A little more DH, a little less FR, a little pivot question...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    A little more DH, a little less FR, a little pivot question...

    After a long weekend in Marquette, MI for Superior Bike Fest, I'm hooked on this whole point down, go fast, jump stuff thing Seeing as how there are places to ride an easy drive from Chicago or NYC, I'm investing in a downhill bike. All mtn, trail, and freeride duties will be handled by an Iron Horse MKIII, so this can be a dedicated rig.

    I've ridden a couple of Banshee, Turner and Specialized frames, and didn't like the feel. A C'Dale Gemini, Santa Cruz Bullit, and a SC Heckler all felt good. Of course, set-up could have a lot to do with it, but it's interesting that the single pivots have felt the "best". I know it's not the newest or sexiest, but is there life left in the single pivot design?

    I like simple.

    Chip

  2. #2
    e.f.f.e.c.t smoothoperatr
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    one word


    morewood

  3. #3
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    Heck yes there is life left in em. The Cannondale, Orange or Cortina are all fine examples of single pivot bikes!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
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    judge or morewood
    IS THIS SOMETHING YOU CAN SHARE WITH THE REST OF US AMAZING LARRY ?!?!?!

    aircooled VW FTW

  5. #5
    ride hard take risks
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    Versus Blitz, needle bearings at all pivots, zerk fittings to maintain proper lubrication to the bearings without disassembly, rock solid virtually no laterall flex.

    http://www.versuscycles.com/blitz_detail.html
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    Haro .357 Mag 9

  7. #7
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    Wow...

  8. #8
    moaaar shimz
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    +1 Morewood

  9. #9
    high school loser
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianjenn
    Heck yes there is life left in em. The Cannondale, Orange or Cortina are all fine examples of single pivot bikes!!!!!!!!!!
    all of foes bikes are also single pivots
    member of the ZombiEKilleRSquadron
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Versus Blitz, needle bearings at all pivots, zerk fittings to maintain proper lubrication to the bearings without disassembly, rock solid virtually no laterall flex.

    http://www.versuscycles.com/blitz_detail.html
    not a single pivot
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobody242424
    all of foes bikes are also single pivots
    nope ......they are almost like virtual pivots
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya
    +1 Morewood

    There will be life in single pivots as long as there are single pivots that are executed well with good geometry and good engineering. There will never be anything lighter and simpler. Simpler also means more reliable. Also add the sinister r9 to your list.

  13. #13
    For Those About To Ride
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    Dhi's are also single pivots
    no dig no ride...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon
    Simpler also means more reliable. .
    not necessarily.......think about more stress at one point
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  15. #15
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    not a single pivot
    Many consider a faux bar a single, im not shure how they count though, nust be a Specialized thing. Any way i support the Dark side, Versus rules. We need to get you on one, Bob Blitz

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    . We need to get you on one, Bob Blitz
    nah....I have rode Stinky's, non FSR Turners and the trek........I will never ride a 4 bar again with out FSR
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  17. #17
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    how'd the bike fest go? I'm going to college up there in the fall and am bound to spend a ton of time riding there.

    oh, and single pivots rock, I love my Gemini, no problems yet

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the comments and suggestions, much appreciated.

    I spent a couple of hours out at our local trail/dj/northshore spot (CPX near Chicago) and really looked around at what people were riding, and listening to what they had to say. I'm still leaning toward a simple single pivot design, but I may have scaled back my thought that I need 7+ inches of travel. What I really need to pay attention to is geometry that works for me and be honest about what I'm really going to be riding.

    What I do know for sure is that a Revell 300s with an 80mm fork and 24" wheels isn't exactly the best choice for NS type drops and jumps made by guys with full sus bikes and big wheels. Well, at least not at my age!

    Thanks again for the comments and suggestions.

    Chip

  19. #19
    T.Dot Represent
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    get an FSR frame, or VPP or singlepivot with a floating brake and you'll be happy... i personally ride an FSR frame and will never go back
    fiiiiiiiiiiiinchizzzzzzzzzzle

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    not necessarily.......think about more stress at one point
    Not really any more than multi-pivots. With multi-pivots (specifically four bar) the stress is similar, but on more than one pivot instead. If what you are saying were the case, then spring rates would decrease the more pivots you added with everything (leverage ratio etc) being equal. With a single pivot you simply have fewer places to worry about and reinforce.

  21. #21
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    A really good bike for you would be Devinci. They have a really nice single pivot bike.

  22. #22
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    I raced that same course last year during the collegiate mtb season (did it on a ht). It was a fun course and they had it setup very nicely. Something in the 4-6" range is probably what you're wanting. Did you race the DH race?

  23. #23
    notabouttoseeyourlight
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    Pleeeeeeenty of life left in the "single pivot" design. There are about 10000 variations on the market that are single pivots, straight single pivots (orange, morewood), linkage actuated single pivots (foes, bmw), faux bar (kona, new turner, devinci [us versions at least]), etc...
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon
    Not really any more than multi-pivots. With multi-pivots (specifically four bar) the stress is similar, but on more than one pivot instead. If what you are saying were the case, then spring rates would decrease the more pivots you added with everything (leverage ratio etc) being equal. With a single pivot you simply have fewer places to worry about and reinforce.
    you forgot to say single pivots are less sexy because of that big arm.......
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Henderson
    I like simple.
    Chip
    Get a Bullit with the floater it works wonders an I am 100% happy with my bike even after 3 seasons.. on my 4th.

