Do I need anti-seize compound for Ti frame?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Do I need anti-seize compound for Ti frame?

    I understand some metals produce corrode reactions when in contact with each other.

    I also understand that some metals can gall, or cold-weld, against each other when they are subjected to continuous back and forth stresses.

    What I have a hard time understanding is which combinations of metals and materials need some sort of anti-seize compound to prevent all this, especially when it concerns titanium.

    For example, does an aluminum BSA bottom bracket screwing into a titanium frame need anti-seize?

    Do stainless steel bolts screwing into aluminum or titanium need this?

    The last thing I would want to do is wrench together a bike, especially a drivetrain or a cockpit, and find the only way to take it apart for a thorough servicing is to cut it off!

    -=- Boris

  2. #2
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    Stainless steel to SS or titanium will gall and will require anti seize. Aluminum should be okay, but if you are assembling the bike, why not use anti seize on all of the threaded surfaces?
    EXODUX Jeff

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    Thanks for the reply! To be honest, I never really thought about seizing bolts. It was ignorance on my part. I only stumbled on the idea when thumbing through the forum here. There was a thread where someone said they apply a light coat of grease on their Ti seat post to ensure it wonít gall with their Ti frame.

    I usually apply a thin layer of grease on threaded things like cassette lock rings and BB cups. Maybe itís time I use anti-seize compound?

    -=- Boris

  4. #4
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    As Hurricane Jeff says, better to be safe and put anti-seize on all threaded joints. Just be mindful on torque, as the reduced friction may make it easier to strip out. If some fasteners have patch lock, should be OK without anti-seize as that provides a barrier.

    I don't have a Ti bike, but I'll put anti-seize on interfaces like pedal to crank arm threads, and my Cinch lock rings. Also with any stainless bolts, I'll put a bit.

    As a side note, stainless to aluminum is horrible for galling btw.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  5. #5
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    Iím looking for something I can buy locally. My nearby OíReilly auto parts store has a bottle of VersaChem Anti-Seize Lubricant, Type 13. The product description says itís a copper based formula.

    https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...ti+seize&pos=1

    Would something like work well on our bikes?

    -=- Boris

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    That jar will last a life time. You can get a .5 or 1oz tube of Permatex pretty cheapy.

    Like mentioned above, anti-seize is a lubricant. Using a torque wrench on those fine fasteners may result in damage. Also, a little goes a long way. You don't need to coat threads like you may do with a loctite.

    Lastly, the nickel stuff will stain the crap out of stuff. Use a small tube to dab it on the threads an to spread it a little. If you use your finger you'll be washing your hands for a day and a half.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6BQ5 View Post
    I understand some metals produce corrode reactions when in contact with each other.

    I also understand that some metals can gall, or cold-weld, against each other when they are subjected to continuous back and forth stresses.

    What I have a hard time understanding is which combinations of metals and materials need some sort of anti-seize compound to prevent all this, especially when it concerns titanium.

    For example, does an aluminum BSA bottom bracket screwing into a titanium frame need anti-seize?

    Do stainless steel bolts screwing into aluminum or titanium need this?

    The last thing I would want to do is wrench together a bike, especially a drivetrain or a cockpit, and find the only way to take it apart for a thorough servicing is to cut it off!

    -=- Boris
    Aluminum to anything is bad, anti sieze it! Or at least grease. Pretty much any dissimilar metals are subject to it, theres charts showing the galvanic potentials of metals, the farther apart they are the worse. Aluminum is way on the end.
    Titanium is on the other end. The ti itself will be ok, it wont really corrode, but the aluminum will.
    Ti is pretty susceptible to galling, ti to ti is actually really bad for that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taroroot View Post
    Aluminum to anything is bad, anti sieze it! Or at least grease. Pretty much any dissimilar metals are subject to it, theres charts showing the galvanic potentials of metals, the farther apart they are the worse. Aluminum is way on the end.
    Titanium is on the other end. The ti itself will be ok, it wont really corrode, but the aluminum will.
    Ti is pretty susceptible to galling, ti to ti is actually really bad for that.
    The Aluminum shell will seize in a Ti frame without anti-seize, ask me how I know! Glad I used a BB that has replaceable bearings
    :nono:

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    The Aluminum shell will seize in a Ti frame without anti-seize, ask me how I know! Glad I used a BB that has replaceable bearings
    Yup, anti-seize the heck on Ti! The copper stuff from Napa works well, I've actually gone through two of the small bottles! (I use it on my auto parts work too) It tends to "dry" out before I've used all of it, I think what it is that as you near the end you end up with more of the solids and less of the grease in the bottle.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    T
    Like mentioned above, anti-seize is a lubricant. Using a torque wrench on those fine fasteners may result in damage.

    Not true IME. I always grease (or anti-seize) bolts and almost always use a torque wrench and torque to spec. Never a problem.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  11. #11
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    I recently went down this rabbit hole: lubricant and torque on bicycle parts. I looked up the official service instructions for a dozen or so stems and ALL of them give a torque specification and instruct you to grease the threads of the bolts. the idea that greasing threads will cause you to over-torque the threads is mostly not true because the instructions note the torque spec with grease, and specifically tell you not to install the bolts dry.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    The Aluminum shell will seize in a Ti frame without anti-seize, ask me how I know! Glad I used a BB that has replaceable bearings
    Because you're a complete idiot who didn't use anti-seize?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I recently went down this rabbit hole: lubricant and torque on bicycle parts. I looked up the official service instructions for a dozen or so stems and ALL of them give a torque specification and instruct you to grease the threads of the bolts. the idea that greasing threads will cause you to over-torque the threads is mostly not true because the instructions note the torque spec with grease, and specifically tell you not to install the bolts dry.

    specifically, for any threaded fastener, assume dry torque if not also noted somewhere in the manual or remarks to use grease or anti-seize, [or loctite] but for bike assembly it's not that big a deal.

    in engineering in general it is a huge deal to be specific with torque and any lubricants where if things bust loose or a TTY bolt fails...people die or fires start...yeah that needs precision
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

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