Wiped out another jogger. x2 now- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Wiped out another jogger. x2 now

    On my way home today down the MUP, I managed to run into another jogger. Granted I was probably going a little fast at 18-19 mph, she just decided to switch from running on the right side (for her) of the path to the left and right into my path. This happened before about six months ago, so it is obviously my fault. First time though I was under the 15 mph speed limit and it was kind of the same cause.

    At least this time the jogger was prettier, younger and softer than the skinny old guy I ran over six months ago. Better landing, but still didn't feel that good and it wiped out my Campy Ergo shifter Should I have gotten a number

    I have been able to get around some of the path, but this was a section of my route that there is no reasonable alternative other than riding in 3 lanes of traffic with no shoulder.

  2. #2
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    Yeah, if you're riding on an MUP, keep the speed way down and be ready for the unexpected. Or become more accustomed to riding in traffic; what particular 3-lane road is it, and what's the speed limit there? For safety, I know I'd pick a 3-lane arterial over an MUP full of people doing all manner of random stuff whenever they feel like it.

  3. #3
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    That`s odd. Doesn`t weaving prevent getting run over?
    Recalculating....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBrider
    she just decided to switch from running on the right side (for her) of the path to the left and right into my path.
    Were you approaching from behind?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    That`s odd. Doesn`t weaving prevent getting run over?
    Didn't work this time, at least not for the jogger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlar
    Were you approaching from behind?
    No, not really into that. Head-on collision.

  6. #6
    weirdo
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    She probably couldn`t see you because she had her Walkman cranked up.
    Recalculating....

  7. #7
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    I know s#!t happens, but come on man. You gotta be in control of yourself on a MUP. It's the same principle as coming upon a hiker on a trail. Slow the [email protected] down, and anticipate the unexpected stupidity. Learn to react quicker. Get control of yourself man.

    If I was that girl, I woulda kicked you in the balls, and gotten your # for my bills. Pedestrians always have the right of way.

  8. #8
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    Always be prepared to leave the pathway, for the grass, sticks whatever.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    She probably couldn`t see you because she had her Walkman cranked up.
    ...a Walkman...
    definitely her fault...she got distracted putting the B side of her cassette.

  10. #10
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    What a minute, the two of you are approaching one another which means she should be able to see you coming, right? Then she decides to move over into your lane and everybody is saying it's your fault?

    You would have hit her at any rate of speed.

    Am I missing something here?

  11. #11
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    It sounds like both of you were bending the rules of the road, you by speeding & the runner by not staying to the right. But more importantly, how to prevent such collisions??

    Other users will be somewhat more predicatable if they know you are coming. "On your left" or a friendly ringy-dingy bell help for those who can hear you (don't wait til the last second or who knows which way they will jump), but those music lovers are tougher to get through to. Maybe you need to add a different challenge to this section of the trip instead of speed, like perfecting your spin or something.

    I would suggest reporting it, more for design/lobbying purposes in the future than for any action to be taken. Sometimes paths with a dedicated bikelane are pushed for but dumped for lack of money or whatever. If there is evidence of multi-use collisions it could help get better paths built in the future. Here we have a group called the Bike-Pedestrian Coalition that would be interested in this kind of stuff. If nothing like that there, try whoever planned or maintains the path.

  12. #12
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    I would think if you're going on a path inhabited by the local jogging community, you'd keep the speed way down. 18 MPH on one of those just isn't safe for you or them.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5H2O
    What a minute, the two of you are approaching one another which means she should be able to see you coming, right? Then she decides to move over into your lane and everybody is saying it's your fault?

    You would have hit her at any rate of speed.

    Am I missing something here?

    Yeah! I guess you're missing that he's doing 18 mph on a mult use path, and not slowing down when he's approaching something unpredictable. Also the fact that he couldn't take evasive maneuvers to avoid hitting it. Does he have to continue in a straight line? Why could he not make a quick swerve?

    I'm not trying to be hard on the OP, just making a point. Like I said, stuff happens, and I'm all about hauling ass on a bike, but unless I'm making eye contact with upcoming traffic, I slow down to a crawl, and even if I'm making eye contact, I still slow way down so I don't scare them, and so I have time to take evasive action within the laws of the physics of momentum.

    Completely his fault for riding outside his limits of control, and for not expecting stupid behavior from humans. It's called personal responsibility, being aware of your limits and surroundings, and being safe. It's how you don't become a statistic. Ride within your control, especially when it's a multiuse path.

    I'll bet you $100, I could've bailed at the very last second, and not hit her. I would have slowed down to a more manageable speed.

