better secure those conversion caps ?

    [QUOTE=panthro]This step can be a pain because the rings insist on falling off and rolling under the refrigerator until the wheel is actually set.


    Hi panthro,

    You mean, this happens only while doing the conversion of QR-to/from-20mm, or any time other than while the front wheel is mounted onto the fork? (I think you meant the latter. If so...)

    Can't those conversion caps "securely" thumb-pressed in hard enough (though not "locked in", per se) at all? Are there any cleaver ways to set these conversion caps in a bit more securely? (ie. a dab of silicon glu, or drops of lock-tite, etc).

    So, while at home, the caps "roll under the refrigerator" (LOL ), which is bad enough. If/when some trail-side attention is needed to warrant dismounting the front wheel, losing the caps in the poison-oak bushes would be really bad...


    Borrowing some pic's from other "conversion" hubs/caps here, just for my visual reference...







    Thanks,
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 06-04-2006 at 07:40 PM.

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