Tomac is BACK !!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Good job! Tomac is BACK !!!



    Can't wait to see what will be in store for 2007!!
    check it out!!
    www.tomacbikes.com

  2. #2
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    I'm currently building a "pre Tomac" Tomac Taos...

    Will be interesting to see what they offer.
    Less isn't MOAR

  3. #3
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    Are you sure that's a good thing?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Are you sure that's a good thing?

    Meaning?
    Less isn't MOAR

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    Meaning?
    I think he means that Tomac bikes were always rather ugly

    I hope they come out with a more attractive offering this time around..
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    Meaning?
    Meaning he changed his designs far to frequently, some of the designes flat out sucked, they tended to crack a lot, and so on. Exactly what did tomac bring to the cycling world (as far as frames)??
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7
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    I think the hardtail (Buckshot or something?) looked fairly decent, but the FS were definitely lacking. Would also be nice if they went away from the gun-related model names..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Meaning he changed his designs far to frequently, some of the designes flat out sucked, they tended to crack a lot, and so on. Exactly what did tomac bring to the cycling world (as far as frames)??

    And which FS bike maker HASN'T changed their frames every year or two?

    Despite what has been mentioned about an epidemic of cracked frames, not too many people actually seem to have had it happen.

    All makers experience cracked frames.

    As far as what they bought to the cycling world as far as frames - I'm not sure what that means. Most all makers use the same out of several possible FS designs anyway - look at how Specialized licensed the FSR design to so many others.

    In any case, it appears the new Tomac will feature new designs anyway.
    Less isn't MOAR

  9. #9
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    Santa Cruz sticks with their designs for quite a long time...

  10. #10
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    Cool I think?

    I feel better after reading on the site that the bikes will be all new. I know some loved them but they were some overcomplicated glorified singlepivot or in the case of the six shooter one of the worst engineered and assembled frames I've ever seen. I whatched one of those things break on the trail with no air involved and when it went it sounded like someone swung a 2x4 into a car with all there might, very ugly. When we examined the broken weld there was allmost no penitration; There would have to be some big changes to interest me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Meaning he changed his designs far to frequently, some of the designes flat out sucked, they tended to crack a lot, and so on. Exactly what did tomac bring to the cycling world (as far as frames)??
    That's not Tomes fault... that's a doug bradbury trademark... underweight frames with short fatigue lives. Take it from a Manitou frame owner... its very rare to find one of us who's frame DOESN'T have headtube cracks.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reposado Man
    Santa Cruz sticks with their designs for quite a long time...
    Santa Cruz has stuck with single-pivots because they're not patented. There was no reason to replace something they don't need to pay royalties on. As to their owning the VPP patent now, they haven't exactly gone and replaced all their models with 4-bars now have they, even though a 4-bar is better than a single-pivot.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  13. #13
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    Have they got a new designer, or is it still Doug Bradbury?
    And what about build quality? Is it going to be a LOT better?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    That's not Tomes fault... that's a doug bradbury trademark... underweight frames with short fatigue lives. Take it from a Manitou frame owner... its very rare to find one of us who's frame DOESN'T have headtube cracks.
    No, it's tomac's responsibility, because he's ultimately responsible for the company.

    I saw his "crew" one time at South Mountain in phoenix. I can't say I ever wanted a "tomac" frame apart from the old manitou HTs, but these days I know better about even those frames. The tomac stuff just simply stunk.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    And which FS bike maker HASN'T changed their frames every year or two?
    Despite what has been mentioned about an epidemic of cracked frames, not too many people actually seem to have had it happen.

    All makers experience cracked frames.

    As far as what they bought to the cycling world as far as frames - I'm not sure what that means. Most all makers use the same out of several possible FS designs anyway - look at how Specialized licensed the FSR design to so many others.

    In any case, it appears the new Tomac will feature new designs anyway.
    To name a few (moderate tweaks):
    Ellsworth
    Foes
    Jamis
    Kona
    Rocky Mountain
    Titus
    Turner
    Yeti
    Ventana
    Even Intense and SC.

    I love how you also think that the FSR pivot position is a suspension "design" rather than an aspect of a design that could be just about anything from swing links, struts, and walking beams. Looks like Specialized's marketing worked on some people

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Looks like Specialized's marketing worked on some people

    Nope.

