Pivot Mach 5 Build Notes- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Pivot Mach 5 Build Notes

    First off, sorry about the crappy pix, I'll try to get better photos later, maybe some action photos. The following loonngg essay contains some build note about my new Pivot Mach 5. Since it's a new product, it has some interesting features and foibles. You may want to grab a beer before reading any further, cuz you'll be here a while.
    First crappy pic:


    This is definitely not a weight-weenie build. This will be my do-it-all bike for quite a while, so I tried to balance weight with durability. The Pike Dual Air seemed like a logical choice (dependable, tunable, simple, no travel adjust to break, and Pushable), and the smokin’ deal I got didn’t hurt things either. (Thanks Eric, you know who you are) I’ve had great luck with Avid Juicys and Thomson stuff. My trusty old Terry saddle and Time pedals were a no-brainer. The King hubs should last longer than I do, and the steel drive shell means no chewed up splines. The UST tires add a little weight, but should resist goatheads a bit better. (Post ride note: Nobby Nics are now my favorite tire) The Duster rims and Supercomp spokes are a wholehearted attempt to limit rotating weight, while the red nipples are a nice little piece of vanity. Upgrades in the future? I’d love a SRAM X.0 shifter/derailleur combo. Maybe sending the suspension to Push next winter? A GPS for all those epic rides I’ll be doing?



    I've only done a couple of tuning rides, so no real riding to report yet. The handling is very nice: nimble and balanced without being twitchy. The pedaling performance is wonderful. Turn the pedals and the bike squirts forward, exactly what I was hoping for. The cockpit is nice and roomy for general riding with the 100mm stem. I think I have a bum shock though. I've test ridden another Mach 5 and the suspension was very supple and I could tell a definite difference between the ProPedal settings. I can't feel any difference in the ProPedal on my shock, not even between the on/off settings. I'll wait to see if the shock wakes up on a real ride before calling Pivot or Fox.

    Here are some of the build of the build notes. Pay particular attention to the chainring comments. You cannot use RaceFace granny rings without modifying them! At least, I couldn't.

    Highs:
    Front Derailleur: Bolt on and go. Stupid easy, but no real adjustments if they’re needed.

    Tire Clearance: Plenty of room for the Nobby Nic 2.25. I’m guessing a 2.4 would fit just fine. Not much mud clearance, but it'd fit.


    Bontrager Duster rims: 425 grams! Can’t vouch for the accuracy of the LBS scale, but that’s damn light for a 28mm rim. Thanks to Alpha Bikes for getting these for me.


    Cable Routing: I love the routing on this frame. It’s clean and it works. Reminds me of my old Racer X. Oh, wait...

    Lows:
    Chainrings: Raceface granny ring tabs WILL contact the bottom bracket shell and can remove metal. (Don't ask, just trust me ) If you’re going to use a Raceface granny ring, you must dremel off a couple of millimeters of material from the tabs.


    Headset: Lower cup pressed in normally, top cup pressed in by hand. I called Pivot, they said it was OK as long as the stack was tightened down properly. (Edit: I've also emailed Cane Creek and gotten the same answer) I’m a little skeptical, but, hey, it’s from the horse’s mouth. Also, damn, I’ve got a lot of spacers under the stem. IMO, the headtube could have been about 1/2” taller. Maybe I should take up yoga.

    Front Derailleur Cable: A ball-ended allen is needed to get access to the cable fixing bolt. That or three hands or maybe a good piece of tape.


    Fun Facts:
    Frame weight: 6.75 lbs (medium, with BB & seat collar)
    Bike weight: 29.6 lbs
    Wheelbase: 43.375”

    The Boring Details:
    Frame: Pivot Mach 5, medium
    Fork: Pike 454 Dual Air
    Headset: Cane Creek ZS2
    Stem/Post: Thomson
    Bar: TruVativ Carbon Team
    Grips: Ruffian Lock-ons
    Brakes: Juicy Sevens 185/160
    Shifters: XTR, m952
    Derailleurs: XT
    Chain: SRAM PC 991
    Cassette: SRAM 980, 11-34 (pending)
    Cranks: Raceface Deus, 24/34/bash
    Pedals: Time ATAC
    Saddle: Terry Ti Fly
    Hubs: King ISO, 20mm front, SS rear
    Spokes: SuperComps
    Rims: Bontrager Dusters
    Tires: Schwalbe Nobby Nic UST

    Anyway, that's the story so far. Hopefully it's the beginning of one long, happy trail.
    Last edited by coolhandluchs; 04-14-2008 at 03:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    If I had a new frame like that where the HS went in by hand I would be pissed. That is ghetto. I would at least try to get some Loctite 680 retaining compound in there. Even if it is a little loose over time it can wallow out larger. Have you tried a different headset?

  3. #3

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    Attaching the FD cable is a little tricky. Usually what I do, simply because I hate ball-ended allens, is back out the barrel adjuser, pull the FD out with my hand, pull the cable taut, snug it, then adjust with barrel adjuster. Gets the job done.

