Does everyone in here have medical insurance?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Does everyone in here have medical insurance?

    Who do not have medical coverage at all? or have limited coverage?

    I'm wondering what the premium are from one of those "outdoor activity" medical coverage?

    Anyone has ever been injured but without coverage?

  2. #2
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    Fortunately I do. It's a godsend.
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  3. #3
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    We all were bamboozled by Obama's promise of gov't universal healthcare so I dumped mine and am still waiting..... hmmmmm. DOH!




















    j/k
    "It looks flexy"

  4. #4
    killin clear creek
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    Just used my insurance to see a ortho last week, so nice to have!!! $35 to see a specialist.

    I wakeboarded for a living for a while, blew both knees right after winning nationals... doh! I went to a doc twice & decided just to skip surgery because I couldn't afford it... BAD CALL! I'll never go without at least some type of insurance again.

    There are a bunch of different self employed type policies that I know of that are affordable & will help you in the case of surgery or similar major issues. Never head of an "outdoor activities" policy.
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  5. #5
    CoolArrow
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    was without insurance last summer - broke two metacarpals in my left hand (#4 & 5). Two plates and 9 pins came to a retail price of nearly $18,000. I'll be paying for this for years.

    I've been riding aggressively over 20 years in one way or another, and this injury was from a very slow moving otb accident where I was not even pushing limits.

    Insurance is a good thing to have. Even a high deductible of 5 or 10K would have saved me thousands...
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Just used my insurance to see a ortho last week, so nice to have!!! $35 to see a specialist.

    I wakeboarded for a living for a while, blew both knees right after winning nationals... doh! I went to a doc twice & decided just to skip surgery because I couldn't afford it... BAD CALL! I'll never go without at least some type of insurance again.

    There are a bunch of different self employed type policies that I know of that are affordable & will help you in the case of surgery or similar major issues. Never head of an "outdoor activities" policy.
    I would like to know what you consider affordable. We buy it through the Costco small business program and it's almost eight hundred a month for 2 people with no medical problems!
    "It looks flexy"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    We all were bamboozled by Obama's promise of gov't universal healthcare so I dumped mine and am still waiting..... hmmmmm. DOH!
    Well I live in the UK so when I crash, I go to a hospital.
    Lets take my wife's recent crash as an example.

    She slipped on some grass and hit her head pretty hard a mile from the nearest road.
    A doctor was on scene in about 10 minutes (sent from nearest village).
    A helicopter arrived in 20 and took her straight to the nearest city with a specialist head injuries clinic. She was seen my a specialist immediately, they did an MRI which thankfully came up clear. She was then booked in for follow up care in a hospital near where we live.
    I arrived in the car a couple of hours later ('copter can fly a hell of a lot faster than I can drive), picked her up and took home.

    Total expense to me including deductible = 0.

    If I was on income support, they would have paid for my transport.


    Gosh, it is so hard being in a country with government run healthcare.
    Just imagine what would happen if the Government had control, it would be like the fire service, the police or the army ;-)
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I would like to know what you consider affordable. We buy it through the Costco small business program and it's almost eight hundred a month for 2 people with no medical problems!

    Good GOD! I pay $175 a month for me and my son and that includes eye, medical and dental. Our work covers the majority of it!

  9. #9
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    2 insurance policies for me! 2 surgeries this year and I think my total out of pocket cost has been like...$2.99. Just because for one claim it was easier to pay it than send it to my secondary insurance

  10. #10
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    My buddy broke his back in and didnt pay a dime without insurance... he was unemployeed tho.

    However, I broke my collar bone and totalled like $1500 by the time I was done... with "good" insurance.

  11. #11
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    i have solid health insurance through my employer

    i knocked myself silly and got a concussion at some local DJs, which earned me a swift trip to the ER. Thankfully I had friends to drive me there, and didn't require a med-evac or anything like that.
    It was a long ER experience, complete with a CAT scan, pain killers and all kinds of other cleaning and bandaging nonsense. The final bill was around 6-7 grand.
    all I paid was the $100 co-pay at the door

    insurance - good

  12. #12
    maker of trail
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    We all were bamboozled by Obama's promise of gov't universal healthcare so I dumped mine and am still waiting..... hmmmmm. DOH!
    Heh, I think you guys on the other side of the border there get more bamboozled (scammed) by lobbyists and FOX "news"

  13. #13
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    Nope.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Well I live in the UK so when I crash, I go to a hospital.
    Lets take my wife's recent crash as an example.

    She slipped on some grass and hit her head pretty hard a mile from the nearest road.
    A doctor was on scene in about 10 minutes (sent from nearest village).
    A helicopter arrived in 20 and took her straight to the nearest city with a specialist head injuries clinic. She was seen my a specialist immediately, they did an MRI which thankfully came up clear. She was then booked in for follow up care in a hospital near where we live.
    I arrived in the car a couple of hours later ('copter can fly a hell of a lot faster than I can drive), picked her up and took home.

    Total expense to me including deductible = 0.

    If I was on income support, they would have paid for my transport.


    Gosh, it is so hard being in a country with government run healthcare.
    Just imagine what would happen if the Government had control, it would be like the fire service, the police or the army ;-)
    Hahaha, you are laughing into their faces, I live in Canada and also have no fear to hurt myself for only 120CAD 2people per month. I broke my colar bone in US - had to have surgery and thank god I was insured - whole deal cost $39000 USD. Never go out without insurance in US no matter what Obama say
    Last edited by robicycle; 08-16-2010 at 05:59 PM.

  15. #15
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    No health insurance = silly

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Well I live in the UK so when I crash, I go to a hospital.
    Lets take my wife's recent crash as an ...

    Total expense to me including deductible = 0.

    If I was on income support, they would have paid for my transport.


    Gosh, it is so hard being in a country with government run healthcare.
    Just imagine what would happen if the Government had control, it would be like the fire service, the police or the army ;-)
    Like I said, obama did promise healthcare and completely failed. All we get is a huge fine if we don't go buy it by 2012 or 2014 or something. Gee thanks?
    "It looks flexy"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chauzie
    Who do not have medical coverage at all? or have limited coverage?

    I'm wondering what the premium are from one of those "outdoor activity" medical coverage?

    Anyone has ever been injured but without coverage?

    Most of the civilized world has public health insurance. So the answer is "yes" to first question.
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  18. #18
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    We believe in "free markets" here.... Riches for the few, bankruptcy for the many!
    Profit from sickness and injury! The American way!

  19. #19
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    Does a first aid kit count? I have an ex-GF who is a physican that is willing to patch me up as long as there's no anestetic involved.
    The guy yo' momma "act" like she don't know!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim F.
    Does a first aid kit count? I have an ex-GF who is a physican that is willing to patch me up as long as there's no anestetic involved.
    You get free surgery and she gets to operate on a patient without anaesthetic - win/win

    Did you wisen up since and start choosing less trippy girlfriends?









