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  1. #1
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    Beadlocks ?

    Long story short, During hard descents my front tire (a Specialized S-works evil twin roller 26x2.6) slides on the rim under heavy braking (the rim spinning slightly slower then the tire) stretching out the tube on one side and bunching it up on the other. I have had several flats due to the problem, one leading to a rather nasty encounter with a tree . Raising the pressure on the tire helps but that kind of defeats the purpose of running larger tires. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    Long story short, During hard descents my front tire (a Specialized S-works evil twin roller 26x2.6) slides on the rim under heavy braking (the rim spinning slightly slower then the tire) stretching out the tube on one side and bunching it up on the other. I have had several flats due to the problem, one leading to a rather nasty encounter with a tree . Raising the pressure on the tire helps but that kind of defeats the purpose of running larger tires. Any help is greatly appreciated.
    I've actually never heard of such a thing. I would try taking the tire off and cleaning it and the rim with rubbing alcohol. This could help get any lubricant, debris, etc. off that could be promoting less friction. Likely, that alone will not do it. I would try wrapping a little electrical or velox tape (preferably velox tape because electrical tape might be too smooth - but they will both create a tighter seal) around the rim. Try and get the tape as close to the edge as possible - not centered. So maybe one layer wrapped as close to the left and another as close to the right. This is just what I would do. It's not proven but it should theoretically create more friction and pressure that should prevent this problem.

    EDIT: BTW, what rim are you running? And, is it possible that the bead on the tire might be damage allowing it to be fit too loosely?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjcorley
    I've actually never heard of such a thing. I would try taking the tire off and cleaning it and the rim with rubbing alcohol. This could help get any lubricant, debris, etc. off that could be promoting less friction. Likely, that alone will not do it. I would try wrapping a little electrical or velox tape (preferably velox tape because electrical tape might be too smooth - but they will both create a tighter seal) around the rim. Try and get the tape as close to the edge as possible - not centered. So maybe one layer wrapped as close to the left and another as close to the right. This is just what I would do. It's not proven but it should theoretically create more friction and pressure that should prevent this problem.

    EDIT: BTW, what rim are you running? And, is it possible that the bead on the tire might be damage allowing it to be fit too loosely?
    Had the same idea my self.
    Tape only made it worse, but cleaning the rim with alcohol helped a little. I even tried roughing up the bead on the rim with sandpaper with no luck. Im thinking of hitting up ACE hardware in the morning and trying some kind of glue.

    EDIT: Front rim is a Alex Rims DM18, the tire sits on the bead perfectly. Im thinking it might just be me being extra friendly with the front brake, I love to ride "stoppies" downhill.

  4. #4
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    dont go to ace. panaracer, vittoria, and tufo all make tire glue. (for road bikes) but it should help. stop by your lbs

  5. #5
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    Tire glue is going to suck if/when you get a flat.

  6. #6
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    I would consider replacing the tire. I'm not sure if it has a kevlar bead, but if it does, it's probably stretched out, and there's not much you can do.

    A 2.5 Nevegal wire bead is one of the tightest fits available.

  7. #7
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    Rubbing a little stans on the bead and the rim may help. Its latex and may provide enough friction. Plus the seal will be easy to break if you need to change a tube
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  8. #8
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    Cant say that I have ever had this problem on any bike of mine (other than a serious mishap with a set of non-quite-dried tubulars)...

    Syncros makes a couple of rims with 'bead locks' however.....

    what kind of pressures are you running?

  9. #9
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    Pressure range for the tire is 35-80PSI, but I'm rather light so I prefer to run 20~25PSI. I have ran as high as 40 PSI and it still slides on the bead and it feels like the tire is hard as a rock at that pressure. The tire is still in great shape and it seats perfectly. Glue is an option as I rarely get flats under normal circumstances. 15PSI front and 25PSI rear is perfect for my weight but even the rear slides slightly on the bead under 30PSI with hard braking. I'm thinking of getting some generic rubber cement and just putting a few spots of it on the bead.

  10. #10
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    I had the same problem with my 909 FRO tire. The thing could never hold onto the rim.
    I ditched that tire. It was so bad it ripped a few valve stems clean off the tube.
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  11. #11
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    it is a somewhat rare but known problem, although i've only seen it on X/C and "All Mountain" kind of tires.

    most likely, you just happen to have a unlucky combination of tire and rim that doesn't create enough friction between the two, for whatever reason.

