A challenge for Brake masters out there - Hayes- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    A challenge for Brake masters out there - Hayes

    To set the scene: I've got an old-school 2000/2001 hayes disc brake. They only made one model back then - how times have changed. So one day my brake lever/master cylinder craps out (problem: squeeze lever to the handle bar -- no braking power). I need new brakes, obviously. But the rear brake mount configuration has changed since my frame was built (see photo) and I suspect the problem is with the master cylinder not the caliper. After some suggestions, I opted to buy a Hayes Stroker. My idea was to use the new lever with the old caliper. The Hayes tech guys said this was possible (?)

    So I installed the lever. bled the brakes. and still, i'm getting poor braking power. It works, but locking the rear brake is surprisingly difficult. I rebleed. and rebleed again. Still no improvements. I'm starting to think that the Stroker lever with the old school caliper isn't a match made is Heaven. I'm also starting to think that the rear caliper might have crapped out. But my real question is: Did that the hayes tech guy lie to me?

    So I'd be curious to learn if there is a known solution to this problem (besides rebleeding the brake). Or if anyone had retrofitted a Stroker lever with an older model caliper. Or perhaps someone knows of a rear brake adapter that would work for my frame's brake mount? I just want my brake to work.

    Thanks
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  2. #2
    Flyin' low
    Reputation: S_Huitt's Avatar
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    Have you tryed to rebuild the old lever/master cylnder?

    If pro is the opposite of con, then progress is the opposite of congress?

  3. #3
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    rear brake adapter that would work for my frame's brake mount

    Here's an adaptor I had for my old Cheetah DS frame. You might be able to see the set screws I installed to help keep it centered. Even with all the modification the mount was flexy and would get out of alignment constantly. I ended up machining a beefier version (still on the frame) and it worked OK but not as well as direct mounting. You might just need a new caliper hopefully but I wouldn't recommend trying the adaptor method.
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  4. #4
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    the caliper is very simple and rebuildable, the parts are same as current, so I suggest opening it and replacing the pistons and rings and clean it up as needed and it will effectively be new.

  5. #5
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    Sometimes the lines go bad. The inner line can break and your fluid will go between the inner line and the outer protective tubing. You wont have leaks. The brakes will bleed but you get no pressure. Ive had this happen a few times with lines. Change the line first.

  6. #6
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    I had calculated the costs to replace the master cylinder + bleed kit, etc and it just made sense more sense to get a new system.

    Yeah, according to those photos, I'll probably stay away from the option of fabricating a rear mount adapter.

    Regarding: rebuilding the caliper. What are the obvious signs that the caliper is shot? The pistons move smoothly in-and-out. At this point, I'm not convinced that it's the caliper -- but maybe it is. ??

  7. #7
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    Replace the MC piston with a new one, the old ones were plastic and crap... fluid bypassed primary seal and just shot into the resivoir, which explains the no power.. (unless you are getting resistance) in my case, I had resistance only when pushed hard enough to have the flanges of the bushings flare outward, otherwise, right to the bar.

    you can slide the new piston itself right into the older style MC cartridge, just remove the spring pin and use the spring from the new MC piston... (I believe that is my setup right now)

    EDIT: hmm wait, maybe not? The older style MC cartridge used a longer (plastic) mc piston that had the resi hole further back, which made it impossible for the smaller, newer MC piston to accomodate the excess fluid... I think that was the problem with mine, i cant even remember now what I did...
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  8. #8
    Pivotal figure
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    I've never had a caliper go bad but I have replaced the master cylinder a few times. Hayes used to sell caliper halves with the post mount but it's been several years since I needed one. I don't know if they offer that anymore or if it's even an option with the Stroker.

  9. #9
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    You can fit a new Hayes Mag lever and MC to it. It'll probably run you around 70 bucks.

  10. #10
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    I've already installed the hayes stroker brake lever, and paired it with my 2001 caliper. The braking power is just not there. And I can't figure out why.

    I could replace the housing as suggested above...

  11. #11
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    The MC diameter is probably different than that of the old Mag. So you're not displacing the same amount of fluid.

    Either that or you don't have a good bleed. Or you have a leak.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jondotli
    I've already installed the hayes stroker brake lever, and paired it with my 2001 caliper. The braking power is just not there. And I can't figure out why.

    I could replace the housing as suggested above...
    try replacing the hose that is what happend with mine....as someoen said before the inner hose could have popped but the outter hose is still keeping the fluid in...I couldnt figure out what was wrong with mine either until one day i squeezed hard enough to pop the outter hose too and squirt fluid everywhere. Sent the bad hose to hayes and they said that that was what had happend. The inner hose popped and that was why i had no braking power and then eventually the fluid leaking from the inner hose found a weak spot in the outter hose and out it came. So my suggestion would be replacing the hose and its a cheap and easy fix if that is indeed the problem.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jondotli
    I've already installed the hayes stroker brake lever, and paired it with my 2001 caliper. The braking power is just not there. And I can't figure out why.

    I could replace the housing as suggested above...

