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  1. #1
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    downhill hardtail?

    eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?

  2. #2
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    then use one. i know alot of people who throwdown on downhill courses on hardtials
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyota kawasaki
    eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?
    Freeride hardtails = good

    DownHill Hardtails = not so good

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyota kawasaki
    eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?
    well it probably depends on the DH course, but if you wanted to use a hardtail i would use a Banshee Morphine just cause it has a good reputation as far as being a freerideing hardtail and it is like the strongest HT out there also you can also use a long travel fork

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyota kawasaki
    eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?
    Mostly used for FR, but I really wanna DH on it on a more mellow course so that the penalty of the lack of suspension isn't significant.
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    If your idea of DH is groomed runs with banked corners everywhere, then that bike is just fine.

    If your looking to blast 50mph through bolder gardens, that HT is death.

    I would personally rock the **** out of that rig, very nice setup. Must be a killer hucker.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud _ Butt
    If your idea of DH is groomed runs with banked corners everywhere, then that bike is just fine.

    If your looking to blast 50mph through bolder gardens, that HT is death.

    I would personally rock the **** out of that rig, very nice setup. Must be a killer hucker.
    then wouldn't you float over the tops? i do that on stair cases.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBsoxB
    then wouldn't you float over the tops? i do that on stair cases.
    I would hope! Maybe float is a bad word? How about survive?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud _ Butt
    I would hope! Maybe float is a bad word? How about survive?
    then skim.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyota kawasaki
    eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use [a] hardtail?
    then bloody use it...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ-
    then bloody use it...
    emphasis on "bloody"
    signature

  12. #12
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    Mostly used for FR, but I really wanna DH on it on a more mellow course so that the penalty of the lack of suspension isn't significant.
    dan, if i can hit keystone on my hardtail with a 5" single crown fork, and (nearly) keep up with the fullies in the group, you'll not have any problems on that bike. beefier than my bike was, but then, i'm also a weenie on drops more than 3 or 4 feet.

    for the original poster: sure, a hardtail is slower in general on the really nasty stuff, and you have to be smarter about picking lines, but none of that is any reason to not go for it!

    what made a big difference for me was dropping the seat as much as i could, and running the fattest tires i could on the front and rear. granted, i can fit a 2.7 maxxis or intense in the rear of my hardtail.

    dave
    (looking forward to a summer playing more on the lifts now that i have a fully.......)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    dan, if i can hit keystone on my hardtail with a 5" single crown fork, and (nearly) keep up with the fullies in the group, you'll not have any problems on that bike. beefier than my bike was, but then, i'm also a weenie on drops more than 3 or 4 feet.

    for the original poster: sure, a hardtail is slower in general on the really nasty stuff, and you have to be smarter about picking lines, but none of that is any reason to not go for it!

    what made a big difference for me was dropping the seat as much as i could, and running the fattest tires i could on the front and rear. granted, i can fit a 2.7 maxxis or intense in the rear of my hardtail.

    dave
    (looking forward to a summer playing more on the lifts now that i have a fully.......)
    goottta love keystone
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    goottta love keystone

    yep. it and angelfire are the only two places i've done any lift assisted riding. both with my hardtail. AF once, keystone half a dozen times. with the new fully, i think i'll spend a bit more time doing that this summer. i'll check out vail a time or two as well, i'm sure.
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  15. #15
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    Keystone
    Last edited by SHIVER ME TIMBERS; 12-27-2006 at 10:22 AM.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    dan, if i can hit keystone on my hardtail with a 5" single crown fork, and (nearly) keep up with the fullies in the group, you'll not have any problems on that bike. beefier than my bike was, but then, i'm also a weenie on drops more than 3 or 4 feet.

    for the original poster: sure, a hardtail is slower in general on the really nasty stuff, and you have to be smarter about picking lines, but none of that is any reason to not go for it!

    what made a big difference for me was dropping the seat as much as i could, and running the fattest tires i could on the front and rear. granted, i can fit a 2.7 maxxis or intense in the rear of my hardtail.