  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Like I said, obama did promise healthcare and completely failed. All we get is a huge fine if we don't go buy it by 2012 or 2014 or something. Gee thanks?
    im just baffled at your comprehension of how the heathcare reform bill turned out.

    seriously man, thats embarrassing. do 15 minutes of reading or something and get a firmer grasp on what happened.

    as of this friday im no longer insured or employed. its a little scary. even WITH insurance, im in a few thousand dollars in medical costs this year.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    We all were bamboozled by Obama's promise of gov't universal healthcare so I dumped mine and am still waiting..... hmmmmm. DOH!

    j/k
    Joking about the fact universal healthcare got gimped to hell and back by another "party" is always fun!!

    No wait....it's ****ing ********.
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  23. #23
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    The health insurance in the US is embarrassing. However public health insurance comes with its own set of problems (tax rates, administrative overhead, scaling problems with a country the size of the US) which makes it a less than simple thing to just roll out even assuming you could get it done properly with our political morass.

    My wife is a dual citizen and we will certainly hit up the EU if anything expensive and non-emergency is needed. The plane ticket is much cheaper. Sad state of affairs for our country.

    I do have health insurance, $400 a month for 2 people. We're covered well in most cases but its a PITA dealing with the carrier.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Like I said, obama did promise healthcare and completely failed. All we get is a huge fine if we don't go buy it by 2012 or 2014 or something. Gee thanks?
    I wouldn't blame it on Obama. It was all those against Social medicine that nick picked it and blocked it to the death. Guess their afraid well become a socialist country like Canada or the UK.
    The guy yo' momma "act" like she don't know!

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=. even WITH insurance, im in a few thousand dollars in medical costs this year.[/QUOTE]

    Was looking at having a simple hernia surgery a few years back, till I found out how much it would cost me out of pocket. Most people don't realize what type of sham most insurance policies are.
    The guy yo' momma "act" like she don't know!

  26. #26
    Ricky DH
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    20 dollar co-pays, free MRI's, 5 dollar perscriptions, stuff like that. I had to have 15 stitches in my
    finger a few years back, I think that cost me about 100 bucks out of pocket, something like that.

  27. #27
    bike rider
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    The whole medical industry is a scam. I self heal. No insurance and haven't seen a doctor in a decade and a half. As I type this I'm trying to get a gash to heal. The clinic quoted me $500+ for 6 stitches. I'd rather do it myself and have a scar.
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  28. #28
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    Wow interesting replies so far. I wanted to ask this in this forum since many of you are more of the aggressive types.

    As for me, I have insurance through my employer for free, but the deductible is $1500 first. I'm young and need to see the dr unless I broke something, and I figure if i require hospitalization, I can live with $1500 out of pocket when the bill is gonna be like 20,000 easily.

    But a few years ago when I was younger and stupider, I was riding a motorcyle without insurance. I had a partime job (so no medical coverage) and was too old to piggyback on mommy's work insurance. So I crashed the moto and broke 3 ligaments in left knee: acl, pcl, mcl. Didn't have money. So I just lived with a totally broken knee, wearing a hard brace all the time. Try to imagine that! But with a hard brace, I could actually do some light jogging on the threadmill, and speed walk ok. I didn't think there was any public assistance program until one day some friends told me to look into a locally (county) funded program for the "indigent". So I applied and got a one-time coverage for hospital fee (which is the bulk of any medical procedure). The surgeon's bill came out to be $1800 for 3 ligaments. Hospital was like $15,000+ for an OUT-PATIENT stay! The surgeon was nice, he knew my sis, and told me to don't pay him. He said he'll try to get reimbursed by the country, which he said would be peanuts, but he wanted to help me, told me to just worry about recovering that knee. Let me tell you it felt like I had a new leash on life because i had a fixed knee and got out debt-free out of the ordeal.

    Insurance in the US is really a shady business, especially for the working class. If you work for an average job, then even the cost of getting insurance thru your employer might still be high for you. If your job is high-paying, than you're better off. But if you're piss poor and have no job or money, you'll mostly likely can apply for some sort of one-time coverage. And if you're really piss poor (illegals), then hell no worry at all, but I don't think the illegals are what causing this insurance mess, so it's not fair to blame them, but just pointing out the fact.

    I remember reading a survey somewhere saying that in the US it costs 5 times as much to insure a person than in Japan! That's 5 TIMES as much money going down the drain somewhere. Now Japan has a very modernized and sophisticated medical technology infrastructure, and their equipments are in every way just as good if not better than what we have in the US. So where how can Japan get away with spending 5x less money? surely it is not the cost of equipment! The only explanation is that in the US, the bureaucratic cost is a monstrosity! ya think the insurance industry might have something to do with creating and perpetuating this bureaucratic cost? I'd say so.

    Republicans and Democrats like to play the blame game on CNN and Fox. I don't get caught in those partisan crap. But i gotta say the Republicans are better at employing "scare tactics" than the Dems.

    It's a shame that Obama couldn't get the Feds to be one of the insurer too. That would have give the insurance industry some real competition for the first time. It was a pipe dream that stood low chance of passing.

    On a sidenote: back in the 50s, America was a place where you could actually dream of upward mobility. Now, you're just happy to have medical coverage and a house. Forget upward anything and retirement is a nightmare. But hey if you're big corp and you fail, then the Feds will come to your rescue. Rigged capitalism must be nice.

  29. #29
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    ^ whats almost funny, was a news piece I saw, I think on fox, so "news" (TM), it was about this new health system in the US, and the very people this was meant to help (poor unemployed etc) were so angry at what was "being done to them by communism and Obama" that they got violent and were throwing things at no one in particular. I have not seen such a display of uneducated and misinformed rage in a while, and I certainly didn't expect it from modern western democratic society!

  30. #30
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    Both parties totally suck "Republicrats". We need socialized healthcare.

    @ Tim F. Heck yes I'll blame Obama. He promised universal healthcare. We aren't getting it - just a mismash of alleged reform that only a few people understand very much of. Yes we'll be able to 'piggyback' 3 years longer, no people won't be allowed to self insure as much as in the past. Big whoop, we don't have universal healthcare for all US citizens so it's a big fail in my book.

    BTW, here in WA we have this system called "Basic Health" a limited number of people that can apply for. It's cheap, subsidized, and only for certain people. That ain't right either. I wonder how the proposed $51 million dollar "welfare" cut will affect our Basic Health program?
    "It looks flexy"

  31. #31
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    ^^ kinda like pissed poor folks living out of trailers voting for tax breaks for the rich.

    American businesses have extreme predatory practices. They prey on Americans, foreigners, children, seniors, and whatever else they can squeeze a profit out of. Misinformation is one of the main vehicle used. Cause enough confusion within the mass, and watch it run like a headless chicken. And while the public is stirred into a pandemonium cocktail, the bloodsuckers quietly feast in the background!


    edit:
    looks like this topic is quickly shifting toward a political discussion! Not exactly a topic for a Freeride/DH forum. but the fact that some hardcore riders in here voice their opinion on this subject of healthcare just goes to show that how big of a mess it is, that you can't escape from it even in a Freeride/DH forum!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Both parties totally suck "Republicrats". We need socialized healthcare.