    Nobody's hype has worked on me - that's why I have three hardtails - I hate FS.
    Less isn't MOAR

  17. #17

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    No wonder. You show an obvious lack of understanding for design.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    To name a few (moderate tweaks):
    Ellsworth
    That's naming a brand with a worse durability track record than Tomac Bikes. They've had to do almost yearly "fixes" and redesigns to cover up multiple defects.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  19. #19
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    We talked with Joel Smith (the individual responsible for the rebirth of Tomac). Our exclusive interview can be seen here:

    http://www.mountainbiketales.com/articles/tomac.htm
    Mountain Bike Tales
    Digital Mountain Bike Magazine

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    No wonder. You show an obvious lack of understanding for design.
    I gather that was directed at me.

    I don't have a qualification in metallurgy, physics, engineering or suspension design - I gather you do.

    But having seen many a blown rear shock, loose pivot and ridden a few supposedly efficient FS bikes that pedalled like a sack of treacle - I'll stick to my old fashioned HT's.

    I like my bike on the dirt, not on the work stand.
    Less isn't MOAR

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    That's naming a brand with a worse durability track record than Tomac Bikes. They've had to do almost yearly "fixes" and redesigns to cover up multiple defects.
    But they've kept the same basic designs. The moment is still the moment, the Id was always the Id, and so on. The dare had two versions, but that spanned over about 8 years or so.

    The tomac bikes were always completely different.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    Meaning?
    Meaning I hope we're NOT going to see "designs" like this little gem.

    six_shooter_lg.jpg
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  23. #23

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    It's got rivets like a fighter jet.

  24. #24
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    Yes, that is an extremely ugly bike, and I hear they were a boat anchor too.


    Here's my Tomac project - just need a fork and it's off to the workstand.

    Last edited by Sideknob; 08-05-2006 at 12:33 AM.
    Less isn't MOAR

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blendthree
    We talked with Joel Smith (the individual responsible for the rebirth of Tomac). Our exclusive interview can be seen here:

    http://www.mountainbiketales.com/articles/tomac.htm
    mmm... lots of "brand" marketing speak there. Lets see if the actual bikes are any good this time.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  26. #26
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    Here's mine..


  27. #27
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    That's what I'm talking about!! I bet it's light and fast.

    I just need a fork for mine now, and I'll build it up. Can't wait.
    Less isn't MOAR

  28. #28
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    Good job!

    Thant's a great looking Tomac .

    Quote Originally Posted by jwetsch
    Here's mine..


  29. #29
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    Thanks for the kind words! It's a small and weighs in at 21.5 lbs, and is fast and a very nimble handler.

    Drivetrain is 1996 8spd XT parts (front der. is new 9sp XT), parts were salvaged from my old Manitou HT.
    Raceface Stem and low riser bar, ODI grips.
    Syncros Revolution cranks (square taper baby!)
    Matrix Swami rims
    Conti Explorer Protection 2.1 up front and a 1.9 Twister protection on back.
    Manitou Skareb Elite fork. (I added the TPC lockout though, got tired of getting bucked off when the fork would compress too easily at speed, problem is gone with TPC now.)

    Only thing I'm not 100% sold on is the tire combo. As I've picked up in speed with the bike, I now have some traction issues. Primarily with the semi-slick on back, not too hard, of course, to slide it out around corners. The explorer on the front has never seemed to be a bad tire, but has never really inspired any fearlessness either.

    I'm thinking of either Kenda small block 8 or Maxxis crossmark. I ride mostly hardpack singletrack with some loose top sections. I'm also wondering if I should keep the smaller tire in the back or run same size front and back?

    Or I could just buy another explorer 2.1 for the back?

    Any Thoughts?
    Last edited by drag_slick; 08-02-2006 at 07:04 AM.

  30. #30
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    Specialized

    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    And which FS bike maker HASN'T changed their frames every year or two?
    They've been on that FSR thing since like '95 or so. The basic design is more or less the same today as it was back then, just more travel, nicer lines, less weight and better construction.

  31. #31

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    That bike looks nice in one piece.

  32. #32
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    I know there have been a few cases with Tomac frames on MTBR in the past, but really I’m yet to find any solid mention of consistent Tomac frame breakages anywhere on the boards or on the internet??

    The cases mentioned on MTBR are insignificant to many other “boutique” manufacturers who appear to have a much higher failure rate (production volume aside).

    Looking forward to Sideknob’s finished build.

    Cheers, Dave.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    That bike looks nice in one piece.
    I built it up in the fall of 2004 and the frame is fine so far, no creaking yet, which was the main reason I retired my Manitou before there was a visible crack.

