Coiler brake jack- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Coiler brake jack

    I've been looking into the Kona Coiler and have heard mostly good things about it, but I'm starting to hear about a problem it might have with brake jacking. Is this true?

  2. #2
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    I've got an '04 coiler and it, like most single pivot designs, stiffens up during braking. I know Kona are producing a floating brake arm for some of their frames in '07, so maybe look at the new designs?

    The coiler is a nice ride though!

  3. #3
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    All single pivot and faux-bar bikes that are not equipped with a floater will suffer from brake jack. Unless you're racing pure DH, it really doesn't matter. It never bothered me much. And if you are purely DHing, I'd be looking at a different bike.

  4. #4
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    i agree with all posts above. the single pivot design (like pretty much all) on my 06 coiler does suffer from some brake jack. i dont dh race so it doesnt bother me that much. i freeride and have no major complaints about the brake jack. so id say if your gonna dh race maybe consider another bike....but for freeriding (and mostly any other riding style)...the single pivot design on the coiler is sufficietnt. I have had my coiler for 8 months now and have zero major complaints so far.
    om me if you need more info

  5. #5
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    ^^ thats PM me....not OM me...
    my b

  6. #6
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    I have a KHS FR2000 which like the Coiler has a FAUX bar suspension. I was able to reduce the brake jack by playing with the SPV volume and high speed compression settings of my Swinger 6 way. It would still stiffen, but the adjusted SPV volume and high speed compression gives it the extra travel just in case I encounter multiple hits while I'm on the rear brakes. This also means that you have to be judicious with the rear brakes; which means that you only apply the brakes when the surface is not too rough.
    DH:Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 w/ 888R
    FR:Marin Quake w/ 888RC
    AM:BMC Superstroke 01 w/ 66RC2X

  7. #7
    Meh.
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    You can always do a floater.

  8. #8
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    Why all the hate on slight brake jack?

    A good rider doesn't have to brake on the choppy stuff, they can control their speed with off pace pumping and turning, then hit the brakes in the smoother sections.

    Plus, on the North Shore style of riding, it's nice to have the rear end drop a little when going down something steep.

  9. #9
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    Cue shameless FSR whoring from SMT:
    805

  10. #10
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    I owned one for about 3 months, and sold it. the rear end totally stiffens up under braking to the extent that you get alot of chatter, forget about control braking through turns, this bike needs to brake in a straight line, AND be completely neutral in a turn. Personally I really like my specialized Enduro expert. Its WAY better than the coiler.

    I'd consider an ironhorse 6-point or a transition preston over the coiler.
    "What would happen to the Weather Channel's ratings if people werent scared anymore?"

  11. #11
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    Well, I'm a little confused because some folks are saying that the brake squat (jack) is not much of a concern and others are saying it is. I'm about to pull the trigger on a used Coiler, but I won't until I have a better understanding of what I might be getting into.
    Where does one get a hold of those "floaters" (floating brake arm kits)? Cost??

  12. #12
    Meh.
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    Don't let it concern you. Buy it and ride it. It's a great bike, very versatile.

  13. #13
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    yea, it will be a great bike, just learn to use the front brake and rear brake together in moderation.
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    -unknown genius

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    Cue shameless FSR whoring from SMT:
    It's VPP now.... Jeez, get it straight...
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  15. #15
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    I have a Giant AC and got in touch with Brake Therapy. I got the floater from them and it kicks ass. You dont realize how much the rear end stiffens until it doesn't anymore. I would recommend it to anyone.
    Last of The Allaire Bastards

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Don't let it concern you. Buy it and ride it. It's a great bike, very versatile.
    Agreed!

    To everyone else:

    If brake jack was such a horrible thing, then why do so many pro DH riders use single pivots? Hell, even the VPP bikes suffer from brake jack deep in their travel.

    A good rider won't brake in choppy stuff anyway. It ruins momentum, which is the best thing to have when going through the chop.

    Also, check out the Turner forum. Turners went from a FSR design to single pivot (same as Kona's).
    Only about .01% of them can tell a difference in the two designs under braking. These are also very experienced and knowledgable riders, not the typical Teens you find in the DH/FR, who spout marketing crap right and left.

    Hell, even some of the guys switched over to the single pivot by replacing the rear end. No toher parts replaced, and they can still tell no difference.

    Bottom Line?

    Geometry and parts make more of a difference than anything. A single pivot with a high end shock like a DHX 5 and high end tires like nevegal stick-e will be every bit as capable as an FSR.

    On top of that, it takes a lot of extra metal to make an FSR as stiff as a 4bar single pivot. Stiff FSRs are usually over weight, like Knollys and Norcos. A 4bar Single pivot can be just as strong and stiff with over 1 pound less in frame weight.