    @ Tim F. Heck yes I'll blame Obama. He promised universal healthcare. We aren't getting it - just a mismash of alleged reform that only a few people understand very much of. Yes we'll be able to 'piggyback' 3 years longer, no people won't be allowed to self insure as much as in the past. Big whoop, we don't have universal healthcare for all US citizens so it's a big fail in my book.
    are you aware we have a congress with a few hundred people who pass or deny bills? the bill that got passed had nothing to do with obama.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    are you aware we have a congress with a few hundred people who pass or deny bills? the bill that got passed had nothing to do with obama.
    Congress is democrat majority. Hopefully you are aware of that.
    "It looks flexy"

  34. #34
    moaaar shimz
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    I've got insurance.. 3,000 USD deductible but has true, unlimited coverage... I used to have a 800,000 USD limit.

  35. #35
    GAME ON!
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    yes, i'm canadian. broke my collarbone a couple years back and was in and out within 5 hours with a 2 week supply of percs. $0. granted, i probably pay $1000 a year in taxes for that, but whatever.

  36. #36
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    I pay $120.00 for my insurance through work. $100 copay and I can use about $65k a year if needed. So far I haven't used it once, knock on wood.

    Political topic... socialized medicine needs to come to the US. You can't put a price on someone's health. What if it was your Grandma that needed surgery but couldn't afford it because she went upside down on her house and had to foreclose???

  37. #37
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    There's also been a lot of what seems like propaganda from the anti-socialized medicine gang saying the quality of socialized meds just isn't there. Can some Canuckastanians chime in on this?
    All I can remember from when I was young and running around like a little maniac in Toronto was, I was able to cruise right into a clinic when I got hurt and they'd patch me up and send me on my merry way. I was also pretty much a latch-key kid, so I'd also cruise in whenever I felt a cold or flu come on, get some meds and go home for chix soup. But not having had personal exp for anything large/serious, I'd just like those who know to confirm/deny the quality issue(s).
    **I'm now in Golden, CO and haven't been back in 20+ years which is why I'm firing this question out...but seriously thinking about a move to Vancouver once I'm done w/ my grad work**

  38. #38
    GAME ON!
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    see my post above.

  39. #39
    Perpetual Hack
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    Just like the US, depends upon where you live.
    For MRI, or other high-end diags, there are waits based upon need, higher the need the faster. (ie imediate ) Waits are usually worse in big city, less so in mid-size.

    I broke my right M4&5 last week (Boxers Fracture) ( Happy Birthday to me!!) from a slow speed washout while lift riding with my son. (now know NOT to pull over and wait for my son ) Went to emerg 2 days later when I figured it wasn't just a bad bruise as in times past. In, triage, x-ray, casting, script for Toradol, note for work and out in less than 2 hours.
    Cost = 0$

    michael

  40. #40
    GAME ON!
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    how did you get a free note? usually they are mandatory $$

  41. #41
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    the game seems to be - ER=Free and at the "Office" 15-20 bones depending upon Doc etc...

    BTW - The Toradol was for Migraines not the break. Two birds one stone, no additinal $s.
    The break has so far been 2 - 200mg Advil total.

    michael

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingduck
    We believe in "free markets" here.... Riches for the few, bankruptcy for the many!
    Profit from sickness and injury! The American way!
    Do yourself a favor and take an Econ course before you make yourself look like a retard on the internet. A study of logic and rhetoric might also be beneficial, seeing as your statement is littered with fallacy.

    In case you haven't noticed, the competency of our government in regards to just about anything is undeniably dismal. You name it, they can't do it. You're seriously considering putting the quality of your healthcare in their hands?

    Comparatively speaking, Canada's healthcare system is horrendous. No where else in the world can you get the quality of care that is available in the US. I'm not saying that it's affordable, or that there doesn't need to be some changes made to make coverage more complete and available, but I am saying that I would be disinclined to support anything resembling the US government sticking their fingers into something as important as our health.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y
    There's also been a lot of what seems like propaganda from the anti-socialized medicine gang saying the quality of socialized meds just isn't there. Can some Canuckastanians chime in on this?
    All I can remember from when I was young and running around like a little maniac in Toronto was, I was able to cruise right into a clinic when I got hurt and they'd patch me up and send me on my merry way. I was also pretty much a latch-key kid, so I'd also cruise in whenever I felt a cold or flu come on, get some meds and go home for chix soup. But not having had personal exp for anything large/serious, I'd just like those who know to confirm/deny the quality issue(s).
    **I'm now in Golden, CO and haven't been back in 20+ years which is why I'm firing this question out...but seriously thinking about a move to Vancouver once I'm done w/ my grad work**
    Not to support my position using anecdotal evidence, but seeing as that's all the rage in here, I might as well.

    A few years ago my Grandmother broke her pelvis skiing at Mont. St. Anne. Long story short, she received perhaps the most horrific care you can imagine. Ultimately she was forced to drive down to the US to receive proper care. Maybe this was an isolated incident, maybe it wasn't. All I know is that I hope I don't break my pelvis in Canada.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Do yourself a favor and take an Econ course before you make yourself look like a retard on the internet. A study of logic and rhetoric might also be beneficial, seeing as your statement is littered with fallacy.

    In case you haven't noticed, the competency of our government in regards to just about anything is undeniably dismal. You name it, they can't do it. You're seriously considering putting the quality of your healthcare in their hands?

    Comparatively speaking, Canada's healthcare system is horrendous. No where else in the world can you get the quality of care that is available in the US. I'm not saying that it's affordable, or that there doesn't need to be some changes made to make coverage more complete and available, but I am saying that I would be disinclined to support anything resembling the US government sticking their fingers into something as important as our health.
    As a "compassionate conservative" I have major issues both ways. I'm willing to err on the side of universal healthcare. I want to fix a broken (new) system that helps people, not the current pos we have now. I own my business and through costco, as I said it's almost $800 each month for 2 persons. No good.....
    "It looks flexy"

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    As a "compassionate conservative" I have major issues both ways. I'm willing to err on the side of universal healthcare. I want to fix a broken (new) system that helps people, not the current pos we have now. I own my business and through costco, as I said it's almost $800 each month for 2 persons. No good.....
    Unfortunately, I do not think you will find that this "new system" will ever manifest itself when our current government and societal values are taken into account. There are far too many serious, serious issues with the current system for us to be even considering adding another multi-trillion dollar institution to our government. I think that we need to make a serious assessment of what our government has been able to do marginally well and what it has not, and then relegate it to those things that it can do. I do not think that healthcare falls within those lines.

