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  1. #1
    Unit 91
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    DW to be...

    Turner. Thoughts?
    Bikes

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProphet
    Turner. Thoughts?
    Don't think so. Esp after reading his interview with BikeRadar.com

    I'm not sure who it is going to.. I've heard speculation of Norco.. but i'm not so sure about that since they just did a redesign... and have the five + the new team DH frame.

  3. #3
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    Pretty sure it's going to Ibis, Independent Fabrications, Pivit cycles, and one other un nammed company... That's the last I heard.
    Proud to represent Mojo Wheels.

  4. #4
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    why is this being discussed again?!?!


    Sept. 22nd we will all know maybe even sept 4th for euro bike

  5. #5
    sixsixtysix
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    GIANT! Along with Sam Hill on the new Saturday DH!

    kidding... kidding... Couldn't help myself

  6. #6
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    i know ibis and pivot license DW but i thought i heard a bigger name company will be picking it up after the IH contract expires.

  7. #7
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    Turner sounds realistic... but I wouldn't know...

  8. #8
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    The evidence saying it will go to Turner is
    RFX is getting a redesign
    highline discontinued
    There fore the closet has a bit of space for additions

    The reason I'd say its not going to turner.

    What is the primary function of suspension on a mountain bike?

    DT: Traction, control and comfort

    Can air sprung forks and shocks match the performance of coil sprung units, or are they just one size fits all, lightweight alternatives?

    DT: If performance is gauged by Lake District rocks or downhill racing, then no, air does not perform as well as coils. On a XC bike grinding up moderately rough climbs or smooth forest single track then yes, air performs as well as coil. There is no denying that air is way lighter than metal so lighter weight can be “performance” as well. If the leverage ratio is high enough the stiction of air shocks is easily overcome for most riders to be happy with air most of the time.

    Are comfort and control opposite sides of the same coin?

    DT: Ones suspension can give the vehicle considerable control yet not provide 'comfort' as the word is defined. With massive variations in chain angle in relation to the pivot, how can any manufacturer claim to have optimum anything? There are gear combinations that work better than others on any given bicycle suspension design.

    Variable rate suspension or constant rinsing rate?

    DT: I like more leverage at the start of travel for plushness on small bumps and less leverage at the end of travel for more resistance to bottoming.

    There is a trend for suspension uniformity within brands, but do bikes with different intended use benefit from being restricted to one suspension design?

    DT: If there is a benefit to being restricted to one design it would be that the designers and engineers become very familiar with the idiosyncrasies of that design and are able to increase performance through familiarity.

    Are there ideal amounts of travel for each application (XC, Trail, FR, DH)?

    DT: Absolutely! And whatever I write today may be outdated next week!

    Are new suspension designs driven by performance or marketing?

    DT: Both of course, depends on who you talk to.

    What is the biggest misconception about bicycle suspension?

    DT: That all Horst link suspension does this…. And all mini links are that…..
    And all single pivots are this….. and finally if it looks like an egg therefore if cracked a raw egg will pour out.

    Do linkage suspension designs offer real benefits over single pivots?

    DT: There are links both Horst style and mini link style that function almost identically to raised single pivots.

    If intellectual property didn't exist, which rear suspension design would everyone use?

    DT: Hopefully whatever the designers and engineers knew how to make the best bike with.

    Why is it that a rearward axle path is often assumed to be better than a vertical or inward one?

    DT: Because the bike is travelling forward. Of course a completely rearward axle path is not the holy grail of suspension, just ask anyone that has ripped a rear mech off at full travel.

    Can a good shock/tune compensate for a poor suspension design?

    DT: Custom tuning can certainly improve any suspension, good or bad. The variables of customers and terrain are almost infinite, so getting a shock 'tuned' to the rider, terrain and bike will certainly ride better.
    To the point, no a crap bike cannot be made fantastic by sending the shock to PUSH, improved yes, transformed no.

    Is suspension set-up and the array of adjustments currently on offer overly complex for the average rider?

    DT: Almost every Turner rider has had several different brands before they get a Turner so I don't consider my customers average. They are usually quite experienced, but there are still questions to be answered, especially when one suspension adjustment overlaps another. Just wait 'till we have high AND low speed compression damping like many of the motocross models do! I am dizzy thinking about it.

