888 intergarted stem or not- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    888 intergarted stem or not

    Am building a vp-free with 888rc (200mm) forks and wanted input on whether to go with the intergated stem or a Envy 50mm one I have.

  2. #2
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    I don't like the setup, because......

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFish
    Am building a vp-free with 888rc (200mm) forks and wanted input on whether to go with the intergated stem or a Envy 50mm one I have.

    My kids both have Super T's (similar if not same stem config) and stem/headset interface routinely loosend on their bikes. I feel that the amount of steer tube that the center clamp on the top crown grips onto is insuffcient to take hard riding abuse (read freeriding and jumping). This situation would be similar to a piece of furniture with a dowel inserted into a shallow hole...raking forces (nearly identical to what a long-travel fork undergos) will eventually wiggle the dowel out of the hole or weaken the joint.

    I installed Diabolous stems on both bikes (after having new steer tubes pressed in by Zocchi) and I have not had to tighten the setup once (incidently, they have been riding harder and going much bigger than when they were using the integrated stem setup).

    My two cents worth
    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller

  3. #3
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    intergarted ....will make you a better rider
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wXman
    I installed Diabolous stems on both bikes (after having new steer tubes pressed in by Zocchi) and I have not had to tighten the setup once (incidently, they have been riding harder and going much bigger than when they were using the integrated stem setup).)


    How much did Zoke charge you for the steerer tube press?
    "Korash your enemiez, zee zem driven bevore you, and ear ze lamentation of za vemen"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by e<i>o
    How much did Zoke charge you for the steerer tube press?
    70 bucks...

    35 for a steerer and 35 for labor....


  6. #6
    SNOWRIDER
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    intergarted ....will make you a better rider

    I would like to hear your reasoning behind that statement
    "If you don't go [skibiking] this year, you'll be at least one year older when you do." ~ Warren Miller
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  7. #7
    Disco-Superfly
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    I like the intergrated... You just put it on and it's perfectly lined up. That's how I like it.
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  8. #8
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    Well....as you might surmise, there is a MUCH longer story here about the bikes being built somewhat incorrectly set up by the place I bought them at. Kona actually covered the cost...it cost me shipping and some sweet talking of various CS departments at Kona, Zocchi, and my LBS. Props to Kona and Zocchi though - they made it right.

    normally they charge about $75 plus shipping I think
    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller

  9. #9
    gnar, brah
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    I tossed my integrated stem off and used a Thomson Elite stem. Thomson makes some dope stuff.
    Trestle Bike Park

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deweydude
    I would like to hear your reasoning behind that statement
    ummm...
    i think that may have been a play on the misspell

  11. #11
    Now with flavor!!
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    Integrated stems help steering in chop. They reduce the minute amount of flex that occurs in fork crowns by turning the crown directly rather than all the transfer through the steerer tube. I can tell a difference, some can't. Where I usually ride is overly rough and tight though.

    I rode the stupid long zoke stem for a year with my 888 just because it was bolted to the crown even though I would have preferred a shorter one. I did have to put loctite on the underside bolts to keep them from loosening though.

    I've got a go-ride top crown with a bolt on moto-style stem and it makes me happy. Marzocchi can be stupidly stubborn sometimes.

  12. #12
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    Integrate

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFish
    Am building a vp-free with 888rc (200mm) forks and wanted input on whether to go with the intergated stem or a Envy 50mm one I have.
    I run the integrated stem on mine with a 31.8 Evolve bar and it's the stiffest front end I've had yet. I doubt you'd get that solid a feel from a Diabolus or something else. Everyone else is right too, you never have to worry about the bars gettin outta wack. Very solid front end IMO.
    You have bleed with Wallace.....now bleed with me!

  13. #13
    BJ-
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    I like the intergrated... You just put it on and it's perfectly lined up. That's how I like it.
    youve never ridden a 888 then have you, also its called a direct mount, an intergrated stem is like what Manitou does with the Dorado and there new DH fork...

    but as far as the direct mount 888 stem goes, id definatly reccomend you getting one, there stiff, compact, strong and sit the bars right where i like them, i did break mine on saturday but now thats its fixed and i found out why it happened my faith has been restored and all is well, great innovation as far as im concerned, im not going back from direct mount stems now that ive been using one for a while and my next fork will definatly have to have one...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
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  14. #14
    Team Sanchez
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    I'm 6'2, and ditched the integrated stem. I too am running a 200mm 888RC on a VP Free, and with the integrated stem, the bike felt like an XC bike, so I put in an inch of steertube spacers, and a 80mm DH stem, and it feels much better.
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ-
    youve never ridden a 888 then have you, also its called a direct mount, an intergrated stem is like what Manitou does with the Dorado and there new DH fork...
    .
    Yeah!!! Take that you lowlife!!!

  16. #16
    BJ-
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    Yeah!!! Take that you lowlife!!!
    carefull, you called it an intergrated stem also...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    everybody was dressed nice...I had shorts, Rogue T-shirt and sandles

  17. #17
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    Thanks for all the replies people, will try the intergrated (whoops, direct mount) and see how I like it. As for bagging me for calling it intergrated, chill out, who gives a f*** what its called you all knew what I was talking about !!!

  18. #18
    BJ-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Fish
    Thanks for all the replies people, will try the intergrated (whoops, direct mount) and see how I like it. As for bagging me for calling it intergrated, chill out, who gives a f*** what its called you all knew what I was talking about !!!
    just hatin the noobs that have never seen a 888, and they are quite different...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    everybody was dressed nice...I had shorts, Rogue T-shirt and sandles

  19. #19
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    i use the integrated stem and quite like it

  20. #20
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    outta curiosity - those that like the "direct mount" stem ;-)

    what headset are/were you running with it?