    Been about 2 weeks since I've ridden mine. Weather's been crap.

  4. #4
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    No argument there

    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321
    If I had a new frame like that where the HS went in by hand I would be pissed. That is ghetto. I would at least try to get some Loctite 680 retaining compound in there. Even if it is a little loose over time it can wallow out larger. Have you tried a different headset?
    That's why I called Pivot right after pressing it in. I've done a few builds in my time, and never had a headset cup just snap into place by hand. The lower cup went in normally, with a headset press, but the top cup pressed in, by hand, about halfway, then sorta snapped into place. (I wasn't using grease either) I then tried backing it out by hand, but it didn't want to come out, so it's in there, but I'll be keeping a close eye out for play on that upper cup.

    I've emailed Cane Creek as well, and was told the same thing (as long as the stack is tightened properly...), so hopefully there won't be any issues. (knocking on wood)

    Quote Originally Posted by the Inbred
    Attaching the FD cable is a little tricky. Usually what I do, simply because I hate ball-ended allens, is back out the barrel adjuser, pull the FD out with my hand, pull the cable taut, snug it, then adjust with barrel adjuster. Gets the job done.

    Been about 2 weeks since I've ridden mine. Weather's been crap.
    Thanks for the tip, I got my wife to help me out, (Which is a little like having your wife shake hands with your mistress, I guess. ) so it worked out fine.

    I hear ya on the weather. Usually people are riding most front range trails by the end of March. This year it's looking like the middle of May. Everytime it dries out, we get hit with another random 3-6" of snow in the hills. I doubt the high country will be open until the end of June.
    Last edited by coolhandluchs; 04-14-2008 at 08:46 AM.

  5. #5
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    Bummer on the Race Face Cranks

    I would have assumed Pivot fitted various brands of cranks and made technical notes or advisories for issues such as yours with the Race Face. It would seem natural to fit the shimano cranks yet some folks dont care for it. Was the Dremel approach too hard to do?

  6. #6
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    New standards

    That's the problem with new standards...there are always combinations that haven't been tested. I'm marking it down as growing pains. Every Pivot I've seen has Shimano cranks on it, the complete bikes use Shimano cranks, and the new BB system is Shimano, so I guess technically, if I had to point a finger, it would have to be at Raceface. (I'm not actually pointing fingers at anyone BTW. Look on the bright side, I could be the first person in history to put Raceface cranks on a Pivot! ) I have no idea if TruVativ or FSA rings would have the same issue.

    Dremeling the tabs takes a couple of minutes, and you don't have to remove much. I'm sure the tabs' inner diameter is maybe only a millimeter off. It was very close to clearing the BB shell, but I removed a bit more just to make sure there couldn't be any contact.

    I just wanted to let people who were not using Shimano chainrings know to watch out for possible problems. This is a new bike with a lot of interesting features, so there are bound to be a few issues to iron out.

  7. #7
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    It looks really good- I'm not surprised that it pedals so well. The Mojo pedals extremely well too but I bet the BB interface of the Pivot is a bit stiffer. I'm also not surprised it reminds you a bit of your old Racer-X.

    Now we will really have fun at Kenosha this year. You better start riding and that goes for me too. Congrats on that rocket!

  8. #8
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    Your shock's "compression tune"?

    What is the compression tune on your shock?

    If it is "high", that may be the reason you can't tell the difference between propedal settings. You may also find that these shocks are grossly overdamped.

    I had a "high" tuned shock on my Mojo, and it performed very poorly.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    What is the compression tune on your shock?

    If it is "high", that may be the reason you can't tell the difference between propedal settings. You may also find that these shocks are grossly overdamped.

    I had a "high" tuned shock on my Mojo, and it performed very poorly.
    The smallest bar on both the rebound and compression graphs is highlighted, so I think I have the lightest tune. I tried compressing the bike 10-12 times last night, flipping the lever to both the on and off settings, and thought I could feel a very slight difference between the two. I'm planning on getting out for the maiden voyage this weekend, so we'll see if the shock just needs to break in a little bit. If it doesn't feel better, I'll call Fox. Worst case scenario, the shock goes up north to Push for a custom tune.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolhandluchs
    The smallest bar on both the rebound and compression graphs is highlighted, so I think I have the lightest tune. I tried compressing the bike 10-12 times last night, flipping the lever to both the on and off settings, and thought I could feel a very slight difference between the two. I'm planning on getting out for the maiden voyage this weekend, so we'll see if the shock just needs to break in a little bit. If it doesn't feel better, I'll call Fox. Worst case scenario, the shock goes up north to Push for a custom tune.
    Minimal difference in propedal feel in all 1,2,3 lever on settings is normal for a small-bar (softest) RP23.

    If your Mach-5 is production it should have a custom for Pivot OEM RP23 with even softer propedal than any other RP23.

  11. #11
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    Congrats on the new Pivot

  12. #12
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    really nice ride.... congrats, coolhandluchs!

