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  1. #1
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    Platform Clip-In Pedals - why?

    Why not minimalist clip-ins OR flats? Why not one or the other? Why try to combine both?

    What advantage does a clip-in pedal with a clunky heavy base provide? I prefer to be clipped-in 100% of the time on my bike. I suspect most who have been riding with clip-in pedals for a while, do as well. The soles of my shoes are stiff. I donít need a base for them. Again, I assume most who have been riding with clip-in pedals for a while now use similar stiff soled shoes.

    Yet at another popular site, every single ďtrailĒ clip-in pedal tested had a big clunky base on it. As though the minimalist pedals with no base donít even exist anymore.

    Serious question. Why are these types of pedals in and the minimalist clip-in pedals out these days? Part of the enduro craze? But even if so, why are the enduro bros using them?

    If there is some legit reason to use them, I will gladly pick up a set. But it seems to me that most riders are better off with either flats or minimalist clip-in pedals, but not a clunky combo. What am I missing?
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  2. #2
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    in super chunk it's nice to be able to unclip ahead of time, and also stabilize an unclipped foot in case you take a digger. a pedal with more meat can do that and give your unclipped paw a place to stay more secure than an XC race pedal.

    for me though I don't get it, and use XC race shoes (hard as a rock soles) and minimalist XT pedals (would use xtr but they don't last like the old days)
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  3. #3
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    If you dont have time to click in before going into some technical stuff it is pretty neat. Got the saint m820.

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    I never understood it either until it recently dawned on me; last weekend actually.

    My favorite type of riding is very-technical (a little scary). I ride a trail behind my house a lot; there is a secret trail at the top that is pretty rocky with a lot of tough descents and stair-step drops, etc. Last weekend to start the trail I was standing in a creek of rushing water with big boulders, trying to get clipped into my Shimano XT 780 pedals (the basic XC ones), all while navigating through boulders, out of the creek and into a narrow funnel-drop of more rocks.

    I was a train wreck because i was trying to get clipped in and not focused on the terrain.

    This is where a platform / clip hybrid is ideal (I hope). But for the climb up to this trail, and any other "normal" part of the riding for that trail or day, I'll be clipped-in for sure.

    Basically I want the platform so I can drop into a tech section and just be focused on the trail and not worrying about getting clipped in before I can focus on what is ahead.

    FYI: I went with the Crank Brothers Mallet E based on input from friends and several reviews. I personally don't feel that the XT/XTR Trail add much purpose and from what Iv'e seen, most of the SPD-based platforms don't really do much since the SPD puts your foot out of touch with the base anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Why not minimalist clip-ins OR flats? Why not one or the other? Why try to combine both?

    What advantage does a clip-in pedal with a clunky heavy base provide? I prefer to be clipped-in 100% of the time on my bike. I suspect most who have been riding with clip-in pedals for a while, do as well. The soles of my shoes are stiff. I donít need a base for them. Again, I assume most who have been riding with clip-in pedals for a while now use similar stiff soled shoes.

    Yet at another popular site, every single ďtrailĒ clip-in pedal tested had a big clunky base on it. As though the minimalist pedals with no base donít even exist anymore.

    Serious question. Why are these types of pedals in and the minimalist clip-in pedals out these days? Part of the enduro craze? But even if so, why are the enduro bros using them?

    If there is some legit reason to use them, I will gladly pick up a set. But it seems to me that most riders are better off with either flats or minimalist clip-in pedals, but not a clunky combo. What am I missing?
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  5. #5
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    I have XT trail SPDs and I quite like the extended cage (not really a platform as such), they just seems a little easier to get into, although I never really had issues with regular SPDs. If the benefit is in my head, that is fine, as I think they look better, which is worth the extra weight (although so very superficial!). I also ride flats - I switch when I feel the need.

