CHUMBA - Cane Creek Double Barrel Project- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    CHUMBA - Cane Creek Double Barrel Project

    I spoke with Malcolm from Cane Creek on Friday - who handles all of the CCDB projects. We have sent CCDB a VF2 frame for analysis on axle path and leverage ratio to optimize the performance of the CCDB for the VF2. From my conversations with CC - we are hoping this shock will provide the ultimate in eliminating any pedal-induced bob while retaining superior bump absorption - and a wide range of tuneability. CHUMBA and Cane Creek will jointly analyze shock settings and performance, and then offer recommended settings based on data that will likely be available for viewing. We will be sending out a few of these shocks to our distributors shortly - and look forward to feedback and data from all. If you already own this shock on any of our frames, feel free to chime in to give us more data.

    This shock will likely be offered OEM on part of a special edition build for the VF2. Stay tuned as we post more details and a press release sometime next week.
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    This will be interesting to follow.
    One question?
    Why not the XCL instead of the VF2? It seems like the build of the XCL is more inline with what the CCDB will offer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    This will be interesting to follow.
    One question?
    Why not the XCL instead of the VF2? It seems like the build of the XCL is more inline with what the CCDB will offer.
    The XCL will also be offered and analyzed with the CCDB same as the VF2. The reason why we chose to focus on the VF2 for this project is because we are finding that the VF2 can handle a lot more punishment putting it in line with spirit and feel of an aggressive trailbike like the XCL - I would say we are probably erring more on the side of XCL aggressiveness with the VF2 - rather than 24 hour race type of XC riding.

    Although - you are absolutely correct in that the CCDB is an awesome addition the XCL as well.
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    Just let me know when you want to test the CCDB on an XCL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCETRY
    Just let me know when you want to test the CCDB on an XCL.
    haha, I've already saved this burden for myself.
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  6. #6
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    now your talking. Stick a ccdb on all Chumbas and they'll be an instant hit(assuming you can keep the price sensible)

    I'm tempted to try one on the F5

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    haha, I've already saved this burden for myself.
    Okay when you're done send one my way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    now your talking. Stick a ccdb on all Chumbas and they'll be an instant hit(assuming you can keep the price sensible)

    I'm tempted to try one on the F5
    Exactly - this is really exciting stuff because we will be working with Cane Creek directly on each of our models to provide factory settings to optimize the performance on each bicycle for a variety of weights.

    Also - the icing on the cake is that the CCDB had a price reduction making it this combination highly affordable considering the pricing of our frames!
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  9. #9
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    excellent stuff. I've got a VF2 hanging in the shop here. I'm tempted now to build it up as a demo and stick my CCDB from the nicolai on it. Does the VF2 work ok with a 36 at full travel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    excellent stuff. I've got a VF2 hanging in the shop here. I'm tempted now to build it up as a demo and stick my CCDB from the nicolai on it. Does the VF2 work ok with a 36 at full travel?
    yes - very much so. I would save the full travel for the descents, as climbing and flat singletrack would do best at 140 - although 160 is still manageable.

    I am ordering a Lyrik coil to run with my CCDB.

    A.
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  11. #11
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    chumbaevo - very very interesting, as Dipper is my Dealer and has been pushing Chumba for a while.
    I also run a CCDB on my Nicolai, but will be very interested in demo'ing a VF2 with an 'optimized' CCDB once Dipper get's his shock set up as a demo....
    Dipper , can you confirm you'll be receiving the 'optimized' CCDB for demo ?

    thanks lads.

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    Will the VF2 rear triangle stay Carbon?

