PayPal = Zero Protection vs. Scammers- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Lez go.
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    PayPal = Zero Protection vs. Scammers

    OK, so my brother decides to buy a Marz VF2 off Pinkbike (listing is still up there, by the way):

    http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/231009/

    A couple back-and-forth emails with no problem from the seller who just set up the PayPal account, address confirmed, so on and so on. Seems legit, so he goes ahead and sends the money through PayPal.

    Long story short, 3 weeks later and the seller won't respond. Scammed. The guy kept updating the listing on Pinkbike though, so I sent an inquiry from another email address and sure enough, got back to me right away, eager to do the deal through PayPal.

    What's disheartening though, is how (without reading the PayPal User Agreement) you would assume they cover you in the event of a scam. I mean, it's supposed to be such a secure method of payment, right? They get you coming and going with fees, and for what?? Luckilly, he used his Amex through PayPal, so as soon as he contacted them, they credited his account and told him they'd deal with it. If he had issued an instant payment through his bank account, however, the following email would have been even more of a kick in the nuts:


    From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
    Subject: Resolution of Buyer Complaint Case # XXXXXXXX

    Dear XXXXXXX

    We have concluded our investigation into the following case:

    Case ID: XXXXXXX
    Transaction Date: Feb 24, 2007
    Transaction Amount: -$520.00 CAD
    Seller's Email: [email protected] Seller's Name: Jordan Dreaver

    After careful review, we have determined that the seller is at fault but regret to inform you that we were unable to recover any funds from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.

    We appreciate your business and apologize for any inconvenience this situation may have caused. Please know that we will make our best effort to recover the funds in question if they become available in the seller's account in the future and will take appropriate action against the seller.

    Such action may include issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or terminating the account. Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors to determine when to take action, including member complaints.

    Due to privacy laws, we cannot discuss the details of any action taken.
    We hope you understand our policy and that it assures you that you are safe using PayPal.

    To ensure that future transactions proceed smoothly, we recommend that you review these Security Tips:

    http://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cm...buyers-outside

    Sincerely,

    Protection Services Department
    Last edited by Mega T; 03-19-2007 at 02:10 PM.
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  2. #2
    Old No. 7
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    See if pinkbike will give you an IP address and see where you can go from there.
    06 888 RC2X FOR SALE! PM FOR DETAILS

    ...the mustache has spoken

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred.r
    See if pinkbike will give you an IP address and see where you can go from there.

    and press charges
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  4. #4
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    always best to buy with a credit card...buyer protection
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  5. #5
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    i'd find his house and pay him a visit......


  6. #6
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    lock and load


    and as stated ALWAYS pay with a credit card

  7. #7
    Disco-Superfly
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    check out the demo he has "for sale".... the pictures are from ebay... I searched his email in ebay.... guess what, no user... must have taken the pics from ebay


    dirty piece of sh1t....


    EDIT: I guess the 888 pics are ebay too...
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  8. #8
    dirt rules
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    What's disheartening though, is how (without reading the PayPal User Agreement) you would assume they cover you in the event of a scam. I mean, it's supposed to be such a secure method of payment, right? They get you coming and going with fees, and for what?? Luckilly, he used his Amex through PayPal, so as soon as he contacted them, they credited his account and told him they'd deal with it.
    Lucky.... Fyck paypal, I use them because I pretty much have to, and it's a big convienience, but their service is shyt.
    ALWAYS use a credit card for payment, besides having more protection, it costs paypal more, they have to pick up the creditcard fees.

    I just double checked with my CC company, ANY charge to your card is covered by their protection. Even through gaypal.
    Of course, paypal wants you to use your debit/bank account, they don't get charged any fees if they suck it from your checking or savings.
    Last edited by sittingduck; 03-19-2007 at 02:50 PM.

  9. #9
    El Pollo Diablo
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    *shrug*
    I have had no problems with paypal, just like everything else online, don't be an idiot/too trusting online, and you'll do OK.
    (I've been trading and selling stuff online for a long time now, only gotten screwed twice, for a grand total of about 40 bucks.)

