Question for Zedro, JM or other Shiver Gurus- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Question for Zedro, JM or other Shiver Gurus

    I just picked up an 02 Shiver. It comes with heavy springs and 10 wt. oil. I weigh 225, so my question is, will I need even heavier springs, and what oil do you recommend? Also, what is the deal with the pressure release top caps? Is that something I will need to be concerned about with an 02 model? Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    Wow...Im about your size and got a 02 Shiver with my V-10 and have some questions. And the damn Marzocchi website only has a generic manual on their site now, probably so they're not as liable or something. Just wondering, what are the actual adjustments on it? It seems the top ones are rebound, are the nuts on the bottom compression or rebound or what? Im actually not sure what springs/oil is in my fork currently as I haven't taken it apart yet to look, but what would be a good/recommended setup?
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  3. #3
    Jm.
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    there is no compression adjustment on a shiver, by going to heavier oil like 10 weight you can reduce some of the brake-diving characteristics. The addition of adjustable compression damping usually means worse-damping 99.9% of the time. The 00 marzocchis had it, and of course you know about rear shocks like fox vanilla RCs. What you may not be aware of is that a compression adjustment that just affects the "entire range" at once like the ones on the RCs and 00 marzocchis makes the fork/shock ride like arse if you adjust it to have any compression damping. The problem is that to really make an effective adjustment, you need to have low and high speed damping, and some sort of blow-off for the low speed. These forks do not have this feature, and this is a LOT harder to incorperate than a simple "compression" adjustment. So while many shocks and forks have compression adjustments, not all of them are "usefull". These days with shocks like romic (low speed compression blow-off) and the 5th element (again, low-speed compression adjustment) there actually ARE dampers out there that have usefull compression adjustments, but just because the shiver doesn't have a "compression" adjustment don't knock it, there's tons of forks and rear shocks that have a compression adjustment that is for all intents and purposes, "useless".

    As far as springs, I'd imagine at 225 you'd be ok with 10 weight oil and heavy springs. It's going to depend partially on your own personal preferences. Here's how you go about this process though, measure your sag, compare it to the recommended sag, if there is no recommended sag just use 15-25% of total travel for the sag. If you are not getting this sag, you need heavier springs. If you are getting the proper sag, but you are bottoming the fork, you need to add a little oil. Add one "capfull" of oil to each leg at a time when "fine tuning" the oil height. Repeat process if necessary.

    As for oil, and good motorycle-fork oil without seal-swellers works great. Golden-Spectro 7.5wt is the OEM oil that comes in marzocchi forks. Maxima, Spectro, Bel-Ray, Yamaha, Silkone, and other motorcycle-fork oils work fine. I usually buy 7wt because I'm more like 190-200lbs and I like the action from that. At your weight 10wt is probably the way to go.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  4. #4
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    hey jm i have a question for you too. on the 03 boxxer team, can you adjust the oil height to control bottoming like in the monster/shiver? i have heard you cannot. im not saying i need any more progression, but i have extra springs and different weight oils and was wondering if i could increase oil volume like in marzocchi forks. so like for instance if i go big hucking i can fine tune the fork for drops that day.
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  5. #5
    Jm.
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    No.

    Technically it works (I've tried it), but they have much "weaker" seals comparatively, and when you increase it just a little bit, you dramatically increase the odds of blowing out the seals. The seals barely hold up when you don't do this, but the fork simply wasn't meant to adjusted with the oil height.

    You can internally adjust the high speed compression in a boxxer and externally adjust the low speed. These should help a bit with resisting bottomout on "hucks".
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    No.

    Technically it works (I've tried it), but they have much "weaker" seals comparatively, and when you increase it just a little bit, you dramatically increase the odds of blowing out the seals. The seals barely hold up when you don't do this, but the fork simply wasn't meant to adjusted with the oil height.

    You can internally adjust the high speed compression in a boxxer and externally adjust the low speed. These should help a bit with resisting bottomout on "hucks".
    thanks jm. as usual you know your sh*t. i figured that since you owned both shivers and boxxers you would know exactly what i wanted to do oil height wise. i will stick with 115mm from the top of the stanchion but i will play with the compression adjusters.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    No.

    Technically it works (I've tried it), but they have much "weaker" seals comparatively, and when you increase it just a little bit, you dramatically increase the odds of blowing out the seals. The seals barely hold up when you don't do this, but the fork simply wasn't meant to adjusted with the oil height.

    You can internally adjust the high speed compression in a boxxer and externally adjust the low speed. These should help a bit with resisting bottomout on "hucks".
    Jm, thanks for the help, so both of the adjusters on top are for rebound correct? Is there any difference between the the tiny screw and the larger adjustment things around it?
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  8. #8
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    thanks jm. as usual you know your sh*t. i figured that since you owned both shivers and boxxers you would know exactly what i wanted to do oil height wise. i will stick with 115mm from the top of the stanchion but i will play with the compression adjusters.
    i had my old 99 boxxer tuned really well for drops and jumps, it wouldn't bottom but I was getting full travel. in this regard, it was pretty good. i was about 180lbs, used medium (yellow) springs, had 20wt oil in both legs, and had at least 3 turns of the low speed compression adjuster
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  9. #9
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    my fork is set up close to that but i weigh 160 and like forks set up for riders a little heavier. the boxxer out tracks and corner/handles better than a 01 monster, 01 super t and 02 white bros dh-2. when they are set up right they rock. i guess all the flack they get is from the jr.t race version and the fact that some teams and world cups have the occaisonal 'lemon" damper. mine did and the previous owner just had rock shox black box it at the sea otter and then it rocked.

    btw less turning radius has nothing to do with cornering ability. i railed a double switchback on a 18 degree pitch that would have had me flailing on my monster t. i had a hearty laugh as i buttered a section that normally tensed me up. now if the boxxer could just handle all my drops i will be so happy.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    my fork is set up close to that but i weigh 160 and like forks set up for riders a little heavier. the boxxer out tracks and corner/handles better than a 01 monster, 01 super t and 02 white bros dh-2. when they are set up right they rock. i guess all the flack they get is from the jr.t race version and the fact that some teams and world cups have the occaisonal 'lemon" damper. mine did and the previous owner just had rock shox black box it at the sea otter and then it rocked.

    btw less turning radius has nothing to do with cornering ability. i railed a double switchback on a 18 degree pitch that would have had me flailing on my monster t. i had a hearty laugh as i buttered a section that normally tensed me up. now if the boxxer could just handle all my drops i will be so happy.
    hey mark! I actually got off my computer this morning and started to build some dirt jumps near my house. Do you have any tips/instructions on how to build them that I could use? The dirt that's there is dark sort of sandy/soil. So far I've built 2 small jumps with lips that are like 2 feet high and like 5 feet gaps, but I just cant make the lips very steep, do i just need to bring some water and keep piling it on or what?
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by COmtbiker12
    Jm, thanks for the help, so both of the adjusters on top are for rebound correct? Is there any difference between the the tiny screw and the larger adjustment things around it?
    the screws are the rebound adjusters, the knobs below it are the spring preload adjusters. Just a note, when you adjust the preload knobs, the rebound screws will also sping with it; this is normal. However when adjusting rebound, the screws should turn on their own (sometimes the preload knobs get stuck to them).

    Also at 225lbs, chances are you may need x-firm springs, or one heavy and one firm. This you'll figure out with your proper sag height; as usual, control bottom-out via oil height.

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