full suspension DOC???- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    full suspension DOC???

    i think it is great that Evil got their sheezy together and came out with a bike that can handle agro riding with a focus on getting good top tube length for rough trail riding and keeping the seat tube short enough to be out of the way for bombing down hill, but just long enough to allow a long seatpost for seated pedaling up hill. are there any full suspenson bikes that are designed around that idea. i would love to see a bike with 4 to 6 inches of travel, a long-ish top tube, and a short seat tube (around 16 inches). an fat (30.0 or bigger) uninterupted seat tube that allows for a long seatpost would be part of this ideal design, however i do know that telescoping seat posts are an option.

    i would also like to see a frame like this that can handle wide tires and long travel (single crown) forks, and with a slack dh/fr geometry. maybe something like a turner rail crossed with a transition preston. low, slack and burly. is there a bike like this that i am not aware of? do any of you have similar desires for such a bike, or am i freaking nuts?

  2. #2
    hands up who wants to die
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    My Blur 4X fits most of your requirements. I was going to buy an Evil before I decided to go for a FS.

    -rob in Ny

  3. #3
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    Well my AC fits the bill except for the lack of having an uninterrupted seatpost but my Thomson (cut down a bit) is long enough that I can raise it up all the way and climb fine or lower it down all the way and descend perfectly well also. I think most santa cruz's would work for what you're looking for as well.
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by COmtbiker12
    Well my AC fits the bill except for the lack of having an uninterrupted seatpost but my Thomson (cut down a bit) is long enough that I can raise it up all the way and climb fine or lower it down all the way and descend perfectly well also. I think most santa cruz's would work for what you're looking for as well.
    heckler, stinky, chaparral, reign. i could go on, but why? mandown why not do a little research on say the internet?
    Divide Bike Bags

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    heckler, stinky, chaparral, reign. i could go on, but why? mandown why not do a little research on say the internet?
    what a brilliant freaking idea! i never thought to use the search function, both in the forum and on the whole wide web. and certainly not in a wonderful land called "mountain bike review" where they have reviews of all kinds of different bikes.

    not sure about the heckler, but the stinky and the chap design start to get too tall in the seat post department when the top tube gets long enough for me (i am 6'1"). i had a stinky and it was good. the chap is the same basic design. i want a stinky, but one that has the geometry of a large with the seat tube length of a small. i am riding a bb7 now and it is great. the problem is, it is overkill for the trails i ride. i have the small size and it feels right. the blur 4X does seem to be a nice option. i will look into that more.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandown
    what a brilliant freaking idea! i never thought to use the search function, both in the forum and on the whole wide web. and certainly not in a wonderful land called "mountain bike review" where they have reviews of all kinds of different bikes.

    not sure about the heckler, but the stinky and the chap design start to get too tall in the seat post department when the top tube gets long enough for me (i am 6'1"). i had a stinky and it was good. the chap is the same basic design. i want a stinky, but one that has the geometry of a large with the seat tube length of a small. i am riding a bb7 now and it is great. the problem is, it is overkill for the trails i ride. i have the small size and it feels right. the blur 4X does seem to be a nice option. i will look into that more.
    oh relax. always remember two things about dream4est:
    1. im your buddy
    2. never take anything i post too seriously. im usually talking ace ventura style.
    Divide Bike Bags

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    oh relax. always remember two things about dream4est:
    1. im your buddy
    2. never take anything i post too seriously. im usually talking ace ventura style.
    i understand. there are many tards in this pool that have not quite figured it out yet (if i see one more thread on "do people dh hardtails?" i will scream).

    ...and now back to the topic.

    oh yeah, and as for the Giant AC, they make my skin crawl. it is probably like f'n a fat grrrl (it feels good and is lotsa fun, but you would hate for your friends to see you on one).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandown
    ...and now back to the topic.
    what about the IH line? its designed by DW, same dude that designs/is EVIL bikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslingger
    no doubt you must have majored in english or something rad!!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    what about the IH line? its designed by DW, same dude that designs/is EVIL bikes.
    not a bad call. i think i like the santa cruz a bit better. the 17" for each (comparing the 7.7 and blur 4X) have pretty similar geometry but the santa cruz has

    1 - shorter rear travel. i think the IH will be overkill for my riding needs.
    2 - lower bb - i like the handling of the low bb better, and i don't have clearance issues here in SoCal
    3 - the TT and CS lenghts are a bit longer. i think with similar length forks, the SC will have a longer wheel base for a touch more stability.
    4 - i am thinking along the lines of a 6" single crown fork with adjustable travel (pike or flick) in which case the SC seems to have a more slack head angle, which is something i am looking for.
    5 - aesthetics - i like the SC's looks better than the IH. just my taste. i think it looks way sexy in white.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandown
    i understand. there are many tards in this pool that have not quite figured it out yet (if i see one more thread on "do people dh hardtails?" i will scream).