    It's a hayes

    sounds like you have exhausted all options to get er to work, but the problem might be your new lever master cylinder. The new cylinder was designed for the stroker only, and thusly it might not be pushing the correct amount of fluid for your caliper's piston size and stroke.

    i can't remember the exact formula to figure all that stuff out, but i'd try a hayes mag lever.

    a rebuild kit (pistons and square seals) is like 30 bucks, and a bleed is.. well.. $5 in dot fluid and an afternoon.
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  14. #14
    Meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chooofoojoo
    It's a hayes

    sounds like you have exhausted all options to get er to work, but the problem might be your new lever master cylinder. The new cylinder was designed for the stroker only, and thusly it might not be pushing the correct amount of fluid for your caliper's piston size and stroke.
    The MC diameter is probably different than that of the old Mag. So you're not displacing the same amount of fluid.

    Either that or you don't have a good bleed. Or you have a leak.
    Hmmm...

  15. #15
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    re: stroker pushing the incorrect amount of fluid.

    i thought this might be a possible reason. but i did check with a hayes tech guy about its compatibility, and got the okay from him. So... who knows?

    btw, when bleeding the stroker do you open or close the reach dial all the way, or does that not matter? There's no documentation about this that I could find. Perhaps it's like the El Camino?

  16. #16
    Meh.
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    He might not have known himself. I think you dial the reach out some.

  17. #17
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    did it come with a new hose? and did u put that hose on or are you still using the old one? If you havent yet try a new hose.
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  18. #18
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    hose, hose, hose, hose.


    I mean try a new line.

  19. #19
    Changed forever
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    Get an adaptor and run a whole new brake

    I know they have some adaptors(like 2 left) at the shop I used to work at:
    www.cycleworldbikes.com, I tried to find a pic of it but it looks like no distributors have them anymore....They'll ship it to you...Pm if you want more details

  20. #20
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    As stated earlier, try servicing/rebuilding the caliper. Should be fairly inexpensive. For those saying the Stroker isn't displacing the correct amount of fluid, aren't they supposed to have a bigger bladder in the MC, thus he would be pushing MORE fluid than previously? Which would bring one back to rebuilding the caliper and/or replacing the hoses if it hasn't already been done.



  21. #21
    Look at the time!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfinguru
    For those saying the Stroker isn't displacing the correct amount of fluid, aren't they supposed to have a bigger bladder in the MC, thus he would be pushing MORE fluid than previously?
    Exactly that could be the case. Bigger MC means less hydraulic leverage, means less braking power.

    The bigger bladder is not a sure sign that the MC actually has a larger diameter, but it is an indication.
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  22. #22
    Meh.
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    Bigger bladder does not mean it displaces more fluid. It means that it has a larger fluid capacity.

  23. #23
    ride hard take risks
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    http://www.a2zcomponents.com/OLD-web/Adapter/adap01.htm

    Start doing some of the suggestions & post what resolved the problem.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Hmmm...
    dang. you posted while i was typing. my slow-a$$ fingers..
    oh well.
    Proud to represent Mojo Wheels.

  25. #25
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    When you say it doesn't have power do you mean that you pull the lever and it goes to the bars or is it firm but when you ride it it just doesn't stop?
    I just rebuilt 2 of those calipers and levers with new pistons, seals, and master cylinders today and the brakes felt great.
    Without replacing those pistons or seals in the pistons you may be using only one piston(giving half the power) or they could be sticking badly too. I would order some new seals/pistons for the brake and some new hose as well.
    You may also consider that you may have contaminated the pads if they got any DOT fluid on them or even if you touched them with your fingers.
    Soak your rotors and pads in either disc brake cleaner(available at auto parts stores) or rubbing alcohol and don't touch them with your fingers or any fluid.

    -Kevin

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmxconvert
    When you say it doesn't have power do you mean that you pull the lever and it goes to the bars or is it firm but when you ride it it just doesn't stop?
    I just rebuilt 2 of those calipers and levers with new pistons, seals, and master cylinders today and the brakes felt great.
    Without replacing those pistons or seals in the pistons you may be using only one piston(giving half the power) or they could be sticking badly too. I would order some new seals/pistons for the brake and some new hose as well.
    You may also consider that you may have contaminated the pads if they got any DOT fluid on them or even if you touched them with your fingers.
    Soak your rotors and pads in either disc brake cleaner(available at auto parts stores) or rubbing alcohol and don't touch them with your fingers or any fluid.

    -Kevin
    it means you get better modulation... better control. Brakes dont lock up on you as easy... Stokers do stop you though... They are awesome... I'm glad i ditched my Juicies... Rather have modulation then power...


  27. #27
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    Pop a braided stainless hose on there, and never worry about it again. Hayes hoses are poo.

    Goodridge or Hope are both good hoses, and the package should come with the fittings to fit your setup.

    Also, Hayes makes an adaptor for your 22mm mount if you want to run a newer I.S. caliper. It is adapter "number 27".

  28. #28
    Meh.
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    Poh... that wasn't the question...

    And his brakes DON'T WORK right now.

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