    In regards to the two-party system, I think George Washington said it best quite some time ago.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    look like a retard on the internet.
    nice work!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Like I said, obama did promise healthcare and completely failed. All we get is a huge fine if we don't go buy it by 2012 or 2014 or something. Gee thanks?

    It's funny, nobody cries "foul" because we are forced to get car insurance. Republican's voted in favor of that in most states. Frankly if those of us who don't have insurance or have inadequate insurance are "forced" to get into a large pool, it'll reduce our individual cost's due to economies of scale rather than buying it alone...just like working for a big company.

    Why are Big Pharma and Big Insurance and the republican's scared of that, because we'll have purchasing power and leverage as a group and they won't make as much money that way. If we all buy it separately, they can screw us all more.


    Small business owners and bike wrenches will all be better off. Not many LBS's give health insurance at all. Those that go to hospitals uninsured after a nasty wreck and can't pay for it...well you think the hospital just eat's those costs? No that's why they charge $50 for a piss pan to those of you who do have insurance. And that's why your premium's are going up 5-10% each year and the coverage is getting worse. Companies are cutting insurance or companies are changing (1) full time job to (2) part time jobs so they don't have to pay it. Your going to pay either way. It's just with our system, it's so individualized that we ALL can't rise up together and get pissed, it's too difficult....and the politicians/lobbyist/healthcare profiteers/ all love it.

    Medicine was never intended to be profited from.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Comparatively speaking, Canada's healthcare system is horrendous. No where else in the world can you get the quality of care that is available in the US. I'm not saying that it's affordable, or that there doesn't need to be some changes made to make coverage more complete and available, but I am saying that I would be disinclined to support anything resembling the US government sticking their fingers into something as important as our health.
    if i had to pay $20,000 up front for a necessary surgery i'd hope it was wicked awesome. i'm not sure what specifically is horrendous about our system but perhaps you'd like to inform me and perhaps i can inform you about your system. there are faults in each method. some provinces have more money to put towards healtchcare than others. in my city we've just done major renovations to every hospital. top notch stuff. europe has set the bar and we all file rank well below.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Comparatively speaking, Canada's healthcare system is horrendous. No where else in the world can you get the quality of care that is available in the US. I'm not saying that it's affordable, or that there doesn't need to be some changes made to make coverage more complete and available, but I am saying that I would be disinclined to support anything resembling the US government sticking their fingers into something as important as our health.
    Keep it coming. I've lived with and experienced both systems and lived in the UK. Keep on yapping about something which you probably don't know anything about. After all this is MTBR where you have license to babble.

    Now isn't this much more amusing than circle jerking to gear
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL
    Keep it coming. I've lived with and experienced both systems and lived in the UK. Keep on yapping about something which you probably don't know anything about. After all this is MTBR where you have license to babble.

    Now isn't this much more amusing than circle jerking to gear
    Well, in the early mid 90's it did triple the Canadian national debt... But I didn't keep track after that..... Is it breaking even now?
    "It looks flexy"

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    [QUOTE=dowst]
    Originally Posted by sittingduck
    We believe in "free markets" here.... Riches for the few, bankruptcy for the many!
    Profit from sickness and injury! The American way!

    Sounds accurate to me! Dead beat executives getting huge bonuses, Middle class lossing homes and jobs, and how many hospitols, or pharmacitical (sp) companies do you see failing?
    The guy yo' momma "act" like she don't know!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Well, in the early mid 90's it did triple the Canadian national debt... But I didn't keep track after that..... Is it breaking even now?
    Oh, the inhumanity! In America, we triple the debt to pay for illegal invasions, and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands, and displacement of millions. How stupid is it to spend money on the well being of your own people!

  53. #53
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    Where I live now (canadia) I haven't made much use of the medical system, but from what I've done its been pretty reasonable for the "non emergency" aspect of it.

    In NZ I put the system through its paces (lol), people always complained about the emergency wait times, speaking from my limited experience of app 6 emerg visits.

    When I went in with broken arms etc, what I would call a "not serious" injury, I sat there between 3-5hrs waiting to get in to see doc. I mean you go up, tell them you did something stupid and got a booboo on your arm, they make you sit there and ponder the result of your actions (not sure if thats really why you wait).

    Then there was this one time, I crashed my street bike, walked in as if nothing was wrong, no limp, no anything, said to the emerg lady that I crashed my motor bike a few days earlier and my neck is still pretty sore (but obviously I wasn't paralysed), I didn't even get a chance to scope out a spot in the fairly busy emerg room, she sent me straight to the xray machine.

    Moral is, no matter how "serious" you think your injury is and complain about sitting there for 5hrs, chances are the doc knows its really not that serious and they deal with the proper injuries first (I had a broken neck it turns out).

    I'm all for free market, but I don't believe mixing human greed and medicine is a good idea

  54. #54
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    This whole affair is beginning to have a certain f88 ring to it... ;-)

    I'll join the fun: I'm Swedish, I grew up partially in Cali (where my family still lives today), then spent 14 years in France, and now 5 yrs+ in Israel. I don't pretend to be an expert on this stuff, but here's a few anecdotes for y'all:

    Sweden:
    Universal healthcare (actually, back when I lived there, they attempted universal everything, but that model failed. Something about giving people a well-paid job for life, with little pressure to produce anything, and the government paying everything for everybody...apparently all the other countries got jealous and refused to keep financing the whole fiasco while Sweden proudly occupied the #1 spot in quality of life and regularly tut-tut-tutted when other countries had issues like closing all the coal mines... ).
    It's not all good: for example universal dental care for everybody means they do a crap job drilling holes in your teeth and filling em up with a mixture of various deadly heavy metals that were left over from some industrial activity (the dentist studied 7 years and now makes 2 grand per month AND has to dig around in other people's sick mouths all day, are you gonna blame HIM?). I ended up with a very nasty infected tooth/jaw about 10 years down the line, and had to pay privately in France (no universal dental care there) to get a titanium tooth put in. OK so they were out of unobtanium that day, but I still have a TI tooth byatches.

    France: universal government-provided healthcare, tiny co-payments for visting your GP (family physician in the US), tiny co-payments for prescription drugs, no payments for any kind of hospital care and procedures. And no, they can't afford it either - that system runs up a yearly debt of about 15 billion EURO over the past years...
    Hospitals look horrible, old and run down for the most part, but docs do a good job, and most healthcare indicators are right up there with the best.
    A friend of our family is going through a horrible ordeal in France at the moment - she had a major procedure carried out privately, she ended up with a bad case of MRSA, since then in a public hospital when the private provider couldn't deal with the fallout (the only competent doc was away on vacation at that time, probably playing golf).