    What does the future hold for mountain bike suspension?

    DT If I knew the future I would have invested heavily in Microsoft and be riding my bike more!

    The following people also answered the same questions:

    Jose Gonzalez, director of suspension technology at Trek
    Dave Weagle, president of e.thirteen and inventor of the Split Pivot suspension design
    Jean Christophe Charrier, oversees Bos Engineering's mtb project
    Mick McAndrews, Specialized's forks and shocks guru
    Steve Wade, founder of Orange Bikes
    David Earle, independent design consultant, Sotto Design
    Joe Graney, head of engineering at Santa Cruz Bicycles

    <b>to me this says i like to do it the way i like to do it</b>

  9. #9
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    Turner is also having a 20% off all of their frames sale Though I'm not sure if they do this every year

  10. #10
    moaaar shimz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod
    Turner is also having a 20% off all of their frames sale Though I'm not sure if they do this every year
    Highline has ~35% discount with almost all retailers.

  11. #11
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    I'd be utterly shocked if DW went to Turner. UTTERLY shocked.

    Personally, I think he'll be doing something with regarding to a new bike line that we haven't seen yet.

    On a side note, I'm still curious what's up with Ellsworth/Iron Horse. Not that it matters.

    There's SERIOUS nepotism going on between World Wide Cycle (Iron Horse) and RS Cycle. And if that's the way that they're going to do business, then I say screw them. I'll never buy from them after March 31, 2009.
    Meh.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prettym1k3
    There's SERIOUS nepotism going on between World Wide Cycle (Iron Horse) and RS Cycle. And if that's the way that they're going to do business, then I say screw them. I'll never buy from them after March 31, 2009.
    the owner of RS is WWC owner's son...fyi.
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  13. #13
    TLL
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    It won't be Turner.

    The Highline is being blown out because the HL is discontinued. Nothing wrong with the frame, it's just that there is too much overlap between the HL and Current RFX. For 09 there will be a new HL/RFX, meaning one less bike in the lineup. More than likely a beefier RFX, along the lines of the older Six Pack. I'm hoping it will be similar to the Knolly DT, as that is THE bike in the FR/DH category to beat.

    it will not be DW link.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixtup
    the owner of RS is WWC owner's son...fyi.
    hence the usage of the word nepotism
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  15. #15
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    Ugh, DW going to Turner is the last thing I want.

    I flipping BOUGHT a Turner (DHR) cause I hated the way DW Link (Sunday) felt. I guess so long as they don't touch the DHR I'm all good, or they come up with some boss design. I'm semi open for new ideas
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  16. #16
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    Any chance he would start his own bike company and then use DW links just on his bikes?
    Purple Popcorn

  17. #17
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    he just sold evil bikes, so i doubt it
    RIP Adam Yauch

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  18. #18
    RPG
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    Why would Turner give 20% off of all of their bikes though? E-Speculation: Unload inventory as it will be obsolete (in the consumers mind) when their DW link bikes are released. If they had old stock when the DW link was released they would have to give even deeper discounts. They have a limited amount of time to unload this stock This is my theory. It may be wrong, however, I am still going to buy a DHR, DW link or not.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    he just sold evil bikes, so i doubt it
    forgot about that
    Purple Popcorn

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptordude
    Ugh, DW going to Turner is the last thing I want.

    I flipping BOUGHT a Turner (DHR) cause I hated the way DW Link (Sunday) felt. I guess so long as they don't touch the DHR I'm all good, or they come up with some boss design. I'm semi open for new ideas
    So then ride it and enjoy it.


    I just bought one too. And in my hands are one of the best dh bikes made. That much I know. Who cares about next year....... I'll still have one of the best dh bikes made.......a 2008 dhr.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  21. #21
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    I can't speculate but i can sure as hell hope not. Because if that happens then all the IH groupies will be sporting DHR's. We all know what that will mean. I'll have to wait to get a new one. I like my DHR because of the simplicity. It doesn't need the DW and neither do i.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    he just sold evil bikes, so i doubt it
    maybe to start with a new brand? thatd be cool but unlikely.