  10. #10
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    sorry dude....the guy is from shithole saskatchewan...good luck ever finding him.

    i'm not a paypal fan either.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    always best to buy with a credit card...buyer protection
    What's funny is how paypal tries to get you to pay via bank transfer and not credit card, offering all this BS protection.

    I'm hoping another payment service takes hold, like Google Checkout, or something, so ebay and paypal doesn't have you by the balls.

  12. #12
    i drink shower water
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    sucks he got ripped off. its a pain in the ass no matter how you pay. companies offer you protection but then try to get out of it when oyu need their help.
    Prison is hard, everything else is easy

  13. #13
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    I bought some ram from a BIG seller off Ebay. Never got it. Filed a dispute after about a month with Paypal. 2 weeks later, Paypal refunded my money. No questions asked. They just sucked it back out of his account. Guess if the guy bailed and no longer had a bank account, I'd of been screwed. But as long as they have a way to get the money back, they will.

  14. #14
    Disco-Superfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyD
    I bought some ram from a BIG seller off Ebay. Never got it. Filed a dispute after about a month with Paypal. 2 weeks later, Paypal refunded my money. No questions asked. They just sucked it back out of his account. Guess if the guy bailed and no longer had a bank account, I'd of been screwed. But as long as they have a way to get the money back, they will.
    well that's through ebay too... i think thier polocies a bit different???
    I dont know sh1t about that stuff...
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  15. #15
    Cinchy is a cool word ok?
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    I'm gonna email him like I am going to buy it and see what happens.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankinpickle
    I'm gonna email him like I am going to buy it and see what happens.
    tell him you will mail cash.... send him a man porn pic or something....
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  17. #17
    Cinchy is a cool word ok?
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    tell him you will mail cash.... send him a man porn pic or something....
    I was actually going to tell him that I was gonna send cash and then post hids address here, but the man porn thing is a better idea.... that or anthrax.

  18. #18
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    you have to be a verified to business memeber to get protection.

  19. #19
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    Same thing happened to me, sorta...

    Started using ebay for smaller bike bits, One bigger purchase I made I needed a paypal account, so I went ahead and made one. Used it for that one purchase and pretty much forgot about it. 6 months later I log on my internet banking and find I'm down $150 - wtf

    Fill out the report form, send it off, the next day I get an e-mail from the seller of the un-authorised purchase, abusing the crap out of me, blaming me that she's going to be out of pocket 150 yada yada yada. I wasn't really sure how this was going to turn out, but log on thismorning and the $150 is back in my account

    For all the security they rave on about it seemed pretty easy for the scammer to access my account.

  20. #20
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    I wonder if it's the same person from this PinkBike thread:

    http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=142122

    Also from Saskatoon. If it is him, Im surprised PinkBike hasnt done anything to ban him from posting further items for sale.

    Also, SITTING DUCK, paypal passes the credit card fees on to the seller.

  21. #21
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    Dude, not trying to sound like a punk but why do you think PayPal should protect you if you paid some random person on the internet who you've never met...nor do you have any way to verify if the guy is legit or not?

    PayPal is very clear in that they offer the most protection when you transact on eBay. I've had a few problems with eBay transactions and they've always quickly fixed the situation...assuming I was shipping to a confirmed address, etc, etc.

    Some people don't like the fees associated with eBay, but I just view it as a cost of doing business....and almost like insurance. If you follow the eBay rules they will help you out. If you buy from random people they won't. My rule of thumb is that I transact on eBay or I do deals in person with cash.

    Sorry to hear about your loss. Happy trails.
    1x9's rule

  22. #22
    Lez go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantdude
    Dude, not trying to sound like a punk but why do you think PayPal should protect you if you paid some random person on the internet who you've never met...nor do you have any way to verify if the guy is legit or not?
    Understood, but I've done plenty of legit business on eBay, pinkbike, and mtbr classifieds, and I haven't met any of those buyers/sellers either. I'm not sure what PayPal's verification process consists of, but I assume one requires an address and verifiable identification to set up a bank account. Assuming PayPal collects this information, I don't think it would be too much to ask that they forward the scam recipient the scammer's last known address so that the scam recipient can pay someone to, say, visit the scammer and rape them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantdude
    PayPal is very clear in that they offer the most protection when you transact on eBay. I've had a few problems with eBay transactions and they've always quickly fixed the situation...assuming I was shipping to a confirmed address, etc, etc.
    I once paid for an item through PayPal which was never received. It was only a $30 pair of shorts, but I basically got the same form letter telling me I was SOL. The outsourced customer service agent from India confirmed the statement in the letter when I contacted them by phone.