    Israel: universal healthcare funded by taxpayer money, BUT - care is provided by 4 independent and competing healthcare funds or healthplans (each of which is funded on a per-capita basis by the government). Some of the funds actually run their own hospitals, others buy hospital care from government-run facilities for their members. Again there are some very small co-payments here and there, but nothing for major procedures. I've had broken bones, sprains, and a nasty punctured retina treated here - good quality docs, good quality equipment, no payments - that includes PT afterwards as well. This system seems to produce a pretty ideal mix of private and public healthcare...but of course, that is because the healthplans in question are not-for-profit, yet have to be competitive to hold on to their members (and to keep meeting the government-set guidelines for what constitutes acceptable care). Again, hospitals here are no hotels, but they are relatively clean and the level of care is very high. There is also an incredible amount of innovation coming out of this country with regards to medical devices, procedures, and drugs (much of which is of course driven by commercial interests...you can only get so far these days on compassion and altruistic contributions to society).
    I don't actually know how "affordable" the system here is compared to others (speaking about the overall cost of healthcare to society), but the healthcare spend as a percentage of GDP is quite low, comparatively.

    Looking at the attached graph (below), there are obviously large discrepencies around the world. The obvious worse-performing system is the US one (can't blame it ALL on McDonalds, no?). Costs a forture, and people still die too young. I'm thinking that the main reason that the system costs so much, is that so much of it is based on for-profit healthcare. If you have the same cost of most of the procedures and drugs, then how to explain such a big difference? If you do a poor job of managing it all then inefficiency will certainly waste money, but the rest has got to be going into the profit margins of the providers.
    The Japaneese do indeed seem to be onto something - maybe a samurai-like level of discipline and determination to live long and healthy? The Swiss also seem to live a long time, but that's probably from boredom.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingduck
    Oh, the inhumanity! In America, we triple the debt to pay for illegal invasions, and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands, and displacement of millions. How stupid is it to spend money on the well being of your own people!
    Maybe go read the other stuff vie written here first. I think we can do much better than Canada... If we give it a chance.
    "It looks flexy"

  56. #56
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    I have medical insurance through work

    I pay $24/mo for what would normally be a $480/mo premium
    -ROXY

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Congress is democrat majority. Hopefully you are aware of that.

    We're a little lacking on comprehension when it comes to the government huh?

    Listen to fox news, they'll explain how it works for you

    The government, and congressional activity is much more complicated than that. You'd be well served to spend a bit of time looking in to how things actually work before assuming that a simple majority gets you what you want in congress.


    As to what kept us from getting a useful national health care program, if that is not HUGELY obvious to you, there is no point talking about it as nothing will convince you.

    As to giving it a chance... we just did, and it failed. Big business has WAY TOO MUCH of a grip on congress for it to happen again any time soon. Now that spending limits & accountability have gone by the wayside as well thanks to the supreme court, this is guaranteed to get MUCH worse in the years to come.

    btw, to your earlier point, I meant more of a major medical type plan (helps only in severe instances), that type of thing can be pretty cheap (100-250 range), but yeah, a real plan is just plain obnoxious in what it costs now. Hearing about the fact that Japan is 1/5 of our costs just makes me want to puke.
    Last edited by backcountryislife; 08-18-2010 at 10:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  58. #58
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    We looked in detail at our blue cross "plan" the other day, its a small company so its easy to see whats going on.

    Basically our fees are exactly the previous years total claims +30% if the claims have increased from the previous year, however our fees do not go down if claims go down, ie if we have a lot of claims, then it goes up, then if the next year we have less it remains the same. Then if claims +30% exceed the amount we paid, the next year we can expect an appropriate increase in fees.

    Basically we a paying a 30% premium on the what we would pay if we all just paid our own medical care. The only bonus really is that the company pays for 50% of this...

    Note blue cross here just supplements the provincial health care, ie nothing crazy like $30000 repair costs, just filling prescriptions, doc visits etc.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    if i had to pay $20,000 up front for a necessary surgery i'd hope it was wicked awesome. i'm not sure what specifically is horrendous about our system but perhaps you'd like to inform me and perhaps i can inform you about your system. there are faults in each method. some provinces have more money to put towards healtchcare than others. in my city we've just done major renovations to every hospital. top notch stuff. europe has set the bar and we all file rank well below.
    Exactly my f*cking point! I have no interest in the quality of my healthcare being dictated by how much money my province has to pay for it. That sounds appealing to you? Are you kidding me? I'm sure that sounds fantastic for the people who can't afford care at all, but for those who can, no thanks.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay

    Maybe go read the other stuff vie written here first. I think we can do much better than Canada... If we give it a chance.

    Good luck with that.
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  61. #61
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    Wow this is a good read.

    A lot of people here seem to take the blinkered view that USA healthcare is the best in the world. Nothing wrong with being patriotic, but seriously, it is an international joke.

    You know how people laugh at English dental care, the USA running joke is the doctors/hospitals.

    Given the choice of being seen by a doctor in Canada, France, England or USA; USA would be the last on my list.

    There is private medical care in UK too, I always go for state.

    I am given the choice of seeing a doctor who profits if I stay sick, or a doctor who profits if they heal me. Hard choice.

    It took the best private doctors in the UK 10 years looking at my shoulders to maintain me, it took two weeks in an NHS hospital.

    Private medical care profits from keeping you sick.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  62. #62
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    Good thread
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  63. #63
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    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...roundtheworld/

    great program...

    i guess you need to 'earn' your insurance in the US. if you put aside your biased views and look at it objectively, I don't see how forcing everyone to pool into health funds like they do for social security isn't beneficial (can this particular govt do it right? who knows. but that doesn't mean the concept is wrong). I saw an interview in MA where they were interviewing this poor small business guy who was 'forced' into paying for health insurance, and he whined and whined as his diamond earrings shined on my tv monitor.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL
    Good luck with that.
    We will (do) need it.
    "It looks flexy"

  65. #65
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    Good stuff, it's nice to see that at least a few people here are paying attention.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    We're a little lacking on comprehension when it comes to the government huh?

    Listen to fox news, they'll explain how it works for you

    The government, and congressional activity is much more complicated than that. You'd be well served to spend a bit of time looking in to how things actually work before assuming that a simple majority gets you what you want in congress.


    As to what kept us from getting a useful national health care program, if that is not HUGELY obvious to you, there is no point talking about it as nothing will convince you.

    As to giving it a chance... we just did, and it failed. Big business has WAY TOO MUCH of a grip on congress for it to happen again any time soon. Now that spending limits & accountability have gone by the wayside as well thanks to the supreme court, this is guaranteed to get MUCH worse in the years to come.

    btw, to your earlier point, I meant more of a major medical type plan (helps only in severe instances), that type of thing can be pretty cheap (100-250 range), but yeah, a real plan is just plain obnoxious in what it costs now. Hearing about the fact that Japan is 1/5 of our costs just makes me want to puke.
    It's just fun to poke back. Of course it's "politics" and it's not as easy as just having a majority to push things through. I will say that if there ever was a time to do it, that was it. I think the time-space-opportunity window has closed.
    "It looks flexy"

  67. #67
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    Quote from a german private health insurance company for long term travellers health insurance cover:

    1) Cover for people travelling to any country excluding the USA: 27.85 Euros/month
    2) Cover for people travelling to the USA: 87 Euros/month

    Policy otherwise identical. What does that tell us about cost of healthcare in the US?