  14. #14
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    He was definitely going too fast, but I guess what we don't know is if she switched lanes
    right at the last moment. People do dumbass things for no reason at all. OP any info?

    All I'm saying is that sometimes things happen that are out of our control.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5H2O
    He was definitely going too fast, but I guess what we don't know is if she switched lanes
    right at the last moment. People do dumbass things for no reason at all. OP any info?

    All I'm saying is that sometimes things happen that are out of our control.

    You got the point about going too fast, but you're missing the most important point.

    Expect everything to do something dumbass. Ride for self preservation at all times. Be a defensive driver, and take control of the situation. Maybe that mindset comes with experience, or maybe it's natural selection.

    She didn't jump out of a bush, sight unseen. He approached her too fast, and without enough room to utilize his skills to avoid a surprise collision. Her fault for jumping lanes, but really his fault for not being prepared for it, and for not being in control of the situation, putting himself in the position of being unable to avoid a surprise move by her. Like I said, even at the very last second, I bet I would've had enough control of the situation to avoid hitting her.

  16. #16
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    Folks can armchair quarterback things to death....coulda', shoulda', woulda' is nothing but crap in my book.

    I'm sure two people learned from this situation, the OP and the jogger.

    I've had close calls on both sides - once on a path where a kayaker (holding his kayak upside down over his head) decided to turn and face the path. I ducked as I rolled on by and luckily missed the boat. It had nothing to do with speed, or the type of path, or anything else aside from ducking at the right moment.

    I've also been out walking the dog and had the dog decide to chase after a squirrel. I had a long, retractable leash and there was a guy approaching on a bike. There was nothing I could do (the locking device on the leash didn't lock so I couldn't stop the dog). I lifted my arm as high as I could so he could ride underneath.

    Speed limits are subjective and unless you have a computer on your bike, you have no idea how fast you're going. I mean seriously, how many people can tell the difference between 15mph and 18mph on a bike. Bottom line is, pay attention and learn from your mistakes and it sounds like the OP has done that.

    ....and yes, I would have gotten her number...and taken her flowers to apologize

  17. #17
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    must be natural selection.

    control of the situation.
    why would you ride so close to a guy carrying a kayak, that if he turned you could hit the kayak? why would he pass a jogger so close, and so fast that if she changed path, he couldn't avoid her? why don't you have control of your dog?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5H2O
    What a minute, the two of you are approaching one another which means she should be able to see you coming, right? Then she decides to move over into your lane and everybody is saying it's your fault?

    You would have hit her at any rate of speed.

    Am I missing something here?
    You are missing that there are self righteous jacka$$es on this board that put in 10 miles a week and think because they have been doing that for 20 years they can do anything. In this case, the collision was unavoidable because she essentially ran into me. On this logic, if I swerve into an oncoming car, that would also be my fault because the car should be looking out for me to do just that.

    The point is not to eliminate any chance of a crash. If we did that, riding on dirt would be absolutely prohibited. Pro racers would be considered among the worst riders around, they crash all the time. I could ride 5mph down the path, but the result would be that I wouldn't ride to work because it would take 3 hours each direction. The point is to balance safety and the ability to ride.

    x - Me
    * - Jogger
    ! - Point of Impact

    **********
    *
    *
    *
    *
    **! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  19. #19
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    18-19 MPH is waaaayyyyy too fast for a MUP, unless you're a roadie in replica Team Astana kit, in which case you aren't going fast enough.
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  20. #20
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    For the record, the jogger was very apologetic. Speed limit is 15, so granted it was above the limit, way too fast it was clearly not.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBrider
    You are missing that there are self righteous jacka$$es on this board that put in 10 miles a week and think because they have been doing that for 20 years they can do anything. In this case, the collision was unavoidable because she essentially ran into me. On this logic, if I swerve into an oncoming car, that would also be my fault because the car should be looking out for me to do just that.

    The point is not to eliminate any chance of a crash. If we did that, riding on dirt would be absolutely prohibited. Pro racers would be considered among the worst riders around, they crash all the time. I could ride 5mph down the path, but the result would be that I wouldn't ride to work because it would take 3 hours each direction. The point is to balance safety and the ability to ride.



    Yeah, that away dude. take no responsibility for yourself, or your irresponsible actions. typical self-righteous jackass, who thinks that just because he rides a bikepath to work everyday, he owns it, and shouldn't have to be prepared for the unexpected.

