2012 Fox TALAS 180 seems stiff...- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327

    2012 Fox TALAS 180 seems stiff...

    here is the setup
    Santa Cruz Nomad 2.0
    2012 Talas 180


    Fork is setup as follows:
    - 55 psi (I weight 200lbs with riding gear)
    - high and low speed compression both turned all the way to the minus
    - rebound is set 1 click to the slow side of middle.

    tire pressure is spot on 31psi (tubless Minnon's if it matters)

    the issue:
    The fork feels very stiff over the choppy small stuff and sluggish over babyheads..

    I have a 2011 Talas 150 on a blur LT setup almost identically and it is a "dialed" runs great, snappy and wonderful...

    any suggestions would be terrific...

  2. #2
    C__Corax
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    361
    new forks need to be broken in, but it's clearly broken it says fox. lol

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    new forks need to be broken in, but it's clearly broken it says fox. lol
    The fork/bike does have about 200-300 miles into it.. I've been fighting the issues since I assembled the rig.


    Every time I think I have it fixed, the next ride it stiffens up again.

    I also recently moved to Denver from near sea level. I'm not sure if elevation would have anything to do with it...

    Thinner oil perhaps?

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    691
    My float 180 was feeling like that after a bit of riding. I changed the oil and made sure the foam rings were well saturated. Fox says to change the oil every 25 hours of use. Made a big difference with mine. Maybe some slick honey and store it upside down?

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 11053's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,403
    There is a well documented problem with a failing scraper seal on the 2011/2012 Fox Float 180s.
    Not sure if the Talas suffers the same problem, but loss of travel and a fork that feels too stiff/too progressive is the symptom.
    Bath oil enters the air chamber and the travel is reduced and the fork feels stiff early in the stroke.
    Call Fox and ask them if 2012 180 Talas has the same issue that the Float does.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    solid advice... and helps me feel like I'm not crazy... thanks gents..

  7. #7
    Well Biked
    Reputation: scepticshock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,920
    How much sag does that PSI get you? How much travel do you typically use in the ride? I am almost your weight and run 65 PSI. I think If I reduced it below that I would have to damp it a lot.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    666
    Is the 55 psi the recommended air pressure within the Fox Manual for your weight? I remember for my weight they recommended 65 psi which made the fork feel horrible and SUPER STIFF. Run it at 45 psi now adjusting the compresion only and completely differenc story. I actually use my full travel only on big hits. Small bump side of things is perfect.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gticlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,654
    I have 2 Float 180 forks. One is on my Firebird (heavier build, and loving it) and one is on my Nomad Carbon (lighter buildISH!). Both are plush but suck the big stuff up.

    I have to say the 2012 is a little bit more refined than the 2011 for trail riding but it's really subtle. I'm running 5cc float fluid on top of the piston, the seal mod (Fox will send them to you if you have bath oil to piston leakage free of charge). I'm more like 230 plus equipment. I use every single bit of my 180mm of travel and it's damn good travel. I've set the HSC so that if it's even 1 click more it won't use all the travel on my ride. Your psi dosen't sound excessive... how many CC on top of the piston do you have? What are your settings?
    "It looks flexy"

  10. #10
    Now with More Wood
    Reputation: Iceman2058's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,964
    Nothing to say about the fork, no experience to share. Nice bike however!
    Small thing: Since you probably climb with that bike, I'd try the new High Roller 2 in the rear if I was you. Just as good descending, way better to climb with. The old DHR is a pig when you have to pedal anywhere.

  11. #11
    KoNa KiD
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    325
    Ive got the same fork as you and weigh in at 190ish. Im pretty sure i dont have my PSI that high, i first set it to the fox recomendation in the manual and it felt stiff, so i just bled air out till it felt good and adjusted the dampening. now its butter smooth

    Maybe try that.....nice bike though, how much does it weigh?
    Pedalshop
    Transition Bike Co.

    dont touch the dirt

  12. #12
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,280
    I have the same fork and it's running much plusher, as at my weight of 170lb I run 55psi, 2/3 LSC, 1/3 HSC. I've changed the chassis oil a couple times but I'd like to relube the TALAS seals for more small bump sensitivity. Can someone post a link to TALAS service instructions? Do you need some special inflation needle or other unique tool before opening the TALAS cart?
    Last edited by Lelandjt; 05-30-2012 at 10:03 AM.
    Keep the Country country.