    dave
    (looking forward to a summer playing more on the lifts now that i have a fully.......)
    Oh ya, I have no doubt in my ability to do it, but I need all the help I can get when it comes to actual racing, and I have a full squish bike so I might as well use it for angel fire and keystone. I definitely wanna ride the hard tail on the tamer courses such as crested butte and snow mass.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    Oh ya, I have no doubt in my ability to do it, but I need all the help I can get when it comes to actual racing, and I have a full squish bike so I might as well use it for angel fire and keystone. I definitely wanna ride the hard tail on the tamer courses such as crested butte and snow mass.
    I just don't know...if it was me even on the tamer courses i would still want a full suspension bike...even if it was 5 inches in the rear.....Full suspension is very nice
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  18. #18
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    have you ridden the course they use at snowmass?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    have you ridden the course they use at snowmass?
    never..................................
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  20. #20
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    the year I rode it, it was a small step above paved pathway with a moderate grade

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    the year I rode it, it was a small step above paved pathway with a moderate grade
    well then a hardtail is in order...how do they get away calling it a dh trail insted od xc???
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    Oh ya, I have no doubt in my ability to do it, but I need all the help I can get when it comes to actual racing, and I have a full squish bike so I might as well use it for angel fire and keystone. I definitely wanna ride the hard tail on the tamer courses such as crested butte and snow mass.

    ah, got it. didn't know if that was your only bike or not.

    hell, take the hardtail to keystone for a day, just to see. it'll be an eye opener as to how much the suspension works for you on the other bike. and it can only make you smoother, right? at least, that's what i always told myself!
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    ah, got it. didn't know if that was your only bike or not.

    hell, take the hardtail to keystone for a day, just to see. it'll be an eye opener as to how much the suspension works for you on the other bike. and it can only make you smoother, right? at least, that's what i always told myself!
    FS instead of a hardtail is like night and a day time nuclear bomb explosion
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  24. #24
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    I think that HT's with DC forks look a little goofy but thats probably because ive never seen one in person to appreciate it
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sombrio69
    well it probably depends on the DH course, but if you wanted to use a hardtail i would use a Banshee Morphine just cause it has a good reputation as far as being a freerideing hardtail and it is like the strongest HT out there also you can also use a long travel fork
    I think there is other HT bikes out there that may contend as the strongest HT...Evil and BMW both come to mind among others.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Bender
    I think that HT's with DC forks look a little goofy but thats probably because ive never seen one in person to appreciate it
    I think they look pretty cool. My son will be racing his hardtail in DH & SuperD events this year. Doesn't seem to be slowing him down any. It will help you pick & appreciate the smoother line. Photo by Kristian.
    Last edited by DWF; 03-20-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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  27. #27
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    FS instead of a hardtail is like night and a day time nuclear bomb explosion
    oh, i can already tell. i've been over to fruita and moab with it already, and a few local rides. it's not replacing my hardtail as the "daily ride" by any means, but for the lift and long shuttle stuff, i already like it!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover

    dave
    (looking forward to a summer playing more on the lifts now that i have a fully.......)
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1ngletrack
    WILD THANG bahbah.. bahbah - You make ma heart sing bahbah..bahbah...

    yep. i like the new stuff form last summer, but i'd rather have more tight/twisty/techy in the trees stuff vs. just straight down the mountian. speed is good, but more techy works for me.
    i'm working on that whole getting my wheels higher off the ground thing.

    i've got about a 2/3 success rate on that section on the hardtail. looking to up that a bit this year.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    I think they look pretty cool. My son will be racing his hardtail in DH & SuperD events this year. Doesn't seem to be slowing him down any. It will help you pick & appreciate the smoother line. Photo by Kristian.
    Nice! That's some tech shnit there!

    All these pics of HTs with DC forks is making me drool. Me wanty! Wanna trade bikes?


    BTW, has anyne put a Fox 36 onto a hardtail yet? That would be my ultimate HT dreambike!!!

  31. #31
    Kill that $hit!
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    Oohh yeah....... Gotta love the HT with a DC fork.


