glory and turner axle path i need you help please!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    glory and turner axle path i need you help please!

    so i have this conflict with a turner dhr (the round tube one) and my current glory
    i really like my glory for its stabilty and how it jus plows through things but it just lacks in the agility, nimble, and abilty to hold speed deparments. so my solution was a turner dhr. upon futher research i find that the turners axle path is really "archish" making the wheel base smaller when compressed adding to its nimbleness but also im assuming will add to it getting "hung up" and not carrying speed well through the rough. my question is what will i really feel if i make the switch? will i really i notice square edge hits that much more? its hard to translate axle path jumble to real life.
    another question, what do people really have for bottom bracket heights on their dhr's?
    ps i know these threads are stupid, i spend a lot of time on my bike and dont wanna make the wrong decsion. thanks everyone

  2. #2
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    oo yeah, i ride/race on the east, the rough stuff is common

  3. #3
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    Take up another sport that fits your needs.
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  4. #4
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    I sold my DHR and went to an M3. Hanging up on any tiny little square edged hit is a thing of the past now. They're nimble, and they're cool in smooth corners, but they don't like being really ridden like a DH bike on super messy stuff. I could not believe how much speed the DHR robs you of when you're trying to go fast on anything rough. The DHR was a cool bike for racing stuff like Fontana and some of the smoother/faster Socal trails. Excellent geometry for the most part too.

    Smooth tight berms are the only places I notice the DHR is faster than the M3, and sprinting up to speed on smooth ground, and it's a pretty marginal difference. Choppy corners, steeps, major rock sections, little rock sections, and pedaling up over edges and roots the M3 was FAR faster.

    And before SMT chimes in, it has NOTHING to do with it being a single pivot (just a really low pivot that's way too progressive). If I were going to get another single pivot it'd be an Orange 224 or a Sinister F-bomb.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlproject7
    so i have this conflict with a turner dhr (the round tube one) and my current glory
    i really like my glory for its stabilty and how it jus plows through things but it just lacks in the agility, nimble, and abilty to hold speed deparments. so my solution was a turner dhr. upon futher research i find that the turners axle path is really "archish" making the wheel base smaller when compressed adding to its nimbleness but also im assuming will add to it getting "hung up" and not carrying speed well through the rough. my question is what will i really feel if i make the switch? will i really i notice square edge hits that much more? its hard to translate axle path jumble to real life.
    another question, what do people really have for bottom bracket heights on their dhr's?
    ps i know these threads are stupid, i spend a lot of time on my bike and dont wanna make the wrong decsion. thanks everyone

    first off I feel the old DHR"s are harsher through rock gardens then the glory's but maybe the pros outweigh the cons (have not rode the DW link DHR's)

    secondly but most important test ride one before you drop the cash....some people love the DHR's and others don't like them.....which are you??? it would be terrible if you bought one and didn't like it (waste a lot of money) so make sure you test ride one
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    I sold my DHR and went to an M3. Hanging up on any tiny little square edged hit is a thing of the past now. They're nimble, and they're cool in smooth corners, but they don't like being really ridden like a DH bike on super messy stuff. I could not believe how much speed the DHR robs you of when you're trying to go fast on anything rough. The DHR was a cool bike for racing stuff like Fontana and some of the smoother/faster Socal trails. Excellent geometry for the most part too.

    Smooth tight berms are the only places I notice the DHR is faster than the M3, and sprinting up to speed on smooth ground, and it's a pretty marginal difference. Choppy corners, steeps, major rock sections, little rock sections, and pedaling up over edges and roots the M3 was FAR faster.

    And before SMT chimes in, it has NOTHING to do with it being a single pivot (just a really low pivot that's way too progressive). If I were going to get another single pivot it'd be an Orange 224 or a Sinister F-bomb.
    first off thanks that is a quality response you dont see to often. its really that over progresive? i dont really understand the low pivot/high pivot thing but have heard enough about the subject to know its very real. i would imagine that if it were run soft and linear as possible it would be plush enough to not be a mess over the small square stuff, but thats just a theory. and yeah i ride stuff nothing like fontana, or at least not often... also test ride is not an option.
    test ride is not an option.

  7. #7
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    and yeah im refering to one of the old single pivot round tube dhr's. and yes it would be terrible if i didnt like it.

  8. #8
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    If you really want something that will fly through the rough you should test ride a Canfield jedi

  9. #9
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    Yeah the low pivot makes the wheel yank forwards when it hits a tall edge, which is basically the opposite of what it wants to do (move backwards). They make it progressive like that so you don't bottom the hell out on small stuff.

