Going from FSR to "contact system"- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Going from FSR to "contact system"

    Ive always been riding FSR and need a change now.Im pretty much set on the new Commencal Supreme DH but Ive never had the chance to ride one before.

    Now Im wondering what the difference will be.The contact system seems to be a modified single pivot, what will be the biggest advantage for me to ride this suspension design over the specialized?

    Im a smooth rider but I like to pin it and most of the time for me it means going on a straight line even if you have to plow, will the Supreme be a good bike for me coming from an FSR?

  2. #2
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    It will corner a lot faster for sure... Single pivots bike tend to be more flickable and especially one with a moto link system like the Supreme, it'll still have all the plow bike characteristics... Another bike i would also consider would be a Chumba F5. Just got mine and i'm loving it


  3. #3
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    You need to get even a short ride on the Commencal. I had a play on one a couple of weeks ago and was acutely aware of how flexible the rear was, at least in comparison to my '07 Big Hit. It's not a criticism, merely an observation, but it'll be a very different ride to your Demo. Would you do a frame+build or go for a stock bike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    You need to get even a short ride on the Commencal. I had a play on one a couple of weeks ago and was acutely aware of how flexible the rear was, at least in comparison to my '07 Big Hit. It's not a criticism, merely an observation, but it'll be a very different ride to your Demo. Would you do a frame+build or go for a stock bike?

    definitely a frame + build, so you've played a bit with a Commencal,how was it on square hits?

    Im aware it'll be hard to beat the Demo's rigidity but not too concern about it.

  5. #5
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    "Im aware it'll be hard to beat the Demo's rigidity but not too concern about it."

    Yeah, I only mention it because it was the first thing that hit me when I started pedalling. It wasn't a worrying flex, more like a "that'll feel quick" kind of flex, if that makes sense?

    I only had the bike (the Mini DH, I should add) for ten minutes or so and the worst I could give it was a couple of sets of stairs, a four or five feet drop, cleared once and ridden down the other. The bike came straight from the shop floor, so it's worth bearing in mind that the fork (55) and shock (Roco coil) weren't really set up, although it still felt pretty comfortable. As it was, the frame handled the stairs without issue, as would be expected, I suppose. I tried flicking the bike around on whatever uneven ground I could find and it always felt quick, the flex that was evident when the bike was stationary became a matter of suppleness when the bike was in motion. It gave the impression that it would be very comfortable to ride fast over twisty trails. I wish I could say more, but as I said my time and opportunity was limited.

    The only things that I didn't like about the Mini DH was some of the stock componentry, but if you're doing a frame+build then they are of no concern. I'd like to get a proper trail ride on one of these frames before I'd consider buying one, but my initial impression was favourable. I wouldn't like to make a recommendation on something as big as a frame, where personal preference plays such a huge role.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    It will corner a lot faster for sure... Single pivots bike tend to be more flickable and especially one with a moto link system like the Supreme, it'll still have all the plow bike characteristics... Another bike i would also consider would be a Chumba F5. Just got mine and i'm loving it
    Sweetie, would you mind putting in your sig that you're a "Chumba Sponsored Rider" because first you peddled Ibex, now you have Chumba sponsorship and the moment they offered it, you started peddling their products, even before you got your frame.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 09-01-2008 at 12:05 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    "Im aware it'll be hard to beat the Demo's rigidity but not too concern about it."

    Yeah, I only mention it because it was the first thing that hit me when I started pedalling. It wasn't a worrying flex, more like a "that'll feel quick" kind of flex, if that makes sense?

    I only had the bike (the Mini DH, I should add) for ten minutes or so and the worst I could give it was a couple of sets of stairs, a four or five feet drop, cleared once and ridden down the other. The bike came straight from the shop floor, so it's worth bearing in mind that the fork (55) and shock (Roco coil) weren't really set up, although it still felt pretty comfortable. As it was, the frame handled the stairs without issue, as would be expected, I suppose. I tried flicking the bike around on whatever uneven ground I could find and it always felt quick, the flex that was evident when the bike was stationary became a matter of suppleness when the bike was in motion. It gave the impression that it would be very comfortable to ride fast over twisty trails. I wish I could say more, but as I said my time and opportunity was limited.