  34. #34
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    jwetsch, thanks for the info on the bike. I don't know why, but I love the look of those frames and would like to get one myself. I would give the Crossmark 2.1's a go front and back. I just put them on my hardtail to replace worn out Larson TT's and I like them better than the TT's. They seem to have a bit more bite and roll just as well.

    8sp XT is a perfect choice! Find spares and stock up whilst you still can!

  35. #35
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    Joel Smith really made Manitou realtively succesfull in the marketplace the last 5 years, he could do the same with the Tomac Brand. I've been hearing rumors that Bradbury really needs the brand to fly this time, as he has pretty much been swindled out of most of his loot from selling Manitou to Answer back in the '90s. ABG was the problem with Tomac bikes, not Bradbury or Tomac. They were pretty brutally ignored by management, and forced to market products they didn't believe in and didn't really have a hand in designing...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    jwetsch, thanks for the info on the bike. I don't know why, but I love the look of those frames and would like to get one myself. I would give the Crossmark 2.1's a go front and back. I just put them on my hardtail to replace worn out Larson TT's and I like them better than the TT's. They seem to have a bit more bite and roll just as well.

    8sp XT is a perfect choice! Find spares and stock up whilst you still can!
    All Mountain,
    Yeah.. I have no urge to go to 9sp, unfortunately the manitou has the braze-on front der so I had to get a nine speed front der, it works fine as long as you don't get caught cross-chaining.

    Are you running the exception series crossmarks or standard?

  37. #37
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    I had to get standard as exception was not available. I think standard is only 60 tpi, but has harder rubber so stay away from wet rocks and roots!

    I would have prefered exception as its 120 tpi and softer. I'm not a racer so I prefer a stickier rubber for safety. I am seriously thinking of putting a set of these on my VT! I currently use Spec Adrenaline front and Roll-X back.

  38. #38
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    Here's my 2003 98 Special. I never had any problems with any cracks and I rode the shiite out of that bike. South Mountain, Sunrise, etc. No freeride stuff, just hard/rocky/technical riding. Anyhow, nothing is left but the frame and shock now. 1st $200 bucks takes it, lol.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuspectDevice
    Joel Smith really made Manitou realtively succesfull in the marketplace the last 5 years, he could do the same with the Tomac Brand. I've been hearing rumors that Bradbury really needs the brand to fly this time, as he has pretty much been swindled out of most of his loot from selling Manitou to Answer back in the '90s. ABG was the problem with Tomac bikes, not Bradbury or Tomac. They were pretty brutally ignored by management, and forced to market products they didn't believe in and didn't really have a hand in designing...
    Just because they are sucessfull doesn't mean they are making good products.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuspectDevice
    Joel Smith really made Manitou realtively succesfull in the marketplace the last 5 years, he could do the same with the Tomac Brand. I've been hearing rumors that Bradbury really needs the brand to fly this time, as he has pretty much been swindled out of most of his loot from selling Manitou to Answer back in the '90s. ABG was the problem with Tomac bikes, not Bradbury or Tomac. They were pretty brutally ignored by management, and forced to market products they didn't believe in and didn't really have a hand in designing...
    Those two names are on the bikes, so how much input were they really denied? And they were making similar looking designs when they were independent, so they did have a hand in designing the bikes. It's just that money talks and Bradbury supposedly getting swindled by a deal he made shows even less for him. That was ten years ago.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Just because they are sucessfull doesn't mean they are making good products.
    Jayem,
    Judging by your posts in this thread, I take it you've had some problems with Tomac / Manitou equipment you've owned in the past. Just curious what problems you've had?

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    Well, Manipoo's lengendary reliability. More recently, I have lots of love for the Swinger garbage!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwetsch
    Jayem,
    Judging by your posts in this thread, I take it you've had some problems with Tomac / Manitou equipment you've owned in the past. Just curious what problems you've had?
    Oh, thanks for asking.

    I did get a chance to see a manitou HT broken, it was painted red. Looked real cool, rode very stiff, and cracked.

    But that aside, I jammed the top-caps on most manitou forks that I've had (4), the plastic mechanism was crap and would jam together. They weren't lubed for crap, so they'd also feel sticky and like crap. There was no adjustable progression, and when manitou finally did figure out a way to have adjustable progression (SPV) it compramised the ride and made the suspension ride like crap, which is kind of opposite of what you want. Instead of using good damping systems to prevent bottomout, manitou usually uses elastomers and bumpers.