    I'm not sure what the suspension dynamics are like on the Glory's. I've heard they're supposed to be pretty neutral though.
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  10. #10
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    thanks for the info. looks like im scrapping the turner idea.

  11. #11
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    i guess my question really now is how bad is this slowing in rough with the turner? it sounds like its gonna be pretty noticable coming from the glory

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystagg
    If you really want something that will fly through the rough you should test ride a Canfield jedi
    This man knows what he is talking about.

    It is exactly what you are looking for. it takes the comprimises you had on the other two bikes and just destroys them.

    first off it has the most rearward travel that i know of out on the market. it eats up everything in its path. Square hits feel like little bumps and you rarely lose speed.

    It has a fairly short wheelbase (because it extends out with all the rearward travel) so it is extremely nimble. it corners like crazy. It also lengthens out when you are flying through the big stuff as you use more and more travel. also as you hit a big drop it will lengthen out to make for a smooth landing as it compresses.

    No brake jack like single pivots suffer from

    built in brake squat. pretty much does all the work for you. when you get to a really steep section and you grab some brake it lowers the rear end and gets you in a perfect position for riding it.

    almost zero chain growth. with the idler pulley it keeps the chain from moving during the really bumpy sections. you won't feel your feet being moved back and forth alot.

    ok their is my plug for canfield, im just super stoked on mine right now. entering in my first race tomorrow and my bike tore the coarse up yesterday in practice.

    now for your original question.

    do the bikes weigh the same? I find nimbleness is usually associated with weight. maybe instead of dropping more money on a different bike you could upgrade yours and drop a few pounds thus making it more nimble.

    all i know is my dad went from having a 2 single pivots to having to VP bikes and now he can't ride his old single pivots. It is a noticable change in traction.

    on the bright side im sure you could resale either of your choices for a decent amount and try something else, that is half the fun of biking right? building and trying new bikes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    This man knows what he is talking about.

    It is exactly what you are looking for. it takes the comprimises you had on the other two bikes and just destroys them.

    first off it has the most rearward travel that i know of out on the market. it eats up everything in its path. Square hits feel like little bumps and you rarely lose speed.

    It has a fairly short wheelbase (because it extends out with all the rearward travel) so it is extremely nimble. it corners like crazy. It also lengthens out when you are flying through the big stuff as you use more and more travel. also as you hit a big drop it will lengthen out to make for a smooth landing as it compresses.

    No brake jack like single pivots suffer from

    built in brake squat. pretty much does all the work for you. when you get to a really steep section and you grab some brake it lowers the rear end and gets you in a perfect position for riding it.

    almost zero chain growth. with the idler pulley it keeps the chain from moving during the really bumpy sections. you won't feel your feet being moved back and forth alot.

    ok their is my plug for canfield, im just super stoked on mine right now. entering in my first race tomorrow and my bike tore the coarse up yesterday in practice.

    now for your original question.

    do the bikes weigh the same? I find nimbleness is usually associated with weight. maybe instead of dropping more money on a different bike you could upgrade yours and drop a few pounds thus making it more nimble.

    all i know is my dad went from having a 2 single pivots to having to VP bikes and now he can't ride his old single pivots. It is a noticable change in traction.

    on the bright side im sure you could resale either of your choices for a decent amount and try something else, that is half the fun of biking right? building and trying new bikes.
    yeah thats intresting about the canfield, have allways heard good things about them, not really an option though. good luck on your race... and no changing and trying new bikes is not fun to me. i like riding my bike. and no the glory is a pig. which im sure effects its agility. i might just go with some new wheels instead (im on krutches for a while)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlproject7
    yeah thats intresting about the canfield, have allways heard good things about them, not really an option though. good luck on your race... and no changing and trying new bikes is not fun to me. i like riding my bike. and no the glory is a pig. which im sure effects its agility. i might just go with some new wheels instead (im on krutches for a while)
    don't get me wrong, i love riding my bike as well. i guess i enjoy trying new things. i really doubt i will be trading out my jedi any time soon.

    i think new wheels and dropping a few pounds would be a better option. especially if you don't like trying new bikes.

