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Thread: 1.5 vs 66

  1. #1
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    1.5 vs 66

    here are a couple of questions

    1. is the 66 7.5 lbs to make up for the fact that it uses a 1 1/8 steerer not 1.5
    2. is the breakout plus standing up to dh use at under 6lbs
    3. is there any weight savings in using the 1.5 after you factor in the extra heft of the oversized stuff
    4. overall is there any reason to use 1.5 when you could use the slider plus over the breakout
    i know people are going to say that with the 66 you dont need the 1.5 stuff answer is using, but the answer forks are so different than the marz and thats another topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit
    here are a couple of questions

    1. is the 66 7.5 lbs to make up for the fact that it uses a 1 1/8 steerer not 1.5
    2. is the breakout plus standing up to dh use at under 6lbs
    3. is there any weight savings in using the 1.5 after you factor in the extra heft of the oversized stuff
    4. overall is there any reason to use 1.5 when you could use the slider plus over the breakout
    i know people are going to say that with the 66 you dont need the 1.5 stuff answer is using, but the answer forks are so different than the marz and thats another topic.
    1. Partially yes. Large diameter aluminum parts enable light/strong/STIFF construction compared to steel. I haven't ridden the 66, but the Z150 flexed more than the manitou breakout. however there are other weight factors; marz. uses full (not semi) open bath oil. others have noted (and i agree) that the magnesium lowers on the manitou forx are one of the best combinations of light weight and stiffness on the market.
    2. Yes. I haven't seen or heard of any breakage issues. I'm sure there are some, but then that happens w/ pretty much all forks.
    3. Yes. Large diameter aluminum parts enable light/strong/STIFF construction compared to steel.
    4. Depends on your opinion. Personally, for a full on DH bike, I' prefer a DC fork. you can adjust the HT angle. ANd you can get 8 inches of travel. However, since many of us ride bikes that are more in the 7 inch travel range that get used for light DH as well as FR and trailriding, the breakout plus is the obvious choice for that type of versatility. Knee clearance, travel adjust, and tight turn radius, and better for dirt jumping are some of the advantages of SC. However the new RS ride fork has travel adjust FWIW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit
    here are a couple of questions

    1. is the 66 7.5 lbs to make up for the fact that it uses a 1 1/8 steerer not 1.5
    2. is the breakout plus standing up to dh use at under 6lbs
    3. is there any weight savings in using the 1.5 after you factor in the extra heft of the oversized stuff
    4. overall is there any reason to use 1.5 when you could use the slider plus over the breakout
    i know people are going to say that with the 66 you dont need the 1.5 stuff answer is using, but the answer forks are so different than the marz and thats another topic.
    Bolted a 6" sherman 1.5 to my HT recently and can safely say that the fork, combined with 31.8mm bar/stem combo and a 2.5 tire pumped to 35psi is as stiff, probably stiffer than the boxxer on my DH bike. Insanely stiff. The headset is a little heavy, but probably not much heavier than an FSA steel deep insertion HS, and wouldn't run a normal XC HS with the marz fork anyway. Can't comment on long-term durability as haven't had the fork on the bike for that long. Only complaints with the slider is the SPV, a lot of people prefer the TPC+ damping over the 2004 SPV, and haven't had a chance to try out the SPVevolve yet. I know this didn't answer ANY of your questions, but hope it helps anyway.



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    its a tale of two bikes the vp-free with a 66 or the new intense xvp with the breakout plus. it will be used for everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit
    its a tale of two bikes the vp-free with a 66 or the new intense xvp with the breakout plus. it will be used for everything.
    If other than the HT the bikes are identical, why not get the Intense so that you can run either the 66 or a 1.5 breakout plus. If you opt for a 1 1/8 fork you can always run E13 reducers to lower the front end by 1/2" and steepen the HA by half a degree or so. Manitou is running their 6" travel forks with a 1 1/8 steerer so it's not *as* big of a deal as it was last year, but will have to wait and see.

    Hope this helps.

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    1.5

    Can't comment on the R66, so all I can comment upon is the Z150 in comparison to the Breakout Plus @ 7". The Z150 is smooth, terribly smooth, but not so over the top as it makes a whole lot of difference over the Breakout, which is also an incredibly smooth fork. They both have a sort of travel adjust feature, that I like better than RS or Fox's dial method. Its quicker, and easier to flip one switch, rather than to turn a knob around and around to get the travel to lower. Durability, I've seen no problems with either, short term.