    ...and now back to the topic.

    oh yeah, and as for the Giant AC, they make my skin crawl. it is probably like f'n a fat grrrl (it feels good and is lotsa fun, but you would hate for your friends to see you on one).
    Psh whatever man... its the not superduper attractive bikes that know how to ride best.
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    what about the IH line? its designed by DW, same dude that designs/is EVIL bikes.
    zedro did you delete my post-less shrine to my 5000post achievement?
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  12. #12
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    The Ventana X5 is the only one I can think of that comes close to meeting your travel, geometry, TT to ST length and durability. It is also very very stiff for a suspension frame.

    The obvious problem you have is finding a 16" ST with a 24" TT. Of course why someone 6'1" tall needs a 16" ST can only be answered by you. However, Ventana does offer custom geometry if you are willing to pay.
    Can't keep track anymore - Giant, Santa Cruz, Pivot, Yeti, Norco, Salsa, Intense - if it rolls on dirt I like it :thumbsup:

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandown
    not a bad call. i think i like the santa cruz a bit better. the 17" for each (comparing the 7.7 and blur 4X) have pretty similar geometry but the santa cruz has
    I don't think you're comparing the right bikes. The 7.7 is comperable to the Bullit or VP-Free, since it gets 2 more inches of travel than the Blur 4x. The Iron Horse equivalent of the Blur 4x is the MkIII, which gets equal travel. I believe some of the Iron Horse team was racing the MkIII in 4x competition, actually.

    That addresses some of your concerns about travel, BB height, and though I haven't compared them, I'm sure the TT is longer on the MkIII than on the 7.7.

    The MkIII comes stock with a 6" travel adjustable fork, which is what you were looking to run.

    And frankly, I think the MkIII is a very nice looking bike, but that's just my opinion

  14. #14
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    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    The obvious problem you have is finding a 16" ST with a 24" TT. Of course why someone 6'1" tall needs a 16" ST can only be answered by you. However, Ventana does offer custom geometry if you are willing to pay.
    scott, thanks for seeing the issue. to answer the "why" - i want a bike that is long enough to be stable and comfortable on bumby downhill stretches and i am 6'1" so i want the 24" TT. i also like low bikes. i have been riding my small BB7 for a while now. i also have been riding a 13" urban frame for a while too. back when i had and 18" stinky it felt ok in the length department, but a bit tall in the seat tube department. i like to slam the seatpost down all the way for descending and jumping and not feel the saddle between my legs. i think that shaving 2" off the ST would probably get me where i want.

    i'll give the ventana a look.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by COmtbiker12
    zedro did you delete my post-less shrine to my 5000post achievement?
    yes, and i believe in did the same for your 4000, 3000 and 2000 shrines.....you message board litterbug
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslingger
    no doubt you must have majored in english or something rad!!!

  16. #16
    Uhhhhh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    yes, and i believe in did the same for your 4000, 3000 and 2000 shrines.....you message board litterbug
    Better you than Gregg deleting my 'ode to gonzostrike.
    Fayetteville, AR and N.W.A RePrEsEnT

  17. #17
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    How about a Turner Rail (if you can find one), a Planet-X Split-tail (when it comes out), or maybe an Arrow DS3

  18. #18
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    thought about those

    Quote Originally Posted by BillT
    How about a Turner Rail (if you can find one), a Planet-X Split-tail (when it comes out), or maybe an Arrow DS3
    i have thought about those. but i am looking for a bike with more "all around" capability, which is why i want a 16" uninterupted ST. my hardtail has a 16" ST and it is very comfortable for me to slam the seat down and ride the way i feel comfortable riding, and it has enough length for me to run a 410 seat post so i can get full leg extension while seated if i raise the seat all the way up. the rail and the split tail don't have that option. the ds3 has been considered before, however the ST length is a bit short.

