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  1. #1
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    EX 823 build

    question, what do i need to run a UST wheelset? you need some latex seal, tires and air right? also if were were to get 823s, what size and what spokes would i need, would they need special spokes? if so where can i get them, and same thing goes to nipples.
    can anyone recomend me nipples and spokes for ex 823 rims?
    ANy input is much appreciated.

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    depends on the hub you use. but you will need inserts for the nipples. but if you know what hubs you will be using, i have a spoke calculator and can give you the spoke lengths you would need.
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sflett
    depends on the hub you use. but you will need inserts for the nipples. but if you know what hubs you will be using, i have a spoke calculator and can give you the spoke lengths you would need.
    hadley 32 hole 20mm front and 135mmQR wide rear

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    and i am assuming you want 3x lacing? i am having trouble finding the effective rim diameter (erd) of that rim, but i will post back when i do.
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sflett
    and i am assuming you want 3x lacing? i am having trouble finding the effective rim diameter (erd) of that rim, but i will post back when i do.
    i think 2x is good, isn't that the standard?

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    cool, thanks for the help! and yeah i was planning on DT swiss spokes.... but do they work for UST

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    Quote Originally Posted by freerider167
    cool, thanks for the help! and yeah i was planning on DT swiss spokes.... but do they work for UST
    yes they will work, but you need the nipple inserts for the rim. i am not sure if the rim comes with them or not.
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

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    got it.

    ok.. so the erd is 538mm (according to dt swiss). and assuming you are using dt swiss spokes/nipples with 3x lacing w/ 32 holes, then the measurements are as follows.

    front wheel:
    drive side: 259.36mm = 260mm spokes
    non drive: 258.48mm = 259mm spokes

    rear wheel:
    drive side: 258.13mm = 259mm spokes
    non drive: 259.42mm = 260mm spokes

    (measurements come from quality bicycle produducts online spoke calculator)

    so you should just buy a box of 260 mm spokes, and that would take care of your wheelset.

    heres the disclaimer: i am not very familiar with ust, and am unsure of how the nipple inserts work, and whether or not this would have a different way of measuring as compared to clinchers. so you should get a second opinion. maybe smt built his wheels. i am sure there is someone else on here who also builds their wheels. that will be a sick wheelset. i will eventually do the same, but to hugi fr hubs.
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

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    no 3x is standard. 2x is cool for cross bikes. 4x is just exessive. and radial is more of a light road thing.
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sflett
    yes they will work, but you need the nipple inserts for the rim. i am not sure if the rim comes with them or not.
    new UST mavic rims come with the nipple grommets. They do not come with the special splined tool you are supposed to use to put them in the rim. I built up a UST wheel and just put the grommets 3/4 of the way in by hand; then a drop of blue lock tite on the threads, then tightened them in using some small vice grips. be careful to not set the vice grips too tight, you don't want to crush the grommets! My shop buddies said they looked perfect afterwards.

    Another trick, pre-assemble the nipples and grommets on the spokes & hub, then lace the grommets into the rim. it's a lot faster than assembling each one as you go.

    Mavic suggests using extra-long nippples- regular length tend to get buried inside the UST grommet.

    Building a UST wheel is a little more work but worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freerider167
    i think 2x is good, isn't that the standard?
    i went 3 with the 36 hole
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    [QUOTE=freerider167]question, what do i need to run a UST wheelset? you need some latex seal, tires and air right? .....yep




    also if were were to get 823s, what size and what spokes would i need, would they need special spokes? no special spokes




    if so where can i get them, and same thing goes to nipples.
    can anyone recomend me nipples and spokes for ex 823 rims?
    ANy input is much appreciated...........just use your regular spokes and nipples

    FYI..........between the nipples and the rim is a srew in adapter that holds the Nipple and spoke.......Make sure you Blue Lock tite them......if you don't they will unscrew and be a nightmare
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  13. #13
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    Note that the DT Swiss listing of ERD for 823's is the for the old 3.1 style rim. The new ones are more like 532mm (from what I've heard). 532 is what I'm basing my wheel build on.

