Banshee Slopestyle Bike- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Banshee Slopestyle Bike


  2. #2
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    very nice...
    SOCAL UNION REPREZENT
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    does it still qualify as a mountainbike?
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    I've beat beer cans on my limp pee pee.

  3. #3
    Meh.
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    Any idea on approximate price?

  4. #4
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    good question. I'll see what i can dig up...

  5. #5
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    Is this one of your drawings
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  6. #6
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    oogly...
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  7. #7
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    looks like one of the iron horses
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Any idea on approximate price?
    Ok so its still sorta up in the air but it should be close to the chaparral price. 2k cad.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Is this one of your drawings
    hehe, nope not mine


    Quote Originally Posted by coma13
    oogly...
    Yo momma

    Quote Originally Posted by hardcore newbie
    looks like one of the iron horses
    Yea i agree that front end looks like an IH

  10. #10
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    looks like it might be a solid new offering. but can banshee actually hit that 7lb target?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  11. #11
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    ....sick
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    Can I paint your rockring, silly bun salad?

  12. #12
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    that bike looks pretty good id ride it
    Looking for a 7.87 x 2.25mm shock, any brand any age that runs well!! cheap would be appreciated!

  13. #13
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    Thats my model, I'm the new banshee designer.

    well the software says we can hit the 7lb mark... but we will have to see what happens when it goes into production and after tweeks from testing, but I doubt it will go up in weight more than maybe 0.2lbs max if at all!

  14. #14
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    This has to be my favorite part about the write-up...

    Turner 4bar system

    Dave Turner hasn't designed any linkage systems that I'm aware of. A more appropriate name would be Kona 4bar System, although I'm quite sure that someone else came up with this even before they used it. But they are one of the biggest proponents of said design.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    This has to be my favorite part about the write-up...

    Turner 4bar system

    Dave Turner hasn't designed any linkage systems that I'm aware of. A more appropriate name would be Kona 4bar System, although I'm quite sure that someone else came up with this even before they used it. But they are one of the biggest proponents of said design.
    and you would be wrong

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Suspension_Bicycles or email Dave himself.
    Although Banshee is a relatively young company we have a long history in mtb'ing. Our owner used to own, operate and engineer products for the original Syncros and has been around long since the very beginning of the sport - check out Pippin Osborne http://www.mtnbikehalloffame.com/ind...page=99&mID=94 .
    It really is the Turner 4bar, although people find it convenient to call it a faux bar, but are incorrect to classify it as a single pivot. I won't go into more detail cause this things been beaten to death like a million times in every forum.
    Question is would this design be a really great application for a slopestyle bike? Answer: absolutely.
    One of the dudes working behind the scenes at Banshee.
    Banshee main site and our Blog

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    hehe, nope not mine
    What are the travel settings going to be

    7 pounds is a tough # to hit without comprimising flex or strength.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    check out Pippin Osborne
    It really is the Turner 4bar, although people find it convenient to call it a faux bar, but are incorrect to classify it as a single pivot. I won't go into more detail cause this things been beaten to death like a million times in every forum.
    Question is would this design be a really great application for a slopestyle bike? Answer: absolutely.
    Pippin has done a excelent job starting up Banshee & knows his stuff well. I feel supporting the guys like Pippin at Banshee & Herb at Versus as well as the other so called indipendent manufactures is awesome. The riders & supporters of these manufactures should support each other to help spread the truth of real frame building & development.

    Keep up the hard work & ride on!!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    What are the travel settings going to be

    7 pounds is a tough # to hit without comprimising flex or strength.
    To be perfectly honest all this info has been leaked of my blog so there was no official press release.
    Regardless... the travel is 6.5" and 5" the 6.5 is for the guys who haven't yet dialled in the landings...
    7lbs flex or strength??... this is exactly why a Turner 4bar is a great design for a slopestyle bike. The swingarm pivot and the rocker pivot are triangulated thus having two points of contact that help negate twisting forces on the back end. eg... take a hockey stick and put your hands to the outsides and have a friend try to twist it out of your hands... not so easy...then try it with both your hands touching in the center... bet your little sister could rip it out of your hands in under 5 seconds. Its basically the same just have the rocker pivot and the swingarm pivot represent your hands... the closer the are together the less effective they are at minimizing flex.
    Also the rear wheel axle is attached directly to the main swingarm bearing [big and strong] which means there is less chance of increased flex.
    Easton makes some damn fine tubing... enuff said on that.
    Thats how we can get the frame light and non-flexy.
    One of the dudes working behind the scenes at Banshee.
    Banshee main site and our Blog

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    To be perfectly honest all this info has been leaked of my blog so there was no official press release.
    enuff said on that.
    Leaked off your Blog, badbad thief.