    For an Agresive trail VF2 equipted with CCDB?
    Can it take the abuse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmargoli
    For an Agresive trail VF2 equipted with CCDB?
    Can it take the abuse?
    All of our research and tests seem to indicate that this carbon fiber will hold up. We source our carbon fiber from the same manufacturer for several high-end brands that have literally thousands of these frames out on the trails right now. I do hear there is a higher than normal incidence rate compared to what CHUMBA is normally used to - as our incidence rate is less than 00.30 percent. However, we have taken great measures to reinforce the material - and set up the design to have maximum impact resistance - and so far, even in our real world testing of over 12 months; and light freeriding, we have been very impressed with what this material can do. So I would not hesitate to purchase the bike with a CCDB if you are thinking about all-mountain - as long as your not planning a trip to the freeride park.
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    The CCDB Arrived Today

    Received the shock today! Looks great! So I will begin by mounting this shock on my VF2 and playing with the adjustments all week. I will then begin taking notes, and marking off my rebound and compression settings and the type of terrain that I am riding. Simultaneously, Josh (head of R&D at CC) will be riding a VF2 and mapping out the suspension with his linkage software and testing equipment at CC. Once he has come to a good determination on factory settings - then we will share notes on what I found, along with results from Ted's 12 month study; and what CC's research results are. Will keep you all posted, this is going to be exciting!
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    I'm extremely interested in getting a CCDB for my XCL! Alan, please keep us posted!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucko58
    I'm extremely interested in getting a CCDB for my XCL! Alan, please keep us posted!
    You got it Chuck!
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  17. #17
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    Update! Just got our first frame analysis data back from Cane Creek - very positive and interesting stuff! They mapped out all of the pivot locations, leverage ratios, squat curves - I will be posting more stuff soon.
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  18. #18
    steep fast and loose :)
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    interest on this side of the pond has increased too....
    si @ progressive is getting wet knickers

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    So have they started work on the CCDB for the XCL yet?

  20. #20
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    Just finished a ride using some new settings - all I have to say is "Wow!" This shock is truly incredible! I don't think I can ever go back to an air shock - I ran LSC about half way dialed in - and HSC fully open - and HSR about half way in - and LSR almost open - and 2 turns of preload -

    Shock made the bike pedal even better than before - as all pedaling power just went straight to the ground, traction maintained even and balanced, with the shock never ramping up too quickly, but absorbing all bumps at a steady and even pace - the rebound settings were really nice too - never feeling chattery -

    I might try a little less preload - but everything people say about this shock is true - it truly is in a league by itself! It does make the bike a little heavier - so my VF2 ended up weighing about 29lbs. running coil front and rear - but I am sure I could be keeping up with dedicated 6 inch bikes on this set up. This is a very stable and confidence-inspiring ride.
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    Any updates Alan?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucko58
    Any updates Alan?
    Hey Chuck:

    I can't give up too many details, but we're almost finished with our first phase of testing. All I can say is I am VERY impressed - and we will have a lot of really nice performance options for our riders soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    everything people say about this shock is true - it truly is in a league by itself! .
    that's for sure, most overrated, underperforming, one size fits all generic shock available. You really should try a real coil shock sometime. Although this one is a good match for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    that's for sure, most overrated, underperforming, one size fits all generic shock available. You really should try a real coil shock sometime. Although this one is a good match for you.
    Are you being silly now?

    So how come Dirt magazine and other well respected MTB people like it soo much? Do you know who makes the CCDB, Ohlins, who happen to know a thing or two about suspension design!

    But of course don't let that get in the way of you and your silly views.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by airdrawn
    Are you being silly now?

    So how come Dirt magazine and other well respected MTB people like it soo much? Do you know who makes the CCDB, Ohlins, who happen to know a thing or two about suspension design!

    But of course don't let that get in the way of you and your silly views.....
    it's not just his view. there are a lot of people who aren't that thrilled with the ccdb. magazine reviews only mean so much. setting up a ccdb is not easy and most riders don't have the skills or knowledge to get the most out of it. getting someone to set up a shock for you based on your suspension design, weight and riding style is very valuable and worth paying for. there is reason push expanded and companies ike avalanch and elka are in business. getting a shock tned for you specifically is the smart way to go. the ccdb has its limitations regarding oil flow on hard hits and people are aware of it. yes it's made by ohlins, but fox is a huge suspension company too and they've made a few dogs. check out the dhx air

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdrawn
    Are you being silly now?