    I just got private health insurance cover for myself for Australia, including hospital, limited dental etc. - 83.35 AUD per month, that's without any government rebate.

    For Australian citizens (which I am not), there's the governments MediCare, which seems to work allright.

    Maybe the cost of healthcare in the US would come down if people would stop sueing doctors all the time, oh well.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I think the time-space-opportunity window has closed.
    And in my mind, that is a very sad thing.

    It's unfortunate the way things work when we have the "freedom" (to be controlled by big business) that we have here in the states.

    It just keeps getting worse & worse as well. With the few recent decisions that many people don't know anything about, or have no idea how important they are even if they do, it is going to get much worse yet again as business buys more & more judicial seats to get the decisions that they want in addition to the laws that already pander to them. (btw, I'm not a hardcore lefty)
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  69. #69
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    The system that treats us is also the same system that profits if we stay sick. The people who make the laws to give us a health care system are also the same people in bed with the people treating our illnesses for profits.

    I'm never ceased to be amazed at this common knowledge. Yet you hardly hear people expressing their outrage about it. It's as if the media doesn't even want to acknowledge it. I guess with our short attention span and media dependent, Americans don't even know the basic workings of our government and social infrastructures anymore.

    I wonder if there's a concerted effort by the elites to keep the mass as confused as possible?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by chauzie
    The system that treats us is also the same system that profits if we stay sick. The people who make the laws to give us a health care system are also the same people in bed with the people treating our illnesses for profits.

    I'm never ceased to be amazed at this common knowledge. Yet you hardly hear people expressing their outrage about it. It's as if the media doesn't even want to acknowledge it. I guess with our short attention span and media dependent, Americans don't even know the basic workings of our government and social infrastructures anymore.

    I wonder if there's a concerted effort by the elites to keep the mass as confused as possible?
    I'm a little buzzed right now, but it's because the liberals are a bunch of fakes. I want a REAL solution that includes universal healthcare for every US citizen - the same awesome care for each person. I'm sorry, but Canada isn't even doing it right... with different levels of service (LOS) in each prov? I think we wasted our best chance. Maybe we can still do it sometime in the future, but this was a golden opportunity.
    "It looks flexy"

  71. #71
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    But if you wanted health care for all, you're complaining about the wrong party .

    With all the wilderness BS they're trying to push through around here , I can bet you that the dems won't have a majority for long (I hope) but when they did, we allowed the morons on the right to stop the morons on the left from actually doing something.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I'm a little buzzed right now, but it's because the liberals are a bunch of fakes. I want a REAL solution that includes universal healthcare for every US citizen - the same awesome care for each person. I'm sorry, but Canada isn't even doing it right... with different levels of service (LOS) in each prov? I think we wasted our best chance. Maybe we can still do it sometime in the future, but this was a golden opportunity.
    Canada has a fairly unique issue.

    It is the second largest country in the world by area (next to russia), with a population of app 30m (ie one city in China).

    So the issue Canada faces is that it needs to maintain a huge amount of infrastructure spread over a massive area that has to be supported by 1/10th the tax base of the USA.

    Its not that the system doesn't work, its just that Canada has its funds spread pretty thin.

  73. #73
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    Am I the only one who has recieved medical care in both Canada and America found the care in Canada to be better?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  74. #74
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    We're a very unhealthy people in many ways, and in many ways this is because businesses have an interest in keeping it that way. I don't mean in an illuminati type of way, but in a consumer creation type of way.

    Cheap foods maximize profit for the large growers/producers, but they are terrible for you from a health perspective. The government doesn't regulate the large food companies, in fact they are in bed with them. The regulating bodies are made up of former food company execs at the upper levels. No conflict of interest there. So we end up with food that harms our health.

    Education about health and wellness is pathetic at best in our public school systems. You might have a health class in middle school that doesn't properly cover nutrition and exercise but the same schools serve the kids fries, tater tots, pizza and anything else that is cheap and easy to fix. Again, profit (or budget in this case) over health. We pay lip service to providing good things for the kids via government but don't deliver due to $$.

    After school, our society values work work work so you can buy buy buy. Health and wellness takes a back seat to obsession with possessions. People bust their asses, often sacrificing physical and mental well being, for the next nicer car, house, boat, mountain bike or whatever. Overworked people only want to spend their off hours on mindless entertainment, not what is going on in the world or their country.

    Finally, to get back to the topic at hand. The typical fat, over stressed, under exercised American citizen develops health problems due to their unhealthy lifestyle and goes to the doctor. 9 times out of 10 the doctor will treat the symptom with bandaid care, drug prescription and continued visits. Very rarely you'll run into a doctor that DOESN'T want to see you back, but this is how it should be. Yes, they want you coming back for profit even if most doctors do want people to get well.

    The problem is holistic, and the blame lies not only with big business, government and such but also with us as individuals. We like to point fingers at these organization and rightly so. But we've bought into this system, we perpetuate it or go along with it because it is easier to do so. Consumers have the ability to force change in these systems, but it take mass choices that go against the current grain. I don't see a lot of that going on, and I'm afraid we'll continue to go down the path we're on.

    Quote Originally Posted by chauzie
    The system that treats us is also the same system that profits if we stay sick. The people who make the laws to give us a health care system are also the same people in bed with the people treating our illnesses for profits.

    I'm never ceased to be amazed at this common knowledge. Yet you hardly hear people expressing their outrage about it. It's as if the media doesn't even want to acknowledge it. I guess with our short attention span and media dependent, Americans don't even know the basic workings of our government and social infrastructures anymore.

    I wonder if there's a concerted effort by the elites to keep the mass as confused as possible?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    We're a very unhealthy people in many ways, and in many ways this is because businesses have an interest in keeping it that way. I don't mean in an illuminati type of way, but in a consumer creation type of way.

    Cheap foods maximize profit for the large growers/producers, but they are terrible for you from a health perspective. The government doesn't regulate the large food companies, in fact they are in bed with them. The regulating bodies are made up of former food company execs at the upper levels. No conflict of interest there. So we end up with food that harms our health.

    Education about health and wellness is pathetic at best in our public school systems. You might have a health class in middle school that doesn't properly cover nutrition and exercise but the same schools serve the kids fries, tater tots, pizza and anything else that is cheap and easy to fix. Again, profit (or budget in this case) over health. We pay lip service to providing good things for the kids via government but don't deliver due to $$.

    After school, our society values work work work so you can buy buy buy. Health and wellness takes a back seat to obsession with possessions. People bust their asses, often sacrificing physical and mental well being, for the next nicer car, house, boat, mountain bike or whatever. Overworked people only want to spend their off hours on mindless entertainment, not what is going on in the world or their country.