    The only things that I didn't like about the Mini DH was some of the stock componentry, but if you're doing a frame+build then they are of no concern. I'd like to get a proper trail ride on one of these frames before I'd consider buying one, but my initial impression was favourable. I wouldn't like to make a recommendation on something as big as a frame, where personal preference plays such a huge role.

    Wow thanks for the inputs man!

  8. #8
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    I had a Demo for 2 years and wanted a Commencal baaaad for a while.

    Then I test rode one and didn't like it. The biggest issue for me was build - the thing had an old 8" 888 so the front end was WAY too high. It also had really narrow bars, so pretty much opposite rider position that I'm used to (and that's enough to make or break a bike IMO). The one thing concrete to the frame was the pedal kickback was pretty bad all in all, and it only gets worse with a smaller ring. Those 2 things steered me away, but I'm sure with a good build and some adjustment time the cornering would pay off. Keep in mind the geo is much different than the Demo - tall, long CS, steep HT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ojai Bicyclist
    I had a Demo for 2 years and wanted a Commencal baaaad for a while.

    Then I test rode one and didn't like it. The biggest issue for me was build - the thing had an old 8" 888 so the front end was WAY too high. It also had really narrow bars, so pretty much opposite rider position that I'm used to (and that's enough to make or break a bike IMO). The one thing concrete to the frame was the pedal kickback was pretty bad all in all, and it only gets worse with a smaller ring. Those 2 things steered me away, but I'm sure with a good build and some adjustment time the cornering would pay off. Keep in mind the geo is much different than the Demo - tall, long CS, steep HT.
    Thats what Im worry a bit, pedal kick back.As for geo its not like you've described.Actually the Commencal as a shorter wheelbase/chainstay, exact same HA and a slightly longer top tube.One of the thing I hate about my Demo is the top tube being so short.

    There isnt any Commencal owner in love with their rig on this forum? So far nobody seems to thing this is a great bike.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Sweetie, would you mind putting in your sig that you're a "Chumba Sponsored Rider" because first you peddled Ibex, now you have Chumba sponsorship and the moment they offered it, you started peddling their products, even before you got your frame.
    x2..

  11. #11
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    The chainstay is longer, and the "feel" of the bike due to balance (since TT measurements are BS anyways) is more of an upright, planted on the front feel.

    I would love to spend more time on one, but if I were to go for a single pivot design I would get a Morewood. Better customer service, adjustable geo beyond HA, and simpler with less weird BB / chainline issues.

  12. #12
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    i think you will feel the difference very fast......

    1) this is not a plow bike like the Demo

    2) Edited I was thinking of another bike (GT DHi Factory)

    3)demo's stiffness in your rear end will make the commical feel like a noodle

    4) braking through bumps, rockgardens and such will be a whole, new, bumpier rode for you

    5) price...that bike is way overpriced and over hyped
    Last edited by SHIVER ME TIMBERS; 09-01-2008 at 11:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    2) it is not as strong as the demo (local rider testing it had 4 cracks in it) I question the durability big time
    I'm not saying that SMT is lying here but it seems that every time someone is interested in a single pivot people on here harp on it big time.. and it seems like they always talk about how much the frames crack.. which i find hard to believe.


    i'm sure it'd be a fun bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Sweetie, would you mind putting in your sig that you're a "Chumba Sponsored Rider" because first you peddled Ibex, now you have Chumba sponsorship and the moment they offered it, you started peddling their products, even before you got your frame.
    who cares? at least he is loyal to his sponsors. i thought that is how it's supposed to work, otherwise what's the point.

    who sponsors your riding again?

  15. #15
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    Yeah, but loyalty doesn't equal pushing your brand always on an internet forum. It means being reasonable about the bike's/gear's/parts' good qualities and helping people out.

    Sponsors are pretty much a joke unless you're on a full ride. When I was racing Beginner class I was "sponsored" via our team w/ a few companies. They just mark stuff down a bit. Doesn't say anything about riding ability 50% of the time (not saying the OP is a bad rider, just saying sponsorship doesn't mean he is).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ojai Bicyclist
    Yeah, but loyalty doesn't equal pushing your brand always on an internet forum. It means being reasonable about the bike's/gear's/parts' good qualities and helping people out.