    So how come Dirt magazine and other well respected MTB people like it soo much? Do you know who makes the CCDB, Ohlins, who happen to know a thing or two about suspension design!

    But of course don't let that get in the way of you and your silly views.....
    Silly airdawn, do you own one? I did. I know all about it. I know well respected mtb suspension experts who know all about it as well. Do you know what we know?

    Everything that qbert2000 says is true. the ccdb is a one size fits all jack of all trades, master of none shock. It doesn't come close to a shock built custom, for you and your bike, for as much, or a little less than the ccdb.
    ****

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdrawn
    Are you being silly now?

    So how come Dirt magazine and other well respected MTB people like it soo much? ....
    Marketing, plain and simple.

    There have been very high end shocks available for a long time, but CC is a much bigger company with marketing ability.

    There are some issues with the CCDB that can limit the performance. While you can change high/low damping andt threshold, you can't alter the damping curve in such a way that a shimstack-type damper can. With the CCDB you are adjusting the spring preload on poppet valves. With other designs you can have a different damping curve in addition to putting more or less preload on spring-loaded orofices.

    The CCDB has a heavy-stack on the main piston that is supposedly only supposed to work during extreme shaft-velocity situations not usually encountered by most riders. That said, the dynamics would be different given different weight riders and leverage rates on bikes, so a one-size-fits-all approach isn't going to be the best tuned.

    The whole "low friction/stiction" thing (because it's not a high-charge resevior shock) could make for smoother travel, but having an IFP height and the ability to adjust that and the air pressure adds another tuning element to the bike, to combat say a falling rate or even a bike that was intended originally for an air shock (so towards the end of travel its not very progressive, whereas the air-shock ramp-up is). There's another way to do this as well. Avalanche also makes a product that has a bladder instead of an IFP (I have this one, in addition to their IFP-style shock), so that circumvents the claim that only the CCDB can provide that ultra-smooth travel, even though it's pretty far-fetched to start with given the leverage that shocks operate under.

    There's also the bottom-out bumper deal. Push uses different durometers. Avalanche does this in addition to a few different shapes combined with cup at the end of the shaft to cause more progression to be added to the bumper.

    Avalanche also uses hydralic-bottom-out cones in some of their technology, most notably their forks, but this technology is an example that there is possibly better stuff out there.

    CCDB initially had problems on low-leverage bikes where the CCDB settings did not allow for enough oil flow. This has been addressed, but it further goes to point out that a "one-size-fits-all" approach may not work for everyone.

    The Avalanche high/low compression circut has been used for quite a while and Push is now using it as well. This allows for real high/low damping adjustment in addition to threshold at which it changes from high to low. This technology is straight from motorcross, but it's far more advanced and effective than anything else that had been used previously. Lots of companies liked to claim they had high or low speed adjustments and so on, but few really delivered on this. There's also the Elka product as well. Fox did just come out with the RC4, which seems to use valving similer to what Avalanche has been using all along.

    Point being, there are arguably even better products than the CCDB, and they've been available for a while. CC has a lot of marketing power though, much more than these small companies like Push and Avalanche. With companies like Push and Avalanche you get a custom-tuned product, valved for your bike and weight, some things you could argue that CCDB can't match, and they all do it at a pretty competative price. It's not that the CCDB sucks or that it isn't very tunable. In many cases it is going to be an upgrade.

    Final example and words: Push is looking at modifying the CCDB, adding their own main piston. I would suspect the reason for this would be to have the main piston do some of the damping duties, while retaining some of the adjustability of the poppet valves. This would allow for different damping curves if required and also improve the oil flow if that is a problem. As an OEM shock the CCDB is probably a good choice, although for the upcharge that it incurrs I'd rather take that money and get a custom-tuned Avalanche or Push MX.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdrawn
    Are you being silly now?