    Any expeted release date
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Leaked off your Blog, badbad thief.

    Any expeted release date
    just check the blog... there will be constant updates of progress on all new bikes.
    Cat is outta the bag so ... http://bansheebikes.blogspot.com hopefully this doesn't get too outta hand cause it is my own blog not Banshees

    to answer your question: very soon... depends on how fast Easton can get the dies made for the custom tubes.
    One of the dudes working behind the scenes at Banshee.
    Banshee main site and our Blog

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    What are the travel settings going to be

    7 pounds is a tough # to hit without compromising flex or strength.
    Yep it is a hard # to hit for what it is. Hopefully all the #'s and materials end up where they're supposed to and a killer bike is born Thus making everyone up their game!
    Last edited by mtb_biker; 01-15-2007 at 11:59 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    Yep it is a hard # to hit for what it is. Hopefully all the #'s and materials end up where they're supposed to and a killer bike is born Thus making every up their game!
    The reinforcements came in to answer the questions, you can go back to bed now
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  23. #23
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    and you would be wrong

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Suspension_Bicycles or email Dave himself.
    Although Banshee is a relatively young company we have a long history in mtb'ing. Our owner used to own, operate and engineer products for the original Syncros and has been around long since the very beginning of the sport - check out Pippin Osborne http://www.mtnbikehalloffame.com/ind...page=99&mID=94 .
    It really is the Turner 4bar, although people find it convenient to call it a faux bar, but are incorrect to classify it as a single pivot. I won't go into more detail cause this things been beaten to death like a million times in every forum.
    Question is would this design be a really great application for a slopestyle bike? Answer: absolutely.

    Read much?? I don't see anything in either of your referenced links regarding Turner designing any kind of suspension design. However, I did find this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Turner adopted a seat stay link similar to that used on many Kona bikes (called the TNT for differentiation), with positive feedback from the cycling community.

  25. #25
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    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=136869

    email Dave and ask, he'd just rather be riding than expunge time suing people. Lots of info out there...
    Last edited by mtb_biker; 01-16-2007 at 09:49 AM.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=136869

    email Dave and ask, he'd just rather be riding than expunge time suing people.
    I dont think Dave wants to answer emails on the subject all day either.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    I dont think Dave wants to answer emails on the subject all day either.
    i'm sure he's got an automated one that answers this question automagically

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    Read much?? I don't see anything in either of your referenced links regarding Turner designing any kind of suspension design. However, I did find this...
    Sorry... you're the expert.
    One of the dudes working behind the scenes at Banshee.
    Banshee main site and our Blog

  29. #29
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    Looks good,
    The 2007 Turner RFX is 7.1 lbs with a DHX air. it was lightened up to be more of a tough trail bike, the 2006 was more like 8 lbs with a similar shock.

    DT used a lot of computer modeling to lighten AND stiffen the 07.


    7 lbs seems light for a slopestyle bike that most people will just DJ and urban ride it. I dunno how the bike can be stronger with the curved tubing, it seems to be the trendy thing other than that the 66 fork crown is so damn wide that the down tube needs to be curved some.

    Curious to see what the Banshee comes out looking like.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Looks good,
    The 2007 Turner RFX is 7.1 lbs with a DHX air. it was lightened up to be more of a tough trail bike, the 2006 was more like 8 lbs with a similar shock.

    DT used a lot of computer modeling to lighten AND stiffen the 07.


    7 lbs seems light for a slopestyle bike that most people will just DJ and urban ride it. I dunno how the bike can be stronger with the curved tubing, it seems to be the trendy thing other than that the 66 fork crown is so damn wide that the down tube needs to be curved some.

    Curious to see what the Banshee comes out looking like.
    The Wildcard is 7lbs without shock and I just checked the Transition site and the bottlerocket is 8.2 so I stand corrected... i read somewhere it was 9 and I was sure I saw it on their site... oh well. I think its well within where it needs to be to be strong... and we don't just guess at this stuff we use FEA and previous experience with our other bikes regarding wall thicknesses and such.

    And to Red5: my last statement is out of line...
    we've been calling it the Turner 4bar because thats what Pip has always called it and I figured he'd know best... he knows all these guys personally. It may be something he just coined because the design originated from the group of guys Dave worked with. Dave has and continues to design frames and suspension.
    One of the dudes working behind the scenes at Banshee.
    Banshee main site and our Blog

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    Sorry... you're the expert.
    Your words not mine. I was just pointing out what you appeared to have missed, glad I could help.