  13. #13
    Fence guru
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    740
    Yes you need some special tools to service the talas cartridge.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman2058 View Post
    The old DHR is a pig when you have to pedal anywhere.
    AGREED! we rode Northstar all summer and it was good there... Since moving to Colorado I have switched to smaller, lighter tires. Once woren out will be making the upgrade to the HR2's.

    ..and thanks for the compliment on the bike... i loves it lots...

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by lax30 View Post
    nice bike though, how much does it weigh?
    A lot... mostly in the tires/wheels... I am also a Stan's whore... which doesn't help.
    I think its currently at about 39lbs..

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    I am getting about the right amount of sag (25% ish), recommend in the fox manual is 90 PSI...

    Based on the feedback I'm getting here, I will pull it apart put a little lighter weight oil in there and give it a go.

    thanks again for all the feedback, it's very much appreciated!

  17. #17
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,280
    Quote Originally Posted by WilburKookmeyer View Post
    Based on the feedback I'm getting here, I will pull it apart put a little lighter weight oil in there and give it a go.
    I don't think anyone said to do that. The air and damper carts are sealed so you'd just be putting lighter lube oil in the chassis which won't stay on the upper bushings and seals as well.
    Eveyone else (including much lighter people) think the stock damping oil is fine so don't open the damper.
    That leaves air build up in the legs, a dry/dirty chassis, or TALAS cart that's dry or has too much oil in the wrong place as the likely culprits. Do a chassis service according to Fox's instructions and consider sending the TALAS cart to Fox for a service*.

    *They really aren't home servicable?
    Keep the Country country.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: delnorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,237
    4 words: Should've bought a Totem.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gticlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,654
    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    4 words: Should've bought a Totem.
    If you like the oil on the OUTSIDE of your fork
    "It looks flexy"

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    If you like the oil on the OUTSIDE of your fork
    one word

    "Bingo"

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: delnorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,237
    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    If you like the oil on the OUTSIDE of your fork
    I'd rather have a bit of oil on the fork than actual performance issues, which are constant in Fox Forks. Never had oil issues on both of my Totems, and never had performance issues, either.
    Totems are almost too easily consumer maintaimed/modified and the 40mm stantions are bomber, which as a 200lb guy, like the OP, I'd be all over. Add to that the better price and I don't know why anyone would go with the Fox w/ 36mm stantions over the Totem.
    If oil spews out a little, simlpy wipe it down and add to it after a few rides, as many do. That's better than the isuues of the Fox Talas 180 any day. Carry on...

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: delnorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,237
    Quote Originally Posted by WilburKookmeyer View Post
    one word

    "Bingo"
    ...says the man who's fork doesn't work.

  23. #23
    Alt-132
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,564
    I have a '10 Fox 36 TALAS (160mm travel), I'm a few pounds lighter, and my baseline air spring pressure is 52 psi. Assuming my fork air spring works similar to yours, and the other comments, air spring pressure is probably not the issue.

    One thing that nobody else has mentioned yet: rebound damping. Again, assuming your fork is similar to mine, I run quite a bit faster rebound. From my experience with Fox forx, just past halfway through the range of rebound damping is pretty dang slow if you want the tire to track well over chop- you're probably thoroughly into the "huck damping" range

    Btw, I also live in Denver, and I'm always a sucker for helping people with suspension. PM me if you're looking to ride.