  32. #32
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    if ur gonna go wit the hardtail i would reccomend a norco torrent.

  33. #33
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    my all around HT
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    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  34. #34
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    DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE HARDTAIL PRIDE.........

    I think this is what Jbsox was refering to as "SKIMMING"...
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    i want to post more but i can't stop riding!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_a_k_e_69@hotmail.com
    my all around HT

    Here is my all around one...


    Will PK be a good place to test it..!

    EDIT.
    Sorry... no more pouser pics. next will be in action..
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIA
    Here is my all around one...

    Will PK be a good place to test it..!
    GORGEOUS.
    24" rear?
    i want to post more but i can't stop riding!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSUN
    GORGEOUS.
    24" rear?

    Si..
    26"3.0/24"2.6

  38. #38
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    I like how the big front tire really makes the 24 stand out...for example I don't think anyone noticed that I'm running a 24 since I'm running a smaller front tire than back. I like it a lot

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIA
    EDIT.
    Sorry... no more pouser pics. next will be in action..
    Action pics? Heres my Fav.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  40. #40
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    New build

    Had to go with the Surly (downhill in MN? We have SKI resorts!!!). Never been ridden yet with the new Fox. Rick
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  41. #41
    Uhhhhh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    have you ridden the course they use at snowmass?
    Hobomist raced a Surly at Snowmass Nats last year on the sport course. You'll be faster on a fully just because of the horrible braking bumps that form. And the expert course also has some techier spots where you'll want a FS.

    Vail owns Keystone.
    Fayetteville, AR and N.W.A RePrEsEnT

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSherpa

    Vail owns Keystone.

    I liked Keystone better......I hated the "fireroad" at the end of all trails before the lift at Vail
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  43. #43
    Uhhhhh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    I liked Keystone better......I hated the "fireroad" at the end of all trails before the lift at Vail
    That did suck, but the '94 WC course was soo fun.
    Fayetteville, AR and N.W.A RePrEsEnT

  44. #44
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    like seriosuly i dont realy want a fs bike.. hardtails are sweet

    but i do agree a DC looks kinda whack

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by badlander
    Had to go with the Surly (downhill in MN? We have SKI resorts!!!). Never been ridden yet with the new Fox. Rick
    Interesting frame choice for a hardcore hardtail.
    Those seatstays are almost the same diameter of the DeeMax spokes!!
    Whats the frame made of?? it seems awfully flexible and weak....
    .No offense whatsoever, just interesting build.
    i want to post more but i can't stop riding!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyota kawasaki
    like seriosuly i dont realy want a fs bike.. hardtails are sweet

    but i do agree a DC looks kinda whack
    hardtails are also more fun, more challenging, and let you get that seat damn low.

    Plus, if someone cleans the same huge huck on a HT that someone else did on a FS, who's got the skilz?

    FS allows more room for error. On a HT you gotta get damn good to be smooth.

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  48. #48
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    Most higher end hardtails today are designed to handle o DC fork. Devinci Hucker can handle a 7 inch fork. Its approved by Devinci so if anyone snaps a frame and they're worried because they had a DC fork on it, dont worry its made to handle.
    I agree about hardtails are more fun, and as far as i see it, easier to climb while still being in the saddle. The only problem i had with climbing on my bike is if you have to stand to climb, there is a traction issue which a FS would be handy... but for the price difference, I think I'll stick to my hardtail.
    When I ride with people from here( which is about once a year lol) I'm the only one with a hardtail as of to date.... everyone has bikes that are bigger then my van lol.

  49. #49
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  50. #50
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    My experience

    Talking from my personal experience, I had a P3 that I did some FR with and a touch of DH. It was good for some smooth tracks and drops with a nice tranny, but over rocky sections it pretty much vibrated my sperms to death. I'm glad I did buy a P3 though, because now I know how much better a dual suspension bike is. I was amazed by how fast you can attack rocky sections with my new bighit. This has given me more confidence to do bigger stuff and in general made me more excited about DH then I ever was with my P3.