    My kids had the stock K9 headset on their StinkyP's and the combo of that headset, SuperT fork and stem just wouldn't stay tight. I had to adjust them nearly EVERY ride.

    I installed CK headsets with RF diabolous stems..and Whalla! no more issues...not once since I made the change.


    Oh and BTW, the stem holds the bars just fine....at a very comfy, performance enhancing posistion....maybe if Zocchi added some weight *GASP* and changed the design to a true integrated stem/bar mount (so it captured and held the steer tube)....that would really be the shiznits.....IMO
    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller

  21. #21
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    wXman, the headset doesn't affect the top crown/stem at all. if you think using a CK headset solved "your problems," you suffer from Newbie Upgrade Topshelfitis.

    Pig DH Pro at 1/3 the cost of a CK would have "solved your problems" and left a whole lot more $$ in your pockets.

    you probably drive a huge SUV.

  22. #22
    Keep on Rockin...
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    I like the direct mount...

    It's what's on my '05 Jr. T ( Well actually I put an HSCV cart in one leg so I guess it's now an '05 Super T)... but, anyway...

    I've never had mine loosen on the upper crown; probably because I use a torque wrench and thread locker.

    The top crown-headset interface loosened once and I'm quite sure that was just the headset settling in. Belive it or not I'm still using an old Aheadset with the big ol' caged bearings. It's a bit sloppy to work with when removing the fork but the larger bearings (as compared to the tiny ones in most cartridge bearing headsets) are very durable. I've had the thing for over 4 years, and though I plan on "upgrading" to a different headset when this one croaks, it just won't die. I doubt if choice of headset will make much of a difference with loosening.

    Back to the stem. From a physics standpoint the integrated stem creates a much stiffer interface. Whether you'll notice it on the trail is another thing. It also ensures a straight bar mount. It won't twist in a wreck (maybe not a good thing). And... it looks cool. The shiny red shim is sharp.

    Mike

  23. #23
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    easy there gonzo...your fangs are showing


    And as far as me driving an SUV, being a noob with topshelfitis, and wasting my $$....
    ~:| OI! I'll resist the bait on all but one point

    you're right! I'm an elitist, SUV driving noob, with too much $$ and more than enough time on my hands....ohmygosh! they're onto me!!! :-)
    Last edited by wXman; 05-16-2005 at 02:06 PM.
    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ-
    carefull, you called it an intergrated stem also...
    Show me where I called the 888 stem an intergrated stem.


    Didn't happen.

    yet


    Okay here you go.

    The 888 stem is an integrated stem.

  25. #25
    rollin
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    the reason the headsets were loosening was because the super t integrated stem doesn't clamp the steertube. the 888 integrated stem clamps around the steertube, creating more clamping surface, so it doesn't loosen.
    i like the integrated stem...er...bolt on i mean direct mount.

  26. #26
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    actually it does clamp the steer tube....and both stanchions.....there is a clamp around each of them..
    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller

  27. #27
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    The greatest bonus of a direct mount stem(perfectly aligned bars that DON'T move)can also be it's greatest downfall....

    IT DOES NOT FEEL GOOD TO HUG YOUR HANDLEBARS DURING A CRASH IF THEY DON'T TWIST.

  28. #28
    rollin
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    Quote Originally Posted by wXman
    actually it does clamp the steer tube....and both stanchions.....there is a clamp around each of them..
    naw. i'm talking about the bolt on stem, not the crown.
    the super t bolt-on/integrated/direct-mount stem does not clamp the steetube, it just attaches directly to the upper crown. the 888 direct mount stem does both, attach to the upper crown and to the steertube.
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    Last edited by sriracha; 05-17-2005 at 09:55 AM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wXman
    outta curiosity - those that like the "direct mount" stem ;-)
    what headset are/were you running with it?
    I've run a Super T (3 yrs ago), Shiver (2 yrs ago), and 2 888s (last year and this year), all with integrated stems. I ran FSA Pig DH headsets until one broke, now only run Kings (sorry Gonzo, Pigs are great cheap headsets for most people, but not as durable as Kings). The 888 has a different integrated stem than the old Super T/Shiver model -- the top crown has a pinch bolt that clamps on to the steerer tube, and the integrated stem has another pinch bolt that clamps on to the steerer tube.

    All 4 integrated stems loosened initially. It's normal for things to loosen up within the first few rides, as everything settles in. If it keeps loosening, here are the things to try:
    blue Loctite
    new star nut (a bad star nut that slowly slides up the steerer tube = chronic loosening)
    face and ream the headtube for proper headset alignment

    Also it helps with the Super T / Shiver to cut the steerer tube a little long and throw a headset spacer on top of the crown, so that the crown will have full contact with the steerer tube.

  30. #30
    rollin
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    the new go-ride lowering crowns with the switch stem/integrated crown are similar to the super-t and shiver setup, in that the upper crown only has one pinch bolt on the steertube. the switch stem bolts directly to the crown and not the steertube. i wonder if people are have similar persistant loosening issues with the go-ride setup, beyond the initial setting period.
    anyone?

  31. #31
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    you have described my experience nearly perfectly.... And the spacer is key too. Whomever built my kid rigs cut the damn steer tube hella short, just couldn't get a good grip on things in there. In fact my kids split the original head set cap trying to tighten things up.

    It sounds like the "new" version of the direct handlebar mount is much better. The orignal really doesn't have enough "meat" gripping the steer tube to really hold things in place. Having a clamp on the steer tube at the crown and also on the handlebar mount sounds like a great improvement.
    "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller

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