  32. #32
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    There is the Versus. This comes off the Versus site.

    (Whistler, Canada 2006-10-08)

    This years’ Harvest Huckfest saw the introduction of the Jump Jam held at Whistler Blackcomb’s new Air Dome, an 8500 square foot training facility located at Base II. <st1ersonname w:st="on">Andrew Taylor</st1ersonname> killed it on his prototype Versus hardtail and went on take 1<sup>st</sup> place in the rider judged Huckfest Jump Jam which was brought indoors and showcased some great urban terrain.
    The weekend ended with an Amateur Slopestyle happening in the Boneyard. Andrew Taylor opened up his bag of tricks and dropped off the Giro box and 270’d the quarter, he then supermanned the step-up following the step down enroute to winning 2<sup>nd</sup> place overall in the juniors (16-18) age class aboard his Versus Blitz II slopestyle bike.
    “The terrain at the boneyard was challenging but flowy, it was a slopestyle rider’s dream. I had my bike dialed for this course in a slopestyle single speed setup. The Blitz II felt “Hella” comfortable in the air and solid on the landings. There are some “big” stunts in the Boneyard and the Blitz saved me on a couple of landings where a bike of lesser travel and stiffness would have felt sketchy and unstable. Its geometry is spot-on and the rear end felt solid. The Blitz II felt “balanced” and it gave me the confidence to “style” more of the tricks”… says Andrew when asked about his two runs.”
    “Andrew has been truly steppin’ it up in the “new school”. We are stoked to be part of the vibe by engineering and building products for riders like A.T. and all of the new school of riders out there.” Comps like the Harvest Huckfest for amateurs is great for all riders and the industry in general. We truly hope to see more of these popping up in the future for all to participate in”….says Herb from Versus Cycles.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    There is the Versus. This comes off the Versus site.

    (Whistler, Canada 2006-10-08)

    This years’ Harvest Hu...
    Looked at the Versus and its a nice ride but i think it compromises in standover especially in the larger sizes... with a few twiques i'm sure it could fit the category a little better.
    thats not to say one can't compete and win on one, just that for a larger guy who wanted to say do a tailwhip it might be a little better if you got the TT lower... it may be only inches but it is slight advantage and could make the difference between nailing the whip or casing it.
    Any idea on its weight?
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  34. #34
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    not light

    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    Looked at the Versus and its a nice ride but i think it compromises in standover especially in the larger sizes... with a few twiques i'm sure it could fit the category a little better.
    thats not to say one can't compete and win on one, just that for a larger guy who wanted to say do a tailwhip it might be a little better if you got the TT lower... it may be only inches but it is slight advantage and could make the difference between nailing the whip or casing it.
    Any idea on its weight?

    ~11.25lbs. Medium. Coil DHX. is what i'm seeing for the Blitz II. Put an air shock and you're looking at a pound less.

    Andrew Taylor is a sick guy though. He could rip on anything!
    Last edited by mtb_biker; 01-17-2007 at 07:26 AM. Reason: not light

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    Looked at the Versus and its a nice ride but i think it compromises in standover especially in the larger sizes... with a few twiques i'm sure it could fit the category a little better.
    thats not to say one can't compete and win on one, just that for a larger guy who wanted to say do a tailwhip it might be a little better if you got the TT lower... it may be only inches but it is slight advantage and could make the difference between nailing the whip or casing it.
    Any idea on its weight?
    The frame is designed as a universal slope-style/all mountain, targeted at many different riders with the ability to please all styles. No it is not a slope-style specific design, but it has proven it is capable of performing when called to duty. Versus like other small companys out there keeps an eye on what is the new craze & what they need to do to keep up with the ever expanding styles of riding comming out. You guys at Banshee should understand this, that is why you are looking at a slope-style specific frame to compliment the fleet. I dont remember the weight, but yes it was prety light & very flickable.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    I dont remember the weight, but yes it was prety light & very flickable.
    How do you not remember! You have one and weighed it not but a week or so ago Alzheimer's?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    How do you not remember! You have one and weighed it not but a week or so ago Alzheimer's?
    No picking on the elders!!!