    So how come Dirt magazine and other well respected MTB people like it soo much? Do you know who makes the CCDB, Ohlins, who happen to know a thing or two about suspension design!

    But of course don't let that get in the way of you and your silly views.....

    one more example. knolly, who make great bikes, sell the ccdb as an option too. i know a few people who love it on their dts but a few who hated it on their endorphins. i don't know why that is, but that's what i've heard. noel still touts the ccdb as an upgrade and it is. over the rp23 or dhxair. check out momentus' thoughts on his elka equipped dt. he thinks it's great and he had it built specifically for his dt at his weight and riding style. remember, most of the factory racers are riding custom tuned shocks when they race. you need that at the highest levels to compete. even us regualr shmoes benefit from custom tuning, maybe even more than the pros do.

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    so what I'm getting at is, chumbaevo, who has been riding rp23's with various tunes on them [perhaps unbeknown to him] is of course going to be blown away by the low speed circuits on the coil sprung ccdb. Let's see what happens when he gets it up to high speeds. And if he really wants to do it right, he should bolt and avy or an elka, etc on to his bike, and compare real coil shocks.

    fwiw, I did like the low speed circuits on my ccdb. that was all I liked about the shock.
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  30. #30
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    I happen to own a CCDB which I've been very impressed by, for me it was a choice between pushed RC and the CCDB which I got at trade price so the difference back then wasn't SO huge. I have used PUSH'd RCs on older bikes and was very impressed, but I haven't been so impressed with avvies (though I tried very hard to like it!). It felt very mushy and wallowy.

    The thing I really like about the CCDB is that you can change the way your bike handles - ie stiff and floaty too oversensitive or any preference in between. Whilst I concede that suspension tuners (PUSH, TF Tuned, Stendec et al) may know more about actual suspension than I do, they can only supply one basic set up derived from limited info supplied by the end user. For most this is probably the best compromise but are you (Renegade!) implying that even if the CCDB is set up as optimally as it could be for a given rider/bike combo it is still quite inferior to DHX/AVY/ROCO etc? If so, why? Like I say I'm no expert so don't take this the wrong way, I'm genuinely interested...

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    funkydrummer, it will save everybody a lot of typing if you simply read this thread:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...+to+mod+a+ccdb
    ****

  32. #32
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    Nevermind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    funkydrummer, it will save everybody a lot of typing if you simply read this thread:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...+to+mod+a+ccdb
    That is a very interesting thread. Although I can't weigh in quite yet - I do imagine that comments on frame specific tuning could have a lot to do with some of the experiences.
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    ChumbaEvo - this is pretty much the evaluation that I came too (admittedly from drunkenly reading through the above thread). The good news (for me at least) is that the F5 seems to get on with a stock (circa 2007) CCDB very nicely! I can't/won't comment on anything else

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    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer
    ChumbaEvo - this is pretty much the evaluation that I came too (admittedly from drunkenly reading through the above thread). The good news (for me at least) is that the F5 seems to get on with a stock (circa 2007) CCDB very nicely! I can't/won't comment on anything else
    Right on! I agree, IMHO the tuneability really helps a lot.
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    I have a first round of setting recommendations for CCDB owners with CHUMBA frames (XCL and VF2) - not EVO or F5 yet - please shoot me an e-mail so I can try to dial the shock in with you.
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    bumpity bump...

    Any news about CCDB for XCL Alan? Xmas buying-presents-for-myself season is coming fast.
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    Yes bumpitty bump; has Malcolm worked out the custom valving yet for your applications Allen? By the way, I never did get a copy of the non-disclosure agreement you have with CC, you know, the one you must need for turning the adjusters one way or another?
    ****

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    Quote Originally Posted by chucko58
    bumpity bump...

    Any news about CCDB for XCL Alan? Xmas buying-presents-for-myself season is coming fast.
    Hey Chuck!

    We have got our first round of recommended settings in. Setting this shock up can be complicated with the myriad of adjustment range it has. We've come to some standard preload and spring settings - along with a good base line to set the adjustments.