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    My wheel build will be the following:

    Deemax Rims (Mavic 823's)
    F Hub: Hadley 20mm
    R Hub: Hadley 135x12mm
    F Spokes: DT Swiss Competition 252mm
    R Spokes: DT Swiss Champion (maybe competition) 252mm
    Nipples: DT Swiss Aluminum 16mm
    3 Cross Pattern for both front and rear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miko
    My wheel build will be the following:

    Deemax Rims (Mavic 823's)
    F Hub: Hadley 20mm
    R Hub: Hadley 135x12mm
    F Spokes: DT Swiss Competition 252mm
    R Spokes: DT Swiss Champion (maybe competition) 252mm
    Nipples: DT Swiss Aluminum 16mm
    3 Cross Pattern for both front and rear.
    beware of using aluminum nipples. the spokes are also an alloy, and using two metals of the same hardness, can cause them to bind and lock together over time. i would recommend brass as i know they are safe. i am not telling you not to use the aluminum, im just saying beware, cuz word on the street.... maybe someone who has some experience with the alloy nipples will chime in and set me straight though.
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

  16. #16
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    I used aluminum nipples last year and the year before with no issues. I used 12mm ones though and stripped a few heads because they barely stick up out of the grommets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miko
    My wheel build will be the following:

    Deemax Rims (Mavic 823's)
    F Hub: Hadley 20mm
    R Hub: Hadley 135x12mm
    F Spokes: DT Swiss Competition 252mm
    R Spokes: DT Swiss Champion (maybe competition) 252mm
    Nipples: DT Swiss Aluminum 16mm
    3 Cross Pattern for both front and rear.
    That's for 36h though right? Freerider167 will need longer than that for his 32h set.
    Numbers for 32h with those hubs on 823's are....

    Front
    256.44 drive
    255.52 non-drive

    Rear
    255.33 drive
    256.73 non-drive

    Tough one, as you would normally just round up, but there's not much available in 257 and if you round down you run into the same thing with 255's (unless you have some cut). If you use 16mm DT nipples (threaded all the way through, unlike Wheelsmith 16mm which have about the same amount of threading as a 12mm nipple) then you can go shorter on the spokes. In that case you could probably get away with 254/256. Other options....You could do all 256, but you'll have to correct the dish a lot more. Or you can do 256/258 but you run the risk of running out of threads on the 258 since you'd be rounding up so much.

    Larry
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sflett
    the spokes are also an alloy
    Spokes are made of steel, not aluminum.
    "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity". - Dave Barry

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    32 holes.

    DT gives the precise spoke length and a rounded length. I'm assuming the rounded length takes into account the nipple length since it's the only measure that changed when I changed the nipples. The rounded lengths were 252 and 253 so I'm picking 252mm.

  20. #20
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    hey freerider or whatever....

    no offense, but you obviously dont sound like you could build a wheel, so just order the rims and hubs (make sure the holes match) and have the online store or LBS build it for you. They will calculate everything.

    No special stuff is needed, let them do the work.

    Dont buy into the lie that you have to use latex liquid. If you have a UST rim and UST tire, that is all you need. However, if you are running a non-UST tire or have a puncture in one, you need the liquid

    hope that helps
    170mm profile crankset, silver king headset barely used, new blackspire chainguide, old version hope mini brakes---- all for sale at i-wanna-get-rid-of-it prices. I'm gone all of july after the 10th, other than that PM me if interested.

  21. #21
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    I have broken a lot of aluminum nipples in BMX. Went back to Brass and wow. No more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by j6105
    Dont buy into the lie that you have to use latex liquid. If you have a UST rim and UST tire, that is all you need.
    No offense j6105, but that is really bad advice. I've been running Mavic D3.1s (now called EX 823) with Hutchison Octopus tubeless tires on my Giant AC1 for 3 years. Anyone who rides a tubeless tire in the Northwest will find themselve sitting on a flat tire in a very short time. Blackberry thorns will easily puncture your tubeless tire.

