Next rim up from DT 5.1, in terms of toughness?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Next rim up from DT 5.1, in terms of toughness?

    I currently have two King/5.1 wheelsets, one brand new and one older. I am thinking of re-building the older wheelset with a bit tougher and more stout rim.

    What would be the next step up in rim? Mavic 823? Syncros DS28?

    I am starting to get more into light freeride/drops/etc, and am looking for a rim that's more durable for that riding. Forgot to add I don't need UST, as I run tubes.

    Edit: I also posted this in the Wheels forum, but didn't get much response, so I thought I might get some more hits over here.

  2. #2
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    Mavic 721 is a good choice.

  3. #3
    Err
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    Agree with mtb_biker but would also suggest that you seriously consider switching to UST and using ex823's. Makes for a very nice setup.

  4. #4
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    On suggestion for this very forum (choofoojoo actually) to me asking pretty much that same question, I went with a set of Halo Freedom Rims (built on the Hope Pro II hub). I have NOT been disappointed - they are barely heavier than the 4.1s I moved up from, they are not too wide at 28mm (good for DH...maybe not suitable for the huckers), but tough as nails. I've actually already managed to put a pretty nasty dent in the front one already (but I had to give it my very best though to achieve this... ) - the rim has stayed pretty true and shows no cracks (its still soft enough to give a little despite being really deep in its section). I'd say these babies fit the description of what you are looking for fairly closely.

  5. #5
    sixsixtysix
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    I am loving the King/823 setup, nice and light, but burly enough to beat on.

  6. #6
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    not dt 6.1 that's for sure.

    i just got ex729 and very nice they are.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    I am loving the King/823 setup, nice and light, but burly enough to beat on.
    Actually the 823s are very heavy... the heaviest rim that mavic makes. His DT 5.1s were 500g, your 823s are 725g..that is a HUGE difference.


    My suggestion would be 721s @ about 590g if you are a tube guy. IF you want to go tubeless, then 823/721 are pretty much a toss up in weight.

  8. #8
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    823's are not 725g they are around 650g plus take into account no tubes.
    You NEVER run a rim without a tyre so work it out, 823's are not a heavy rim in the grand scale of things as you can run them UST and super strong unlike the DT coke can material. Best to check out ur info before you make statements.

    Also 721's are not UST rims, mavic 8xx tubeless - mavic 7xx not tubeless.



    Cheers

    Derek
    Last edited by derekr; 04-11-2008 at 06:18 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekr
    823's are not 725g they are around 650g plus take into account no tubes.
    You NEVER run a rim without a tyre so work it out, 823's are not a heavy rim in the grand scale of things as you can run them UST and super strong unlike the DT coke can material. Best to check out ur info before you make statements.

    Also 721's are not UST rims, mavic 8xx tubeless - mavic 7xx not tubeless.

    Cheers

    Derek
    as should you the 823 are in the 700+ plus range,did you forget about the nipple's.

    also proper ust tyres are heavy compared to a normal tyre,and thats one of the resons i have never run tubless,there are no weight savings to be had.

    http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/sho...php/photo/6398

    check link provided for proof of 823 weight.

  10. #10
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    Forgive me for asking what may be a ignorant questions, but since I haven't ever run tubeless I am not sure.

    If I had a 823, or other UST rim, can I just throw a UST tire on there and be done with it (along with the valve stem of course)? Or would I still need to put some Stan's goop or something similar in there with it? I was under the impression the "goop" was just for use on non-UST rims and/or tires.

    Is there a "Tubeless for Idiots" book I can buy?

    Thanks for the advice so far though, I do appreciate it.

  11. #11
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    Some people use sealant with UST rims, i've never had a problem running tubeless with no sealant.

  12. #12
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    Yes, sealant. The word escaped me this morning. That's what happens when you are up at 3:45 am and you haven't had any coffee yet.

  13. #13
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    I have the DS28s and I'm very pleased with them. However, if I had it to do over again I would go with the 823s. I run tubeless using Stan's strips and sealant which is nice but I'd rather be able to just throw the tire on and air it up without having to worry about the strips. The DS28s do seem pretty stiff and strong. I've done many 5' drops to flat on concrete and they are in perfect shape still. A 5' drop to flat concrete doesn't compare to a high speed smack to a square edged rock though. I'll be hitting some of those soon so we'll see how they hold up.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatkimura
    I have the DS28s and I'm very pleased with them. However, if I had it to do over again I would go with the 823s. I run tubeless using Stan's strips and sealant which is nice but I'd rather be able to just throw the tire on and air it up without having to worry about the strips. The DS28s do seem pretty stiff and strong. I've done many 5' drops to flat on concrete and they are in perfect shape still. A 5' drop to flat concrete doesn't compare to a high speed smack to a square edged rock though. I'll be hitting some of those soon so we'll see how they hold up.

    That was Chad's recommendation when he built up my 5.1/King wheelset, that the DS28 were the next beefier step up rim wise.

    The DS 28 just looks so similar to the 5.1 spec wise, I was thinking it wasn't enough of a jump, and maybe I needed a bit beefier?

  15. #15
    Err
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    I have two 823's on hand here now. I just put them on my Ultimate digi scale and they came out to 1300g total with the nipple cups and valve stems. I weighed the rims alone, one weighed 540g, the other, 560g. So and average total weight of 650g per rim, not bad.

  16. #16
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    Remember tubless it not only lighter than tubed setup, you also have the bonus of running very low presures and no pinch flats, anyone who has run tubeless (unless you had a bad experience which 9 times out of 10 is because the person dosent know what they are doing) would not go back to tubes.

    Bottom line its a great upgrade esp for the handling of your bike.

  17. #17
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    You can choose either:

    Mavic 721's with Ghetto Tubeless
    Mavic 823's with UST Tubeless.

    Ghetto Tubeless is just going to require a little bit more patience and knowledge over UST from what I hear. UST is a breeze, but I'd still put some Stans in any UST system to ensure you don't flat.

    I think 721's would be the way to go. 5.1D's are designed to be competitive to the 721s, but the 721's are the much better alternative. Go with 823's if you have any doubts about rim strength, but 721's should be fine.
    Northstar 2008 Riding Crew

  18. #18
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    Thanks guys. I think since I am doing this from scratch, if I did the Mavic route I def go with the 823's and forego the ghetto option.

    I run Schwalbe Big Betty's, and since the have a UST version out (or coming out soon), that'd be a wise choice I think.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekr
    823's are not 725g they are around 650g plus take into account no tubes.
    You NEVER run a rim without a tyre so work it out, 823's are not a heavy rim in the grand scale of things as you can run them UST and super strong unlike the DT coke can material. Best to check out ur info before you make statements.

    Also 721's are not UST rims, mavic 8xx tubeless - mavic 7xx not tubeless.



    Cheers

    Derek
    Derek,

    You're missing the Eyelets you NEED with 823 rims. Things are as Davep says. I almost didn't even upload that picture for this exact reason, and any educated rim/wheel builder knows you need the eyelets for UST rims (but not for non tubeless rims) as this is how the nipple is held to the rim.

    823 rim with necessary eyelets:


    716g (then add 5g for a ust valve core)

    721's (~580g) are the same inner diameter as your 5.1's as well. They're your best bet IMO unless you are going tubeless in which case 823's are nice and are easy to setup tubeless. However, if you're running tubeless (823's) they will come in roughly the same weight as a 721 converted to tubeless (stans).

    If he is going to be running a tube in his tire, i'd recommend a 721 coming off of a 5.1. Putting a tube in an 823 rim just doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by mtb_biker; 04-11-2008 at 03:51 PM.

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