Light(er) DH cranks?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Light(er) DH cranks?

    I have Race Face Diabolus cranks now, which are great, but I'm trying to come up with creative ways to lower the weight of my downhill bike. I was thinking maybe Race Face Atlas cranks, but I don't know if they would hold up. I'm kinda thinking that they would, and plus I'm only about 165 lbs, so I wouldn't need super heavy duty stuff. I think. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    atlas would be ok.

    shimano hone or XT would be good too and less $.

  3. #3
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    Diabolus cranks are heavy. Saints, XTs, etc are all lighter. The Atlas cranks are a great AM crank, but I've seen them on plenty of DH rigs. They seem to hold up just fine.

    Middleburn cranks are awesome.

  4. #4
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    second the atlas's
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  5. #5
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    Aren't those XC cranks? Try the Evolves or Saints or Hones or XT's.
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  6. #6
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    Hones / XT get my vote. Hone's have the pedal inserts / washer as well which is nice and they're about 30g more than the xt's.

  7. #7
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    Hones also have the steel spider rather than the aluminum one.

    The Atlas cranks are not XC cranks. They're more AM cranks, but very burly still.

  8. #8
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    Middleburn!
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  9. #9
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    Profile Minis. A race BMX crank which you can get a spider and bottom bracket for through profile. http://profileracing.com/products_ho...?productid=138

    That is the link. They only weigh 24.4 ounces. Super Stiff and Ti.

  10. #10
    JMH
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    Gravity Light

    Sam Hill and MadCatz race on the Gravity Light, which is basically an ISIS XC crank with steel pedal inserts. It's really light and reasonably strong. I have them on a few bikes and they are good for AM and light FR. It works great for racing, but remember that it's not going to take huge drops and rock impacts for long.
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  11. #11
    Shaman
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    I third the Hones. I broke my Race Face Diabolous spider and replaced them with Hones in the middle of last season. I didn't weigh them but just holding them in my hand I could tell they were much lighter than the RF. They feel stiff and have held up well.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Sam Hill and MadCatz race on the Gravity Light, which is basically an ISIS XC crank with steel pedal inserts. It's really light and reasonably strong. I have them on a few bikes and they are good for AM and light FR. It works great for racing, but remember that it's not going to take huge drops and rock impacts for long.
    Any idea how these arms compare in weight to the old v-drives?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Sam Hill and MadCatz race on the Gravity Light, which is basically an ISIS XC crank with steel pedal inserts. It's really light and reasonably strong. I have them on a few bikes and they are good for AM and light FR. It works great for racing, but remember that it's not going to take huge drops and rock impacts for long.
    I wish I could find the picture but I have seen one of sam hill's cranks (those I assume) completly bent, so if your riding your cranks haggard and for a complete season or two I would skip them. Mind you this comes from no personal experience on them at all.

  14. #14
    JMH
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    Yeah, I believe that for sure. But since he races on them all the time, he apparently trusts them. They aren't intended to be indestructable. But they are really light and will survive more hits than your basic XC crank at the same weight. Bleu broke a pair of mine up at DV this summer with a vicious pedal strike/landing misadventure. But to be fair, he broke another totally different crank doing the same thing.

    I dunno, just my 2 cents for an extremely light DH racing-only crank.

    JMH



    Quote Originally Posted by hick_huckster01
    I wish I could find the picture but I have seen one of sam hill's cranks (those I assume) completly bent, so if your riding your cranks haggard and for a complete season or two I would skip them. Mind you this comes from no personal experience on them at all.

  15. #15
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    get Saints and don't worry no mo
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  16. #16
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    The Saints are only 50 grams less than the Diabolus's. The Atlas's are about 200 grams less than the Diabolus, about a half a pound. Coupled with all the other ridiculous amounts of money I'm planning on spending for lighter parts, that'll make a bit of a difference.

  17. #17
    DHS
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    another vote for Middleburns. i've beaten the crap out of mine. and still going strong..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by twouareks
    The Saints are only 50 grams less than the Diabolus's. The Atlas's are about 200 grams less than the Diabolus, about a half a pound. Coupled with all the other ridiculous amounts of money I'm planning on spending for lighter parts, that'll make a bit of a difference.
    Umm -- Saints are ~1100g, Diabolous are ~1300 - Atlast better be another 200g lighter or whats the point......

  19. #19
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    are hones lighter than saint

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Banzai
    Umm -- Saints are ~1100g, Diabolous are ~1300 - Atlast better be another 200g lighter or whats the point......
    I was going off the Race Face website, which says the Diabolus cranks are 1150g, and the Atlas cranks are 955g. And I was also going off the Shimano website, which says the Saint cranks are 1100g.

  21. #21
    BJ-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkyworks
    are hones lighter than saint
    No, there 200g heavyer...
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  22. #22
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    The new FUNN Hooka DH Cranks look good at 900grams
    here

  23. #23
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    I would have to say Middleburns,loads of people over here use them for trials riding because there very light and very strong,,they beat the crap out of them,but they hold up fine.