  26. #26
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    well of course.....you have a nice Shiver on it
    Quote Originally Posted by Axis
    Get a Bullit with the floater it works wonders an I am 100% happy with my bike even after 3 seasons.. on my 4th.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  27. #27
    moaaar shimz
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    Damn you shiver addicts



    jk

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobody242424
    all of foes bikes are also single pivots

    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    nope ......they are almost like virtual pivots
    sometimes i am amazed at the level of stupidity at which you post SMT. all foes bikes are single pivots w/ a swing link......


  29. #29
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    In my experience (FSR links at least) leave you feeling less connected to the bike and the ground.

    I ride an Orange and find it rides VERY differently to multi-link bikes - I can pop off stuff and carve berms more confidently (and sucessfully) and my bike really rares to go the second I put down the power which I love.

    It may just be that it's the fact that I've never owned a multiple pivot frame but I have ridden with them a fair few times...

    I do agree that multiple pivots and linkages make for some very sexy machines (and some great marketing spiel) but in my experience they just don't feel as live.

    Hope that helps.
    I'm on the Twitter.

  30. #30
    Equal opportunity meanie
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    SINISTER R9

    Best single pivot you can get IMO, up there with a DHR and an F4. Better than any Horst link/VPP/DW I've ridden. I agree with Ace also, single pivots to the axle feel way more responsive and seem to give you a better idea of where your wheel is than multi-link bikes.

    To Chip - challenge park is weak weak ****. You definetely do not need a DH rig for that. Ride some real DH courses (if you have access to them) and you'll see why the DH rig would be better.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFahn
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    please no


    get a morewood man
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    I raced that same course last year during the collegiate mtb season (did it on a ht). It was a fun course and they had it setup very nicely. Something in the 4-6" range is probably what you're wanting. Did you race the DH race?

    No, I didn't race, just rode for fun and helped out my pals that did race when I could. I got in a couple of runs on the course and had a lot of fun across the street.

    I think the 4-6" idea is right on, in fact, closer to 4-5". I'm set on building up a smooth and stiff jumper, something long and low that will be fun for what I have easy access to (riding wise).

    The Santa Cruz bikes just aren't going to work for me, the size/geometry just doesn't agree with me. Pretty much the same with the Specialized. Just too much of a feeling of sitting way up on the bike, and not really "in" the bike. I've got a build in mind, but you guys would just laugh...

    Chip

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Henderson

    I think the 4-6" idea is right on, in fact, closer to 4-5". I'm set on building up a smooth and stiff jumper, something long and low that will be fun for what I have easy access to (riding wise).

    Chip
    4-6", smooth and stiff jumper. Sounds like the Transition Bottle Rocket is right up your alley. 5.5" slopestyle bike.
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  34. #34
    Still on Training Wheels!
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    I love my Yeti AS-X. It's not a DH bike, but it does everything very well. It also has a couple linkages to increase its latteral stiffness which seems to be the biggest complaint with single pivots.
    It's not a good ride if you don't scare yourself at least once.


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  35. #35
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    One more time....

    Morewood

  36. #36
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    I'm another Bullit vote.
    But I guess it doesn't matter as Santa Cruz has been ruled out...
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    not necessarily.......think about more stress at one point
    Hence the swing link on the Foes, Judge etc.

    Go Morewood if you want a DH race bike. Its def not a FR bike.
    Extracting stings from wasps in flight.

  38. #38
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    maybe a morewood....maybe the heckler if you liked it, just set it up with one of the "fr" kits.

  39. #39
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    I ride most of the stuff in that area on my turner rail (single pivot) with only 4.5" of rear travel. no cliff huckstable for me though... haha. for this area, you don't need the frickin' 7"+ of travel... I really liked the recommendation of the Transition Bottle Rocket... perfect bike, for the flow... or Sinister Splinter! if only I had cash. and yeah, the Banshee is essentially a single pivot, look how the main swing arm moves, same path as a single pivot, no fsr link. So, it's probably just in your head, and comes down to the setup and mainly the geometry.

    Lickqid - get a hold of me, maybe we can hook up for a ride... are you familiar with the area?
    you too Chip, if you are in the area again... quite a few people from chicago head to that area it seems... and btw, I was really diggin' the Revell, asked you a couple of questions in the urban forum about it, but you never answered...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    SINISTER R9

    Best single pivot you can get IMO, up there with a DHR and an F4. Better than any Horst link/VPP/DW I've ridden. I agree with Ace also, single pivots to the axle feel way more responsive and seem to give you a better idea of where your wheel is than multi-link bikes.

    To Chip - challenge park is weak weak ****. You definetely do not need a DH rig for that. Ride some real DH courses (if you have access to them) and you'll see why the DH rig would be better.
    something like farmdale near peoria perhaps, i would give ya a tour with sombrio69 and standard235, really mild dh but still challenging.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwillywish
    something like farmdale near peoria perhaps, i would give ya a tour with sombrio69 and standard235, really mild dh but still challenging.
    Thanks for the offer! I live in California now but still visit Chicago once or twice a year. Took a look at challenge park and thought "hardtail material". I've heard a few things about Peoria though but I have no experience with it.

  42. #42
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    chip, definitely try as many bikes as you can to see what you like/dislike. even single-pivots will behave VERY differently from each other, as you will see if you try something with a lower pivot (DHR or Foes) compared to the ones you've already tried (Gemini, Heckler and Bullit all have a similar pivot placement).

    The great thing about the mtns around NYC is that they all rent bikes, and damn good ones at that. Plattekill rents Turner DHRs w/ Fox 40s, while Diablo rents IH Yakuzas (single-pivots) and Sundays (dw-link) so you can see what you like/don't like before you buy.


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