Deemax compliance: why?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Deemax compliance: why?

    So why is it that people spend thousands of dollars on having a very stiff fork and frame, but then Maxxis tries to market the Deemaxes compliance as a benefit. Is there some hidden advantage to flex in your wheels? I thought that was what the 8"+ of suspension DH bikes had was for. This just came to mind after looking around at different wheels and such. Thanks for the info guys.
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  2. #2
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    I always thought that the reason why wheels (or more appropriately rims) like DT Swiss were flexy and considered soft was due to the flex needed to avoid flatting or cracking a rim. If I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me as I run Transition Revolution32s and I have no problems with weak wheels.

  3. #3
    gnar, brah
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    First, Mavic makes the Deemax, not Maxxis. I have no idea of what "compliant" means in this case, but Mavic's prebuilt wheels are known for being relatively stiff. Stiff wheels are good. I don't know why anyone would want flexy wheels...

    DT Swiss wheels use a softer alloy so they pinch flat less, thus denting more easily. I don't think that effects overall wheel stiffness.
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  4. #4
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    http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/deemax.996194.1.aspx
    "Lighter and more compliant means faster" sorry for the typo, but that doesn't change the fact that mavic praises this wheel set for its apparent lack of stiffness. compliant means not stiff, in case you didn't know.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by b4 stealth
    http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/deemax.996194.1.aspx
    "Lighter and more compliant means faster" sorry for the typo, but that doesn't change the fact that mavic praises this wheel set for its apparent lack of stiffness. compliant means not stiff, in case you didn't know.
    In general, compliant means conforming to a specification or policy, standard or law that has been clearly defined.

    so the vertical compliance meams it meets the standard in wheel vertically.....not less strong

    so your statement "Lighter and more compliant means faster"....means a lighter rim but still as strong as the standard wheel strength (enlish comp 101)
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  6. #6
    Its got what plants crave
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    I've heard a lot of complaints about Deemaxs but never in regards to stiffness. The 823 is pretty much the gold standard for tubeless big hit rims.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    I've heard a lot of complaints about Deemaxs but never in regards to stiffness. The 823 is pretty much the gold standard for tubeless big hit rims.
    The DeeMax's use the 823 hoops my friend

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    I've heard a lot of complaints about Deemaxs but never in regards to stiffness. The 823 is pretty much the gold standard for tubeless big hit rims.
    people complain about hubs not rims......rims are the same as the 823
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  9. #9
    Its got what plants crave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamatt
    The DeeMax's use the 823 hoops my friend

    Which is exactly what I was saying. People bich about the hubs, but definitely not about the rims.

  10. #10
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    Mavic rims = good
    Mavic hubs = bad

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    people complain about hubs not rims......rims are the same as the 823
    ....with only 28 spokes.
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  12. #12
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    I'm pretty sure the new rims are not the same as the 823, there is a lot of machining on the new Deemax which doesn't carry over to the 823 (could be wrong about that though). The hubs are also a new design with increased engagement. Overall the new Deemax looks like a solid wheelset; light and strong with improved hubs, but a lil pricey.

  13. #13
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    The new ones aren't using 823 hoops as pinknugget said, (they lost weight on the rim and its 28 spoke now, so even if its tubeless its still a different setup.)

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  14. #14
    Its got what plants crave
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    I saw an article on Bike Mag's website about the internals of the new Mavic hubs and it looks pretty solid. Similar design to some of the other high end hubs out there.

  15. #15
    Ricky DH
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    Next year (09's) the front wheel will have 28 spokes, and the rear will have 32.

  16. #16
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    ah, thanks SMT, that makes sense. I was reading it like how some people say compliant as in steel frames have more compliance. sorry for the misunderstanding every one.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by b4 stealth
    ah, thanks SMT, that makes sense. I was reading it like how some people say compliant as in steel frames have more compliance. sorry for the misunderstanding every one.
    Thats exactly how it was intended to be read. The wheels are supposed to have more give without sacrificing strength, like a steel frame.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    so the vertical compliance meams it meets the standard in wheel vertically.....not less strong... (enlish comp 101)
    Um, two things:

    a) That's not what they meant.

    b) enlish comp 101?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian
    Um, two things:

    a) That's not what they meant.

    b) enlish comp 101?