    Sponsors are pretty much a joke unless you're on a full ride. When I was racing Beginner class I was "sponsored" via our team w/ a few companies. They just mark stuff down a bit. Doesn't say anything about riding ability 50% of the time (not saying the OP is a bad rider, just saying sponsorship doesn't mean he is).
    They weren't referencing the OP and his brand loyalties.
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  17. #17
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    You know what I mean...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    who cares? at least he is loyal to his sponsors. i thought that is how it's supposed to work, otherwise what's the point.

    who sponsors your riding again?
    No, this is a consumer review forum, that's the point. This is against the clearly stated rules of the forum for him to peddle so blatantly and just because he put the name in his sig like he did Ibex doesn't change things. Now he must clearly state he's sponsored.

    Since this is a consumer review forum, not an ad forum for manufacturers and other industry parties, the field must be kept even. Percussive started going into threads and began recommending Chumbas before he even rode one!

    And I sponsor my own riding, that's why I'm on a 2006 bike that has since been redesigned, with shitty old carry over components. Hell, I'm still using a creaky old m952 XTR crank where the XT spider on it creaks every time I hit the pedals. Most of the rest that went on my bike is used (from the classifieds) or blowout stuff.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_daugherty
    I'm not saying that SMT is lying here but it seems that every time someone is interested in a single pivot people on here harp on it big time.. and it seems like they always talk about how much the frames crack.. which i find hard to believe.i'm sure it'd be a fun bike.
    honestly that was a great opinion......demos are stiffer then a single pivot.....they are pretty much stiffer then 90% of the bikes out there......

    edited.

    I don't like single pivots but they are way easier to pump then other suspension designs


    just speaking facts and personal preference
    Last edited by SHIVER ME TIMBERS; 09-01-2008 at 11:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    honestly that was a great opinion......demos are stiffer then a single pivot.....they are pretty much stiffer then 90% of the bikes out there......

    ask DHJames.... he saw the bike first hand....the bike was beat to shiat after 4 months....had some cracks in a few places...

    I don't like single pivots but they are way easier to pump then other suspension designs


    just speaking facts and personal preference
    I have to ask if you or anyone you've known anyone what has tested out the VST design from Sinister. Or for that matter if anyone knows about this? More points of breakage possible, yes I realize, but they look insane.
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    Well, that basic linkage design did well as the Giant VT, and where I'm at, many are on those Commencal and Cube linkage bikes and doing well with them. It almost seems like they are the bike of choice out here.

    Edit:
    My mistake, thought it was one of their other designs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrix
    I have to ask if you or anyone you've known anyone what has tested out the VST design from Sinister. Or for that matter if anyone knows about this? More points of breakage possible, yes I realize, but they look insane.
    Didn't that design get discontinued?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ojai Bicyclist
    Didn't that design get discontinued?
    No idea, saw a video posted a little bit ago. Someone said something about legal patent issues or something. The design looked awesome.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrix
    I have to ask if you or anyone you've known anyone what has tested out the VST design from Sinister. Or for that matter if anyone knows about this? More points of breakage possible, yes I realize, but they look insane.
    no one I know has rode that,....design looks interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    honestly that was a great opinion......demos are stiffer then a single pivot.....they are pretty much stiffer then 90% of the bikes out there......

    the bike was beat to shiat after 4 months....had some cracks in a few places...

    I don't like single pivots but they are way easier to pump then other suspension designs


    just speaking facts and personal preference
    yeah totally, i just have been seeing a trend on mtb forums about people saying frames crack all over the place.. when probably 99.99% of them aren't..

    your comment just made me think about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_daugherty
    I'm not saying that SMT is lying here but it seems that every time someone is interested in a single pivot people on here harp on it big time.. and it seems like they always talk about how much the frames crack.. which i find hard to believe.
    .
    my bad and I edited my post I was thinking the GT DHi ...my bad
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  27. #27
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    Frank has had the VST thing put on hold for a while. He's a busy busy dude. He wants it perfected before he starts producing bikes with it.

    I wouldn't worry about it breaking if it's a Frank bike....

    I was not real stoked on the older Commencals but I could see the back end of the new one being kinda flexy. Flex isn't always a bad thing though. I would just be kinda sketched out buying a frame from a small independent company from the middle of nowhere in France....with my Sinisters if something goes wrong I call up the guy who made them personally, and fortunately hardly anything ever does. Nothing catastrophic at least, just hardware issues.