    I worked in a shop for well over a year, and had to deal with many manitou products. One of my favorites was one of the lower cost "splice" forks. It came with a one page manual that was mostly other languages, and I called up manitou to ask them what features the fork had. I told them the "manual" was terrible because it didn't let the fork owner know what fork he had. Manitou has been through many different forks and changes over the last few years, and I've always had trouble getting parts from them. If the issue is over a new fork in the current model year, they'll usually switch it out, but if you need a part, you're usually screwed. The only other company that has given me the "oh, we'll ship it out this week" runaround as bad as Manitou is Yeti, and that was due to their taiwan manufacturing. This particular fork was one of the worst things I've ever seen on a bike, the damping rod simply SCREWED into the lowers, and you could turn it with your hand and unscrew it. There was NO footnut holding it there, and anyone who's worked on forks knows that the fork needs a footnut at the bottom to secure the damping rods. The shermans that I worked on were not much better, just total peices of crap. The difference is when you compare to something like a marzocchi dropoff or DJIII, they are bottom of the line forks too, but the construction is infinitely better. Manitou stuff is usually cheap OEM (if you make your internal parts out of plastic, the costs are kept down).

    Of course, a little bit before this was the Nixon fiasco. The fork that would bottom on the crown with a larger tire. That was a great design right there! And then the nixon platinums that I had to send back to get fixed for the IT failure. Manitou was good about replacing them, but the problem didn't go away, it was another flawed design. The IT would slowly sink as you ride, especially when you were going downhill and braking. That is ultra-dangerous. Mistakes like these two are huge reasons that I won't touch the manitou products. There's the old RS stuff that was just pretty mediocre and the damping systems that were pretty lame, but these mistakes by manitou are less forgivable to me. I don't put much faith in their products after these issues.

    Manitou has been trying to band-aid their SPV system for quite a few years now too. The system simply ruined the absorption qualities of their forks, and they've been trying the "evolve", "snap-valve", and other stuff to try and fix it. It's never going to work well by itself though, because the idea is in opposition to what absorbs impacts, no matter how "light" the platform is.

    Let me tell you about their rear shocks as well. Manitou decided to go with a "different" standard of eyelets, that was smaller than Fox, and everybody else uses. This smaller diameter eyelet needed a smaller bushing, and it didn't distribute the force very well, so they ended up wearing out pretty fast. The bike companies that I talked to that speced these shocks were pretty honest about the problems with them. I also had to change out more than one of these shocks for better equipment that wouldn't "blow up", such as fox DHX coil shocks.

    Manitou forks are usually "one season forks" for the most part, before they start to break down. Poor damping systems, poor quality of parts, and overal poor designs is the reason. RS has stepped up big time in the recent history, but manitou still trails far behind. Go open up a nice fox or marzocchi to see good percision parts that will not crap out after a year.

    There's lots of other things that I've experienced working in the shop and just as a rider with manitou that were negative. I can't explain how nice it is to be able to call up marzocchi and get parts for forks that are 10 years old. They really go out of their way to get you the parts you need, and they keep good stocks. Some things are finally not available anymore, but asking for parts for a manitou SX or FS is just rediculous.
    Last edited by Jayem; 08-02-2006 at 05:23 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Well, Manipoo's lengendary reliability. More recently, I have lots of love for the Swinger garbage!
    I cannot comment on the Swinger issues since I'm a hardtail guy, and I've had my problems, (remember the lower leg issues on the mach 5), but for me anyway Manitou has always stood behind their stuff. I don't think they are any better or worse than any other manufacturer.

    All manufacturers, irregardless of industry have manufacturing issues, I think what matters the most is if they stand behind their product.

    With that being said, the only company i've had trouble with was Competition Cams, thousands of cams produced and I got a bad one, even after the cam was analyzed and they admitted the cam was soft, they would not stand behind it and left me with putting new bearings in an engine with 2000 miles on it.

    They are still a sucessfull company with good products, but for me they didn't stand behind it.

  45. #45

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    Don't forget the y2k carbon steerers that would break, the crowns a couple years later that was too low and caused endos on bottom out, and the broken reverse arches.

    Sorry to say, but Doug Bradbury is like the Kevin Costner of mtb. He gets so many chances to **** up again.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 08-02-2006 at 05:39 PM.