    DT said why he was blowing all the frames out the door over on the Turner forum not too long ago.. He talked about rising logistics costs .. **** like that.

  23. #23
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    When did he sell evil bikes?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL

    The Highline is being blown out because the HL is discontinued. Nothing wrong with the frame, it's just that there is too much overlap between the HL and Current RFX. For 09 there will be a new HL/RFX, meaning one less bike in the lineup. More than likely a beefier RFX, along the lines of the older Six Pack. I'm hoping it will be similar to the Knolly DT, as that is THE bike in the FR/DH category to beat.

    it will not be DW link.
    IMO, the overlap was more with the 5.5 Spot and the RFX. But, that is not to say that the current RFX couldn't, or hasn't, seen some heavy usage. So, it may be safe to say that there was a lot of overlap in the middle of their lineup. IIRC, there is talk of a '01/'02ish RFX that will fill the void left by the departure of the Highline and current RFX.

  25. #25
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    IMO, the overlap was more with the 5.5 Spot and the RFX. But, that is not to say that the current RFX couldn't, or hasn't, seen some heavy usage. So, it may be safe to say that there was a lot of overlap in the middle of their lineup. IIRC, there is talk of a '01/'02ish RFX that will fill the void left by the departure of the Highline and current RFX.
    Good point there, as an owner of an 08 RFX I cannot disagree with you. Dropping the HL and beefing up the RFX (which will have a new name) should solve that problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by RPG
    Why would Turner give 20% off of all of their bikes though? E-Speculation: Unload inventory as it will be obsolete (in the consumers mind) when their DW link bikes are released.
    One word: Excess inventory. I don't know if you have been checking, but lots of shops are sitting on a lot of unsold inventory due to the economy seemingly being in the pooper. Turner, being smart, has dropped prices in order to move some inventory. Has nothing to do with DW link, which is a no go, pipe dream, figment of someone's Internet imagination.

    2009 Turners will not have DW link.

    PS: to those of you waiting for DHRs, you made the right choice.

  26. #26
    Rb
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    If only you guys knew......

  27. #27
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    Damn... There's a friggan 12 page thread around here somewhere about this RUMOR...

    Read what the Homers have to say: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4439465
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    IMO, the overlap was more with the 5.5 Spot and the RFX. But, that is not to say that the current RFX couldn't, or hasn't, seen some heavy usage. So, it may be safe to say that there was a lot of overlap in the middle of their lineup. IIRC, there is talk of a '01/'02ish RFX that will fill the void left by the departure of the Highline and current RFX.
    FWIW, I talked to Dave Turner last week (I called Turnerbikes and he picked up the phone) and he told me that the 09 RFX will gain 1/2 pound but specifically said it will not be a Highline replacement. The changes are so it further differentiates itself from the 5 spot. It sounded to me like he is dropping the HL because it just plain old didn't sell until he slashed the price to blow them out. Personally I haven't yet noticed a Highline on the trails but I have seen quite a few DHRs. He also mentioned making another batch of 4x frames in 09. Basically same geo as the last run. Just thought some of you might be interested.

    &#160;

  29. #29
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rb
    If only you guys knew......
    Totally! I can't take it anymore, here's what I know

    The new bike will combine the weight of the 5-spot with the geometry of the highline. It will have heli-coiled torx zerk pivots, a concentric head tube that rotates with a handlebar remote, and a DW-licensed, 5-bar horst-linked swingarm. The downtube will be investment cast, and the seat tube will behydro-formed. In a nod to santa cruz, there will be a bottle-opener built in, even though any idiot can figure out how to easily open a beer using either flat pedals or SPD's.

    In another nod to the competition, the top tub will curve upward, reducing standover clearance but somehow making the frame stronger? not sure how that works.

    Also, the swingarm will be offset, so you'll need a specialized rear wheel with custom dish!

    Also the downtube will be curved for additional fork crown clearance. HAWT!

    There's going to be all kinds of extra cable guides for dashboard gizmos and gadgets. I'm going to have a GPS, travel adjust, gravity dropper and bluetooth on mine!