    Some people don't like the fees associated with eBay, but I just view it as a cost of doing business....and almost like insurance. If you follow the eBay rules they will help you out. If you buy from random people they won't. My rule of thumb is that I transact on eBay or I do deals in person with cash.
    I really don't mind paying 10-15% fees for an eBay transaction. For sellers, there's simply no larger audience. But for bikes/parts, I always check pinkbike and the mtbr classifieds first. I bought a frame and fork off pinkbike and sold a few things on mtbr. All smooth transactions without the 10% eBay fees.
    Team C2G
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  23. #23
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    Thankfully, I have yet to have any eBay/ Paypal issues. Can someone list a few tips or opinions on how to protect yourself from SCAMMER'S. Great thread. I had never really thought about "paying by cash", the extra protection of credit cards, IP addresses etc. I blindly allowed myself to be sucked into the whole "PAYPAL" is the only option scam.

  24. #24
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    When I bought a bike through the MTBR classifieds I paid with Paypal and was able to purchase insurance from Paypal in connection with the transaction. Cost me 5% of the amount I was sending but it was worth it for the peace of mind.

    That said, make sure you read the fine print of the user agreements when you do these types of transactions (eg Paypal will only insure the transaction up to $1000).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTRIDR
    Thankfully, I have yet to have any eBay/ Paypal issues. Can someone list a few tips or opinions on how to protect yourself from SCAMMER'S. Great thread. I had never really thought about "paying by cash", the extra protection of credit cards, IP addresses etc. I blindly allowed myself to be sucked into the whole "PAYPAL" is the only option scam.
    Buy from Ebay sellers with 95% or higher positive. Make sure you use PayPal. Make sure there is a PayPal notice on the listing saying the item is covered for up to $2000 (or whatever amount, as long as it is higher than the item you are buying). Make sure the seller has at least about 50 feedback, and not only from sellers. Read the feedback from buyers and make sure it is favorable. If buying out of country expect duties and taxes at the border and clarify all shipping costs in advance. Read all small print. And always use a credit card to pay if possible

  26. #26
    Glad to Be Alive
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    Word Of Advice

    real world experience for you youngins....


    Always buy with a credit card........EVERYTHING that way you can always file a disbute and get your money back

    cash....money is gone .....you have to sue to get it back (it isn't worth your time)

    check almost as bad as cash but a little better (you have proof of transaction) you can stop payment on it if you think you are getting screwed but if the check cleared you are in the cash boat.....sue to get money back

    debit/credit cards.....you can always get your money back....might take a month but you can get it back

    Moral of the story....Purchase everything with credit card/debit card but best to use credit card.....

    learn from this for everyday life
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  27. #27
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    WTF? Pink Bike still has both the Demo and 888 ads up. I would have thought they would have responded more promptly.
    "BONES HEAL, CHICKS DIG SCARS, PAIN GOES AWAY"
    07 SX TRAIL III
    07 DEMO 8

  28. #28
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    Arrrrrrrrrr- Than yeee Mayyyteee!!

    I don't care what they say about Pirate swine- you are OK!

  29. #29
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    And for people who don't have credit cards, just walk down to the store and buy one of those prepaid visa cards, but the ones you can add money too. I have one and any time I go to order something online, I just put the cash onto my visa, and feel safe knowing I'm protected.

  30. #30
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    Prepaid Visa's??? Nice!!! Any "outrageous" transaction fees on those prepaids?

  31. #31
    dirt rules
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  32. #32
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    Thanks! I don't buy much stuff on eBay. Never really thought about the prepaid angle. I will definetly look into it. Thanks for the link.