  24. #24
    Well Biked
    Reputation: scepticshock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,920
    Can you really ride that way with the dampers backed all the way off? I have a 2012 Talas 180. and I can pretty much bottom the travel at 55 PSi with both HS and LS dampers dialed all the way off on my driveway. (my riding weight about the same as yours.) YOU might try a bit of Slick Honey on the stantions, and flip the bike over for 10 minutes before a ride to get the oil to the seals.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    256
    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Clydesdale View Post
    There is a well documented problem with a failing scraper seal on the 2011/2012 Fox Float 180s.
    Not sure if the Talas suffers the same problem, but loss of travel and a fork that feels too stiff/too progressive is the symptom.
    Bath oil enters the air chamber and the travel is reduced and the fork feels stiff early in the stroke.
    Call Fox and ask them if 2012 180 Talas has the same issue that the Float does.
    This is correct information. Fox has a big problem with a number of its forks, but they are not very keen on admitting to it. They like to blame the fork issues on the user. They typically will say that the user did not do the proper maintenance every 25 to 40 hours and then tell you that the warranty does not cover the issues. Bad customer service. My guess is that they are hoping time will pass and the consumer moves on without figuring out that they have a serious flaw with their product, thus negating the huge costs of doing a recall and replacing the thousands of fox forks that are on so many bikes.

    Granted, when the fork is running right and has has the proper repairs that should have been done at the factory, the Float is a great performer. It is lame that Fox is screwing its customers by blaming the problems on the consumer, when they are aware that they have an issue that is not the consumers fault. Even worse, if you do not get the proper fix on your fork, the Kashima coating comes off and the fork is trashed . . . $1200 down the drain. And Fox will blame it on you so they do not have to replace the fork.

    Seems like Fox may be going the path of Marzocci. Too big to care . . . just before the fall. By the way, Rock Shox will pretty much do everything under the sun to win your business and will repair and replace products that have problems very liberally. My next fork will come from Rock Shox, not fox.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gticlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Punta Lobos View Post
    This is correct information. Fox has a big problem with a number of its forks, but they are not very keen on admitting to it. They like to blame the fork issues on the user. They typically will say that the user did not do the proper maintenance every 25 to 40 hours and then tell you that the warranty does not cover the issues. Bad customer service. My guess is that they are hoping time will pass and the consumer moves on without figuring out that they have a serious flaw with their product, thus negating the huge costs of doing a recall and replacing the thousands of fox forks that are on so many bikes.

    Granted, when the fork is running right and has has the proper repairs that should have been done at the factory, the Float is a great performer. It is lame that Fox is screwing its customers by blaming the problems on the consumer, when they are aware that they have an issue that is not the consumers fault. Even worse, if you do not get the proper fix on your fork, the Kashima coating comes off and the fork is trashed . . . $1200 down the drain. And Fox will blame it on you so they do not have to replace the fork.

    Seems like Fox may be going the path of Marzocci. Too big to care . . . just before the fall. By the way, Rock Shox will pretty much do everything under the sun to win your business and will repair and replace products that have problems very liberally. My next fork will come from Rock Shox, not fox.

    I'll completely disagree with this. Every time I've called FOX, they have been super helpful. I had a creaky steer - one call and I have a new set of uppers on the thing. I had a creaky Lyrik 170 DH and they told me to go pound sand.
    "It looks flexy"

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: eurospek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,473
    Hasn't been mentioned yet, but the OP has a 2011 Talas 180. 2012 is darker Kashima with logos and gold decals instead of blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay;9362987[B
    ]I'll completely disagree with this. Every time I've called FOX, they have been super helpful. [/B] I had a creaky steer - one call and I have a new set of uppers on the thing. I had a creaky Lyrik 170 DH and they told me to go pound sand.
    This x 100

    Every time I called to Rockshox/SRAM, the usual response given was to head into the LBS for any service or even attaining a simple part like a travel spacer.

    With FOX, they shipped me the needed spacers gratis, and last fork (2011 Float 36) I sent in for rebound side clunking came back with a full service performed, SKF seals installed, new bushings, and brand new lowers as well, as I've mentioned I had the top post mount thread a bit stripped. They replaced it all for free under warranty. Now that's service!

  28. #28
    Living the High Life
    Reputation: Ithnu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,543
    If you have the sag set correctly it's most likely your damping. Ride with everything completely open at first and change rebound, LSC and HSC until the fork feels good, then go a bit further until you don't like it and back it off to the good spot. Only change 1 setting at a time.