  46. #46
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    Jayem,

    Have you seen many failures on 2004 Skareb's? I'm running an Elite that I put the TPC assembly in (no remote lockout). Fluid Flow is a joke.....

    No problems with it so far

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwetsch
    Jayem,

    Have you seen many failures on 2004 Skareb's? I'm running an Elite that I put the TPC assembly in (no remote lockout). Fluid Flow is a joke.....

    No problems with it so far
    Was the mars the precurser? We definitely had some of those in the shops. The skareb was a little more foolproof. Just keep it lubed well.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Was the mars the precurser? We definitely had some of those in the shops. The skareb was a little more foolproof. Just keep it lubed well.
    I believe you're right about the mars. I was warned away from the first year skareb's because of plastic internals. I've changed the oil twice (once per season, which is short because of winter) and refilled with amsoil which answer said would be ok. I just couldn't see shelling out that much for Motorex.

  49. #49
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    I've still got a Manitou Axel (that's right AXEL) with FFD on a bike. It really was schhweet compared to my RST.

  50. #50
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    They've been on that FSR thing since like '95 or so. The basic design is more or less the same today as it was back then, just more travel, nicer lines, less weight and better construction.
    You mean the FSR style they stole from Amp (think B-4 and B-5) ? Yeah real original there.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  51. #51
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    You mean the FSR style they stole from Amp (think B-4 and B-5) ? Yeah real original there.
    You mean the one that AMP stole from automotive design?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  52. #52
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    Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Low_Rider
    I know there have been a few cases with Tomac frames on MTBR in the past, but really I’m yet to find any solid mention of consistent Tomac frame breakages anywhere on the boards or on the internet??

    The cases mentioned on MTBR are insignificant to many other “boutique” manufacturers who appear to have a much higher failure rate (production volume aside).

    Looking forward to Sideknob’s finished build.

    Cheers, Dave.
    Very true.

    To those naysayers - go and Google "cracked Tomac frame" and find someone who has posted anywhere that THEIRS has broke.

    You will find a few people saying "I heard of one that broke" or "I know a guy who's broke" etc etc.

    All manufacturers have frames that fail.

    I've got a Taos anyway, so all those alleged Revolver shatterings don't worry me too much.

    And as has been pointed out - the new Tomes will be new designs anyway, so all this talk of cracking is irrelevant to Joel Smith's reborn Tomac Bikes.

    Lowrider: I bought my fork today - '06 Reba SL in Diffusion black. So when that arrives I'll build it all up.
    Less isn't MOAR

  53. #53

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    cracking is never good...

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem

    Let me tell you about their rear shocks as well. Manitou decided to go with a "different" standard of eyelets, that was smaller than Fox, and everybody else uses. This smaller diameter eyelet needed a smaller bushing, and it didn't distribute the force very well, so they ended up wearing out pretty fast. The bike companies that I talked to that speced these shocks were pretty honest about the problems with them. I also had to change out more than one of these shocks for better equipment that wouldn't "blow up", such as fox DHX coil shocks.
    I think Manitou shocks are pretty good actually. Never had a problem with my Swinger 3-way air and the damping is excellent. Obviously that's a sample of 1, but all the UK magazines rated it as one of the best and most reliable shocks in '04/'05. I agree about the small bushes though, they do wear out pretty quickly. Not a huge deal, but still a negative point. I also agree about the forks, I'm really glad I didn't get the Nixon. I took a risk on the RS Pike at the end of '04 and it's been faultless.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  55. #55
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    Hey All Mountain,

    I ordered up a set up crossmark exceptions last night... Looking forward to getting em.

  56. #56
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    Are you buying online? You will be pleased with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwetsch
    Hey All Mountain,

    I ordered up a set up crossmark exceptions last night... Looking forward to getting em.

  57. #57
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    And as has been pointed out - the new Tomes will be new designs anyway
    Of course they will be. I would expect nothing less.

    And for 2008 I'd expect to see all-new designs as well.

    A tomac bike that is well designed enough to last more than a season? We haven't seen that yet.
    Last edited by Jayem; 08-03-2006 at 06:08 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Of course they will be. I would expect nothing less.

    And for 2008 I'd expect to see all-new designs as well.
    Is this why everything mountain bike costs so much?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Are you buying online? You will be pleased with them.

    Yup, from Jenson USA... should be here Monday

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Of course they will be. I would expect nothing less.

    And for 2008 I'd expect to see all-new designs as well.