    So yes, we are ready to move forward. I've already shipped out a few and working with some customers - so shoot me an e-mail or call Jason and we can get you all set up -

    A.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Hey Chuck!

    We have got our first round of recommended settings in. Setting this shock up can be complicated with the myriad of adjustment range it has. We've come to some standard preload and spring settings - along with a good base line to set the adjustments.

    So yes, we are ready to move forward. I've already shipped out a few and working with some customers - so shoot me an e-mail or call Jason and we can get you all set up -

    A.
    so are these recommended settings only good on the custom tuned ccdb that you are getting for chumba vs a stock ccdb?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Hey Chuck!

    We have got our first round of recommended settings in. Setting this shock up can be complicated with the myriad of adjustment range it has. We've come to some standard preload and spring settings - along with a good base line to set the adjustments. A.
    Alan, are you for real? Standard preload settings? Don't you think spring rate, and preload are going to be different for every rider? Are you saying you've established baseline settings for all weight of riders, just based on your one shock and bike?
    And the other adjustments Alan. Are you saying Joe Blow riding buff california singletrack is going to use the same settings as Jim Bean in Arizona who rides super-chunk? And you've determined all their settings, regardless of terrain and rider style, just based on your experiments with your one bike and shock? Tell me you're serious?
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    What is the name of the insect that has managed to crawl and attach itself to Renegade's large intestine? It must be a doozy. No sir, don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Alan, are you for real? Standard preload settings? Don't you think spring rate, and preload are going to be different for every rider? Are you saying you've established baseline settings for all weight of riders, just based on your one shock and bike?
    And the other adjustments Alan. Are you saying Joe Blow riding buff california singletrack is going to use the same settings as Jim Bean in Arizona who rides super-chunk? And you've determined all their settings, regardless of terrain and rider style, just based on your experiments with your one bike and shock? Tell me you're serious?
    Without this turning into a flamefest I'll try to answer some questions. Of course spring rate and preload are different for every rider - what I meant by standard is that we've made a chart in 10 lb. increments for riders that will provide recommended spring rates and preload settings.

    As far as your point on different terrains - you are correct that different terrains will have different optimal settings. That's one of the factors used to tune the shock before it's shipped out.

    Also - you've said you rode a CCDB before, and apparently you were dissatisfied with HSC - what frame was it on?
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Without this turning into a flamefest I'll try to answer some questions. Of course spring rate and preload are different for every rider - what I meant by standard is that we've made a chart in 10 lb. increments for riders that will provide recommended spring rates and preload settings.

    As far as your point on different terrains - you are correct that different terrains will have different optimal settings. That's one of the factors used to tune the shock before it's shipped out.

    Also - you've said you rode a CCDB before, and apparently you were dissatisfied with HSC - what frame was it on?
    I owned a ccdb that was on a turner RFX. I was dissatisfied with both the hsc and hsr. The shock spiked, and hydrolocked.
    So, are you saying that you try to predict settings for customers, based on their terrain and riding style, based on observations made on your terrain and riding style? Or are you saying cane creek does that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I owned a ccdb that was on a turner RFX. I was dissatisfied with both the hsc and hsr. The shock spiked, and hydrolocked.
    So, are you saying that you try to predict settings for customers, based on their terrain and riding style, based on observations made on your terrain and riding style? Or are you saying cane creek does that?
    Yes - we do try to predict settings based on terrain and riding style. Cane Creek helps out here as well - by helping us fine tune settings.

    The RFX - was it the 4-bar version (TNT)? What were your settings on the shock? Spring rate, preload - HSC setting (from open) - and how much do you weigh - and under what type of riding conditions did you feel the spike and the hydrolock? Also - what other coil shocks have you run on the RFX and felt satisfied with - no spiking - ?

    Don't mean to bombard you with questions - just trying to understand what is going on.

    A.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Yes - we do try to predict settings based on terrain and riding style. Cane Creek helps out here as well - by helping us fine tune settings.