  51. #51
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    I race both, and from a racing/flat pedals perspective, the hardest task on a HT is keeping the pedals while stroking through the rougher sections at speed. Aside from the obvious benefits of a fully, that's what I think...

  52. #52
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    I believe you can do anything on a hardtail you can do on a full sus.
    you only get experience after you needed it

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeperson
    I believe you can do anything on a hardtail you can do on a full sus.
    I dont know if Id go that far but damn close thats for sure. I love HT's and use mine for a lil FR as well but am about to build a FS for DH.

  54. #54
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    This is what I use, Soul Cycles Sluggo, Rockshox Domain 318 110mm to 170mm or I can lock it out at 180mm

    DH on HT is good fun, and a good way to see what kind of balls you have, thats the part I'm working on!

  55. #55
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    I'm just curious, why do people dig threads outta the depths of hell? May 05

  56. #56
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    I love my DH hardtail!!! 05 Norco Manik... She tears up South Mountains gravity trials like it's a fully, 2-3 footers no problem. Solid bike! $499 eBay special direct from the North Shore. Still got Canadian air in the tires...I think thats good luck Love me some hardtail!

    <a href="https://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/latedropbob/mountian%20biken/?action=view&current=P1010002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/latedropbob/mountian%20biken/P1010002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  57. #57
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    Don't know, kind of funny...

  58. #58
    SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
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    and DCs on hardtails?! this took me by surprise, It reminded me of pinkbike suddenly...
    Hunter, Simmons, Berrecloth, Watson,Vanderham, Semenuk, Schley, Gulevich, Bourdon, Smith, Moreland, Shandro, Boyko... Bieber.

  59. #59
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    Old,but good thread.
    I bought a Banshee Scratch frame for my FR-DH-slalom bike.
    I'll see how i like it.
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  60. #60
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    I'm 90% complete on a SS DH/FR hardtail build, I just need THE MONEY!
    Hunter, Simmons, Berrecloth, Watson,Vanderham, Semenuk, Schley, Gulevich, Bourdon, Smith, Moreland, Shandro, Boyko... Bieber.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebomber
    I'm 90% complete on a SS DH/FR hardtail build, I just need THE MONEY!
    BTY: I love your avitar, I just seen him on you tube! I kill you!

    I'm about to go SS on my sluggo, I broke the Drail. Hanger last night at Rays MTB...

  62. #62
    Freetard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    Keystone
    I second that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    Those cables on the Socom look flexy

  63. #63
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    Ride the hardtail for all of you downhill for a month, and then switch over to the FS. You will be rippin mach-stupid.

  64. #64
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    balfa minute man

  65. #65
    SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitzer
    BTY: I love your avitar, I just seen him on you tube! I kill you!

    I'm about to go SS on my sluggo, I broke the Drail. Hanger last night at Rays MTB...
    The Sluggo reminded me of the Evil Imperial, which is one of my dream hardtail frames.
    How did the Sluggo feel?

    I decided to experiment on SS, and trying different setups like using BMX cranks. If I decide to go FS, that will be a shifted one. my HT will be SS.
    Hunter, Simmons, Berrecloth, Watson,Vanderham, Semenuk, Schley, Gulevich, Bourdon, Smith, Moreland, Shandro, Boyko... Bieber.

  66. #66
    If you won't build I will
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    Quote Originally Posted by suicidebomber
    The Sluggo reminded me of the Evil Imperial, which is one of my dream hardtail frames.
    How did the Sluggo feel?

    I decided to experiment on SS, and trying different setups like using BMX cranks. If I decide to go FS, that will be a shifted one. my HT will be SS.
    It's nice, It's feels like a DH rig ( but it is indeed and DH bike), the front end sits really high, I love it! It was only $250 from soul with out paint (raw) it is my favorite bike in my fleet, I picked it up for HT-DH and one day I took it to Ray's and It jumped better then my jump bike, so I was like phuck that, I sold my jump bike 2 days latter, If I had to own one bike She would be it!
    Sluggo = Sick ass wip!!!!
    BUY ONE!!!!

  67. #67
    If you won't build I will
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Ride the hardtail for all of you downhill for a month, and then switch over to the FS. You will be rippin mach-stupid.
    I'll drink to that!