  24. #24
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    dont middleburns cost $$$

  25. #25
    DHS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkyworks
    dont middleburns cost $$$
    $250 or so. but its that they have a lifetime warrenty no questions asked. you hack saw them in half. you get new ones

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by twouareks
    The Saints are only 50 grams less than the Diabolus's. The Atlas's are about 200 grams less than the Diabolus, about a half a pound. Coupled with all the other ridiculous amounts of money I'm planning on spending for lighter parts, that'll make a bit of a difference.
    my bike weighs 39 pounds....with Saints
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  27. #27
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    If that's with an Outlaw wheelset, that's really impressive. What's that frame weigh?
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    If that's with an Outlaw wheelset, that's really impressive. What's that frame weigh?
    Dude, the Outlaws are light for a DH wheelset. They are about the same or lighter than the DEEMAX's.
    Ride!

  29. #29
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    I was on mibbleburns for a season, they are GREAT, super stiff super light, the only coplaint (and this actualy caused me to switch for holsfellers) was the fact that its ISIS and I fry BBs like. I would check thoes out they are realy nice
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  30. #30
    DHS
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    If that's with an Outlaw wheelset, that's really impressive. What's that frame weigh?
    no, those are hadley's laced to 823s. even lighter then deemax's

    and where's your Ti spring SHIVER?

  31. #31
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    The Atlases are plenty strong for DH. At your weight, you could probably run the Deuses (they are stronger than the old Turbines). The Cove DH team ran Atlases last year, and they go bigger and faster than you could ever dream. Avoid Shimanos - XTs are made from very soft aluminum with no pedal insert, LX/Hone are unnecessarily heavy, Saints are great but not really lighter than your current Diaboluses.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermoccasin
    The Atlases are plenty strong for DH. At your weight, you could probably run the Deuses (they are stronger than the old Turbines). The Cove DH team ran Atlases last year, and they go bigger and faster than you could ever dream. Avoid Shimanos - XTs are made from very soft aluminum with no pedal insert, LX/Hone are unnecessarily heavy, Saints are great but not really lighter than your current Diaboluses.

    The Diablious 1288grams (incl.BB) and it took 57.5 N/m to flex it by 1 millimeter.
    The Saints came in at 1108g and took 67.0 N/m to flex the same amount.

    That's pretty significant in my book. There's not many places where you can save that kind of weight, and have a better product by comparison.

    XTR 790g - 53.8 N/m
    XT 862g - 52.4 N/m
    Hone+LX 926g - 50.7 N/m
    Truvativ Stylo 884g - 52.6 N/m
    RF Evolve DH 1232g - 54.7 N/m
    RF Atlas 948g - 54.0 N/m
    RF Deus - not sure

    A few reason's not to go w/Race Face's from Farkin and other

    Shimano's setup:
    -The pinchbolts on non-drive-side crank rather than relying on a toleranced non-taper fit like Diabolus does (which eventually will flog out and have no way to be tightened). Also makes it much easier to not over-preload the bearings.

    - Normal retainer-style bearings with high quality seals, rather than full complement ones which tend not to like getting grit in them.

    - Hollow forged design rather than a machined I-beam shape (stronger)

    - A real warranty. There's tons of cases where RF didn't warranty their DH lifetime warranty cranks.

    -I've yet to see a set of destroyed Saints.

    list goes on

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCLINDER
    Dude, the Outlaws are light for a DH wheelset. They are about the same or lighter than the DEEMAX's.
    I've owned 3 sets of Outlaws. They're fairly tough and pretty affordable, but light is not one of their attributes. the rims are a reasonable weight, but the hubs lean towards the tank side of the scale. I don't know how much Deemax hubs weigh in comparison, but Hope hubs are way lighter, as are most other high end hubs.
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  34. #34
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    I love when real, verifiable numbers are used to trump a post full of personal feeling, e-rumors, and random statements presented as fact, with no background it truth.

    BTW I used to run Diobolus and had several issues. Each time I was told that it was an early production issue that was now solved. Two pairs (over a year and a half) got loose on the spindle (aluminun compressed and no longer fit the spindle) after being removed less than 5 times. They were replaced no questions. I had Atlases on a little 4X/dj type of bike and they held up to quite a beating (riding, not bashing into the ground) although they did feel (and by visual inspection) quite flexy in side deflection. They were not ever remove and had not developed any play. My current XTs feel significantly stiffer!
    (any idea if those flex #s were in a certain direction?)

    For the record, XTs do NOT use an aluminum spindle, it is steel. Not sure where the soft aluminum idea came from either in reference to the XTs. Shimano has in the past, always used a higher quality of aluminum in XT when compared to LX (hone and lx are the same cranks)
    I have also never had a stripped pedal thread in over 25 years of BMX/MTB on aluminum cranks from every mfg that you could think of. It is my personal feeling (with a lot of data to back that up) that stripped threads in cranks for the vast majority are a mechanic/maintanance issue.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    I love when real, verifiable numbers are used to trump a post full of personal feeling, e-rumors, and random statements presented as fact, with no background it truth.