    I got tired of flats, so now I put Stan's Notube in my tubeless tires, and they will easily last 2 months before I have to give them a little extra air. I've got holes all over my Hutchisons now and you can see the wet spots from the Stan's leaking through, but they never lose air pressure. I haven't had a flat tire in well over 2 years thanks to Stan's.

    btw, I love my Mavic D3.1s and the tubeless tire setup. Easy to take care of and bomb proof.
    Last edited by Big B; 02-27-2006 at 09:16 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by j6105

    Dont buy into the lie that you have to use latex liquid. If you have a UST rim and UST tire, that is all you need. However, if you are running a non-UST tire or have a puncture in one, you need the liquid

    hope that helps
    you can run it without the liguid, but that would be stupid.....it is nice finishing a ride and seeing little dot holes where the stans sealed a puncture....happens more than you think...and it is nice to have a hard inflated tire instead of pushing a flat tire bike
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    So true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big B
    No offense j6105, but that is really bad advice. I've been running Mavic D3.1s (now called EX 823) with Hutchison Octopus tubeless tires on my Giant AC1 for 3 years. Anyone who rides a tubeless tire in the Northwest will find themselve sitting on a flat tire in a very short time. Blackberry thorns will easily puncture your tubeless tire.

    I got tired of flats, so now I put Stan's Notube in my tubeless tires, and they will easily last 2 months before I have to give them a little extra air. I've got holes all over my Hutchisons now and you can see the wet spots from the Stan's leaking through, but they never lose air pressure. I haven't had a flat tire in well over 2 years thanks to Stan's.

    btw, I love my Mavic D3.1s and the tubeless tire setup. Easy to take care of and bomb proof.
    While I'm sure there are some places, somewhere, that allow a rider to use UST tires without sealant, I haven't ridden on them. Obviously here in west Texas it's an absolute, but other less hostile locations still have their issues. I've had several small rock pokes that were even sealed with Stan's. As long as the hole isn't a tear or rip or just too darned big, Stan's will plug some amazingly large punctures.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    . As long as the hole isn't a tear or rip or just too darned big, Stan's will plug some amazingly large punctures.

    have some super glue in your backpack along with a co2 pump...........wipe the tear, superglue it and then re-inflate
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventanarama
    Spokes are made of steel, not aluminum.
    my bad... i was merely trying to say that brass is better than the alloy nipples. imo
    they call you a gansta if you spend big bucks on a pair of 20" chromes. well shlt.... i got a pair of 26's!

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    so for the 823 rims 32 hole, and hadley 32 hole (i don't think 36 holes are important since it's only 4 more spokes. so i think i should buy the hubs/ rim and pick out the spokes and nipples i want and have my bike shop do it. 3x lacing right,and some locktight. i'll keep lock tight in mine and stans tubeless. thanks everyone for the help. thanks,

    Pat

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    Use 256mm spokes on both sides, and 16mm brass nipples for standard 32 hole 3-cross lacing.

    Mavic recommends brass nipples on the tubeless rims, so I would avoid aluminum on the 823s. I built up a rear 823/hadley wheel last summer with 252mm DT spokes and 16mm brass nipples (recommended by Mavic, and makes the building process a lot easier). The wheel was a nightmare - it lasted about a half-day at Whistler before spokes started popping out of the nipples (granted I have a season pass and love to go big, so my wheels get a bit of extra stress). I rebuilt the wheel with 256mm spokes, and it has been rock solid ever since.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermoccasin
    Use 256mm spokes on both sides, and 16mm brass nipples for standard 32 hole 3-cross lacing.

    Mavic recommends brass nipples on the tubeless rims, so I would avoid aluminum on the 823s. I built up a rear 823/hadley wheel last summer with 252mm DT spokes and 16mm brass nipples (recommended by Mavic, and makes the building process a lot easier). The wheel was a nightmare - it lasted about a half-day at Whistler before spokes started popping out of the nipples (granted I have a season pass and love to go big, so my wheels get a bit of extra stress). I rebuilt the wheel with 256mm spokes, and it has been rock solid ever since.
    thanks for the input, but if i can ask everyone, why are some people saying 254 one side and 256 the other, and which side?

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