  33. #33
    Cinchy is a cool word ok?
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    Here's he bastard

    The forks will be sent out via Fedex through my work. Funds can be paid
    through Western Union.
    Here's my info:

    Kelly Dreaver
    683 Branion Dr
    Prince Albert,SK
    S6V8A7

    Also I will be needing all your shipping info and the mcn# once the
    money is
    sent. Hope to be hearing from you soon thanks.


    Hope you get your money back.

  34. #34
    Disco-Superfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankinpickle
    The forks will be sent out via Fedex through my work. Funds can be paid
    through Western Union.
    Here's my info:

    Kelly Dreaver
    683 Branion Dr
    Prince Albert,SK
    S6V8A7

    Also I will be needing all your shipping info and the mcn# once the
    money is
    sent. Hope to be hearing from you soon thanks.


    Hope you get your money back.
    You might want to PM the orig. poster... the mods might take off someone's personal info... just a heads up..
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  35. #35
    Disco-Superfly
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    Well it looks like they finally decided to remove the ad....

    I actually had an email from a guy who wanted to buy it.... He emailed me about the scam comment and I saved him... I linked him here too for proof..

    anyways... someone send the d1ck some presents....
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  36. #36
    Disco-Superfly
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    [email protected]

    email him.... for fun...
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  37. #37
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    spam his email

  38. #38
    XC Champion
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    This one's been up for a few years now...
    http://www.paypalsucks.com/

  39. #39
    Lez go.
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    Where's Whitefish/Medow Lakes???

    This can't possibly be the guy, can it? Only thing that comes up under an exact search on google, plus a little digging shows some Canadian addresses...

    http://Kelseyplayboy.bebo.com
    Team C2G
    Jah is my copilot.

  40. #40
    Disco-Superfly
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    dirty scammer....
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega T
    Where's Whitefish/Medow Lakes???

    This can't possibly be the guy, can it? Only thing that comes up under an exact search on google, plus a little digging shows some Canadian addresses...

    http://Kelseyplayboy.bebo.com
    http://www.meadowlake.ca/general/tourism.html

    medow lake is in saskatchewan.... that's the guy!
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  42. #42
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    ok this is all I came up with.. (with help)

    Kelly Dreaver
    683 Branion Dr
    Prince Albert SK

    S6V8A7

    <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<font size=" /><st1:City><ST1<FONT face=Verdana>Sandy</ST1</st1:City><FONT face=Verdana> lake, <st1:State><ST1<FONT face=Verdana>Saskatchewan</ST1</st1:State><st1:country-region><ST1<FONT face=Verdana>Canada</ST1</st1:country-region>
    <FONT size=3><st1:country-region><ST1</st1:country-region>
    <FONT size=3><st1:country-region><ST1<FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Whitefish/Meadow <ST1<FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Lake</ST1<FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> SK (hometown)</ST1</st1:country-region>
    <FONT size=3><st1:country-region><ST1</ST1</st1:country-region>
    <FONT size=3><st1:country-region><ST1<FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana><FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#0000ff>[email protected]

    <FONT face=Verdana>

    <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>one of these is his phone #
    <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>

    <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>this is his address:
    <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>

    </st1:country-region>
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  43. #43
    inner peace to make peace
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    Purchase everything with credit card

    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    Word Of Advice

    real world experience for you youngins....


    Always buy with a credit card........EVERYTHING that way you can always file a disbute and get your money back

    cash....money is gone .....you have to sue to get it back (it isn't worth your time)

    check almost as bad as cash but a little better (you have proof of transaction) you can stop payment on it if you think you are getting screwed but if the check cleared you are in the cash boat.....sue to get money back

    debit/credit cards.....you can always get your money back....might take a month but you can get it back

    Moral of the story....Purchase everything with credit card/debit card but best to use credit card.....

    learn from this for everyday life
    got it: Purchase everything with credit card.

    in EBAY, i only buy with a reputable seller with over 10 recents sales.
    when I bough my golf clubs, Titleist 670 ironset, I was a bit concerned, but was OK.

    i'd rather buy new bicycle parts and new bicycles, from a LBS
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  44. #44
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    Nice work Gentleman!