    LOL, Engrish preeze SMT?

  20. #20
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    So chatting to the Mavic rep the other day, and he didn't have a clue about what they were jabbering on about in the catalog. He tried to cover it up, but i've been around for a while and i know the **** you come out with when you are trying to cover a knowledge gap.

    Closest i could figure, (based on what he was saying about the R Sys wheels) lower overall spoke tension makes for a wheel that can deflect (comply) around stuff instead of being so stiff that you lose momentum because it can only go OVER the obstacle. We are not talking curb size obstacles here, we are talking general trail debris, so a degree of compliance would be good.

    Lower spoke tension = less stress on the wheel, same strengh = you will never notice the difference.
    More spokes = less stress on indivdual spokes = less tension = maybe where they got the "compliance" idea from.

    But really i think it is all down to the crappy French language and crappy translation. They were looking for something snappy and sound bite ish to describe something which is deeper than the line that they used.
    Nothing good here.

  21. #21
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    Ride more!

  22. #22
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    Lately I've been reading lots about wheels and wheelbuilding in general. I Must say I have no idea what "Compliance" means regarding wheels..

    but...

    Quote Originally Posted by nouseforaname
    Lower spoke tension = less stress on the wheel, same strengh = you will never notice the difference.
    More spokes = less stress on indivdual spokes = less tension = maybe where they got the "compliance" idea from.
    You are very wrong my friend. Lower spoke tension will cause different tension on independent spokes and therefore an out of true wheel (laterally and probably radially as well.) Will there be less stress on the wheel? maybe, but will it be stronger? DEFINITELY NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by nouseforaname
    We are not talking curb size obstacles here, we are talking general trail debris, so a degree of compliance would be good.
    a degree of "comliance" on a wheel will still cause the wheel to loose lateral trueness.

    You said before, "You will never notice the difference." You are wrong my friend, you will very much feel the difference, and an out-of-true wheel, i.e. in a race, will definitely give you a more than crappy ride.
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  23. #23
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    I have to chalk this one up as a poor translation into English.

    Compliant as in steel frame is not something you want in a wheel. Especially a DH wheel. No way. IMO, the only place you want compliance is in your tires and suspension.

    But then I read (via pinkbike) that Rockshock decided 40mm stantions were "too stiff" for the new Boxxer, and went with 35mm instead. They said too stiff of a fork will deflect off of rocks.

    I dunno... that seems like BS / Marketing to me. Does anyone out there really think their fork is too stiff laterally or fore/aft? I've never heard that compliant before - always the opposite!

    But I will say the 823 is a badass rim, regardless of what compliance is supposed to mean in relation to wheels.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by albertomannil
    What you said, about what i said
    OK, you have read the wheelbuilding books, so i will let you have the win.

    What i was trying to do was explain what the Mavic rep was telling me was the reason for the "compliance" claim.
    I couldn't care less what Mavic claims, or even whether it is right or not. I'll keep rocking my DT Swiss hubs and whatever rim i can find. Prebuilt wheels by definiton need something "extra" to sell them, and that's all this is.
    I destroyed my one and only set of Deemaxes in about 3 1/2 weeks, and will never have a prebuilt wheel since.
    Nothing good here.

  25. #25
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    I have a set of 08 deemax wheels. They are more forgiving than other wheels over bumps and let you carry more speed through stuff. I was running 36 hole Arrow DHX rims on my hardtail for a while (super duper strong), but switched the wheels out for my Deemax for a few weeks and the difference was surreal. Super stiff wheels may be stronger, but they do make for a really harsh ride and BAD handling. I didn't really notice this until i swapped my wheels out and noticed the difference. I do suppose this is much more noticeable on a hardtail...

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