    I belive TerrorFirma was asking about the compleat bike build weight not just the frame.
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  38. #38
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    Looks good! So howsabout a shorter travel version for 4x/ ds/ dj/ fun bike?
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    Looks good! So howsabout a shorter travel version for 4x/ ds/ dj/ fun bike?
    haha... stay tuned...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardcore newbie
    looks like one of the iron horses
    asside from the whole replacing DW link with horst. Im not a fan of horst links.. wish they'd get a tiny bit inventive on the suspension design.

    To me it just looks like another 4-bar horstlink kona clone, short travel and beefy.

    Personally I'd rather have a bottlerocket.
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  41. #41
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    One part of this that nobody has really commented on is the variety of rockers that will be available when it's released.
    dbabuser:
    "I have been in discussions with North Shore Billet to create aftermarket micro adjustable rocker plates for the Wildcard so the rider can customize his ride and get a greater range of travel settings..."

    you'll probably be able to tweak the travel to tighten things up, I can only speculate, but maybe as little as 4.5". I really like the idea of offering more plates to choose from. A bigger guy like me could sure be happy with a heavy-duty solid rocker instead of the light webbing design

    I really like the flow of the frame, reminds me of the Scratch. In about 18mo when I'm looking to upgrade my Chap to something with better standover I've got something to look forward to.
    I hope the ETT is nice and long in the final build too


    On a side note, did anyone else happen to read the other things about

  42. #42
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    To clear up some confusion that I'm hearing...I'm amazed by the number of people out there who don't realise that VPP, Faux-bar, thrust link, lawwill, horst link, are all variations of 4 bar linkages.

    basically if a linkage has 4 bars (say in case of faux bar) the 4 effective bars are...

    Chainstay
    Seatstay
    Rocker
    Front traingle (it counts cos thats what the others pivot on)

    so yeah a 4 bar linkage is probably one of the most comonly used arrangements to induce mechanical movement in the world. and I think just about all bike suspension designs other than single pivot and yeti 303 count as 4 bar linkages, only thing that changes is the way they are arranged.

    just wanted to clear that one up as it seems to cause a lot of confusion!

    Keith

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karupshun
    One part of this that nobody has really commented on is the variety of rockers that will be available when it's released.
    dbabuser:
    "I have been in discussions with North Shore Billet to create aftermarket micro adjustable rocker plates for the Wildcard so the rider can customize his ride and get a greater range of travel settings..."

    you'll probably be able to tweak the travel to tighten things up, I can only speculate, but maybe as little as 4.5". I really like the idea of offering more plates to choose from. A bigger guy like me could sure be happy with a heavy-duty solid rocker instead of the light webbing design

    I really like the flow of the frame, reminds me of the Scratch. In about 18mo when I'm looking to upgrade my Chap to something with better standover I've got something to look forward to.
    I hope the ETT is nice and long in the final build too


    On a side note, did anyone else happen to read the other things about
    this is something that we are excited about as well... instead of the rider just being able to adjust and change the parts that build up the bike, they will be able to totally adjust the feel of the bike hopefully, there will not be the otpion of more travel, however there should be choice of less travel, and less travel with a smaller shock as well as changing the nature of the travel from progressive to linear or even more progressive, whatever the rider wants!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    To clear up some confusion that I'm hearing...I'm amazed by the number of people out there who don't realise that VPP, Faux-bar, thrust link, lawwill, horst link, are all variations of 4 bar linkages.

    basically if a linkage has 4 bars (say in case of faux bar) the 4 effective bars are...

    Chainstay
    Seatstay
    Rocker
    Front traingle (it counts cos thats what the others pivot on)

    ...only thing that changes is the way they are arranged.

    just wanted to clear that one up as it seems to cause a lot of confusion!

    Keith
    Yes, each variation all works on the principle of using a parrallogram shape as suspension, but to call them 'all the same' is a little obtuse

    each having it's own classification helps readers understand how/where pivots are, where compression forces are applied to the front triangle and a multitude of physics and forces I do not understand

    A Horst link is not the same as a faux bar, neither are they the same as VPP, each may move the rear wheel in a similar pattern when compressed, but each do so in vastly different ways

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karupshun
    Yes, each variation all works on the principle of using a parrallogram shape as suspension, but to call them 'all the same' is a little obtuse

    each having it's own classification helps readers understand how/where pivots are, where compression forces are applied to the front triangle and a multitude of physics and forces I do not understand

    A Horst link is not the same as a faux bar, neither are they the same as VPP, each may move the rear wheel in a similar pattern when compressed, but each do so in vastly different ways
    oh yeah totally! sorry didn't mean to suggest they were all the same, merely that they are all 4 bar linakge designs after recieving comments like thats not a 4 bar design, it's a faux bar design.