    Here is how I think they stack up, assuming the R66 is similar, just more travel, than the Z150:

    Versatility: +R66 (1 1/8th headtube, more headset options and frame choices)
    Features: Even
    Smooth: Even to slightly better on the Zoke (probably, again, haven't seen the R66)
    Weight: +Breakout
    Stiff: +Breakout
    Ease of use: +Breakout (I'm not a fan of the QR20+ system, and haven't seen the new system yet)
    Warranty, etc.: Even
    Headtube angle: Too subjective, but the Zokes are tall

    In short, I think it would be a push on either fork, so I say pick your frame first, then your fork. You can run the R66 on the Intense, not the other way around though....

  7. #7
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    There are more differences

    Quote Originally Posted by esquire
    Can't comment on the R66, so all I can comment upon is the Z150 in comparison to the Breakout Plus @ 7". The Z150 is smooth, terribly smooth, but not so over the top as it makes a whole lot of difference over the Breakout, which is also an incredibly smooth fork. They both have a sort of travel adjust feature, that I like better than RS or Fox's dial method. Its quicker, and easier to flip one switch, rather than to turn a knob around and around to get the travel to lower. Durability, I've seen no problems with either, short term.

    Here is how I think they stack up, assuming the R66 is similar, just more travel, than the Z150:

    Versatility: +R66 (1 1/8th headtube, more headset options and frame choices)
    Features: Even
    Smooth: Even to slightly better on the Zoke (probably, again, haven't seen the R66)
    Weight: +Breakout
    Stiff: +Breakout
    Ease of use: +Breakout (I'm not a fan of the QR20+ system, and haven't seen the new system yet)
    Warranty, etc.: Even
    Headtube angle: Too subjective, but the Zokes are tall

    In short, I think it would be a push on either fork, so I say pick your frame first, then your fork. You can run the R66 on the Intense, not the other way around though....

    The 66 does not have travel adjust.

    The 66 has 888 lowers (no QR20) so it's a true thru axle so it's comparable to the Sherman now in that department (excepting the cracking issues some people have had at the pince bolts).
    "Without the ability to make moral distinctions based on motive, consequences, the ethical constructs of various parties, everything is equal, and you end up with people like Woody Allen: a tiny speck of compacted narcissism, revolving around the dead sun in an empty universe." - James Lileks

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    Wow

    I assumed they'd have the ETA feature that have been on all their longer travel forks for years. I knew they were going away from the QR20+ though, which is a good thing. Those little pieces were expensive.

    Well, if its going to be used for any climbing at all, maybe the Breakout is the fork, since the height and the travel on the R66 would make for a very slack climbing angle.

  9. #9
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    the 66 is only 6.1lbs

    with the manitou firefly 5" 20mm model weighing in at 5.4, the breakout+ shouldn't be lighter, if anything the same or slightly more weight...
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

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    why is everyone talking about the Shermans as if you are stuck with a 1.5 steerer?

    Manitou has several forks with single crown 6" travel and 1.125 steerers.
    - Firefly Plus
    - Flick Plus
    - all Nixon models

    I just put an '05 Firefly Plus on my X-5 and cannot believe how well it works. it definitely is less flexy and has more accurate steering than the '03 Z1 FR QR20 that it replaced. it feels as accurate in the steering dept. as the '03 Super T that I used to ride on an '03 SC Bullit.

    You really should be considering the Firefly Plus against the 66. That's a more accurate comparison. Ignore the Breakout, as it requires the 1.5 steerer and limits your frame choices.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    why is everyone talking about the Shermans as if you are stuck with a 1.5 steerer?

    Manitou has several forks with single crown 6" travel and 1.125 steerers.
    - Firefly Plus
    - Flick Plus
    - all Nixon models

    I just put an '05 Firefly Plus on my X-5 and cannot believe how well it works. it definitely is less flexy and has more accurate steering than the '03 Z1 FR QR20 that it replaced. it feels as accurate in the steering dept. as the '03 Super T that I used to ride on an '03 SC Bullit.

    You really should be considering the Firefly Plus against the 66. That's a more accurate comparison. Ignore the Breakout, as it requires the 1.5 steerer and limits your frame choices.
    well, he is trying to chose a frame, he just doesn't know whether to pick one with a 1.5 headtube or not.

  12. #12
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    the travel adjust on the breakout is a big plus. i hope the intense lets you use a 135mm hub. if they do it will be a done deal for the xvp. i will be climbing xc trails on it. i hope to go to one bike in 05 when i can ride again(back surgery 6 weeks ago) i dont see me going to any lift areas untill late 05. also that 6.5 weight for the 66 is without the steel steerer according to the web site.

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    Never mind
    Last edited by Shibby; 09-21-2004 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Incoherent babble

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    more on the 66:

    here's a pic of a norco HT with a 170mm DC (marz dropoff triple)



    and here it is with the a 170mm 66r



    that fork is TALL.

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    just found out that intense will be offering the uzzi with a 135mm hub option! whoo...ohh! looks like a done deal for the uzzi and 1.5 breakout.

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