  13. #13
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    Demo @ Sea Otter

    The Pivot reps at Sea Otter set me up with a quick demo. I had heard of comments on harsher feel on the Mach 5 so I needed to check it out myself. Folks....not harsh at all!! The Mach 5 I tested had the XT kit and felt great. Friendly folks and a good complement to the DW Link line of frames.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by intensworks
    ....not harsh at all!! The Mach 5 I tested had the XT kit and felt great.
    After a humbling, shorter-than-desired ride, (Belcher Hill flat out owns my sorry butt now ) I have to agree. I have no complaints about suspension performance, either climbing or descending. It feels compliant and controlled. I have some more fiddling to do with bar height and air pressures, but I'm happy with the performance. (Of course, I'm still in the honeymoon stage.)

    The one strange thing I noticed on my bike is that the front end is a bit light on steep climbs, but on descents, it's little hard to get the front wheel off the ground. I think it's a combination of bar height and fork settings, but I'd be happy to entertain any suggestions as to how to fix things. I still have some work to do with the fork; the Pike Dual-air is very adjustable, which is both a good and bad thing for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain, crisillo
    ...Congrats...
    Thanks guys I needed to find something that was going to keep me happy for a while, and so far, I think I made a good choice.
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    Last edited by coolhandluchs; 04-21-2008 at 06:42 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by intensworks
    The Pivot reps at Sea Otter set me up with a quick demo. I had heard of comments on harsher feel on the Mach 5 so I needed to check it out myself. Folks....not harsh at all!! The Mach 5 I tested had the XT kit and felt great. Friendly folks and a good complement to the DW Link line of frames.
    I did the same thing, but I could only screw around the parking lot for a quick feel, so it's definitely not a final indication of the bike's off-road behavior. My initial impression is that the rear seems a bit harsh on the small bumps. A longer test would be more telling but the initial impression was not to my liking. Mind you, it's only a few minutes on a parking lot, but it felt less plush than other bikes I test rode before (Mav Durance, Turner Spot or my own Motolite).
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  16. #16
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    I'm lovin it

    First ride was yesterday. I wanted to test the full travel on the rear shock and had no sense of harshness. The rep at SO mentioned that Interbike demos had been valved by Fox in a way it may have felt harsh but since then their production frames have full open valving in the rear. I am tempted on a Pike now to get a plusher feel vs my Talas.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4134159&page=2


  17. #17
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    Is this a Zero Stack or Integrated headset?

    Pivot even refers to the headset as an integrated, but I believe that the steerer tube has the races built into it and the headset/bearings just slip in using the integrated set up. The Zero Stack systems use press in cups. Are you sing an IS or ZS series Cane Creek headset?

    Just curious as I am on the pre-order list for a Mach 429.

    Quote Originally Posted by coolhandluchs
    That's why I called Pivot right after pressing it in. I've done a few builds in my time, and never had a headset cup just snap into place by hand. The lower cup went in normally, with a headset press, but the top cup pressed in, by hand, about halfway, then sorta snapped into place. (I wasn't using grease either) I then tried backing it out by hand, but it didn't want to come out, so it's in there, but I'll be keeping a close eye out for play on that upper cup.

    I've emailed Cane Creek as well, and was told the same thing (as long as the stack is tightened properly...), so hopefully there won't be any issues. (knocking on wood)



    Thanks for the tip, I got my wife to help me out, (Which is a little like having your wife shake hands with your mistress, I guess. ) so it worked out fine.

    I hear ya on the weather. Usually people are riding most front range trails by the end of March. This year it's looking like the middle of May. Everytime it dries out, we get hit with another random 3-6" of snow in the hills. I doubt the high country will be open until the end of June.

  18. #18
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    It is a Internal Headset (or as Cane Creek calls it Semi-Integrated). Very confusing but it is a 44.00 mm ZeroStack with press fit cups. I think Chris C. in the 429 video on MTBR says it is a 50.00 mm and Speedgoat said it was a Hiddenset. Trust me it is 44.00 mm internal press fit headset aka ZeroStack.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the reply.

    That's exactly what was throwing me off. I have seen it called three different names now and everyone is different style. The only experience I have with an integrated headset is on my carbon road frame.

  20. #20
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    Integrated has the cups machined right in the headtube and have drop in bearings in either the 36/45 degree like Cane Creek or 45/45 like Campy std.

    When building a Pivot I was told it was Campy integrated (already had one from a Maverick) but when the frame came in No Dice. So I sent off an email and was told it was Hiddenset so ordered one up, not even close. Next stop ZeroStack and Bingo internal press fit 44.0 mm.

  21. #21
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    Yup, ZeroStack

    I'm using a Cane Creek ZS-2, a zerostack headset. FSA and Ritchey also have zerostacks available. There was a bit of confusion when the bikes were coming out, and I think that may have carried over to some of the dealers. Luckily, smarter people than I figured it out before I got my bike, so I didn't have to play musical chairs.

    Hey Larsey, did you get your new frame built up yet? What color did you get? Let's see some pix man! I'm hoping to get a little photo-essay at some point in the near future, but we're going to be moving for the next couple weekends...very little riding time.

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