    I still think the M1 was one of the best DH bikes ever made. Someone needs to just rebadge it, make a replaceable derailleur hanger, 12mm thru axle, and have it not friggin' break if you look at it wrong....
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  28. #28
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    I hardly think Commencal is one of those brands "out of the middle of nowhere". It's just that they are foreign to you. Like I said, I see Commencal, Cube, and a host of other brands out here more than Specialized.

    On top of that, didn't Commencal come out of the collapse of Sunn to begin with? If so, they are going back further than many of us have been in the sport.

    Edit: Confirmed, their lineage is from Sunn:

    http://www.commencal.co.uk/history/index.html

    And if I'm not mistaken, they're not French. Might want to go over history and geography about that.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    a small independent company from the middle of nowhere in France
    Technically, Andorran. But I see what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rb
    Technically, Andorran. But I see what you're saying.
    Yep, they're somewhere out in Europe, they sort of speak French or Spanish, come from a place he's never heard of, so they must be French as a 50-50 shot.

  31. #31
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    Was unaware they were derived from Sunn. If they speak French then I consider them French. They're foreign enough I would be concerned about support availability, and with good reason. I have had a couple friends go through NIGHTMARES with them trying to get parts or frames imported or even shipped out. Took months...

    If I remember reading correctly, they really aren't near any major metro areas in Andorra or France, so that probably just adds to any complications.

    Not saying the current bikes aren't nice and all, but just not worth it if you're stateside when there are similar alternatives IMO...
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  32. #32
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    They speak Creole-French in Haiti. Are they French?

    And as far as being near metro areas, that's a joke. Andorra is a provisional EU member. They don't have full EU membership, but they have certain rights as such. Since there is a large unified economy in Europe under the EU treaty, most any part of the EU is not too far from any major city. In contrast, you can have places in Pa much further away from a major city, within its own state, than you can in the EU.

    But on that side, what difference does it make if there aren't major cities? Do you need to take a bus or a mudskipper there (landlocked country anyhow). So long as deliveries are able to get in or out (and they do, considering Andorra has partner businesses in France and Spain), then I don't see the big deal.

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    Yup.

    It makes a difference because they do have shipping/delivery problems. And they're dealing with international shipping. As far as I'm aware their US distributor carries very little stock and doesn't help much. That is all.
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    I dunno, all of the companies importing from Taiwan and China seem to be dealing with international shipping well.

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    now Im completely confused and not so sure anymore.Anyone out there who jumped from a 4 bar to a Commencal?

  36. #36
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    last i check commencal was distributed in the US by BTI - that means any shop that has a BTI account can get the bike and any issues with the bike would be dealt w/ at an LBS rather then through commencal. so CS is going to be as good as the LBS you work with.

    also make sure to check the spec list that comes w/ the BTI distributed bike, it might be very different than was is on commencal's website.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam
    last i check commencal was distributed in the US by BTI - that means any shop that has a BTI account can get the bike and any issues with the bike would be dealt w/ at an LBS rather then through commencal. so CS is going to be as good as the LBS you work with.

    also make sure to check the spec list that comes w/ the BTI distributed bike, it might be very different than was is on commencal's website.

    I had zero issues getting parts even before BTI took over their distribution, but I was dealing directly with commencal.. took 2 weeks or less to get anything from there..

    that being said I love my Mini-DH,suspension feels super-active and very easy to put it where you want it..
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam
    last i check commencal was distributed in the US by BTI - that means any shop that has a BTI account can get the bike and any issues with the bike would be dealt w/ at an LBS rather then through commencal. so CS is going to be as good as the LBS you work with.
    Correct you are, sir. But just to clarify...

    It's NOT every LBS with a BTI account. They have to be an "Authorized" dealer -- i.e. make a minimum commitment (I believe it's 5 frames) -- in order to "carry" the brand. While any shop with a BTI account can order you a replacement derailleur hanger, not every shop is going to be able to provide end-user support for more catastrophic problems (i.e. cracked frame). Authorized Dealers will be listed on www.commencal.com

    Just a friendly heads up.

    I won't voice my opinion on this FSR vs. linkage-driven-single-pivot debate.

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