    But I totally agree. What is the deal with clipless pedals with full on platforms, especially those with pins that either don't even touch your shoes, or hinder entry/exit?
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  6. #6
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    I ride relatively stiff shoes (not xc racing stiff) and the platform definitely provides a more stable base while clipped in. I feel it not only on downhills & tech, but pedaling too. Weight, aggressiveness, and how stiff your shoe is will all factor but overall this isn't very complicated. I remember going from Shimano 747 (or whatever but they were a ways back) to 647's being a revelation in my feet feeling planted and that was with Sidi's. I can't speak for everyone but my feet definitely make contact with the platform clipped in.
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  7. #7
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    The point for me, as others have mentioned, is the added stability and when trying to clip in on tech, the platform makes finding the pedal much easier. Even with stiff shoes, I can feel the difference between using the PD-M540 and my PD-M530's, the 530's are much more stable, with the 540 I can feel a slight hot spot where my foot is resting on the pedal that I dont get on the 530. I dont use the super chunky pedals (saints, mallets, etc) any longer, I much prefer the Shimano trail pedals (530), they have much smaller platform, but enough of one to provided the added benefits previously mentioned.
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    Different question...other than a very small weight penalty, what are the disadvantages of having all the perks of both systems at the same time....the additional platform for more stability, being able to use less stiff shoes and still get the power while still being clipped in all seem like pretty big plusses.

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  9. #9
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    ^pedal strikes are reduced with tiny pedals that is about it, just because there is less metal hanging around to hit things that come close. otherwise there really is not a negative to the platform style besides the weight. oh wait they will hold more mud if you run in mud
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  10. #10
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    I am enjoy these for the best of both worlds right now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I wanted the option to choose since some trails are easier and faster than others.

    I wasn't sure if I would like them but they have been pretty easy to work with whether I am clipping in or not.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^pedal strikes are reduced with tiny pedals that is about it, just because there is less metal hanging around to hit things that come close. otherwise there really is not a negative to the platform style besides the weight. oh wait they will hold more mud if you run in mud
    that really depends on the pedal design also. I've can't recall ever noticing pedal strikes anymore common with my 530's than my 540's, if I have they've definitely not been anything like I've had with a larger platform designs like a Mallet or older M647's.
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  12. #12
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    1. If you don't ride stiff sole shoes

    2. Your bike is used around town and you don't like walking in plastic bottom stuff cycling shoes when you go to the grocery store. Occasionally I think they would be nice on my road bike, spd isn't super comfortable in tennis shoes

    3. You're learning and want the option of flats for some things without swapping pedals

    Hell I'm considering for my fat bike so I can run normal boots below 20 degrees, and spd shoes above

    Who knows, they give lots of options for people

  13. #13
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    I've never really understood either. The platforms on most SPD type pedals is almost useless because it doesn't contact my sole unless I'm unclipped and way away from cleat. Otherwise it is just a metal cleat misaligned with a metal clip anyway. And then, how do you keep them from inadvertently from clipping in anyway if you are using them for gnar?

    I own some Welgo pedals that have SPD on one side and a studded flat on the other. In that case I'm hauling a platform around for when my SPD cleats or clips freeze or plug with mud. I can also unclip and use the pinned traction side for sketchy sections. I've gotten really good at figuring out which side is which, and flipping the pedal as needed on the fly.

    Of course those things are almost universally hated, where the scrawny half platform ones that do almost nothing are on more than 50% of the bikes I see. I'm sure it is just me, but I don't understand.

  14. #14
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    I think there's a lot going on here, and we need some examples to clarify.

    I have been a fan of clipless pedals like these for a long time.

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT...020-SPD-Pedals

    Even with stiff soled shoes, there's a bit extra contact area between the shoe and the pedal. This improves the rider's contact with the bike, and thereby control. But with shoes that have slightly more flexible soles, the extra contact can make a big difference in comfort, too, as it can help ward off hot spots.

    They'll work well with just about any clipless shoe, though you may have to trim lugs.

    But, if you wear a more xc-oriented shoe like this:

    https://www.pearlizumi.com/US/en/sho...ide/p/15191901

    then the big pinned platform plus clipless interface just isn't going to work.

    Say, something like these:

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Crank-Brot...-LS-LTD-Pedals

    Yes, the platform will interfere with the shoe clipping in. If you're not clipped in, the shoe won't grip the pedal very well at all. You've got a recipe for suck.

    These pedals are made to go with shoes like this:

    https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-t...shoes#start=21

    Even when clipped in, the platform supports the shoe. Maybe not 100% of the time, but under hard-hitting, rowdy, chunky, big jumps, etc, the big platform is kinda necessary to support the foot.

