XCL: Poor man's Endorphin?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    XCL: Poor man's Endorphin?

    A little while ago, I narrowed down my list of "my next bike" to the XCL, EVO, Knolly Endorphin, V-Tach, El Guapo and SX trail. If I had a bottomless bank account, I'd get the V-Tach or Endorphin in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that is not the case. I am now inclined to get the XCL instead as a "poor man's Endorphin". Am I right in my assessment that the XCL is as burly if not more burly than the Endorphin? I was wondering how the XCL compares to the E in terms of stiffness and durability. I don't need a super stiff bike as I am a light rider but I would like it if the frame didn't flex so much that it screws up the drivetrain and causes undue pivot bearing wear over time. You are all probably wondering why I'm not going with the Evo. From the reviews I've read, I gathered that the Evo has a high BB and standover. Two things that I don't particularly like in a bike, especially one that I'll be using to ride lots of technical and sketchy trails(lots of tricky tech turns with scary exposure). I sold my first full susser for this exact reason. The El Guapo is still beyond my budget while the SX trail is a tad too heavy for my svelte 135lb frame.

    it comes down to the XCL. I'll be using the bike as a go to/do it all bike. From tackling some intemediate north shore stuff (Going to Whistler and Vancouver this summer Woohoo! ), occassional bike park riding (maybe 1-2x a year) to full on epic xc rides.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    That's an incredibly wide range of bikes in terms of intended application. You should probably narrow down what it is you're looking to do and then go from there. Epic XC = XCL, Endorphin. FR = V-Tach. AM, light FR, or whatever you want to call the grey area between XC and FR = EVO, SXT, EG.

    You just can't have them all in one bike.

    I love my XCL, but I wouldn't take it to Whistler unless I was just riding their XC trails. And who goes to Whistler to ride XC?

  3. #3
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    I think he can have it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcc383
    That's an incredibly wide range of bikes in terms of intended application. You should probably narrow down what it is you're looking to do and then go from there. Epic XC = XCL, Endorphin. FR = V-Tach. AM, light FR, or whatever you want to call the grey area between XC and FR = EVO, SXT, EG.

    You just can't have them all in one bike.

    I love my XCL, but I wouldn't take it to Whistler unless I was just riding their XC trails. And who goes to Whistler to ride XC?
    I think this guy CAN have it all in an XCL because of his weight. If he weighed 200 Lbs I would agree w/what you are saying. Not to say that 2 wheelsets and maybe a 2nd fork might not be a bad idea? I ride an XCL and it is a burly bike. I'm 6'2" weigh 225 before Camelbak and do not do big hucks, jumps, etc but do ride rocky terrain. In the last 8 years I have broken 7 frames just due to stress cracks. I was really losing my mind finding a frame to trust. I contacted Chumba w/the title of my E-mail being "I Break Frames" Alan contacted me 20 minutes later and assured me of the strength of their frames. I have a lot of faith in my XCL and it has really impressed me w/it's construction. I do not forsee problems. Neither should this guy at 135 Lbs!

  4. #4
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    as somebody else noted, the range of bikes listed is crazy wide! V-tach and XCL in same comparison?

    Anyway, I have yet to ride a Chumba but damn they look and sound fine! As for the Endorphin, I have now 3 friends who will be riding one and they cant say enough. Considered by two of these guys to have unparalled stiffness but thats subjective of course.....but they have ridden/owned all the top bikes so I tend to take that statement serious though the Chumba no doubt is stiff as well given the killer design. He also sells Chumbas and says thinks very highly of them too.

    I would LOVE to unload one of my bikes (no, not one of my Ventanas!) and get a Chumba XCL. while i am not heavy i am so used to stiff bikes i could not tolerate a noodle which is they Chumba, Knolly, and Ventanas are on my short list for sure

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailout
    A little while ago, I narrowed down my list of "my next bike" to the XCL, EVO, Knolly Endorphin, V-Tach, El Guapo and SX trail.

    Thanks!
    My guess is you're talking about the Delerium T...not the V-Tach, which is a 7.7" travel FR monster.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  6. #6
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    I haven't ridden a Knolly Endorphin yet but I can emphatically say that the XCL is rad. I think it'd meet 90% of your needs. And as the others said, you're probably better off just getting a second bike when funds are available for the more FR oriented stuff.