    I agree totally... infact I might write a little bit about what i think of each of them...

  46. #46
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    each linake design has their place...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    but only if designed well. Each design has it's benifits, and fans. But any linkage style can be designed badly to produce an awful feeling bike, or designed well to produce a great feeling bike.

    for me... what do i like...

    well I like the simplicity of single pivot... but don't like the flexiness and the poor leverage ratio that often comes with it.

    I like the predictability and stiffness of the Faux bar, and the tunability of the leverage ratio, however brake jack can on some designs still be an issue (to some people), as can add weight over comparable single pivot designs.

    Virtual pivot designs... these can be great, but can be awful... there is a very fine line between them, and the designer has to be careful to get it spot on (so far nearly all the virtual pivot bikes I have looked at have poorly designed linakges).. 1mm off on a pivot location, and the whole character of the suspension will be off. however it is possible to fine tune an axle path and leverage ratio very effectively to get possibly the best linakge possible... although achieving the stiffness of the faux bar is difficult and potentially adds weight if not thought out.

    Horst link... I'm not a fan, it keeps the chain stretch minimal... but at the cost of a more vertical axle path which is a very bad thing for square edge impacts and pedaling efficiency. ok so brake "jack" might be reduced, but I personally don't mind a bit of brake "squat"(this is what really happens) it balances the bike... and teaches you to use your brakes more effectively.

    Lawill design (like Yeti DH9 or schwin straight 8) in theory a great linakge design, active under braking, tunable leverage ratio, tunable axle path..... the downfall... weight, it weighs a lot and still has mega lateral flex... however in years to come as materials improve this might be the way forward... will be interesting to see...

    hardtails rocks for most riding! I rode mine at whistler and hit everything on the bottom half of the mounatin including clownshoes drop and boneyard stuff... was great fun, but hurt my ankles and is hard work!


    on the whole... my vote goes... erm... where does it go... I'm torn between Faux-bar and Virtual pivot linkage.

    (and yes I have done a lot of research into different designs and performaned many a calculation) however at the end of the day you have to ride the bike to see what you like, everyone has a personal preferance.

    Just enjoy riding!

    Keith

  47. #47
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    With every suspension design there are inherent setbacks about each

    I can't wait to see the all this new stuff coming out from a lot of manufacturers.

  48. #48
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    looks like a shmider
    IS THIS SOMETHING YOU CAN SHARE WITH THE REST OF US AMAZING LARRY ?!?!?!

    aircooled VW FTW

  49. #49
    mtbr remember
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    I can't wait to see the all this new stuff coming out from a lot of manufacturers.
    Sinister VST.
    can't wait... well, can't afford, but still can't wait...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    Sinister VST.
    can't wait... well, can't afford, but still can't wait...

    Yea definitely amazing stuff coming in the pipe to check!

  51. #51
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    its defatly an industry that is evolving quickly, thats for sure!

  52. #52
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    its definatly an industry that is evolving quickly, thats for sure!

  53. #53
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    sorry...
    its spot the difference... engineers aren't the best spellers on the whole!

  54. #54
    ride hard take risks
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    Are you guys at Banshee getting bored talking over the cube walls so you decided to use MTBR as your email.
    Formotion Products
    http://www.formot

  55. #55
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    nah, just wanted to be there for anyone who had questions to ask...

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    nah, just wanted to be there for anyone who had questions to ask...
    That's what i'm talking about

  57. #57
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    nah, just wanted to be there for anyone who had questions to ask...
    Nice tactic
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  58. #58
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    That's what i'm talking about
    With a spoon.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Nice tactic

    I think it's genious to go and let a forum rip apart a product in development. How harsh is everyone on this board about anything & everything? someone ALWAYS finds fault with something

    might as well get the public opinion before a proto is even welded.

    It's nice to see a company building a bike that the public actually *wants*

  60. #60
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    they updated the geometry I saw on their blog so if you got a suggestion...

    https://bansheebikes.blogspot.com/20...-geometry.html


  61. #61
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    hallelujah the large is a near perfect size for me Finally a low slung bike for tall people I can actually get

    I'm interested to see the protos with some wheels on it. on paper it sits almost an inch higher in the BB than a BottleRocket

    The wildcard should have sliding dropouts to make it complete

  62. #62
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    it only sits an inch higher when at the 6.5" travel setting, when you make it 5" it sits around the same, and that is with 2.5" tires!

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