    The RFX - was it the 4-bar version (TNT)? What were your settings on the shock? Spring rate, preload - HSC setting (from open) - and how much do you weigh - and under what type of riding conditions did you feel the spike and the hydrolock? Also - what other coil shocks have you run on the RFX and felt satisfied with - no spiking - ?

    Don't mean to bombard you with questions - just trying to understand what is going on.

    A.
    so no custom tune then? the only custom part is you will ship the frame out the door with the ccdb preset to the riders weight and riding style, saving them 5 minutes from doing it themselves from a chart? wow, that's truly custom valving

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    so no custom tune then? the only custom part is you will ship the frame out the door with the ccdb preset to the riders weight and riding style, saving them 5 minutes from doing it themselves from a chart? wow, that's truly custom valving
    Here's a good article describing some of the intricacies involved in tuning this incredible shock:

    http://www.declinemagazine.com/Displ...?article_ID=48
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  48. #48
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    I don't remember the settings. I tried everything though, in a methodical, scientific fashion.
    Alan, scroll up to post #32, and click on the link I included in that post, it should have all that information, and much more, from myself, and others who had issues with the shock.
    No other coil shock that I rode on that frame exhibited the spiking and hydrolocking that the ccdb did; that includes a dhx stock and Pushed, a Roco stock and Pushed, a vanilla rc stock and Pushed, and the avalanche chubbie that is on it today.
    Again, it is all in that thread.
    I worked with Malcolm trying to overcome these issues. He specifically told me that they would not custom valve the shock for me, and that they do not shim the piston so that it actually functions like a shimmed piston. Their piston is essentially a solid piston.
    Last edited by Renegade; 09-14-2009 at 12:44 PM.
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  49. #49
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    Well, at least the Ohlins forks and shocks did work well on streetbikes and racebikes. I guess the trickle-down didn't work as well in this case?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Here's a good article describing some of the intricacies involved in tuning this incredible shock:

    http://www.declinemagazine.com/Displ...?article_ID=48
    i realise the shock is very tuneable, what i'm asking is for you to clarify your statement regarding a custom valved ccdb that you neede an nda for. if this is just a stock ccdb, please just say so. great you are going to provide a starting point for settings but that is a far cry from a custom valved shock.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    You know how many different configurations there are between preload, hsc, lsc, hsr, and lsr + spring rate on a double barrel? We've mapped out our leverage ratio curve and offer recommendations among the myriad of differing configuration settings based on our linear linkage system, the rider, and riding style. Custom valving options are also available - but it's too early to get into all that. I still can't reveal any specifics, sorry. I'm trying to move this thing along more quickly - trying to get more saddle time and R&D on it.

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    Well, I think it is quite safe to assume that:

    Cane Creek is NOT supplying Chumba or Chumba customers with custom tuned shocks. The shocks are the same as what everyone else can buy directly from Cane Creek. The info that Cane creek obtains from you when you buy your shock merely determines the spring rate they will provide, NOT any custom valving.

    Alan may be doing his customers a small favor by providing starting points for the four adjustments, but I find it hard to believe that he can do a good job of that simply based on his experience riding his bike, with his shock. There are simply too many variables to hit that on the head; terrain, riding style, lack of good communication with the customer, etc. If he simply tells his customers to start with each adjuster in the middle of the range, and take it from there, he is re-inventing the wheel, so to speak. Nothing new there. The only thing new is the marketing that Chumba is laying down here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMountain
    Well, at least the Ohlins forks and shocks did work well on streetbikes and racebikes. I guess the trickle-down didn't work as well in this case?
    Maybe, it's not Ohlins first forway into mtb, there was an attempt before under the same name, and it sucked balls.

    The CCDB doesn't suck balls, but it has limitations in terms of damping curve and possibly fluid flow.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Well, I think it is quite safe to assume that:

    Cane Creek is NOT supplying Chumba or Chumba customers with custom tuned shocks. The shocks are the same as what everyone else can buy directly from Cane Creek. The info that Cane creek obtains from you when you buy your shock merely determines the spring rate they will provide, NOT any custom valving.

