Chumba design stuff in bicycleretailer.com- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Chumba design stuff in bicycleretailer.com

    starts off with trek stuff. but then moves to chumba. seams like chumba is doing the development the right way, 3D CAD.



    http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicyc..._id=1002841082


    LeMond Triumphs Over Design With New Technology

    By Jason Norman

    JULY 01, 2006 -- WATERLOO, WI—Trek designers who work on LeMond Cycles are singing the praises of the software that made the latest LeMond carbon fiber beauty a reality.

    “It’s the new features of SolidWorks that actually made the bike happen,” said Chad Lockart, senior industrial designer for Trek, of the 2007 LeMond Triomphe. Trek’s designers used a “min/max” design philosophy, producing “minimum weight but maximum output,” for the all-carbon frame, which was unveiled at the Tour de Georgia in April. Retailers will get a look at it next month at Trek’s 2007 product launch.

    The Triomphe features oval bidirectional tube shapes. The toptube and downtube front ends are tall and thin, thus increasing front-end strength. The tubes’ rear ends are wide and flat, thus increasing the lateral rigidity of the front triangle. Suggested retail for the Triomphe line will be between $1,799 and $3,939.

    SolidWorks’ new features also allowed Trek designers to move quicker than ever before. “It gave us the ability to leverage our data between multiple job functions like engineering, design and manufacturing,” Lockart said. “The LeMond team went from initial design ideas to tooling faster than any other team at Trek or LeMond.”

    Lockart said the CAD (computer aided design) for 10 sizes, including engineering documentation, took about three months. “For a project of that complexity that’s really fast. It wouldn’t have happened that fast without the new revision of SolidWorks,” he added.

    Trek switched to SolidWorks in 2001, according to Steve Baumann, industrial design manager at Trek. It’s the power to value ratio that sold Trek on SolidWorks. “It can do 95 to 98 percent of what the $25,000 software does at 20 percent the cost,” he said.

    Because of SolidWorks’ excellent value, Baumann said not only do all Trek designers and engineers have the software, but Trek employees and associates, including vendors, around the globe use it. “It’s a great communications tool,” Baumann said. “It’s the same language everywhere.”

    Solid as a Rock. Many other manufacturers besides Trek are using SolidWorks as their modeling software for frame design, including Chumba Racing in Southern California. According to Chumba founder Ted Tanouye, SolidWorks has been an invaluable tool in making its mountain bike frames.

    “It’s very easy to learn,” said Tanouye, who began Chumba in 1993. “It saves us a tremendous amount of time.”

    Because the program offers a three-dimensional look at the bike, it allows Tanouye to get a better sense of what the finished product will look like. “I’ll have all these crazy ideas at night,” Tanouye said. These “crazy ideas” are then fed into SolidWorks. “I can’t visualize in my head what SolidWorks does. I can’t visualize in my head if things don’t look correct proportionally. It’s great to conceptualize it as opposed to just having something in your head,” he added.

    Basic SolidWorks packages cost roughly $5,000, said Tanouye, with the more advanced version costing roughly $10,000. Chumba uses the latter. Tanouye said he still uses AutoCAD for design as well.

    SolidWorks has several advantages over older software such as CAD, said Tanouye. SolidWorks’ collision detection feature can tell frame designers if the crank arm is going to clear the swing arm or if the tire size is compatible with the frame. “We’re fighting a lot of constraints on a bike frame, so this really helps,” Tanouye said.

    Another great feature called FEA (Finite Element Analysis), which is an add-on to SolidWorks, analyzes frame stress. “This feature is able to simulate arbitrary loads on the bicycle,” he said.

    Chumba also produces mountain bikes at its Anaheim facility using CNC and CAM machines. The CAM unit turns SolidWorks’ design “into readable code for the CNC machine” to make the frame.

    David Turner, founder of Turner Bikes, uses Graphite 2D software made by Ashlar-Vellum. This software allows Turner to move through the design process quicker; he then will outsource for the FEA phase. Turner agreed with Tanouye that most manufacturers are using SolidWorks, and that if he were to learn a more all-encompassing program it would be SolidWorks.

    Norco chief engineer Charles Stewart has been using SolidWorks for the past 18 months. Before that he was using Pro/Engineer—also popular among manufacturers. Not only is SolidWorks much cheaper, but it’s also easier to use because it runs on Microsoft Windows. All this, he said, “reduces your time to market.”

    Scott Turner, head of public relations for Santa Cruz, said Santa Cruz uses Pro/Engineer because it has fewer limitations but admitted that SolidWorks is “amazingly good for what it is.”

    Tanouye only expects modeling software to become more advanced. “Every year SolidWorks comes out with a new version,” Tanouye said. “And it just keeps getting better.”
    Last edited by demo_slug; 08-19-2006 at 03:29 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    seams like chumba is doing the development the right way, 3D CAD.

    makes me giggle that turner is still doing 2d development.
    "Seams" like you've got a grudge against Turner. Kinda a recurring theme for you, huh? How many bikes have you designed and built again?

    Turner outsources manufacturing to a company that does FEA for him. Seems like intelligent allocation of resources to me. At least, lots of people are very happy with the bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74
    "Seams" like you've got a grudge against Turner. Kinda a recurring theme for you, huh? How many bikes have you designed and built again?

    Turner outsources manufacturing to a company that does FEA for him. Seems like intelligent allocation of resources to me. At least, lots of people are very happy with the bikes.
    happy now?

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    Don't be so hard on demo slug. He has a legitimate point. It is noteworthy that Chumba is doing all of their designing and FEA analysis in house, versus outsourcing some of it. This gives the manufacturer/designer complete control of the process versus giving some of it up, not to mention having it all done in-house is more efficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spicymaguros
    Don't be so hard on demo slug. He has a legitimate point. It is noteworthy that Chumba is doing all of their designing and FEA analysis in house, versus outsourcing some of it. This gives the manufacturer/designer complete control of the process versus giving some of it up, not to mention having it all done in-house is more efficient.
    yes good on chumba for geeking on engineering. I hope the chumba-ites liked that I cared to share.

    but, I made no FEA comment. or any statement about outsourcing. I'm just misunderstood

    at the company I work at, the design engineer( I am one of many, but I'm an EE) will create the parts and Assemblies in Pro E. this is for fit check. 3D modeling really simplifies this step. and cuts out a lot of prototyping. 2D development is a PTA.

    from there, mainly some quick hand calculation is all that is done and stack up. if its a critical part, then the model would be given to our analysis group or outsourced to a consultant.

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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    yes good on chumba for geeking on engineering. I hope the chumba-ites liked that I cared to share.

    but, I made no FEA comment. or any statement about outsourcing. I'm just misunderstood

    at the company I work at, the design engineer( I am one of many, but I'm an EE) will create the parts and Assemblies in Pro E. this is for fit check. 3D modeling really simplifies this step. and cuts out a lot of prototyping. 2D development is a PTA.

    from there, mainly some quick hand calculation is all that is done and stack up. if its a critical part, then the model would be given to our analysis group or outsourced to a consultant.
    Right -- I wasn't suggesting outsourcing is bad in anyway, just recognizing that there are certain advantages/disadvantages of both approaches.

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