True temper OXII frame weight/thoughts?

[thebronze]

Got my eye on a no name true temper OXII frame for a full customization-
trick paint job and custom head badge.
I believe its the same maker as KHS because the geometry and material is exactly the same as the KHS steel frames were.
I have never used or ridden OXII and was wondering what to expect?
Under 5 lbs for an XL?
Flex of 853 or the strength of 725?
The frame is dirt cheap so I imagine its probably on par with reynolds 725, not 853.
I currently ride tange prestige but have ridden reynolds 725 (rocky hammer)
Can anyone comment?

[gonzostrike]

OXII is the precursor to OX Gold, which came before OX Platinum.

It's a nice-riding frame as are all True Temper tubes. Their tubes tend to ride nicer than Reynolds 853 IMHO, and firmer AND livelier than lower level Reynolds. just my opinion, no facts/graphs/data to support it.

I would say that if the frame really is cheap ($250 or less) you should go for it just to give yourself a taste of "decent" steel.

I prefer True Temper and Columbus tubing feel over Reynolds, but Reynolds surely makes excellent tubing and has a loyal, sensible following.

[D.F.L.]

You really can't anticipate the ride of a frame by the label on the tubing.

Reynolds offers a pretty wide range of wall thicknesses, even on their 853, so two identical looking frames could feel completely different. 853, for instance, can be built into a frame with ride quality ranging from whippy to unyielding, depending on many factors.

I know that doesn't help you much. Sorry.

[thebronze]

OXII is the precursor to OX Gold, which came before OX Platinum.

It's a nice-riding frame as are all True Temper tubes. Their tubes tend to ride nicer than Reynolds 853 IMHO, and firmer AND livelier than lower level Reynolds. just my opinion, no facts/graphs/data to support it.

I would say that if the frame really is cheap ($250 or less) you should go for it just to give yourself a taste of "decent" steel.

I prefer True Temper and Columbus tubing feel over Reynolds, but Reynolds surely makes excellent tubing and has a loyal, sensible following.

Gonzo i've already got a tange prestige frame but it has no disc mount and the TT is a little short for me so I thought I would try this one.
BTW hows the frame building coming?
Since your a builder, any idea how I would get a custom head badge made?
I thought about making a rubber mold and cast in lead or silver but nowadays
its so much easier just to farm out to a machine shop.
thanks,
toby

[ashwinearl]

Gonzo i've already got a tange prestige frame but it has no disc mount and the TT is a little short for me so I thought I would try this one.
BTW hows the frame building coming?
Since your a builder, any idea how I would get a custom head badge made?
I thought about making a rubber mold and cast in lead or silver but nowadays
its so much easier just to farm out to a machine shop.
thanks,
toby

I think I read one time in the frame builders email list that
Kirk Pacenti
http://www.bikelugs.com/index.html
can get custom head badges made.

can't remember for sure, but you can always ask him, he's pretty hooked up in all aspects of custom frame building.

[DeeEight]

depending on the actual tube specs used in the frame, you could see anywhere from mid 3 pounds on up to six or more pounds out of a OX II tubeset. Just depends on what the designer had in mind for a strength target when designing the frame. A Peyto Ridiculight XC is gonna be lighter than a Oryx HTA 1000 for example.

[gonzostrike]

You really can't anticipate the ride of a frame by the label on the tubing.

Reynolds offers a pretty wide range of wall thicknesses, even on their 853, so two identical looking frames could feel completely different. 853, for instance, can be built into a frame with ride quality ranging from whippy to unyielding, depending on many factors.

I know that doesn't help you much. Sorry.

853 rides differently from OX Platinum and just about any Columbus tube, no matter what gauge and diameter 853 you run.

of course, geometry also affects feel...

but I am talking about a situation where everything else is equal.

for the framebuilder, Reynolds 853 is harder to work with because it tends to be very hard and will dull your files, hole saws, etc faster. this same hardness makes cold working difficult, and also makes 853 feel more like Alu (less compliant, more rigid) than other CrMo alloys.

at least, that's what I have found AND been told by many who've made more frames than I have made or will make.

[D.F.L.]

I'm told that all steel alloys have the same relative 'stiffness' (is it elongation or modulus of elasticity?) It's the tensile strengths that vary so among the different steel alloys, but tensile strength does not affect 'ride'.

If this is the case, then 853 or Platinum will 'ride' exactly like a non-heat treated 4130 tube of equal dimensions. Of course the good stuff will survive much higher loads, but it won't be a bit stiffer.

Now that's just according to the theory and the rumor. I've never seen any data showing that certain alloys are stiffer, but I've not searched for it, either. If you have any links, I'd be interested.

Time to file the lugs...

[gonzostrike]

I agree with much of what you say, DFL

we all know that words like "plush" and "stiff" are very vague, and no self-respecting engineer, metallurgist or materials specialist would use them in a comparative study.

however, I have heard from respected framebuilders that 853 will dull your tools almost as fast as Ti... faster than OX Plat, faster than the lighter versions of Columbus or Dedacciai. So maybe the better term for that particular issue is surface hardness.

also, it seems that frames made from relatively equal tubing dimensions do have some differences in ride feel... I notice differences among different types of tubing, but I have no quantifiable analyzer to settle the score. For sure, every 853 frame I've ridden has felt more like Al than any Columbus or TT frame I've ridden.