    When I ride clipless pedals, I simply don't unclip unless I intend to put a foot on the ground. Sometimes I have a little bit of an issue finding the right way to clip in, so I take a pedal stroke or two unclipped, but that's rare, and doesn't require a massive platform to do. For that matter, it's never optimal, no matter what pedals/shoes I'm using, to unclip for a technical spot. The metal cleat always hits something I don't want it to hit and reduces grip on the pedal. The shoe usually doesn't grip the pedal well, so I have less control over the bike. It's just a crappy situation altogether.

    Regardless of what pedals/shoes you're on, when you're riding something technical, you have to commit and you need control. Maybe you need to take a foot off a pedal for balance on skinnies or something, but you can do that whenever with whatever pedal/shoe choice you've made.

    So in that sense, I get where OP is coming from. Claiming that the combo platform/clipless pedals are good for riding in unclipped is BS. No, they're terrible for that. What they're good for are people who like clipless pedals, but want the foot support of a platform pedal.

    There are a number of good reasons to not want to wear super stiff xc shoes. I can't wear them comfortably. They're too stiff across the board to comfortably form to my foot. That's part of the reason I started using platforms such a high percentage of the time. XC shoes suck for hike-a-bike, too. They also aren't really well known for cushioning your feet from impacts. And that's where shoes like those Kestrels come in. They offer advantages of a clipless pedal interface with some of the benefits of a shoe made for platform pedals.

  15. #15
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    Pins on the clipless platform pedals make no sense to me. I see that they can help if you can't clip back in...but at the same time...they can make it harder for you to clip in and out. I had some Crank Brothers Mallet 3's. I took off the pins after a few rides.

    I just use the "XC" sized (currently 9100 XTR and 785 XT) pedals on my bikes. I've found a while ago that if you use nice stiff shoes...the platform size makes very little to no difference. The only part of my shoes that really contact the pedal are the sides of the shoes.

    Sidi and Mavic shoes on the XT Trail.

    Platform Clip-In Pedals - why?-57932215024__afb37fb3-ed8d-4e8e-9fe6-296fbbaf787f.jpg

    Platform Clip-In Pedals - why?-57931655493__de5dc57c-314e-4cc6-b6d4-6a855190f0b1.jpg

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    I reckon there's a difference betweaxed your shoe static in the pedal with no load compared to the bottom of a root or rock drop or railing a berm. Xc stiff shoes I'd tend to agree it doesn't make as big of a difference. For trail riding though there's a reason softer soled shoes and bigger pedals are so popular. I like ice skating but don't like combining it with mtbing.
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    Thanks guys. All of this confirms my suspicions.

    I wear Specialized S-Works shoes with my clip-in, ultra-minimalist Time ATAC carbon pedals. The combo functions flawlessly in all conditions.

    I wear 5-10 Freeriders and Freerider Pros with my Kona Wah Wah 2 pedals. Again, this combo functions flawlessly.

    Sounds to me like there is no need for me to go to platform clip-ins unless I start wearing my 5-10s with clip-in pedals, which I will never do. Ever.
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    If you use pedals like Mallets with the proper shoes it completely eliminates float and accidental rotation causing you to unclip when standing up going down hill or landing jumps.

    When you stand up and put weight on the pedal your foot is locked and not moving at all like with a flat pedal, that feels a lot more secure than having your foot slide around on bare metal. Or you can lower the pins and choose how much rotational friction you want.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post
    If you use pedals like Mallets with the proper shoes it completely eliminates float and accidental rotation causing you to unclip when standing up going down hill or landing jumps.

    When you stand up and put weight on the pedal your foot is locked and not moving at all like with a flat pedal, that feels a lot more secure than having your foot slide around on bare metal. Or you can lower the pins and choose how much rotational friction you want.
    I never unintentionally come out of my clips. It is not an issue for me requiring a solution. But fair enough - it may be an issue for others.

    As for Mallets, from what I have read, the biggest issue with them is chewing through multiple pairs of cleats per season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Thanks guys. All of this confirms my suspicions.