  45. #45
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    Scammer

    Ok ok I got scammed by this Kelly Dreaver also from St Albert Sasakatchewan. Gave an address of 1011 Knox Place.....checked out 411.ca and got a number fro that address, called it, after Isent the money ...a lil old lady answered....didnt know who he was....went under the email name Rick Drake. Because I sent a money order out....I got nuthin back....
    Kelly Dreaver
    1011 Knox Place
    Prince albert,
    Saskatchewan
    S6v 2t8
    >From: JD>>To: Rick Drake <[email protected]>>Subject: RE: Hope Mono6-Ti Brakes>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:13:22 -0500

    I sent him the money....and got Jack!!!!! At least it wasnt much...the point is....We can all get taken.

  46. #46
    Err
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    hopefully the next picture posted of this kid will involve him bleeding

  47. #47
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    how do you pay via credit card if you are buying 2nd hand?

    in australia there is no way that i can get money from someone if they give me their credit card details

    i ask because i want to buy a bike from pinkbike

  48. #48
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    I would be willing to bet that this is the same seller who called himself Chris Dreaver - he has been at this for a while now:

    http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=155037

    http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=143161

    http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=138806

    I do hope he get's what is coming to him...

  49. #49
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    Jordan Dreaver is a definite scammer... I know where he lives

    Hey guys. I'm all new to this, but this [email protected] scammed me too over PAypal.

    The only difference to this day is that I actually know where he lives and have contacted the police to start a full investigation.

    My story is long but he "Sold" me over paypal a 888 Marz suspension.

    After paying him and having no come backs, I started doing my research with the phone Number he gave me ..."Cell phone" that is.

    I found the owner of the phone: M. Francis D'Amato who lives in Prince Albert corner River Street and 1st Avenue East.

    Over the phone, after talking friendly with the guy, he told me what kind of bike he was Riding... which I crossed checked with his profile on PinkBike and it was it. BEAMZ on pinkbike, which was also Jordan Dreaver, happened to have the same bike as Francis D'Amato.

    Next thing you know the user had cleared all of his account off Pinkbike.com and I was calling him at home every 2 days.

    He recognized me the first 2 times and after a while, he said he had never talked to me.

    Look it up on th white pages, his father is M. D'Amato

    I contacted my local police and if you need info on this guy to file your own charges... let me know! I am very serious about this

  50. #50
    Part of this...
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2
    Jordan Dreaver is a definite scammer... I know where he lives

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hey guys. I'm all new to this, but this [email protected] scammed me too over PAypal.

    The only difference to this day is that I actually know where he lives and have contacted the police to start a full investigation.

    My story is long but he "Sold" me over paypal a 888 Marz suspension.

    After paying him and having no come backs, I started doing my research with the phone Number he gave me ..."Cell phone" that is.

    I found the owner of the phone: M. Francis D'Amato who lives in Prince Albert corner River Street and 1st Avenue East.

    Over the phone, after talking friendly with the guy, he told me what kind of bike he was Riding... which I crossed checked with his profile on PinkBike and it was it. BEAMZ on pinkbike, which was also Jordan Dreaver, happened to have the same bike as Francis D'Amato.

    Next thing you know the user had cleared all of his account off Pinkbike.com and I was calling him at home every 2 days.

    He recognized me the first 2 times and after a while, he said he had never talked to me.

    Look it up on th white pages, his father is M. D'Amato

    I contacted my local police and if you need info on this guy to file your own charges... let me know! I am very serious about this

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    187
    paypal sucks...once i sold a sub amp on ebay, got the money from the guy through paypal, sent the amp, all is good...a month later i get an e-mail from paypal saying that i owe them $150 b/c the guy that paid me didnt have sufficient funds, so apparently thats my problem? in that case i woulda been out $150 and the guy already had the amp...

    i just opened up a new account and ignored paypal....no way i was sending them $150

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1

    some people really suck!!!

    I was stupid enough to get myself scammed by kelly dreaver too, I hate him because I lost 700 us. the local cops said theres nothing I could do. I tried to buy the vp-free on pink bike (it's still for sale, those guys are retarted!). I made a new e-mail adress and contacted him again about the bike and he's trying to scam me again!!! how can some one be so stupid but so hard to catch? It must suck to have so many people hate you.

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