    the thing that catches my eye with the santa cruz is the ST length is the shortest relative to the TT length of any of the bikes mentioned. it also has the slackest head angle of the bunch. it can handle a 6" single crown. it has a relatively short travel back end for a freeride bike. it has some "huckable" durability to it. not that i huck much, but i do tend to crash, and i like thinking my bike has more durability than i need.

    i am not sure what the tire clearance is, but it is probably good enough. i am also not sure if i can run a front derail with it, but i guess it is time to email santa cruz and find out.

    i think i have convinced myself on the Blur 4X. anybody with saddle time on it have any specific commentary on this bike?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillT
    How about a Turner Rail (if you can find one), a Planet-X Split-tail (when it comes out), or maybe an Arrow DS3
    Shame on me for not thinking of the Arrow DS3. I owned one of those for a year or so. The DS3 has a very short ST and a 23.5" TT. It's max travel is 4.5", but I used to DH mine at Deer Valley with a 5" fork. The one problem I see with it is that if you run a 26" rear wheel you are limited to a 2.1 or maybe a Maxxis 2.3 tire in the 4.5" travel setting. Luckily Arrow makes an awesome 2.1 DH tire that works great on the DS3.
    Can't keep track anymore - Giant, Santa Cruz, Pivot, Yeti, Norco, Salsa, Intense - if it rolls on dirt I like it :thumbsup:

  20. #20
    hands up who wants to die
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    Blur 4X:
    It supposedly fits a "2.5" tire, but mine doesn't have a whole lot of room around the 2.35 Kenda Nevegal that I have on it. However, a 2.35" Kenda Neve is the same as most manufacturers' 2.5".

    It can definitely take a front derailleur.

    I think it's a bit beefier than some of the "trail" bikes that people have been suggesting. It is not a long-travel XC frame.

    I have a Large (Long) and the frame is definitely long & low. I have a 33 1/4" inseam and have plenty of standover room; about 3 inches I think. I love how it rides, but it is my first full suspension frame, so I can't really give you a good comparison. If you have specific ride-quality questions, I can try to answer.

    -rob
    Last edited by rpet; 05-25-2005 at 12:02 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Shame on me for not thinking of the Arrow DS3. I owned one of those for a year or so. The DS3 has a very short ST and a 23.5" TT. It's max travel is 4.5", but I used to DH mine at Deer Valley with a 5" fork. The one problem I see with it is that if you run a 26" rear wheel you are limited to a 2.1 or maybe a Maxxis 2.3 tire in the 4.5" travel setting. Luckily Arrow makes an awesome 2.1 DH tire that works great on the DS3.
    yeah, i talked to you about the arrow frame about a year ago. i ended up getting a screaming deal on my current BB7 w/ an Avy. it was hard to pass on that deal. the arrow is still on my mind. i would run it with a 24" in the rear. what is the tire size limit on a 24"? has arrow upgraded the frame to handle a 6" single crown? that is not a deal breaker, just a question, since most of the adjustable long travel forks i am looking at seem to go up to 6" at full travel. i gotta double check the head angle, but that bike may be in the running.

  22. #22
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    With a 24" rear wheel I think it will fit up to a 3.0. I doubt the construction of the frame has changed over time, so I'd have to talk with Gus about a 6" single crown.
    Can't keep track anymore - Giant, Santa Cruz, Pivot, Yeti, Norco, Salsa, Intense - if it rolls on dirt I like it :thumbsup:

  23. #23
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    Transition

    Transition makes both the Dirtbag and the Preston that you might take a look at too. I've yet to see a Dirtbag, but from what I've seen from the Preston, either bike might fit the bill for you.

  24. #24
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    i like both of those bikes for different reasons. however, the goal i have in mind is a bike with a shorter ST length than most of those suggested here. the arrow is good, but a bit shorter than i want. not "deal breaker" short, but on the shorter side of my wants. the blur 4x is maybe an inch taller than i was hoping for. i can live with that. the other bikes are all nice. however, many of the suggestions were missing the point. SHORT SEAT TUBE + LONG TOP TUBE+SLACK HEAD ANGLE (and moderately jump/huck-able).

    i think the blur 4X has it. now i just have to bring myself with parting with my BB7

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