    I wear Specialized S-Works shoes with my clip-in, ultra-minimalist Time ATAC carbon pedals. The combo functions flawlessly in all conditions.

    I wear 5-10 Freeriders and Freerider Pros with my Kona Wah Wah 2 pedals. Again, this combo functions flawlessly.

    Sounds to me like there is no need for me to go to platform clip-ins unless I start wearing my 5-10s with clip-in pedals, which I will never do. Ever.
    I would not compare the XT trail pedals with proper DH or Enduro spec caged clipless pedals. Also, the issue is really when you're riding rough, rowdy trails and you find yourself having to quickly unclip, while still moving at a solid clip through some chunk. On tight, fast downhill switchbacks unclipping is often the fastest way through the corner, but you may not get your foot back in before hitting the next rock garden. I run Time Speciales on my Remedy and have been saved more than once by the cage, allowing me to drop my heel and ride it as a "flat" through a fast rough section of trial. Sometimes I have to unclip just to save myself after catching an "invisible" rock at speed. Being able to ride confidently with a foot unclipped means I don't have to slow down.
    . . . . . . . .

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    I would not compare the XT trail pedals with proper DH or Enduro spec caged clipless pedals. Also, the issue is really when you're riding rough, rowdy trails and you find yourself having to quickly unclip, while still moving at a solid clip through some chunk. On tight, fast downhill switchbacks unclipping is often the fastest way through the corner, but you may not get your foot back in before hitting the next rock garden. I run Time Speciales on my Remedy and have been saved more than once by the cage, allowing me to drop my heel and ride it as a "flat" through a fast rough section of trial. Sometimes I have to unclip just to save myself after catching an "invisible" rock at speed. Being able to ride confidently with a foot unclipped means I don't have to slow down.
    I have been looking at the Speciale 12s or 8s.

    I have only run Time pedals since about 2000. I am a devoted fan, although I am scared to go near the new ones because of the horror stories I have heard. Mine are all vintage 2005 or older.

    I have replacement bearings but I have never had to touch any of them yet. Some of those pedals have a LOT of mileage on them and they are still as smooooooth as ever.

    Anyway, if I take the plunge and test out some platform clip-ins, I will go with the Speciales. Among other things, all my shoes have Time cleats.
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  22. #22
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    I'm not a big fan of the "trail" pedals. The older 545 and 647 helped more allowing you to do quick unclip and clip maneuvers around turns, with their canted mechanism. I find that sometimes your foot bounces off the mechanism on the trail pedals. Then there's the lateral support, just not as good with the trail pedals. People concerned about weight see these though and it's like straight up crack. That said, they aren't that bad, but not my first choice for a good clipless DH pedal.
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    The initial question is classic human fallacy. You presume that, since you do things a certain way and that way works well for you, that no one else could possibly do it differently. Or if they do do it differently, they must be wrong.

    People do stuff differently. Often successfully. Sometimes not.

    If your way works for you, keep at it.

    As to the question, I don't wear super-stiff shoes and the small-ish platform provides some slight support. Is it a big deal? Not really.
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    I read some, then browsed, so not sure if ti's been said properly, but the cage around is not so you can feel comfortable if you don't get clipper in, that's an extra benefit. What the cage does is give you more support for your foot, it makes riding really technical stuff and transferring your weight about much better. I got a set of the NukeProof ones to try and I could immediately feel this phenomenon, unfortunately I did not like the vague feel of their mechanism for clipping in/out, just did not have that solid Shimano "snap" and if I tightened them down to make it more like that, then getting out was almost impossible, so I've just gone back to my regular M540s, but if I find a pedal with similar traits to Shimano in terms of feel clipping in and out, I'd definitely switch.
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    Have you looked at the HT X2s? I've not tried them personally, but I've heard they have a pretty solid retention, especially compared to Time and CB. Might be worth looking into.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I have been looking at the Speciale 12s or 8s.

    I have only run Time pedals since about 2000. I am a devoted fan, although I am scared to go near the new ones because of the horror stories I have heard. Mine are all vintage 2005 or older.

    I have replacement bearings but I have never had to touch any of them yet. Some of those pedals have a LOT of mileage on them and they are still as smooooooth as ever.

