Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents- Mtbr.com
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    Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents

    I highly recommend this podcast, interviewing Josh Zisson an attorney in Boston, with his own practice specializing in bike law: E059 – Josh Zisson: Bike Safe Boston | The Sprocket Podcast

    (and see his web-site: Bike Safe Boston: a Boston biking blog, written by a lawyer specializing in bike law ).

    Josh recommends that all cyclists use 2 cheap "police body camera" style video recorders; with one facing front and one facing backwards, whenever they ride. These simple flash memory video cameras can record a days worth of video, and you would simply strap it to your helmet, jacket, and/or backpack; and use it as a daily commute recorder. If nothing happened that day you could erase the memory (or allow the camera to continuously over-write the memory) and go about your day. However if a car hits you, you will have it all recorded.

    Josh Zisson mentions that this video evidence is key in getting a fair settlement from the motorist's insurance company to cover your rehabilitation costs.

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    The Rideye camera records a continuous loop and the batteries last 15 hours.

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    A few media articles supporting this idea:

    Legally Speaking with Bob Mionske: Riding with video cameras:
    Legally Speaking with Bob Mionske: Riding with video cameras - VeloNews.com

    Cameras Are Cyclists Black Boxes in Accidents - NYTimes
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/07/21..._r=0&referrer=

  4. #4
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    ^ Bob Mionske points out that it may not be legal in your state to record an officer's voice without his consent. Federal las allows recording if one person in the conversation gave consent, but states might restrict that. Indiana does not, though my local police department may not be well informed:

    Indianapolis cops must allow citizens to film police activity after $200k settlement — RT USA

    The point about stopping for all stop signs while videoing is going to hurt when 50% of motorists here roll 'em. Another interesting point: slapping a car or truck about to hit you to help fend it off seems to be OK (at least defensible from a self defense standpoint). Striking it after the fact can be taken as assault. It you wear a camera, you need to be on good behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc View Post
    ^ Bob Mionske points out that it may not be legal in your state to record an officer's voice without his consent. Federal las allows recording if one person in the conversation gave consent, but states might restrict that. Indiana does not, though my local police department may not be well informed:

    Indianapolis cops must allow citizens to film police activity after $200k settlement — RT USA

    The point about stopping for all stop signs while videoing is going to hurt when 50% of motorists here roll 'em. Another interesting point: slapping a car or truck about to hit you to help fend it off seems to be OK (at least defensible from a self defense standpoint). Striking it after the fact can be taken as assault. It you wear a camera, you need to be on good behavior.
    Around here slapping a car would not be assault....other laws would apply.

    Assault includes threating some one with force, adn assualt and battery includes actual use of force.

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    ^ Mioske wrote:"For example, some jerk pushes you off the road with his vehicle and you threaten him and pound his hood with a fist. Cop shows up, dude now feigns innocence and tells the officer, I didnt see him. At best, that is only an admission of negligence and unfortunately, the cop will usually not issue a ticket, even with the video.

    On the other hand, your admitted threat and fist pound on his iron beast? That was intentional behavior. If you are lucky, video footage or not, he will let you roll off. But not always. Sometimes youll get arrested! Even a simple tap on the vehicle can be construed as assault. Remember, never touch the other guys vehicle. It can be used as a pretext to charge YOU with assault or intimidation."

    (Read more at Legally Speaking with Bob Mionske: Riding with video cameras - VeloNews.com)

    This will be influenced by state and provincial law of course, and worse, by the ignorance of the law enforcement person all too often. I had a driver stop within a foot of hitting me in front of a Deputy who blew it off as his cruiser distracting the driver! His point is that if you are going to video things you need to be squeaky clean yourself.

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    ^ thanks Brian. Always good to know.

    I'd like to get a camera (or 2), and I don't mind following the rules of the road, but if I'm not allowed to kick vehicles then maybe not.

  8. #8
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    ^ Fending off a vehicle? That is self defense. The dead stop at every stop sign when I found out that just confuses drivers here, and half the drivers roll 'em at up to 20 mph, is going to be fun to implement. I stop for all lights already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thestar.com, Last Summer
    Toronto police Const. Clinton Stibbe cautioned that police dont accept edited-down videos as evidence, and people may not want to submit their camera footage from an entire ride, since it likely also contains proof of their own traffic violations. Theyre going to make at least one mistake on that trip, intentionally or not, Stibbe said.
    Quote Originally Posted by thestar.com, Last Fall
    Toronto Police have little to go on as they investigate a double shooting in Malvern, and they're urging witnesses to come forward.
    I wonder if there were any riders with gopros rolling through Malvern that day.....
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

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    Can set a go pro to film over. Only stores 5 minutes and keeps recording over. Just need to remember to hit stop after and incident. Guess it doesn't help if your knocked out and the camera keeps going and going.
    Fatbike, XC bike, Gravel Bike....

  11. #11
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    I have a friend who slapped a car who blasted through a crosswalk and nearly hit him. cop saw it happen and chewed him out. So yeah, don't hit cars.

  12. #12
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    ^ So did another officer chase down the driver? Or did this poor schmuck get reamed while the perp got away? Seems a temporary insanity plea caused by a near death experience would be understood by most officers. I guess it counts as taking the law into your own hands and officers get real testy about that.