    Schwalbe tires have a strip of extra sticky rubber on the beads to prevent tire slippage:
    http://www.schwalbetires.com/limited_slip_page
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  12. #12
    ...abuse these forks.
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    No man, you need something like this...
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    If you want a really ghetto rig you could always take some fishing string and tie a loop around the tire and rim. Do that between every spoke, and you'll be set .

    BTW: Yes I am joking.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher32x
    If you want a really ghetto rig you could always take some fishing string and tie a loop around the tire and rim. Do that between every spoke, and you'll be set .

    BTW: Yes I am joking.
    or duct tape
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  15. #15
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    buy new tires.

  16. #16
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    Dude, if you're tire is rotating when it's at 40psi, you have real problems. Take that back to where you bought it and have them return it for you. You have a real problem there and you shouldn't be trying any goofy hardware store/backwoods engineering. The problem is the bead is not right and the manufacturer should take care of you. Period.
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  17. #17
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    Buncha glue on just one side of the tire so you can still pull the other side off in case of a flat.

    However if you are running your tire at 15psi I dont care how light you are - that is asking for trouble.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    Pressure range for the tire is 35-80PSI, but I'm rather light so I prefer to run 20~25PSI. I have ran as high as 40 PSI and it still slides on the bead and it feels like the tire is hard as a rock at that pressure. The tire is still in great shape and it seats perfectly. Glue is an option as I rarely get flats under normal circumstances. 15PSI front and 25PSI rear is perfect for my weight but even the rear slides slightly on the bead under 30PSI with hard braking. I'm thinking of getting some generic rubber cement and just putting a few spots of it on the bead.

    Part of your problem lies with running such low PSI

    Are your tires several seasons old? Have you changed a bunch of flats on them?

    Are your rims old and busted?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogenman
    buy new tires.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14
    Dude, if you're tire is rotating when it's at 40psi, you have real problems. Take that back to where you bought it and have them return it for you. You have a real problem there and you shouldn't be trying any goofy hardware store/backwoods engineering. The problem is the bead is not right and the manufacturer should take care of you. Period.
    I dont think you all get how much brake load I put on the rim/tire at times. Lets put it this way, me leaning all the way back with my ass practically on the back tire and still having the back come up is rather normal to me . I have snapped single crown forks off at the neck just under brake load.

  21. #21
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    uh-huh. Show us a video of that please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    I dont think you all get how much brake load I put on the rim/tire at times. Lets put it this way, me leaning all the way back with my ass practically on the back tire and still having the back come up is rather normal to me . I have snapped single crown forks off at the neck just under brake load.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    I dont think you all get how much brake load I put on the rim/tire at times. Lets put it this way, me leaning all the way back with my ass practically on the back tire and still having the back come up is rather normal to me . I have snapped single crown forks off at the neck just under brake load.

    My voluptuous downhill-loving ass and a set of codes probably have you beat on the concept of braking forces. The only tires I've seen slip are old, or stretched out.

    You didn't answer my questions from earlier:

    Are these tires a few seasons old?

    Have you had a bunch of flats, and changed them a lot?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karupshun
    Are these tires a few seasons old?

    Have you had a bunch of flats, and changed them a lot?
    There two seasons old. The front has very little wear so I think I'm just going to glue the tire to the bead and be done with it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    There two seasons old. The front has very little wear so I think I'm just going to glue the tire to the bead and be done with it.

    Gluing it down should help, but your tires are just getting old now. You'll probably end up needing to replace them if the glue doesn't work


    Time makes fools of us all.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    I'm just going to glue the tire to the bead and be done with it.

    Good luck with that.
    Can't wait to hear the outcome.

    Any reason you have to ride like you do? I mean, how many riders out there need to take these measures? I'd bet less than 1% of riders.

    Maybe try to learn how to ride, without loading the front wheel like a doofuss.

    Dunno what else to say, so I'll exit stage left and be done with this thread, it's giving me a headache.

    Good luck with that glue.
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  26. #26
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    Maybe use more then 5psi in your front tire and it wont slide?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    I dont think you all get how much brake load I put on the rim/tire at times. Lets put it this way, me leaning all the way back with my ass practically on the back tire and still having the back come up is rather normal to me . I have snapped single crown forks off at the neck just under brake load.
    I think everyone should stop posting to help this kook after reading this post.