    And yes if you swerve into an on coming car.... that is also your fault too. natural selection will sort you out one day.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBrider
    x - Me
    * - Jogger
    ! - Point of Impact

    **********
    *
    *
    *
    *
    **! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    looks like you have a point of impact and then take off on your separate ways
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBrider
    On this logic, if I swerve into an oncoming car, that would also be my fault because the car should be looking out for me to do just that.
    Correction. We here in the commuter forum support and encourage swerving into traffic. Ask anybody.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    must be natural selection.

    control of the situation.
    why would you ride so close to a guy carrying a kayak, that if he turned you could hit the kayak? why would he pass a jogger so close, and so fast that if she changed path, he couldn't avoid her? why don't you have control of your dog?
    I was riding along the path of a river. I watched the guy pick up the kayak and talk to his friend. As I approached, he turned. He (the kayak) was not on the path until he turned. Screaming did not help.

    I did have control of the dog. When I went to lock the leash, the mechanism failed. I threw out that leash when I got home.

    Accidents are called ACCIDENTS for a reason. Stuff happens - has nothing to do with natural selection.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    Correction. We here in the commuter forum support and encourage swerving into traffic. Ask anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by EBrider
    You are missing that there are self righteous jacka$$es on this board that put in 10 miles a week and think because they have been doing that for 20 years they can do anything.
    Right, and we currently have no new openings for self righteous jacka$$es, that Department is fully staffed.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    looks like you have a point of impact and then take off on your separate ways
    Pretty funny, but it turns out you can't put spaces in the beginning of a line. I'll do a re-enactment and post it on YouTube.

  27. #27
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    Arrgggh.

    Accidents do happen, I conceded that point in my first post on the topic, but most accidents can be avoided by situational awareness, and acting accordingly. Including your two close calls, and the OP's collision.

    Why were you not anticipating the kayaker coming into your path, and checking your speed as if he would, thus giving you time to react accordingly? Luckily, you were able to duck in time. Same goes for the OP. It's totally her fault for being stupid and unaware, and changing paths, but why did he not anticipate the potential for it happening? Why did he not give more room for error?

    I'm not saying the accident is his fault, I'm saying that not being aware, and in control of the situation is. It was probably avoidable, if only he had checked his speed, and given her a wider area in passing. If this happened between him and a turning car, it would be the car's fault, but he'd still be DEAD.

    Hopefully I'm not the only one who sees my point.

  28. #28
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    Oh mam a "deer in the headlights crash"

    those suck. each person expects the other to break off the same path as your distance closes..fast and reaction times diminish. Glad to hear no one was hurt. hey next time bring a camera.

  29. #29
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    You're all jackasses.

    I want to hear more about, "...prettier, younger and softer..."
    .

    I may not have the best of everything, but I have the best everything that matters.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred-da-trog
    You're all jackasses.

    I want to hear more about, "...prettier, younger and softer..."
    +2

    Pics or it didnt happen lol jk

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presta Pusher
    I was riding along the path. I watched the guy in his car, in his driveway, stop and talk to his friend. As I approached, he pulled out. He (the car) was not on the path until he pulled out. Screaming did not help.

    Accidents are called ACCIDENTS for a reason. Stuff happens - has nothing to do with natural selection.
    sorry dude, but I can't let it go, until I at least know that everybody gets where I'm coming from on this. See your quote above.

    Situational awareness, taking control of the situation, and acting accordingly can save your life.

    During the 7 seconds of this situation above, you see the car, realize he may not see you, and check your speed, while looking for a way out. You then realize he is indeed pulling out, but it's OK, you've checked your speed in advance, and are somewhat prepared. You hit the brakes hard, turning to the open space by the mailbox. Come to a stop, give the guy the finger, and live to ride another day. You will never be able to duck under a car comfortably.

    And oh yeah ^ this exact scenario has happened to me TWICE, and other "close calls" but I ride on. natural selection at work.

    sorry for beating the dead horse everybody.

  32. #32
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    I thought we all figure this out earlier

    she



    was running like on 0:07

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/apfO3SsnTRI&hl=es_MX&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/apfO3SsnTRI&hl=es_MX&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    sorry dude, but I can't let it go, until I at least know that everybody gets where I'm coming from on this. See your quote above.

    Situational awareness, taking control of the situation, and acting accordingly can save your life.

    During the 7 seconds of this situation above, you see the car, realize he may not see you, and check your speed, while looking for a way out. You then realize he is indeed pulling out, but it's OK, you've checked your speed in advance, and are somewhat prepared. You hit the brakes hard, turning to the open space by the mailbox. Come to a stop, give the guy the finger, and live to ride another day. You will never be able to duck under a car comfortably.

    And oh yeah ^ this exact scenario has happened to me TWICE, and other "close calls" but I ride on. natural selection at work.

    sorry for beating the dead horse everybody.
    I have no clue why your getting cars and kayaks mixed up. The guy picked up a kayak, put it over his head, and TURNED AROUND. There was no backward movement, no forward movement. I was aware of the situation - it's why I friggin' ducked.