    Anyway, if I take the plunge and test out some platform clip-ins, I will go with the Speciales. Among other things, all my shoes have Time cleats.
    I am still riding on 19 year old ATAC aliums bought in 2000. Looking hard at Speciale 8's now. Those old aliums are slippery devils in the wet before clip in. I need something with pins for those "can't clip" right now moments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B52U View Post
    I am still riding on 19 year old ATAC aliums bought in 2000. Looking hard at Speciale 8's now. Those old aliums are slippery devils in the wet before clip in. I need something with pins for those "can't clip" right now moments.
    I'm running Speciale 12s right now. One word of advice. . . make extra sure the shoes will work with the pedals, and be mindful that the pins can destroy the tread of the shoe if you're running regular XC shoes. I'm running Bontrager Rythm shoes (2018) and while I love the look and fit of the shoes, they aren't too great for these kinds of pedals. The inside of the cleat bed needed to be trimmed to allow my foot to rotate out without peeling the tread off (found that out the hard way) and the pins demolished the tread blocks. My next pair of shoes will likely be along the lines of the Kestral Boas from 5/10.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    I'm running Speciale 12s right now. One word of advice. . . make extra sure the shoes will work with the pedals, and be mindful that the pins can destroy the tread of the shoe if you're running regular XC shoes. I'm running Bontrager Rythm shoes (2018) and while I love the look and fit of the shoes, they aren't too great for these kinds of pedals. The inside of the cleat bed needed to be trimmed to allow my foot to rotate out without peeling the tread off (found that out the hard way) and the pins demolished the tread blocks. My next pair of shoes will likely be along the lines of the Kestral Boas from 5/10.
    Great advice. Thanks.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    I'm running Speciale 12s right now. One word of advice. . . make extra sure the shoes will work with the pedals, and be mindful that the pins can destroy the tread of the shoe if you're running regular XC shoes. I'm running Bontrager Rythm shoes (2018) and while I love the look and fit of the shoes, they aren't too great for these kinds of pedals. The inside of the cleat bed needed to be trimmed to allow my foot to rotate out without peeling the tread off (found that out the hard way) and the pins demolished the tread blocks. My next pair of shoes will likely be along the lines of the Kestral Boas from 5/10.
    Did you see any issue with the rear pins on the 12s preventing cleat disengagement due to them grabbing the shoe? I know at least one reviewer removed his rear pins for that reason. Looks like the 8's only have front pins and they sit a bit lower than the springs.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I never unintentionally come out of my clips.
    How is that possible? Even in a crash your feet stayed clipped in?

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    Iíve got 2 bikes, 1 XTR XC & the other XT trail. Ones a light weight trail bike and the other more heavy duty trail/am bike. I ride both bikes on similar trails and I canít tell the difference once clipped in or not. Like you said, once I take my foot out intentionally, my goal is to get them clipped back in as quickly as possible and both are easy to get back into. If I get unclipped unintentionally in some rough terrain, I find itís scary on either pedals. Iíve wondered about this question myself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    How is that possible? Even in a crash your feet stayed clipped in?
    Not sure I am following this. Getting unclipped in a crash is definitely intentional. At least for me. Itís an automatic reaction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B52U View Post
    Did you see any issue with the rear pins on the 12s preventing cleat disengagement due to them grabbing the shoe? I know at least one reviewer removed his rear pins for that reason. Looks like the 8's only have front pins and they sit a bit lower than the springs.
    I have my rear pins run all most all the way in. Yeah, they will tear up a pair of shoes. I would share a pick of the soles of my Rythms, but it really wouldn't be fair to Bontrager or Time as the issue was more of the cleat bed not being wide enough to accommodate the twist needed to get out of a pair of Times. It seems like most shoes I encounter are made specifically for SPDs nowadays, with deep, narrow cleat beds. The tread lugs on the side of the cleat bed get caught on the protective ramp behind the spring of the pedal and tear. Meanwhile the area in between the front and rear (heel) lugs gets torn up by the rear pins of the pedals. I now run my pins so they are just barely sticking up, which is essentially as far in as they will go. I've got one, maybe twoish mm of pin sticking up.
    . . . . . . . .