  7. #7
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    Exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    My guess is you're talking about the Delerium T...not the V-Tach, which is a 7.7" travel FR monster.
    Jeez, I hate posting at 2 AM! I really meant the Delirium-T. Thanks Geo. I don't think it's such a wide range anymore.

    Oh, there's a lot of must do "XC" epics in BC. I just finished fishing around for local knowledge to get the scoop on the Shore and the Whistler valley trails.

  8. #8
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    Get an EVO for All Mtn / Free ride..

    A poor mans bike is sold at wallmart bro..
    beaver hunt

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdrifter
    Get an EVO for All Mtn / Free ride..

    A poor mans bike is sold at wallmart bro..
    well said....aint NOTHING poor man about the Chumba at all. heck, if we used that algorithm, almost everything woudl be a poor mans bike compared to the gheyest of ghey Ti Ellsworth Truth build for $10000....what a friggin joke!

  10. #10
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    Alright Fo, sounds like you need a demo ride. When are you coming down to the OC? We can go beg Chumba for one of the rides from their demo fleet. I will hopefully be getting my new XCL frame soon. Just sold the Blur 4x...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by scruffylooking
    Alright Fo, sounds like you need a demo ride. When are you coming down to the OC? We can go beg Chumba for one of the rides from their demo fleet. I will hopefully be getting my new XCL frame soon. Just sold the Blur 4x...
    i would love to. will let you know if i can ever make it down to the OC

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailout
    Am I right in my assessment that the XCL is as burly if not more burly than the Endorphin? I was wondering how the XCL compares to the E in terms of stiffness and durability. I don't need a super stiff bike as I am a light rider but I would like it if the frame didn't flex so much that it screws up the drivetrain and causes undue pivot bearing wear over time. You are all probably wondering why I'm not going with the Evo. From the reviews I've read, I gathered that the Evo has a high BB and standover. Two things that I don't particularly like in a bike, especially one that I'll be using to ride lots of technical and sketchy trails(lots of tricky tech turns with scary exposure).
    I've never seen an Endorphin, so I can't say if the XCL is burlier or more or less burly. I would definitely say that the XCL is plenty burly enough, and I really don't think you're likely to break it or experience noticeable flex unless you use it WAY outside of it's designed envelope, which is fairly wide. It's a very rugged bike.

    Before writing the Evo off based on numbers, try to ride one. I know what you mean about the BB height and the standover, but once you get on the bike the numbers are just numbers and the bike is very easy to handle and a lot of fun to ride. Of course that's coming from someone 6' tall, with a frame that nobody will ever call "svelte" (imagine a human Evo...).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    well said....aint NOTHING poor man about the Chumba at all. heck, if we used that algorithm, almost everything woudl be a poor mans bike compared to the gheyest of ghey Ti Ellsworth Truth build for $10000....what a friggin joke!
    I agree that there's nothing poor man about Chumba. But... I guess I should confess. When I ride trail I ride an Evo. But when I go out to ride dawn to dusk on rutty rocky roads with long long climbs, I ride... an Ellsworth Truth. With a straight bar, bar ends, and 1.95 tires. Got a killer deal on the frame a couple years ago, and I've come to appreciate it; it does what it's meant to do really well. If that makes me ghey, then so be it I guess.

    In a sane world I'd lose the Truth and the Evo and get an XCL, but who ever said the world is sane? Every frame in the house (and my house looks like a bike shop) is there because we got an insanely good deal on it, none were bought new. My son once said we don't choose our bikes, our bikes choose us, and it really seems that way... so we ride what we get, and enjoy it!

    A real "poor man's Endorphin" would be the Transition Covert, I guess... but I'd rather have an XCL!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailout
    Jeez, I hate posting at 2 AM! I really meant the Delirium-T. Thanks Geo. I don't think it's such a wide range anymore.