  28. #28
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    Must say this is quite the warm welcome. I ride how I ride and you ride how you ride. If you don't have anything constructive to say try not saying any thing. On the other hand from what I see around here off topic posts and raging on OP seem to be the norm. To bad I heard good things about this forum. Thanks to every one that actually tried to help.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256
    Must say this is quite the warm welcome. I ride how I ride and you ride how you ride. If you don't have anything constructive to say try not saying any thing. On the other hand from what I see around here off topic posts and raging on OP seem to be the norm. To bad I heard good things about this forum. Thanks to every one that actually tried to help.
    Sorry kid, but you aren't snapping steer tubes from grabbing to much front brake. You don't magically put more force on your front during heavy braking than every other person on a bike. You have bad, old, worn out tires and people have told you this, yet you insist it's not that and it's in fact your extreme stopping forces causing your tire to rotate. Well it's not. Buy new tires, put in more PSI than 15lbs, and ride your bike.

  30. #30
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    Do you use soapy water when mounting the tires? If so, remove the tires and wash off any soap residue from the rim and tire. Then install the tire dry (with baby powder on the tube and inside of the tire), or if you really need lube use Windex (what I use on my motocross wheels, dries quickly and not slippery once dry, and doesn't screw up your brake rotors). Or you can use WD-40, as many motocrossers and offroad racers have done for many years - it dries kinda sticky so may actually help keep the tire in place - just keep away from the rotors!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydownhill
    No man, you need something like this...

    I run these .... on my 1980 IH Scout II rock crawler .

    I suppose you could make a set for a bike wheel. If you had a front wheel you were willing to donate to trial and error (emphasis on error) . And an old rim to cut up. Cut the side walls off the the donor rim to make the rings. Drill a matching bolt pattern through both rings and both sides of the front wheel. Tap fine threads. Tire would go on with beads outside the wheel and the rings would go on over the tire beads, sandwiching or "locking" the beads in place. If the bolts were the right length that they didn't puncture the tube it might work. If your fork would hold the width .... kinda over engineered though ....likely a waste of time , but an interesting experiment.

    I pretty much agree with the crowd, try a new tire first.

    Also walmart has spray paint that has a grip tape texture ... might try some on the inside of the wheel and see if it grips the tire better. Good luck.

  32. #32
    Yay! Bikes !
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    Syncros machines pockets from the ID of their rim sidewalls for exactly this reason.
    I wish I took a picture when I laced up my current rims (DS28)

    http://www.syncros.com/rims.htm#rimtech

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHGnaR
    I think everyone should stop posting to help this kook after reading this post.
    word. there is NO WAY some kid who weighs a buck and a quarter has ever snapped a fork by trying to stop too hard. hell, i'm 200 lbs and i couldn't even break a fork that way...


  34. #34
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    Did I say it was some expensive fork I snapped? No. In fact it was some walmart **** fork I was playing around with. Kindly post something constructive or piss off.

    Went up to my LBS today and friend of mine that works there recommended something deceptively simple, hair spray. He said it solved his "bead walk" problem. I will give that a try and post back. Thanks again to every one actually trying to help.

  35. #35
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    Well it worked strangely enough. I doubt it will hold up over the long run, but it will last till I can get some good bead glue. Thanks again to every one who tried to help.

  36. #36
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    hey ace 256, I have a new bike product I invented. It is brake lube. You apply it to your rotors before every ride and it makes you ride 25% faster guaranteed or your money back! just shoot me a pm if you want info on it.

  37. #37
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    Wink

    Went through this myself...

    ...I'm 260lb clyde, and yes I know how to ride, 45 years experience with motos/quads/mtbs and your moms... LOL

    Happens with brand new tires to me so rule buying new tires out!

    I load the front wheel a lot coming from moto trials to MTBs going into turns actualy lifting the rear wheel, same with motos, so I spin tires on rims! Thank god motos have rimlocks, and I have made simlple rimlocks for my MTBs also, but this was the first solve for me or if you don't want to fashion a rimlock and drill another hole in your rims!