    Also, in my own experience, single pivots tend to have a smoother axle path when hitting sharp high speed bumps.
    Last edited by MudMuncher; 12-24-2006 at 05:25 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudMuncher
    Agreed!

    To everyone else:

    If brake jack was such a horrible thing, then why do so many pro DH riders use single pivots? Hell, even the VPP bikes suffer from brake jack deep in their travel.

    A good rider won't brake in choppy stuff anyway. It ruins momentum, which is the best thing to have when going through the chop.

    Also, check out the Turner forum. Turners went from a FSR design to single pivot (same as Kona's).
    Only about .01% of them can tell a difference in the two designs under braking. These are also very experienced and knowledgable riders, not the typical Teens you find in the DH/FR, who spout marketing crap right and left.

    Hell, even some of the guys switched over to the single pivot by replacing the rear end. No toher parts replaced, and they can still tell no difference.

    Bottom Line?

    Geometry and parts make more of a difference than anything. A single pivot with a high end shock like a DHX 5 and high end tires like nevegal stick-e will be every bit as capable as an FSR.

    On top of that, it takes a lot of extra metal to make an FSR as stiff as a 4bar single pivot. Stiff FSRs are usually over weight, like Knollys and Norcos. A 4bar Single pivot can be just as strong and stiff with over 1 pound less in frame weight.

    Also, in my own experience, single pivots tend to have a smoother axle path when hitting sharp high speed bumps.
    Agree.

    It's a lot of marketing hype. Same with axle paths. Yes, it may make a difference. Will most people notice? Probably not... HL rear ends do tend to be flexy. It's inherent to the design. That's not to say that there aren't stiff HL bikes.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    Cue shameless FSR whoring from SMT:
    if it works then you stay with it
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  19. #19
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    2 words

    brake therapy
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudMuncher
    Agreed!

    To everyone else:

    If brake jack was such a horrible thing, then why do so many pro DH riders use single pivots? Hell, even the VPP bikes suffer from brake jack deep in their travel.
    this has got to be the most widely used retarded reasoning for justifying the legitemacy of anything. OH a Pro uses it therefore it must be the best.

    the fact is many pro DH riders use single pivots for many reasons.... like:
    a) they're given the bike for free.
    b) they're paid to ride it
    c) it doesnt matter what they ride, they'll smoke you and most of the competition on a pacific if they had to.

    A good rider won't brake in choppy stuff anyway. It ruins momentum, which is the best thing to have when going through the chop.
    and? Does claiming to be an expert rider that simply is too good to ride anything else besides a single pivot cause you need a challenge, mean something special to you? Hey guess what I dont need your single pivot suspension bike, Im too good for that, I'll just roll on my steel huffy yo, plastic break levers, threaded headset, rigid fork, cause man Im just THAT good, I dont need none of your bells and whistles.

    Also, check out the Turner forum. Turners went from a FSR design to single pivot (same as Kona's).
    yah cause ellsworth and specialized will always want their money for the use of their pattented designs. Im sure dave being dave, wanted to capitalize on a bigger chunk of his already overpriced bike line up... and since he's got a legion of blind deep pocketed bling blingers to keep buying his bikes no matter what.. hell I'd tell ellsworth and specialized to go take a hike too.

    Only about .01% of them can tell a difference in the two designs under braking. These are also very experienced and knowledgable riders, not the typical Teens you find in the DH/FR, who spout marketing crap right and left.
    Its nice of you to pull numbers out your ass and to put words in all their mouhts... but it's apparent you're obviously one of these ignorant kids you're attempting to bash on. Brake jack is NOT that hard to point out. I guess if you'd ridden other bikes and experienced what a bike WITHOUT brake jack feels like, you'd have a different oppinion.

    Hell, even some of the guys switched over to the single pivot by replacing the rear end. No toher parts replaced, and they can still tell no difference.
    who exactly ?

    On top of that, it takes a lot of extra metal to make an FSR as stiff as a 4bar single pivot. Stiff FSRs are usually over weight, like Knollys and Norcos. A 4bar Single pivot can be just as strong and stiff with over 1 pound less in frame weight.
    looks like we have a physics AND Engineering major on our hands guys. Are you capable of talking out your mouth? seems everyting to this point has been coming out your ass.

    Also, in my own experience, single pivots tend to have a smoother axle path when hitting sharp high speed bumps.
    that's got absolutely nothing to do with it being a single pivot design. Now I got nothing against single pivots, but every single argument you've made so far, is so incredibly rediculous.
    "What would happen to the Weather Channel's ratings if people werent scared anymore?"