    I had a guy careen out of a parking lot near the arena in Indy out of an alley across the sidewalk without slowing or looking and almost over my toes (an inch shy). I slapped his SUV. This was pre-camera phone days or I would have had his picture & plate and called him in as DUI. I vowed next time to say he hit me as he had no clue how close he came or what that sound was. Some feedback seems appropriate. After he learned he almost ran over me he still threatened to call the cops (got the impression he was a lawyer). I had a son to get home from the Who concert as he had school, otherwise, I'd have taken him up on it. Now with a camera phone, I'd photo his plate and just call him in as a possible DUI. That is easier justice.

    I am finding it hard to remember to come to a full stop all the old stop signs (no traffic except rarely) for benefit of the camera. The 5 minute loop sounds good, but it needs to continue if the bike stops or a new loop begin. A GPS tie-in in software?

    I understand cops not wanting to deal with every traffic violation a cyclist records from cagers. So the threat to search the entire recoding to write the cyclist up, to reduce a torrent of video is understandable, if heavy handed. Still, in the US, equal treatment seems to beg that every motor vehicle infraction on such a recording be pursued and ticketed if every thing the cyclist did is cited. Maybe just one failure to cite might throw it all out in court? Also I wonder if your lawyer can submit a partial recording or the whole with 5th amendment protection for the portions not relating to the incident in question? Police barely have time enough for murders, and rapes don't get followed up as much as they should according to some sources, so I don't see them spending the time to track down every bad driver on my videos. So maybe that is the counter threat. If you cite me you have to cite every driver and since the vehicle but not the drover is identified, good luck with that. I wonder if an officer's vehicle video is evidence for citable traffic violations?

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    ^ "Oops, I accidentally fell and accidentally punched your car as you accidentally almost ran me over..."

    I've mentioned this before, but during the 3 years that I walked to work, punching vehicles was easily a monthly and probably a bi-weekly occurrence.

    I can't remember if I mentioned this or not, but nowadays whenever I use a crosswalk (as a pedestrian, and often with my dog), I've started to pull out my phone and conspicuously point it at oncoming traffic. And it's amazing how well the cowards behave when they think they're being held accountable.

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    ^ I suspect that if I have hauled out the camera phone I carry now that Mr. DUI Ahhsoul would have shut up, got back in the car, and tore out of there! Note to self: have the camera function up and ready for easy access in future. Done.

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    ^ even just the threat of it is good. But it's much easier on foot than on a bike.

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    The "New" Cycliq Fly6 HD Rear Bike Camera/ lights are available from REI for $169 w/ free shipping:

    Cycliq Fly6 HD Camera and Rear Bike Light - REI.com

    Good price vs. $200 on Amazon and $249 elsewhere.

    Review:
    Cycliq Fly6 combination tail light and HD camera review - BikeRadar USA

    Footage:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWxyqX9MW8

  17. #17
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    Do you think the old charades clue for movie (mime hand cranking an old movie camera) would work?

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    ^^ Or the Director's "Frame" with index fingers and thumbs?

    The Fly6 has a tilt function that stops the over writing loop. I wish the GoPro had that feature. A few citations in 5 minutes to nail a driver for a dangerous and illegal move is tolerable.

  19. #19
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    A device I did not know of:

    ICEdot Crash Sensor review - BikeRadar USA

    I wonder if it could be used to signal a GoPro to stop the 5 minute loop through bluetooth and a phone ap as well as call 911 and family/friends?

  20. #20
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    I've kept an eye on the products coming from SJCam. Specifically, the SJ4000 and M10 cube. The price for each is less than $100 and the reviews (here, here) say good things with only minor issues.

  21. #21
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    Bah. Buying bike stuff should not be like buying computers was back in the 80s/90s - "If I just wait 6 months I can get a new model that's better, faster and cheaper" - repeated ad infinitum.

    But that being said, around here we don't have front license plates, so if I'm going to do this then I 100% need two cameras, so I'm going to wait a few more product-cycles.

  22. #22
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    I have a go-pro recording in 1080 from the handlebar and the original Fly6 model recording the rear.

    Yesterday on my commute homw I came up to a stop sign, initiated my stop well in advance of it, and the car coming down the cross street from my right cut the corner really bad, nearly hitting me as I put my feet down to jump myself and the bike out of the way. In the end I don't think the guy ever saw me, the entire turn he was looking out to the right and not even slightly into the turn.

    The go-pro footage was excellent to see what was going on, but in AZ we don't have front license plates. The Fly6 only records at 720 and that wasn't good enough to read the license plate despite it passing within 5 feet of the camera.

    I wish the updated Fly6 had updated to 1080 resolution.

    Attached are images from the near incident, giving a rough idea what this combination of cameras will show.

    Last week I had a school bus buzz past me, I purposely take a low traffic, low speed limit 2-lane road for part of the commute as to not inconvenience any drivers. I take a whole lane but passing should never be an issue. Thanks to go-pro I had all the bus information, I emailed a transportation trainer in the district with the picture of bus about a foot away and she was very sympathetic with my story, said she would have a talk with the driver. I would like to think it's been worth taking video the last few months on my commutes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents-vlcsnap-2015-04-24-14h50m54s3.jpg  

    Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents-vlcsnap-2015-04-23-19h17m55s190.jpg  


  23. #23
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    ^ Yes, I had some 720 res video and you can't read plates. Possible that a video processing program might get a few characters but 1080 is needed. I suspect you are right that the driver did not know you were even there.

  24. #24
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    Huh, I thought we were a rare backwater that doesn't require front plates (or at least one of the few canadian provinces) but it's actually pretty common:


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