    Here's the solve: 3M Automotive Trim & Accessories : 3M

    I use 4257 and you will have to spend time doing this mod,

    1. Clean the tires with acetone and let dry in the sun.
    2. I use the tape in the stock wide form as it comes off the roll
    3. Then run an exacto knife around being careful not to scar the rim
    4. Cutting the strips thin enough to line the rim, be careful to attach and not have s88t hanging all over causing the tire to not mount correctly.
    5. I don't line the entire rim just sections about 8 inches in length.
    6. If you get dirt on the tape it lessens it's effectivity!

    This will not work for snapping fork off at the steerer... LOL

    Good Luck
    All positive rep appreciated...

  38. #38
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    So I have had this happen.

    Mind you I am new to the sport, but I bought a used rig and the tires were a season old. The tread was fine, but the side walls were junk. I got new tires and it stopped. Then I started ripping them off the bead on corners. I blamed the tubless rim. Then I put tubes in.

    I kept blowing tubes. Then I started airing up more and no problems.

    I then thought it was air pressure so I took the tubes out again and ran then with higher air. Exploded the rear just the same.

    Now I run downhill rims that are wider and Minions with exo sidewalls no tubes with moderately high pressures. I'm a 165lbs and run 35lbs and have had no problems with that combo.

    In my opinion strong sidewalls and wider rims is the way to go. If you don't want to get new rims, I suggest at least exo or equivalent side walls with higher pressure.

    I run lift access stuff mostly and the mileage you can put down doing that is unreal and less noticeable since you aren't pedaling up hill so one needs to stay conscious as far as maintenance and tire wear. I would give a set of tires about 2-3 months riding lifts 3 days a week. The tread might be fine, but the structure probably isn't. Hope that helps.

  39. #39
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    Dump the tubes and just use 6 oz of Stans.. give it a two or three days before riding. During the first two days, try to coat the inside of the rim by swirling the wheel while holding it horizontal. You will probably have to air up the tire several times till you get it sealed up. Done this way, I have to pull every inch of the bead off the grove to change tires cause its glued on by the dried Stans. It comes off easy enough but it will definitely not slip.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE_256 View Post
    There two seasons old. The front has very little wear so I think I'm just going to glue the tire to the bead and be done with it.
    your going to ruin your wheels if you glue it and your never going to be able to get a new tire to seal later down the road if your rim is full of glue. i don't see why you love these tires so much, you would rather destroy a wheel set with glue then going and spending some money on new tires.

  41. #41
    DownhillBAWS
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    i would replace the tire

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    your going to ruin your wheels if you glue it and your never going to be able to get a new tire to seal later down the road if your rim is full of glue. i don't see why you love these tires so much, you would rather destroy a wheel set with glue then going and spending some money on new tires.
    you're answering a post from almost 4 years ago.

  43. #43
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    If your tire is pulling the tube and causing flats, you need to use the baby powder trick mentioned above. It really is that simple.

  44. #44
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    the value in doing so is that people learn things.....spreading knowledge should not be on a time limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    you're answering a post from almost 4 years ago.
    2011 Canfield ONE 200mm DH 35 pounds
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  45. #45
    old school...
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    Why doesn't anyone make something like dirt bike rims locks for mountain bikes?

  46. #46
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    ive run said evil twin roller for years dh and on my am riding. been runnin it as low as 15ish and had same tube in it since i started. maybe that tire just sucks.
    <(*-*<) Go Ride (>*-*)>

  47. #47
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    Yeah, I'm going to second the "warranty it" specialized is on top of their sh1t, and something is wrong with that. It should be pretty straightforward and easy.

  48. #48
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    I have a similar problem with FatBike rims, the tire is so lose on the rim you can throw a cat through it. I have an ingenious way to baffle it so I can seal up ghetto tubeless but it has a CATASTROPHIC failure mechanism. At pressures around 14psi I have lost the rim seal (with a full load of stan's after being well seated for 3 months) depressurize and the tire comes right off. You are riding rim on whatever terrain you are lucky enough to be on. Yesterday it was a sweeping high G corner on pavement (road rash to prove it). I am looking for some rim with a tighter fit (to a Surly Nate for instance) and more positive beadlock???
    Any ideas?

  49. #49
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    Beadlocks would add alot of unnecessary weight I would imagine.. I thought about getting them for my FJ Cruiser but after weighing the pros and cons and my wheeling style I came to the conclusion that they aren't worth it for me.. Rock rings on the other hand, Heck yeah!!
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