    BTW I used to run Diobolus and had several issues. Each time I was told that it was an early production issue that was now solved. Two pairs (over a year and a half) got loose on the spindle (aluminun compressed and no longer fit the spindle) after being removed less than 5 times. They were replaced no questions. I had Atlases on a little 4X/dj type of bike and they held up to quite a beating (riding, not bashing into the ground) although they did feel (and by visual inspection) quite flexy in side deflection. They were not ever remove and had not developed any play. My current XTs feel significantly stiffer!
    (any idea if those flex #s were in a certain direction?)

    For the record, XTs do NOT use an aluminum spindle, it is steel. Not sure where the soft aluminum idea came from either in reference to the XTs. Shimano has in the past, always used a higher quality of aluminum in XT when compared to LX (hone and lx are the same cranks)
    I have also never had a stripped pedal thread in over 25 years of BMX/MTB on aluminum cranks from every mfg that you could think of. It is my personal feeling (with a lot of data to back that up) that stripped threads in cranks for the vast majority are a mechanic/maintanance issue.
    I do believe that the XT uses an aluminum spider though.

  36. #36
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    as do all cranks

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    as do all cranks
    I was under the impression that the Hones use a steel spider.

  38. #38
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    No cranks that I know of, use a steel spider (well, some super cheepo one peice K-mart type cranks do, but..). Maybe some super burly BMX or trial cranks??

    Hones are LXs for the three ring version. No difference except paint color. The three ring versions have an aluminum spindle (yikes) and no pedal inserts. The two ring version or the hone (not offeres as LX) have steel pedal inserts and (what looks like the same as the XT) steel spindle.

  39. #39
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    I've run Stylo confidently at one time on my DH rig. Very sturdy and stiff.

    On a side note my bro is riding Atlas on his FR rig..... he weighs in around 235lbs... he confidently hits 8ft drops and good size doubles. Alot of times it comes down to how smooth you are.... he is very smooth.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    No cranks that I know of, use a steel spider (well, some super cheepo one peice K-mart type cranks do, but..). Maybe some super burly BMX or trial cranks??

    Hones are LXs for the three ring version. No difference except paint color. The three ring versions have an aluminum spindle (yikes) and no pedal inserts. The two ring version or the hone (not offeres as LX) have steel pedal inserts and (what looks like the same as the XT) steel spindle.
    Perhaps that's what I was confusing it with. Thanks for the clarification.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    my bike weighs 39 pounds....with Saints
    Impressive, and no TI spring on it too!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBidnezz
    Impressive, and no TI spring on it too!
    Can't say the same for the rider.....

    As for Cranks, I say Saint or Holzfeller.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    The Diablious 1288grams (incl.BB) and it took 57.5 N/m to flex it by 1 millimeter.
    The Saints came in at 1108g and took 67.0 N/m to flex the same amount.
    RF Atlas 948g - 54.0 N/m
    From Weight Weenies:
    Saint 175mm 22/32/bash 1171gms
    Diabolus 175mm 22/32/bash 1314gms

    As I stated earlier, Saints are great but not worth it for such a small weight savings. The Atlas cranks are ~200gms lighter than the Saints. And strong enough for DH, according to the RaceFace rep I spoke to when they came out.

    Shimano's system is not perfect either - the pinchbolts fall out, bearings aren't much better than RaceFace, and both companies have hit-or-miss warranty coverage.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermoccasin
    From Weight Weenies:
    Saint 175mm 22/32/bash 1171gms
    Diabolus 175mm 22/32/bash 1314gms

    As I stated earlier, Saints are great but not worth it for such a small weight savings. The Atlas cranks are ~200gms lighter than the Saints. And strong enough for DH, according to the RaceFace rep I spoke to when they came out.

    Shimano's system is not perfect either - the pinchbolts fall out, bearings aren't much better than RaceFace, and both companies have hit-or-miss warranty coverage.
    There's more than one model for shimano saints fyi so your weights will fluctuate with chainrings/bash etc. Even by using your numbers, its ~150g. How much are Saint's? How much are Diabolus?

    Not worth it? Saints are $150 on Jenson. Find me a set of Diabolus, or even Atlas' for that price.

    I never said the Atlas' were not strong enough for DH.

    The pinch bolts fall out?? What kind of mechanic do you have?

    Bearings aren't much better? no comment. Look around and you'll see the truth

    I've yet to see a busted set of Saints. I'm sure they exist out there somewhere but i've seen a lot of RF's that were broken/damaged. Saints are definitely in more abundance and yet there's not posts saying that they cracked/spline wore out/spider broke/etc

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