  68. #68
    ≈ > ♥
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    I like to switch it up every so often...
    Sometimes take out the dually, sometimes the hardtail. Keeps me honest!

    Both just as capable of handling the same lines...


  69. #69
    SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Ride the hardtail for all of you downhill for a month, and then switch over to the FS. You will be rippin mach-stupid.

    Amen. Hardtails provide steady progression. And they rock.

    FS bikes can wait. Because I don't have the money.
    Hunter, Simmons, Berrecloth, Watson,Vanderham, Semenuk, Schley, Gulevich, Bourdon, Smith, Moreland, Shandro, Boyko... Bieber.

  70. #70
    @wishEMT
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    not a dh hardtail, but me ridin the local dh on my ht



    and some old dh race pics




  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud _ Butt
    Freeride hardtails = good

    DownHill Hardtails = not so good
    Agreed. Tried it, fell to much and upgraded to Big Hit= don't ever look back!!

  72. #72
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    Hi,
    I have an old Azonic Ds1 and an even older set of Boxxers. Anyone think that would work as a not-tooo-serious DS HT?

    Cheers,
    Ade

  73. #73
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    DH HT sorry

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladespin
    Hi,
    I have an old Azonic Ds1 and an even older set of Boxxers. Anyone think that would work as a not-tooo-serious DS HT?

    Cheers,
    Ade
    No. It will handle like sh*t and your headtube will probably shear off.

  75. #75
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    it make you a better rider if you can ride a hardtail thru the rock gardens. You learn to choose your lines better and then when you are on a FS or hardtail you rock the socks off any FS rig you pass because they cannot read the trail and hit every boulder on the trail.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I'm just curious, why do people dig threads outta the depths of hell? May 05

    What he said.

  77. #77
    DH on a HT
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    here is my DH HT i started DH on a HT and went through 2 "dh bikes" and now i am back to a HT
    2005 GT Moto with Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 2 150mm
    Check me out...

    Oneal/Azonic, e.13, Hayes, ODI grips, SIXSIXONE

  78. #78
    DWF
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    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  79. #79
    I'm geoff. Who are you?
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    I raced DH on a hardtail. I didn't hate it. But i didn't know any better....

  80. #80
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    I don't understand what 180mm is actually needed for.

    bumps or drops.

    Drops, the front goes down 180mm and you feel like your going to go over the bars, not to mention your ankles would be dead.

    Bumps, front tire rolls over and your rear comes crashing into it.

    i don't really understand.

  81. #81
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    ballzz of steel

    if you want to have kids, go for a full suspension.
    if you have ballzz of steel. go for the hard tail

  82. #82
    e.f.f.e.c.t smoothoperatr
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  83. #83
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    I ride my FR hardtail as a DH hardtail every now and then. I can't say I enjoy it as much as I could with a nice full suspension bike, but while my money is being saved up and I wait for Giant to release their 2010 bikes and frames, I'm staying a hardtail rider.

    It does get ridden on real DH tracks, and fast. I did a private uplift at Moelfre (Athertons track, farmer jack was the driver) today. And that's one rutted up, loose track completely covered with rocks and demanding sections. It's definitely hard on a hardtail (excuse the pun), you get constant cramp in your hands and can't stay on the pedals so well, your line choice has to be perfect to keep speed and there's very little forgiveness if/when you do make a mistake. That being said I wasn't struggling to keep up with some of the guys on DH rigs.



    The same spec was used as above mostly. Only an XTR M971 shadow medium cage derailleur was on instead of the XT and a Selle Italia SLR Carbonio flow saddle.

  84. #84
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    oh yeah

  85. #85
    Its got what plants crave
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    Ugh, old thread. Sometimes I wish they'd purge or archive this old BS.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres View Post
    I'm just curious, why do people dig threads outta the depths of hell? May 05
    zombie

  87. #87
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    I saw a guy go down Supreme DH at Angelfire on an old Redline MTB with no suspension.

  88. #88
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    WTF old thread. lame

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