  30. #30
    Rb
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Totally! I can't take it anymore, here's what I know

    The new bike will combine the weight of the 5-spot with the geometry of the highline. It will have heli-coiled torx zerk pivots, a concentric head tube that rotates with a handlebar remote, and a DW-licensed, 5-bar horst-linked swingarm. The downtube will be investment cast, and the seat tube will behydro-formed. In a nod to santa cruz, there will be a bottle-opener built in, even though any idiot can figure out how to easily open a beer using either flat pedals or SPD's.

    In another nod to the competition, the top tub will curve upward, reducing standover clearance but somehow making the frame stronger? not sure how that works.

    Also, the swingarm will be offset, so you'll need a specialized rear wheel with custom dish!

    Also the downtube will be curved for additional fork crown clearance. HAWT!

    There's going to be all kinds of extra cable guides for dashboard gizmos and gadgets. I'm going to have a GPS, travel adjust, gravity dropper and bluetooth on mine!

    There's more truth in this post than in the 20-or-so before it........


  31. #31
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rb
    There's more truth in this post than in the 20-or-so before it........

    word. And a lower BB too.



  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    So then ride it and enjoy it.


    I just bought one too. And in my hands are one of the best dh bikes made. That much I know. Who cares about next year....... I'll still have one of the best dh bikes made.......a 2008 dhr.
    Yeah I guess thats true. Vintage.
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  33. #33
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Cliffy
    Damn... There's a friggan 12 page thread around here somewhere about this RUMOR...

    Read what the Homers have to say: https://forums.mtbr.com/turner/turner-going-dw-link-09-a-411877.html#post4439465
    That's the thread I was looking for, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Totally! I can't take it anymore, here's what I know

    The new bike will combine the weight of the 5-spot with the geometry of the highline. It will have heli-coiled torx zerk pivots, a concentric head tube that rotates with a handlebar remote, and a DW-licensed, 5-bar horst-linked swingarm. The downtube will be investment cast, and the seat tube will behydro-formed. In a nod to santa cruz, there will be a bottle-opener built in, even though any idiot can figure out how to easily open a beer using either flat pedals or SPD's.

    Looks flexy.
    Last edited by TLL; 08-05-2008 at 02:35 AM.

  34. #34
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    i think its gonna be giant. ive seen some pics of prototype bikes that have it on there.
    ill try to post them up in a little bit.

    it seems reasonable that they would buy it because that masteos (or what ever it is) suspension is so close to the DW link




  35. #35
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    A while back Turner said no-way.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    There are no plans a foot to change the design of Turner bikes rear suspension. None...
    Note that was after the change from Horst link to TNT, and it was over two years ago.

    That said, since there will already be a new ~7" travel DW link freeride bike on the market in '09 (Pivot) I'd be somewhat surprised if Turner put one out as well. We'll see what's up come Interbike.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jf951
    i think its gonna be giant. ive seen some pics of prototype bikes that have it on there.
    ill try to post them up in a little bit.

    it seems reasonable that they would buy it because that masteos (or what ever it is) suspension is so close to the DW link



    No, that's just the same 'ol DW link knockoff Giant has been using for years.

    From ridemonkey:
    Quote Originally Posted by dw
    Unfortunately this is not a licensed dw-link bike, and I had nothing to do with the design.

    As this point it's gotten blatant and ridiculous. It's certainly not fair, but what in life is. We have to keep believing that the system does what it is supposed to and things are righted eventually. I'm a firm believer in karma, so..

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    No, that's just the same 'ol DW link knockoff Giant has been using for years.

    From ridemonkey:
    wow!! theyre putting THAT on the market with out the DW link liscense and theyre getting away with it!?!?!
    holy ****!!!
    hmmm lawsuit??

  38. #38
    maker of trail
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    Why so much concern about this silly DW link?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rb
    If only you guys knew......
    And if only you really did know...

  40. #40
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    Specialised, now theyre signed up Sam Hill
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Specialised, now theyre signed up Sam Hill
    yup

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by his dudeness
    And if only you really did know...
    actually, there are a few of us who know.
    64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by essenmeinstuff
    Why so much concern about this silly DW link?
    because we love gossiping

  44. #44
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    Titus will use DW link in 2009.

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