    A tomac bike that is well designed enough to last more than a season? We haven't seen that yet.
    You think they'll last that long?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    You think they'll last that long?
    My Taos is coming up on 2 years old.

    I also have a 10 year old Manitou HT with no cracks in the frame.

  62. #62

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    I meant Joel Smith's bankroll.

  63. #63
    on my 3rd wind...
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    ... and if we just ... Can't wait to see what shock...

    Quote Originally Posted by HotzKiss


    Can't wait to see what will be in store for 2007!!
    check it out!!
    www.tomacbikes.com
    Hope they put Fox DHX air 7.5 (i2i) & 2" stroke in one of their susser. I can surely use it in one one of my rig. I will keep my eye open in Ebay for Tomac OEM shock in 2007.
    sth

  64. #64
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    I've been a long time Bradbury and Tomac fan so it would be nice to see them come back. Let me take my 'bike industry hack playa' hat off here for a second.....

    I think it's unfair to bag out on them because they sold to ABG or because they're 'a brand'. Every company uses an 'image' to sell their bikes - that's how bikes sell. People want to identify with something more than pure functionality, that's human nature. That's what seperates us from automatons or robots, and personally, I like that. A bland 1+1=2 world is not worth living in as far as I'm concerned.

    Sure, there's a lot of marketing speak in the article by Joel Smith, but what do you expect? He's a marketing manager. It's his job to sell sh¡t. I think the biggest problem (aside to the workings with ABG which I'm not privvy to) is that JT was big 10 years ago. Your entire marketing strategy can't be based upon his cult-of-personality because it doesn't have that much pull as time goes on. It has to be part of a complete strategy and I'd put money on the fact that that's what you'll see if the 'New Tomac' is to become sucessful.

    I mean, that and the bikes! The bikes will have to be something really cool as well or else it won't work either. I think if you look at the 'New Ibis' that is kind of a litmus test for a brand relaunch so it will be very interesting viewing to see how everything pans out.

    (puts hat back on)
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  65. #65

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    I have Kenda Nevegals with Tomac's signature on them and six rides. The sidewalls are now disintegrating.

  66. #66
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    I have Tomacs signature on a piece of paper. It's yellowing and cracking.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  67. #67

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    There are at least three threads running right now about Tomac signature Kendas and their lack of durability.

  68. #68
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    The curse of Tomes....

    I have a 10 year old magazine with a picture of Tomes in it - the magazine has since yellowed and got dog ears.....



    Less isn't MOAR

  69. #69
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    Not only did you miss my point entirely but you're also alluding to the fact that anything with Tomac on it is sub-par, otherwise why bring up the fact that an unrelated product made by a completely different company is causing you or others issues?

    Same with comments made by others about Manitou. It has nothing to do with the Tomac bikes and attempting to lump all three products together and dismiss them wholesale is just a little distasteful.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  70. #70
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    Never been a fan of Tomac or his (affiliated) products. Just never quite good enough. It's as if they're satisfied with very SLOWLY following the industry. You never hear of them leading any new technology or design, that is of course unless it's terrible. That six shooter frame reminds me of a Pontiac Aztec. Just like that poor dog in Fly 2, i'd wish someone would put it out of its misery.

  71. #71
    No good in rock gardens..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Not only did you miss my point entirely but you're also alluding to the fact that anything with Tomac on it is sub-par, otherwise why bring up the fact that an unrelated product made by a completely different company is causing you or others issues?

    Same with comments made by others about Manitou. It has nothing to do with the Tomac bikes and attempting to lump all three products together and dismiss them wholesale is just a little distasteful.
    Well said.

    The thread started off with the simple statement that Tomac bikes was being resurrected by Joel Smith.

    Then it turned into a hate on the products of the defunct Tomac bikes.

    Then it extended to Doug Bradbury as well.

    That then extended to forks made by Manitou, and now onto tyres made by Kenda.

    I think the only thing that's been missed has been Magura's old Tomac signature hydraulic canti's......
    Less isn't MOAR

  72. #72
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    Sideknob, Did Tomac have anything to do with Shimano shoes.... I can't stand them
    What else has Tomac done wrong?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Your entire marketing strategy can't be based upon his cult-of-personality because it doesn't have that much pull as time goes on. It has to be part of a complete strategy and I'd put money on the fact that that's what you'll see if the 'New Tomac' is to become sucessful.
    How about a "marketing strategy" based on having f***ing excellent bikes, properly engineered and built to exacting standards. Works for the likes of Ventana and Turner.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Have they got a new designer, or is it still Doug Bradbury?
    Humm... I would hope that they do NOT bring back Doug Bradbury.