    Finally, to get back to the topic at hand. The typical fat, over stressed, under exercised American citizen develops health problems due to their unhealthy lifestyle and goes to the doctor. 9 times out of 10 the doctor will treat the symptom with bandaid care, drug prescription and continued visits. Very rarely you'll run into a doctor that DOESN'T want to see you back, but this is how it should be. Yes, they want you coming back for profit even if most doctors do want people to get well.

    The problem is holistic, and the blame lies not only with big business, government and such but also with us as individuals. We like to point fingers at these organization and rightly so. But we've bought into this system, we perpetuate it or go along with it because it is easier to do so. Consumers have the ability to force change in these systems, but it take mass choices that go against the current grain. I don't see a lot of that going on, and I'm afraid we'll continue to go down the path we're on.

    Quoted for absolute truth!
    We are what we eat...

  76. #76
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    My dad works for the Iranian Oil CO. and because im the only child ( no bros $ sis) it covers me too....totally free......

    By the way thanks a lot Big slacker your answer gave me a total vision ...usually people living in countries like mine Iran. have a optimistic image of a western life....imagining every thing beautiful and good......

    in fact even me myself some times think riding is a lot better and more professional in such countries.....

    but you realized me that actually its not that much.....even big riders and MTB events and all the riding related things are now controlled by the business too right ?

    think we are still in the good old days of your MTB scene in the US but using 2010 bikes and rigs also i have plenty of trails accessible with no need of vehicle ......
    Last edited by Iranian-Mechanic; 08-19-2010 at 03:34 PM.

  77. #77
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    broke wrist...60,000 dollars
    ruptured spleen (7 days in hospital) 600,000

    insurance covered all but 3500
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by essenmeinstuff
    Canada has a fairly unique issue.

    It is the second largest country in the world by area (next to russia), with a population of app 30m (ie one city in China).

    So the issue Canada faces is that it needs to maintain a huge amount of infrastructure spread over a massive area that has to be supported by 1/10th the tax base of the USA.

    Its not that the system doesn't work, its just that Canada has its funds spread pretty thin.
    not to mention that the province of ontario has over 1/3 the entire population of canada and the majority of those people are in the southern part. talk about spreading it thin.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    broke wrist...60,000 dollars
    ruptured spleen (7 days in hospital) 600,000

    insurance covered all but 3500

    60,000 to fix a wrist, who the **** do they think they are?!

    What kind of break?, are we talking multiple compound spiral fractures, torn tendons that needed stiching, years of physio?

    Or are we talking a simple break?

    That $3500 probably paid for the total medical bill on the wrist, the rest was profit.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    broke wrist...60,000 dollars
    ruptured spleen (7 days in hospital) 600,000

    insurance covered all but 3500
    Thats probably part of the reason the system is so broken... there is a serious customer/payee disconnect there!

    Patient pays insurance, hospital bills insurance for medical bill and since its insurance they inflate the bill, then a while later insurance jacks up the cost to the patient and it goes round and round.

    Then some poor sap that doesn't have insurance gets hit with 600k bill if something happens because that has become the accepted norm...

    Seen it here with car stuff, someone ran into my parked car, took it to a panel shop to get a quote, $1600+tax, they asked who was paying, I said insurance. When I picked the vehicle up the bill was a little over $2400+tax. I asked him what the deal was, he just said not to worry since insurance is picking up the bill and if it didn't got through I'd still get charged the the quoted $1600... which is why my insurance here costs me 2k/yr no collision on a car worth maybe $4k... fuggin daylight robbery if you ask me.

  81. #81
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    Another issue is you have a ton of uninsured coming in, getting "patched up" not paying their bill, and total costs going up for those that do pay. A person that comes into the emergency room spewing blood doesn't get turned down because they don't have medical insurance.
    "It looks flexy"

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Another issue is you have a ton of uninsured coming in, getting "patched up" not paying their bill, and total costs going up for those that do pay. A person that comes into the emergency room spewing blood doesn't get turned down because they don't have medical insurance.
    100% correct!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Another issue is you have a ton of uninsured coming in, getting "patched up" not paying their bill, and total costs going up for those that do pay. A person that comes into the emergency room spewing blood doesn't get turned down because they don't have medical insurance.
    So you'd prefer to just let people die if they don't have insurance?

    Funny, but can you imagine having to prove that you have insurance while your jugular vein is spewing blood all over the place like a Monty Python skit? Or maybe you're unconscious and your friends are trying to figure out where you keep that insurance card. Oops. Never mind, he's dead already. Just throw him in the dumpster.

  84. #84
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    Doctors...the #1 scam artists..

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    So you'd prefer to just let people die if they don't have insurance?

    Funny, but can you imagine having to prove that you have insurance while your jugular vein is spewing blood all over the place like a Monty Python skit? Or maybe you're unconscious and your friends are trying to figure out where you keep that insurance card. Oops. Never mind, he's dead already. Just throw him in the dumpster.
    I don't know where you made that weird logic up from what I said. Why would I prefer that? Where did I hint at that? We were discussing some of the reasons it costs so much - and I was saying that we already have the "payers" paying for the "non payers" and that increases the cost for the "payers". I think people not from the US think that our system turns away people for emergency service and it does not. That was my point.
    "It looks flexy"

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I don't know where you made that weird logic up from what I said. Why would I prefer that? Where did I hint at that? We were discussing some of the reasons it costs so much - and I was saying that we already have the "payers" paying for the "non payers" and that increases the cost for the "payers". I think people not from the US think that our system turns away people for emergency service and it does not. That was my point.
    Sorry I am with Thor on this.

    The money is going into profit, nowhere else.

    I worked in insurance, I know the margins we made.

    When I go into a hospital in France I get a bill, my government pays it, but at least it gives me the idea of how much this stuff costs.

    Trust me, everyone is taking the piss at every stage in USA healthcare.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    broke wrist...60,000 dollars
    ruptured spleen (7 days in hospital) 600,000

    insurance covered all but 3500
    i see that cost being outrageously out of touch with actual costs. am i to believe that my country has no issue with giving me $660,000 worth of healthcare for no cost? if it really cost that much, there would be hefty costs passed down to us.

  88. #88
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    As a student I'm required to have health insurance. Currently, I'm paying $53/month for $30 co-pays, with a $5k deductible. It's not the best, but it covers my ass and doesn't kill my bank account.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Well I live in the UK so when I crash, I go to a hospital.
    Lets take my wife's recent crash as an example.

    She slipped on some grass and hit her head pretty hard a mile from the nearest road.
    A doctor was on scene in about 10 minutes (sent from nearest village).
    A helicopter arrived in 20 and took her straight to the nearest city with a specialist head injuries clinic. She was seen my a specialist immediately, they did an MRI which thankfully came up clear. She was then booked in for follow up care in a hospital near where we live.
    I arrived in the car a couple of hours later ('copter can fly a hell of a lot faster than I can drive), picked her up and took home.

    Total expense to me including deductible = 0.

    If I was on income support, they would have paid for my transport.