    You're probably too young to remember the Three Stooges - same deal. The guy with the kayak wasn't paying attention. Someone yells out and he looks at you like an idiot.

    Of course, your so damn nonchalant about accidents that you would have swerved off trail to the left (where there were boulder between the path and the stream) or to the right, where there were two other kayaks laying there in the way. Oh wait, you'd rather sit behind the computer and speculate even though you don't know my situation or the OP's situation

    Get a friggin' clue - you don't know it all and you need to get out from behind the computer and experience life to understand that sometimes you can't control things. Hell, babysit for a weekend and let kids teach you the lesson.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presta Pusher
    I have no clue why your getting cars and kayaks mixed up. The guy picked up a kayak, put it over his head, and TURNED AROUND. There was no backward movement, no forward movement. I was aware of the situation - it's why I friggin' ducked.

    You're probably too young to remember the Three Stooges - same deal. The guy with the kayak wasn't paying attention. Someone yells out and he looks at you like an idiot.

    Of course, your so damn nonchalant about accidents that you would have swerved off trail to the left (where there were boulder between the path and the stream) or to the right, where there were two other kayaks laying there in the way. Oh wait, you'd rather sit behind the computer and speculate even though you don't know my situation or the OP's situation

    Get a friggin' clue - you don't know it all and you need to get out from behind the computer and experience life to understand that sometimes you can't control things. Hell, babysit for a weekend and let kids teach you the lesson.

    Well damn it Moe, it's obvious my point is lost, and I'm the a$$#ole ... so why stop now?

    I typically ride between 100 to 150 miles a week. I must be the luckiest mf'er on the planet, because apparently, avoiding head-on accidents is obviously all just about luck and hope.

    The only thing I can cut a little slack on, is something running me down from behind, or something hidden, jumping out. Any other accident, I see as my fault for not being aware of the situation, and not responding appropriately. I'm the complete opposite of nonchalant (love that word).

    Nonchalant is hitting an erratic pedestrian, or having to scream as you duck under a random kayak. I know, I know... it was out of your control, and random, but only because you were too nonchalant to expect the possibility of the occurrence, when you saw it. Maybe if you had taken that kayak to the face, you would get a friggin' clue, and wouldn't nonchalantly ride around, hoping nobody does something stupid in front of you.

    Out of my control is the weather. (edit) which is why I'm sitting behind my computer, not experiencing life.

    Stay lucky Moe. I hope your kids never have to teach you a lesson.
    Last edited by d365; 03-26-2010 at 12:25 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred-da-trog
    You're all jackasses.

    I want to hear more about, "...prettier, younger and softer..."
    Yeah, this thread went a different direction than I thought.

    If I were thinking, would have pulled out the cell phone for pics at least.

  36. #36
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    yah next time get pics Offer to give a free massage to ease the pain as well lol.
    Pedestrians do some weird ****.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    Out of my control is the weather.
    singlehandedly the most arrogant thing I've read in a long time.
    don't take that as a compliment, it's not.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts
    singlehandedly the most arrogant thing I've read in a long time.
    don't take that as a compliment, it's not.
    Damn, what I meant to say, in response to PP's post, was -

    Out of my control is the weather, which is why I'm sitting behind this computer, instead of experiencing life.

    Would've made a lot more sense, if I had finished the thought, but like I said, I'm obviously the a$$#ole at this party.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    I'm the complete opposite of nonchalant

    I'm quite chalant myself.


    Both sides of this one have good points. I declare no one the winner, and impose no fines or penalties.

    Accidents happen, and we can work hard at avoiding them. Lets go ride bikes.
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  40. #40
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    Not much you can do if a jogger steps around right in front of you. On my local MUP there are granite markers every 1/4 mile embedded in the pavement. Joggers will often run up to one, do an immediate pivot and jump into the other lane without warning. They are usually listening to their Ipods with the volume turned all the way up. No amount of announcing "on your left" or slowing down below 12mph could prevent a wreck. I have been lucky to avoid an accident there. Last fall a male jogger did this and I hooked his ipod earbud cable with my barends. Ripping them off. He apologized 3-4 times.

    People just don't pay attention. There is no amount of personal awareness and readiness you can bring to a situation like that.

  41. #41
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    ^^ I had that same thing happen with a fan's handbag when I was climbing Alpe d'huez in the tour once...I was wearing yellow at the time, and I went down hard. It pissed me off good and I kicked Jan Ullrich's butt up the rest of the climb.
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  42. #42
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    Hahahahahahahaha Right on

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