    They need a fresh start.
    Inbred. Steel is Real.

  75. #75
    No good in rock gardens..
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    Well, the otherday.....

    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Sideknob, Did Tomac have anything to do with Shimano shoes.... I can't stand them
    What else has Tomac done wrong?
    I as riding my GT hardtail, thinking about my Tomac build, and I nearly fell off thru lack of attention.

    Clearly a Tomac related issue.....
    Less isn't MOAR

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    I as riding my GT hardtail, thinking about my Tomac build, and I nearly fell off thru lack of attention.

    Clearly a Tomac related issue.....
    If the frame cracked, it is a Tomac issue. GT went out of business, too. Quite the coincidence, though they haven't racked up the number of failures Tomac and Bradbury have.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    If the frame cracked, it is a Tomac issue. GT went out of business, too. Quite the coincidence, though they haven't racked up the number of failures Tomac and Bradbury have.
    Clearly you were born after GT's Thermoplastic bikes.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  78. #78

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    Not really. GT went out of business in part due to their special works departments sucking the company dry, and their need to build these super exclusive STS bikes that were heavier than their Al counterparts. Some early ones weren't reliable, and they spent a fortune replacing them. The improved ones lasted, if I remember correct. Regardless, they went under for a reason.

  79. #79
    No good in rock gardens..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Not really. GT went out of business in part due to their special works departments sucking the company dry, and their need to build these super exclusive STS bikes that were heavier than their Al counterparts. Some early ones weren't reliable, and they spent a fortune replacing them. The improved ones lasted, if I remember correct. Regardless, they went under for a reason.

    Ah the LTS design - went the way of the dodo like all FS designs eventually do, cracked frame or not.....

    I often wonder - how many FS bikes will live long enough to gain "vintage / retro" status - bit hard to ride them when you can't get parts as things invariably wear out.

    Somewhere there is a retirement home, filled with squeaking, clanking, wobbling FS bikes....
    Less isn't MOAR

  80. #80

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    Don't forget the LOBO.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    Ah the LTS design - went the way of the dodo like all FS designs eventually do, cracked frame or not.....

    I often wonder - how many FS bikes will live long enough to gain "vintage / retro" status - bit hard to ride them when you can't get parts as things invariably wear out.

    Somewhere there is a retirement home, filled with squeaking, clanking, wobbling FS bikes....
    Quite a few I reckon. Here's a good example

    Retro-Reborn-1small.jpg
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob
    Somewhere there is a retirement home, filled with squeaking, clanking, wobbling FS bikes....

    The Tip.

  83. #83
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    Here's some proper autographed Tomac stuff:




    And more cracked Tomac related product (the one on the left has been repaired, the one on the right at the drive side chain stay... ):
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  84. #84
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    for you Tomac fans, 2 new models are out. check their site!

    www.tomacbikes.com

  85. #85
    Sneaker man
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    Well I for 1 would dearly love a buckshot 00, which to me is a manitou HT with a scandium frame. I would have bought a taos, it came down to that or a yeti arc, the local distibuter didn't seem interested, so yeti it was...
    I also own a '94 manitou, no head tube cracks, and 3 manitou forks, no problems with any of them. and a pile of nike shoes, tomes used nike, no problems there (except for some old jordans, but thats not tomac related).

  86. #86
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    Interesting commentary from all; For the record: Tomac bikes are all new, Bradbury is working to help design the DH bike, Joel Smith is committed to making very good mountain bikes, and all the hogwash about ABG frames breaking "all the time" is only kind of true even though it had nothing to do with Johnny or Bradbury. Suspension design is a very difficult thing to achieve in the bike industry but as Dave Turner proved, you don't need VPP, FSR, DW-link, or MAESTRO to have a great performing bike. Tomac has achieved that with a simple swing-link, single pivot design. Not nothing new but better through quality design of David Earl, Not to mention having the geometry specs tweaked and bikes ridden and approved of by Jonny T himself (and that’s with head to head testing being done with the industries leading bikes, Santa Cruz, Intense, Specialized, Turner, and Giant)...turns out he's a better rider than any of us will ever be...I'm confident in saying that if you really know what a quality bike rides like you will like the new Tomac bikes.....if I’m wrong than my whole life as a mountain biker is "hogwash".

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