  34. #34
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    The all-mountain style shoes like these Adidas/5-10s have more surface contact with the platform style clipless pedals. It was hard to get a good photo since I was the only one home at the time but even without my body weight coming down the sole contacts a lot of the platform. When I'm actually standing on the pedal it contacts it even more.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Platform Clip-In Pedals - why?-thumbnail_img_4528.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    The all-mountain style shoes like these Adidas/5-10s have more surface contact with the platform style clipless pedals. It was hard to get a good photo since I was the only one home at the time but even without my body weight coming down the sole contacts a lot of the platform. When I'm actually standing on the pedal it contacts it even more.
    It has never dawned on me to wear 5-10s on anything other than flats. For clip-ins, it has never dawned on me to wear anything other than an uber stiff sole shoe.

    Options are always good. Maybe it's time for me to expand my horizons.
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    After riding either SPDs or several variations of Crank Bros since the 1990s, I stuck a set of flats on my trail bike (RF Chesters) and I'm absolutely LOVING the feel and mobility. I've never had many issues getting in and out of clipless pedals, I just like having the ability to shift my weight around the platform to absolutely RAIL corners.

    I thought I'd miss the efficiency of being clicked-in on climbs but it think that stuff is a little overrated. I don't feel like I'm giving up too much power going uphill while the "fun factor" has significantly increased on descents. I've been wearing Vans on my rides and I think I'm going to invest in some stiffer, platform shoes (I tried on some Ride Concepts at my LBS and I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on those).

    I was a BMX kid growing up so I'm digging the free feeling that flats provide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Owosso View Post
    After riding either SPDs or several variations of Crank Bros since the 1990s, I stuck a set of flats on my trail bike (RF Chesters) and I'm absolutely LOVING the feel and mobility. I've never had many issues getting in and out of clipless pedals, I just like having the ability to shift my weight around the platform to absolutely RAIL corners.

    I thought I'd miss the efficiency of being clicked-in on climbs but it think that stuff is a little overrated. I don't feel like I'm giving up too much power going uphill while the "fun factor" has significantly increased on descents. I've been wearing Vans on my rides and I think I'm going to invest in some stiffer, platform shoes (I tried on some Ride Concepts at my LBS and I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on those).

    I was a BMX kid growing up so I'm digging the free feeling that flats provide.
    This is a different issue, but agreed. I like using both clip-ins and flats. I have decades of experience with clip-ins, and still have lots to learn with flats.

    As for platform clip-ins, I may pick up a set of the Time Seriales (12 or 8) and some 5-10s that I can attach cleats to. Why not? Lifeís short.
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    coming from riding strictly flats to now about 70% flats 30% clipless, one of my biggest issues with clipless is being able to kind of adjust where i'm pressuring on the pedal, its not something i've ever realized i do on flats until i started trying clips.
    with good flats and good shoes, with your heels dropped it feels like you can push into the back half of the platform, or even inside back edge of the platform, almost like a pulling the pedal down from a lower point than the axle feeling, and it seems to make a giant difference in cornering.

    I've had a lot of awkward wash outs or close calls that really surprised me because i cant get that same kind of thing out of flats, so i cant get the tires, rear tire especially to dig in like im used to. the bike feels WAY more skatey, like its sliding around over the surface vs digging the side knobs in. and despite trying different cleat placement and focusing on it a lot i still cant get the same kind of feel.

    So i'm wondering if a clipless pedal with a platform that allows the back part of your shoe to contact the pedal would help with this?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post

    So i'm wondering if a clipless pedal with a platform that allows the back part of your shoe to contact the pedal would help with this?
    I would not expect it to.

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    You may try
    A softer soled shoe with a larger platform
    Moving your cleats for/aft or side to side
    A shoe like Shimano torbal that allows your heel to twist relative to your forefoot. I'm a big fan of torbal for stiff shoes. Side to side cleat placement or even pedals with longer spindles can make a huge difference in cornering leverage at the pedal.
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    So far I have a couple rides on time speciale 8's and I'm really liking them. The pins only come into play if I mid-foot the pedal and they provide a much more stable platform when unclipped than the 20 year old time atac aliums I used to ride.

    However, these are definitely too small to ride regular shoes sans cleats. Have to go with the Link hybrid pedals for that.

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