    Gosh, it is so hard being in a country with government run healthcare.
    Just imagine what would happen if the Government had control, it would be like the fire service, the police or the army ;-)
    lol i agree mate. though i must add, it isnt actually free as in free of charge though. we do pay for it via our national insurance payments every month.
    also just wanted to say that the air ambulance has nothing to do with the government or hospitals, it's a complete self funded charity organisation, mostly run by volunteers. (so i hope you made a charitable donation after using their service lol) just like mountain rescue to.
    as you say for those that are on welfare they get to claim everything for free, even the cost of transport getting to and from hospital. it's a bloody joke.(dont get me started on that lol)
    i suppose you would recieve much better service through a private hospital.
    though credit where it's due the nhs does a fantastic job with the limited resources that it has, if only our government would put the same amount of cash into this as they do dropping bombs on oil rich eastern countries then we would have the best service in the world lol.

  90. #90
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    i like the buy as you need or want type system (supply and demand) i guess for the modern world it seems to be best i don't know

    i do know there are good and bad doctors

    i also know that insurance would cost me a lot more per year than just paying market equilibrium price for my needs and wants in capitalism economy type systen

    this is me

    (a healty individual that eats healthy, exercises and takes a little risk possible)

    so long as no serious medial issue then health care cost me no more than 40 bucks twice a year for dentist cleaning

    if minor to moderate injury still is less based on market equilibrium in overall cost

    recent injury fractured middle and ring finger on of course the dang mountain bike

    cost me 150 at urgent care for xrays and consultation from doc who would have set if necc (probably would have increased cost) but wasn't necc so just splinted and sent on way

    cost me another 70 each for say 2 to 4 follow up doc visits and 35 for new xray each visit

    total for two non displaced fractures approx 500 or so in one year and say 5 previous years no serious injury otherwise healthy (following healthy lifestyle) so no doc visits or expenses

    years earlier was on insurance plan through employer (contract worker now) insurance cost me about 60 or so a month 70 i had injury then too fractured meta in foot plus laceration that required stitches on motorbike cost by a few co pays maybe so in one year thats approx 700 and over 5 years that's now 3gs opposed to still only 500 above

    of course if i was to have serious health problems or moderate to severe injury cash cost could be much more than few hundos maybe a few gs even but if that is one time only and with healthy lifestyle likely avoidable it should be less than insurance co taking monthly premium

    there in lies some questions what about health care for those that do unhealthy things like smoke or drink what about health care for those who did nothing to increase risk of health issue and are faced with it anyway

    whole thing is a big mess thats another reason i think just turn it over to the market let the market decide

    there is mos def signs of "racketeering" in the american insurance industry

    ps i probably should have taken the time to type this a little better but them fingers is broken now still
    Last edited by phxKokopelli; 08-22-2010 at 04:52 PM.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    The health insurance in the US is embarrassing. However public health insurance comes with its own set of problems (tax rates, administrative overhead, scaling problems with a country the size of the US) which makes it a less than simple thing to just roll out even assuming you could get it done properly with our political morass.

    My wife is a dual citizen and we will certainly hit up the EU if anything expensive and non-emergency is needed. The plane ticket is much cheaper. Sad state of affairs for our country.

    I do have health insurance, $400 a month for 2 people. We're covered well in most cases but its a PITA dealing with the carrier.
    You might want to watch that, they have changed the rules in the UK at least , you have to show some sort of recent residency evidence now even if you are an ex-pat.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirian
    lol i agree mate. though i must add, it isnt actually free as in free of charge though. we do pay for it via our national insurance payments every month.

    True, always wondered how much of that goes to NHS.

    also just wanted to say that the air ambulance has nothing to do with the government or hospitals, it's a complete self funded charity organisation, mostly run by volunteers. (so i hope you made a charitable donation after using their service lol) just like mountain rescue to.

    Fair point, but still free. I often buy the mountain rescue guys beer and curry. Air ambulance has major sponsors, my pittance would not scratch the surface

    as you say for those that are on welfare they get to claim everything for free, even the cost of transport getting to and from hospital. it's a bloody joke.(dont get me started on that lol)

    Never been in the situation to try it, so no idea

    i suppose you would recieve much better service through a private hospital.

    That is what they want you to think. I used to get VERY good cover through work and got to see some of the best specialists in the country, even got to see a few doctors down Harley St. They spent YEARS doing lots of investigations trying to work out the issue and giving me stronger and stronger drugs until on fentanyl to cover the pain (stronger than heroine). Went to the NHS when insurance ran out. They saw me once, told me what was wrong. Within 2 weeks I went from being so medicated I hallucinated to painkiller free. Medical insurance peeps are bastards in every country. Keeping you sick pays for their ferarris. Don't trust them. so to reiterate it took 10 years for private care to make me a drug addict and be in 24/7 pain where I would wake up screaming in my sleep, NHS fixed me in two weeks. I do have to say, Fentanyl is one of the reasons I am so fit, you work out hard when you can feel no pain.

    though credit where it's due the nhs does a fantastic job with the limited resources that it has, if only our government would put the same amount of cash into this as they do dropping bombs on oil rich eastern countries then we would have the best service in the world lol



    .
    It is fashionable to rip it out of the NHS, but try a few different countries medical care, especially the infamous USA crap, then realise that what the NHS does is pretty dam good.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  93. #93
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    So you'd prefer to just let people die if they don't have insurance?
    Can you show me where in the U.S. Constitution you are promised the "right" to medical care?

    The Annointed One seems to think it's in there somewhere, but I sure can't find it.

    Nothing is free. Socialized medical care doesn't magically make money sprout on trees to pay for the medical needs of it's citizens (or it's subjects if you are from Canada, the UK, Australia, etc).

    The money to pay for all that stuff comes from fleecing the taxpayers. And since the government can't run anything without flushing obscene amounts of the taxpayers money down the toilet, it's only going to get more expensive if we let The Messiah run it with our money.

  95. #95
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    Ambulance chasers, who's sworn duty it is to protect us from others of their kind, certainly have a significant role in making medical care more expensive for all of us, as the expenses of three million dollar spilled cup of coffee settlements are simply passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.

    Limiting lawsuits is not the answer. Better judgement by judges and juries is.

    Insurance fraud also drives up costs. Fraudsters should be jailed.

    And the unhealthy relationship between insurance companies and medical providers (at the exclusion of the patient) should be severed. If you have insurance that pays 90% and the medical provider jacks the price of a $500 job up to $5,000 just because you have insurance, you're still paying $500. Plus you're also paying for your insurance.

    And nobody gets medical insurance for free form their employer. You're paying for it in the form of lower wages.

  96. #96
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    market equilibrium is the answer - insurance is a racket

  97. #97
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    "insurance is a racket'

    understatement of the century
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  98. #98
    RIS
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    Then stop buying insurance.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Then stop buying insurance.
    simple minds draw simple conclusions.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

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