    Alan may be doing his customers a small favor by providing starting points for the four adjustments, but I find it hard to believe that he can do a good job of that simply based on his experience riding his bike, with his shock. There are simply too many variables to hit that on the head; terrain, riding style, lack of good communication with the customer, etc. If he simply tells his customers to start with each adjuster in the middle of the range, and take it from there, he is re-inventing the wheel, so to speak. Nothing new there. The only thing new is the marketing that Chumba is laying down here.
    Serious question but where was this said about custom valving?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdrawn
    Serious question but where was this said about custom valving?
    in the suspension talk thread; it starts like this:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=551
    to read what happens afterward:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=537048&page=6
    scroll down to post 551 on page six, and read it to the bottom of the page. It speaks for itself.
    ****

  55. #55
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    To avoid a flamefest - I'll address all of the details of how we will administer the program in our upcoming newsletter for our customers.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    To avoid a flamefest - I'll address all of the details of how we will administer the program in our upcoming newsletter for our customers.
    please make this address accessable to those of us that are not your customers as well please.
    ****

  57. #57
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    Man some of you people need to give this a rest. I mean, what the heck does it matter to you what the guy puts on his bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    please make this address accessable to those of us that are not your customers as well please.
    If you are not a customer and never will be then why are you in here?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCETRY
    If you are not a customer and never will be then why are you in here?
    1) It's the internet
    2) this website allows anyone to read threads in any forum, regardless of what kind of bike you own, or plan to own.
    3) I do check out threads related to the ccdb shock.
    4) I check out threads where misconceptions and false declarations about this shock are made.
    5) After reading Alan's Suspension thread, where he set an all time record for BS, and made false claims about the ccdb shock in that thread, and this thread, I am calling him on his Bull s h i t .
    That is why I am here.
    You don't have to like it. You don't have to read my posts.
    ****

  60. #60
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    I personally don't need the protection from all of the internet police that seem to be on MTBR lately.
    Last edited by Bike Poor; 09-16-2009 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    please make this address accessable to those of us that are not your customers as well please.
    If you are so interested, you can e-mail me your Name and e-mail address so I can enter you into our database.
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  62. #62
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    Renegade
    I reckon Alans doing a cracking job of not rising to the bait.

    You really should contemplate winding your neck in though. While i agree you have some valid points you're not half boring while trying to make them(again and again and again!). rather than enlighten people it just looks to me that you have an axe to grind. Not sure if it's with the products themselves or the companies who have the brass neck to market them!

    the CCDB is not perfect. I've experienced the same HS spiking as you on some bikes and in certain situations. However, of all the shocks I've tried it is still the best off the peg shock you can buy IMHO.Comparing it to all fox gear from the last 5/6 years, some Marzocchi and a couple of rockshox inc various custom tuned shocks by PUSH and Stendec. True, I may not have experienced any of the 'real' coil shocks that you have. By the way i'm a Cat. A Fox dealer here in the UK and also sell Marzocchi and Rockshox. The mark up on the CCDB is poor in comparison to the others so I've nothing to gain here by promoting it. This is just my personal opinion based on my limited experience.

    It is a tricky and time consuming shock to set up and for Chumba to go to the bother of helping customers out by providing base settings(which they don't have to use should they be competent enough to set up by themselves) is good customer service in my book. yes the ccdb is new to Alan and no doubt he's learning it as he goes but whats wrong with that?

    keep up the good work Alan and don't rise to the bait.

  63. #63
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    In retrospect, yes, I've had a hard-on for Cane creek for a while, and for Alan lately. I have a hard time with manufacturers lying, plain and simple. So I'm going to back off for now.
    ****

  64. #64
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    One of the first reviews of a VF2 w/ CCDB here if you haven't already seen it: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=556173
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