  21. #21
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    Quote:
    Also, check out the Turner forum. Turners went from a FSR design to single pivot (same as Kona's).

    yah cause ellsworth and specialized will always want their money for the use of their pattented designs. Im sure dave being dave, wanted to capitalize on a bigger chunk of his already overpriced bike line up... and since he's got a legion of blind deep pocketed bling blingers to keep buying his bikes no matter what.. hell I'd tell ellsworth and specialized to go take a hike too.


    oh yeah......Dave didn't want to pay the royalties......but the FSR Turners were better

    On top of that, it takes a lot of extra metal to make an FSR as stiff as a 4bar single pivot. Stiff FSRs are usually over weight, like Knollys and Norcos. A 4bar Single pivot can be just as strong and stiff with over 1 pound less in frame weight.

    looks like we have a physics AND Engineering major on our hands guys. Are you capable of talking out your mouth? seems everyting to this point has been coming out your ass.


    Man this is dumb.......same amount of metal to make a FSR and faux 4bar stiff

    Back to the drawing board Mud Muncher.....nice points Zonk
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Agree.
    .
    Will I thought you were smarter then that
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    Will I thought you were smarter then that
    Yeah... I thought I was smarter than that too... I really don't think I have an excuse either. I'm pretty sure I didn't have that much to drink at dinner.

    Well, I do agree that a lot of it is hype.

    And how did I miss the Turner part? It's because Specialized wants $$$ for the HL. Typical Big S move. And doesn't Ellsworth call it the ICT or something?

    Wow. Yeah. My bad.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Yeah... I thought I was smarter than that too... I really don't think I have an excuse either. I'm pretty sure I didn't have that much to drink at dinner.

    Well, I do agree that a lot of it is hype.

    And how did I miss the Turner part? It's because Specialized wants $$$ for the HL. Typical Big S move. And doesn't Ellsworth call it the ICT or something?

    Wow. Yeah. My bad.
    that guy had bad arguements........alls good...Merry Xmas
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  25. #25
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    Man this place cracks me up! Too funny.

    This is like trying to convince Christians that they are not always correct. Goes no where.

    The funny thing is. Once one Christian says something wrong there's 3 million others to back them up and make it "correct" trough numbers. Basic Sheepology.

    I'm not even going to bother with trying to explain anything here. It's obvious we have a lot of marketing engineers around these parts.

    I will of course have to Call BS on the FRS is as stiff as Faux bar for same weight. Just isn't going to happen, although you can get close using Turner's style of pivots. You're trying to tell me that stiffness transfers just as well through two bearings as apposed to just one?

    One o the FSRs that does do well in stiffness, if the old BigHit design, because of the 24 rear wheel.

  26. #26
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    All I'm going to say on the issue is that Brake Therapy adds alot of unneccesary(for most) complications. For me its weight, and I imagine that is just another hassle when doing a trailside fix.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudMuncher
    Man this place cracks me up! Too funny.

    This is like trying to convince Christians that they are not always correct. Goes no where.
    of course it goes no where when you're incapable of presenting an intelligent argument for your stance.

    The funny thing is. Once one Christian says something wrong there's 3 million others to back them up and make it "correct" trough numbers. Basic Sheepology.
    no, whats funny is your pathetically stupid attempt at comparing me to a christian... Kettle Hi, this is pot. You're black!.

    I'm not even going to bother with trying to explain anything here. It's obvious we have a lot of marketing engineers around these parts.
    yes please spare us your idiocy. You will not be missed. Please try to stay in the turner forums with the rest of the reality callenged.

    I will of course have to Call BS on the FRS is as stiff as Faux bar for same weight. Just isn't going to happen, although you can get close using Turner's style of pivots. You're trying to tell me that stiffness transfers just as well through two bearings as apposed to just one?
    that relies entirely on the design. Oh and by the way, MOST of the faux bar setups I've seen have MORE pivots than my FSR.... so please elaborate how that makes sense using your logic. And no Im not validating your logic, I just want a good laugh.

    One o the FSRs that does do well in stiffness, if the old BigHit design, because of the 24 rear wheel.
    hahahahahhahahahahahhaa oh god. No comment.


    "Foot in mouth and head up ass, so what you talking about?"
    Last edited by Zonk0u; 12-26-2006 at 11:18 AM.
    "What would happen to the Weather Channel's ratings if people werent scared anymore?"

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudMuncher
    On top of that, it takes a lot of extra metal to make an FSR as stiff as a 4bar single pivot. Stiff FSRs are usually over weight, like Knollys and Norcos. A 4bar Single pivot can be just as strong and stiff with over 1 pound less in frame weight.
    umm what.....
    Jake
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  29. #29
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    Yah fill us all in on how moving the pivot point saves a pound.
    Last edited by Zonk0u; 12-26-2006 at 02:01 PM.
    "What would happen to the Weather Channel's ratings if people werent scared anymore?"

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