    Or as some one mentioned it could be a defect issue. I remember old Talas forks always had issues, one reason I went with a Float 36 RC2 in 2009. I change the oil and seals on schedule and have zero issues for 3 years.

  29. #29
    Living the High Life
    Reputation: Ithnu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by WilburKookmeyer View Post

    I also recently moved to Denver from near sea level. I'm not sure if elevation would have anything to do with it...

    Thinner oil perhaps?
    Oil is like water, both are incompressible fluids so altitude will have no effect. Boiling point varies with atmospheric pressure but that is a phase change so at that point you have a gas not a liquid. This becomes extreme in vacuum when it boils immediately.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    993
    Something must be up with your fork.

    I have non-Kashima coated Talas 180, not certain, but I believe it is a 2011 model. It was a take-off from a new bike. After a few rides it still didn't feel as it should, and was concerned that perhaps not enough oil was in the fork. If I ran at enough air pressure to get the fork not bottom it felt harsh. With less air if felt okay but I could pretty much bottom it out just bouncing up and down on the bike.

    I had the seals replaced and oil changed. I had forgot to ask the shop to verify if the original oil levels were correct before they dumped the oil. It seems that the oil levels on Fox forks can sometimes be out, either not enough or way too much. As mentioned above oil does not compress, so perhaps in your case, maybe your fork has too much oil.

    The Talas with the aftermarket seals is definitely more plush on the smaller bumps and chop. If I recall correctly, I am running 70-75 psi, 8 or 9 clicks from open on LSC and 9 or 10 clicks from open on the high speed. Never bothered to count the rebound, just set it to where it feels good.

    I find the Talas 180 far more linear than the Talas 160 which is on my trail bike. I can get pretty close to a bottom out on the Talas 180 on a similar size hit that would still leave an inch of stachion showing on the Talas 160. Right now it is feeling pretty good. Haven't had as much riding time on it as I would like, so perhaps I still need to fine tune a little more.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu View Post
    If you have the sag set correctly it's most likely your damping. Ride with everything completely open at first and change rebound, LSC and HSC until the fork feels good, then go a bit further until you don't like it and back it off to the good spot. Only change 1 setting at a time.

    Or as some one mentioned it could be a defect issue. I remember old Talas forks always had issues, one reason I went with a Float 36 RC2 in 2009. I change the oil and seals on schedule and have zero issues for 3 years.
    I have had both my Talas 160 and Talas 180 setup by shops that really know suspension. The Talas 160 was setup by our local suspension guru. I will advise here what was told to me. Start with the LSC/HSC set and near 1/2, I believe about 10 clicks from open. Then set the air pressure recommended or based on sag. You should have you normal riding gear on such as camelback or armor so that you are at your riding weight. Have the bike in a stand or have a friend help. Get on the bike bounce up and down a few times to reset the suspension, push the o-ring back to the seals, stand on the bike as though in a normal riding position don't use the brakes (this is where it helps to have a friend hold the bike steady), as carefully as possible get off the bike trying not to push down on excessively. You now have your sag measurement, adjust air pressure accordingly.

    Once you have you air pressure dialed this way, go out and ride, if required make small adjustment to LSC or HSC to complete the setup to desired feel. It is also important to ensure both the front and back of the bike have the suspension feel as similar as possible to balance it out, unless of course you are on a hardtail.

    Lastly, if you can, try to store the bike with the front wheel attached to a ceiling or hook on the wall. This will keep oil against the seals and prevent them from drying out.

    Cheers and enjoy your ride.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    I'd rather have a bit of oil on the fork than actual performance issues, which are constant in Fox Forks. Never had oil issues on both of my Totems, and never had performance issues, either.
    Totems are almost too easily consumer maintaimed/modified and the 40mm stantions are bomber, which as a 200lb guy, like the OP, I'd be all over. Add to that the better price and I don't know why anyone would go with the Fox w/ 36mm stantions over the Totem.
    If oil spews out a little, simlpy wipe it down and add to it after a few rides, as many do. That's better than the isuues of the Fox Talas 180 any day. Carry on...
    Funny... I don't recall starting a "which fork should I choose thread", but thank you for the very relevant and most helpful feedback..

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.