    I don't know if you are interested but maybe you could post up a pic and specs for your glory and people here could help with ideas on how to make it lighter, more agile.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlproject7
    so i have this conflict with a turner dhr (the round tube one) and my current glory
    i really like my glory for its stabilty and how it jus plows through things but it just lacks in the agility, nimble, and abilty to hold speed deparments. so my solution was a turner dhr. upon futher research i find that the turners axle path is really "archish" making the wheel base smaller when compressed adding to its nimbleness but also im assuming will add to it getting "hung up" and not carrying speed well through the rough. my question is what will i really feel if i make the switch? will i really i notice square edge hits that much more? its hard to translate axle path jumble to real life.
    another question, what do people really have for bottom bracket heights on their dhr's?
    ps i know these threads are stupid, i spend a lot of time on my bike and dont wanna make the wrong decsion. thanks everyone
    you're thinking too hard... just go ride... the wheelbase of the DHR actually increases through the travel...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    you're thinking too hard... just go ride... the wheelbase of the DHR actually increases through the travel...
    For the first 1/3 of the travel, if that. Then it yanks forward.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    For the first 1/3 of the travel, if that. Then it yanks forward.
    oooo... i see it now... thanks for clarifying, though shouldnt it still be longer than when it started though?

  18. #18
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    I'd say that bump absorption has 95% to do with the Giant running less compression damping and 5% with the "more rearward path". In fact, the Giant's axle path is also an arc, just a different arc than the turner. Older designs like the turner need a bit more compression damping, although with only one front chainring it's not as bad as when the chainline has to switch between 3 rings, and there are some shocks that can go a long ways to improving the high speed bump characteristics.
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  19. #19
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    mrpercussive
    you're thinking too hard... just go ride... the wheelbase of the DHR actually increases through the travel
    man i wish. 11 days outta surgery.. 2 and half months to go
    Jayem you sound smart. can you help me out a little. i guess i kinda want to like the turner, but if you could answer some of my previous questions i will give you my first born

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlproject7
    so i have this conflict with a turner dhr (the round tube one) and my current glory
    i really like my glory for its stabilty and how it jus plows through things but it just lacks in the agility, nimble, and abilty to hold speed deparments. so my solution was a turner dhr. upon futher research i find that the turners axle path is really "archish" making the wheel base smaller when compressed adding to its nimbleness but also im assuming will add to it getting "hung up" and not carrying speed well through the rough. my question is what will i really feel if i make the switch? will i really i notice square edge hits that much more? its hard to translate axle path jumble to real life.
    another question, what do people really have for bottom bracket heights on their dhr's?
    ps i know these threads are stupid, i spend a lot of time on my bike and dont wanna make the wrong decsion. thanks everyone
    It has a lot to do with technique and shock settings too... and more I don't know about I'm sure. In general though, a rearward axlepath will take square edged hits with less loss of momentum than an axlepath with less rearward travel. I have an Uzzi vpx and it has a decent amount of rearward travel, but if the bumps are spaced right and I'm just plowing through, it will sometimes get hung up too... there's one section in Keystone that just kills my speed.... the shock is just set up wrong for those particular bumps. If I recognize that I'm about to go over a section of trail with potential hang-ups, you can adjust your line or technique accordingly.

    I think suspension type is an issue, but not really a priority unless you have a really strong personal preference one way or another.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    I think suspension type is an issue, but not really a priority unless you have a really strong personal preference one way or another.
    Exactly otherwise every thing would be the same as.

    Nothing is perfect for every one this is why we are fortunate to have options. Ride what works for you.
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  22. #22
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    yeah im not exactly sure what that is, thats really the problem here

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlproject7
    yeah im not exactly sure what that is, thats really the problem here
    Figure out witch one you are and do test rides.

    Oh wait this is DH their are no test rides unless you have friends with.
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  24. #24
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    Best advice is to ride one ON DIRT. Like most bikes that feel awesome in the parking lot, they can feel sketchy as hell on the snotty stuff. The more "nimble" a bike feels when riding around flat, the more jumpy and bouncy it is on the jagged fast stuff. My M3 feels like butt in a parking lot compared to the DHR, but get them going on the same rock section and rutted corners and braking bumps and awkward lips and it just loses ZERO speed where the DHR feels like it wants to come to a stop and is going to rip the swingarm off on anything taller than the height of the tire.

    They work for some people if you like jumping off of every little thing though. Anything bad I can say about them is a result of them not matching real well with the way I ride. There are a lot of riders who probably could not figure out how to flow my M3 well at all too. Only way to tell is to get it on dirt. You might like it, but you might not.
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  25. #25
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    soo true about the tests. but because of my krutches and now dh bikes for a while, it sounds much safer to stay with what i got

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