    Oh, there's a lot of must do "XC" epics in BC. I just finished fishing around for local knowledge to get the scoop on the Shore and the Whistler valley trails.
    It sounds like you'd be best off with something like a DT or EVO with a little bit slacker angles than an XCL or Endorphin. Possibly with more than one shock/fork combo. With a lighter build, plenty of people ride those frames on "XC epics." With a heavier build, they could both probably handle some shore style riding.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailout
    Am I right in my assessment that the XCL is as burly if not more burly than the Endorphin? I was wondering how the XCL compares to the E in terms of stiffness and durability.
    I wouldn't agree with that assessment actually, the Endorphin is definitely the beefier of the two. If you look at them side by side, hold them in your hands, weigh them, etc. then you can definitely see that the Knolly is the more burly frame (I sell both and own an Endorphin myself, so I'm able to compare them side by side). I don't in any way mean that as a criticism of the Chumba though, it's a sweet frame (especially considering the price) and seems to be very stiff and strong for its weight. I've sold a few and everyone seems to be VERY happy with them.

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
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  16. #16
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    In terms of the "poor man" assessment - I would just like to point out that we've been selling this frame for over ten years at $1,800 per frame. We've just been able to lower the prices through more efficient manufacturing and business processes. The quality and manufacturing precision are probably even slighly better than the ones that were purchased at $1,800. What the XCL really is, imo, is an incredible value. You get the exact same research and design - in-house prototyping, testing, and race development that goes into the world's best frames. With the XCL - there are no short cuts - everything was done with painstaking detail and expense and designed and overseen by Ted Tanouye, CHUMBA's founder.

    And it shows in our results, we've had our frames compared to $2,000+ frames in head-to-head shoot outs all over the world and we've won many of the competitions or at least placed pretty respectably. We've also had customers coming off of frames much more expensive but raved about the XCL's performance. So as for this "poor man" thing - I think it is more fair to characterize it as a "value" thing because in terms of performance and quality - I don't think there is anything out there that is substantially better than what we have to offer (of course I am a little biased ).
    Simple | Proven | Reliable

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    In terms of the "poor man" assessment - I would just like to point out that we've been selling this frame for over ten years at $1,800 per frame. We've just been able to lower the prices through more efficient manufacturing and business processes. The quality and manufacturing precision are probably even slighly better than the ones that were purchased at $1,800. What the XCL really is, imo, is an incredible value. You get the exact same research and design - in-house prototyping, testing, and race development that goes into the world's best frames - with the XCL - there are no short cuts - everything was done with painstaking detail and expense.

    And it shows in our results, we've had our frames compared to $2,000+ frames in head-to-head shoot outs all over the world and we've done pretty darn well. We've also had customers coming off of frames much more expensive but raved about the XCL. So as for this "poor man" thing - I think it is more fair to characterize it as a "value" thing.
    well said. sounds like everybody is saying the same thing as well. it is shocking to me to be honest that you produce such a psick frame for that amount. I am sitting here and even for FoShizzle, I cant justify a new bike but am trying since i really do want one.....i can only think of one bike i could sell to replace with a Chumba (no, not the ventanas) but I have already purchased 2 in the past 3 months I didnt tell my wife about!

  18. #18
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    I had a xcl with a 36 Talas. It is/was a very stiff and capable bike. I rode it at whistler over the course of a few days and it performed well. The XCL can handle the Vancouver/Whistler abuse but, IMO, it is not ideal for bike park use...nor is ANY 5' bike (that includes the Bottlerocket). For that matter, I wouldn't want a 6" travel bike for everyday Whistler/NorthVan use either, YMMV.

    If you can only own one bike, I would select a bike that would cover your everyday riding best. It'll make your EVERYDAY life much better. If you plan on spending a few days/week in the friendly confines of lower British Columbia I would suggest renting a bigger bike...or just suck it up and ride what you got. I see fellows at Whistler having a good time on 4" XC rigs.

    BTW, all the bikes you mentioned are great bikes. You'll not go wrong with any of them...unless they don't fit you right. Try and ride a few of them.

    cheers
    Extreme stationary biker.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventanarama
    I wouldn't agree with that assessment actually, the Endorphin is definitely the beefier of the two. If you look at them side by side, hold them in your hands, weigh them, etc. then you can definitely see that the Knolly is the more burly frame (I sell both and own an Endorphin myself, so I'm able to compare them side by side). I don't in any way mean that as a criticism of the Chumba though, it's a sweet frame (especially considering the price) and seems to be very stiff and strong for its weight. I've sold a few and everyone seems to be VERY happy with them.

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
    [email protected]
    Would you say the Endorphin is burlier because of the extra linkage or the frame itself? The weights of both were very similar or used to be before Chumba lightned the XCL.

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