Totally came unglued.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Totally came unglued.

    I commute about 25mi each way a time or two a week. It's generally a nice way to spend and hour and a half tooling along on the bike before and after work.

    On my way in the other day I came to a T intersection that has an island in it so it looks more like a Y with a line across the top of it. I was coming from the stem of the Y. I was going left and as I signaled with my hand then looked back to check, some Wally Wick came around (with no blinker) to go right. If I hadn't looked, I would have got drilled. The guy continues on to the stop sign oblivious he came less than a foot away from wiping me out.

    I rolled up to the car and pounded his hood, hands in the air "WHAT THE FVCK"!

    He rolls down his window and says "I had the right of way".

    "No you didn't"

    "I had the right of way, you're on a bike"

    And I went right to def-con one. As he rolled up his window and started to turn away, I wound up and drilled his window. I half thought it was going to break as it was flexing inward. His head snapped around and his eyes became as large as saucers. I couldn't tell if he was going to kill me or if he was intimidated, but he didn't speak after that.

    Like I was scolding a child or a dog, face and index finger almost in his car, but with much more profanity.

    "Fvck you, you did not have the right of way!
    "You did not have the right of way, and if you want to ask the police we can do that right now"!
    "You did not have the fvcking right of way"!

    Standing there still staring & pointing, he just stared back saying nothing, rolled up his window and very slowly drove off.


    I haven't lost it like that while on the bike in a few years. My only regrets are that I didn't hose him and his dash with my water bottle and I didn't call him a cvnt, or a fvckin fvck.

    For the record, it didn't make me feel better.

  2. #2
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    I have had a few moments myself, never this extreme, but a few that pissed people off. I realized that it's almost never worth it. What is sometimes worth it is to calmly explain to a driver why they were wrong. While you still have a slim chance of making them understand, at least you also reduce the chance of them kicking your ass. I had a girl run a stop sign and almost hit me. She then got stuck in a line of traffic so I rolled up next to her and banged on her window and threw my hands up like "what the hell?" then this guy in a pickup comes up and starts screaming at me. Another time a lady moved over into the shoulder without looking and almost hit me, I flipped her off and she then pulled up next to me and starting taking pictures of me with her phone. That one freaked me out because I assumed she was going to look for me again or send her husband after me or something.

    Anyway, point being, getting pissed helps approximately 0.001% of the time. Better chance you'll get your ass kicked. Just calmly explain that right hooking someone is illegal. I've actually considered carrying a copy of the rights of cyclists with me so I can prove it.

    I see you live in Worcester, you're not far from me. I live in Holliston and commute to Framingham. This whole area isn't very cyclist friendly. Try to keep a cool head. Massachusetts cycling laws can be found here if you want to carry them to show people:

    Bike Law | MassBike

  3. #3
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    It was the adrenaline talking.

  4. #4
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    it would have been difficult for me to avoid coming unglued in that situation, too. ouch. definitely adrenaline.

  5. #5
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    Hey Straz85, it was at the Common coming onto Edgell Rd. There are no good ways to get there from here. I'm more comfortable around Boston and wish I were still between Boston and the Ham. I don't commute at night or in foul weather anymore cause the roads and drivers suck that bad.

    This guy was young and had no clue. He thought cyclists didn't have the right of way. At that point I just blew up. He was young enough that I know he was at least told that in drivers ed, and/or his learners permit exam.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Re View Post
    Hey Straz85, it was at the Common coming onto Edgell Rd. There are no good ways to get there from here. I'm more comfortable around Boston and wish I were still between Boston and the Ham. I don't commute at night or in foul weather anymore cause the roads and drivers suck that bad.

    This guy was young and had no clue. He thought cyclists didn't have the right of way. At that point I just blew up. He was young enough that I know he was at least told that in drivers ed, and/or his learners permit exam.
    Haha, that's hilarious. I rode right by that intersection yesterday on my way back from Concord. That's a tough area, so close to Rt. 9.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Re View Post
    I was going left and as I signaled with my hand then looked back to check, some Wally Wick came around (with no blinker) to go right. If I hadn't looked, I would have got drilled. The guy continues on to the stop sign oblivious he came less than a foot away from wiping me out.
    I'm not trying to say that this was your fault. It wasn't. It was his fault.

    However, it sounds like you need to be more aggressive about placing your bike in your lane rather than being aggressive after somebody overlooks you and almost kills you.

    I commuted for years and tens of thousands of miles on a motorcycle in L.A., and some of the best advice I ever heard was to assert myself on the bike by blocking as much of my lane as possible otherwise the cagers will try to share your lane.

    In your case, it sounds to me like you should've gotten out into the middle your lane, rather than hugging the right side of the road.
    Then the dipshit driver would've definitely seen you, and to pass you he would've had to drive right over you.

    Similarly, if/when I need to make a left turn, I wait 'til there's no car bearing down on me from behind, and then I go right out into the middle of the lane.

    If you leave cars "almost" enough space to squeeze by you, then they'll run you off the road trying to squeeze by.
    If you put yourself in the middle of the lane, then the cagers may be impatient, but they'll see you, and they won't even think of trying to squeeze around you.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer74 View Post
    Similarly, if/when I need to make a left turn, I wait 'til there's no car bearing down on me from behind, and then I go right out into the middle of the lane.
    Thats what I do.
    If there is a left turn lane, I will get in it asap

  9. #9
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    Joe_re mass is hard for bikes no doubt, take the lane on those cagers. make them see you and go around you if they wish. Keep at it and come see me some time.
    Save a tree & wipe your butt with an owl.
    Thank your local Sierra Club.

  10. #10
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    I wonder how this study would work with commuting cyclists?

    It struck me that this study has some room to debate methodology. I was looking for a spot that it would add to the discussion. Totally becoming unglued seems a perfect thread for this.

    Exercise Can Literally Change How You See The World, Simulation Study Reveals

    I wonder how we would respond after say 10 minutes vigorously pedaling versus mostly coasting in light friendly traffic, or after having been told to ride on the sidewalk, or after having been crowded some, or nearly hit as in this thread. Do you think the exercise component of pedaling versus coasting would have much effect on our attitude to these things? The study seems to suggest that we might react better if pedaling our butts off.

    It seems I may have over extrapolated the results.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc View Post
    It struck me that this study has some room to debate methodology. I was looking for a spot that it would add to the discussion. Totally becoming unglued seems a perfect thread for this.

    Exercise Can Literally Change How You See The World, Simulation Study Reveals

    I wonder how we would respond after say 10 minutes vigorously pedaling versus mostly coasting in light friendly traffic, or after having been told to ride on the sidewalk, or after having been crowded some, or nearly hit as in this thread. Do you think the exercise component of pedaling versus coasting would have much effect on our attitude to these things? The study seems to suggest that we might react better if pedaling our butts off.

    It seems I may have over extrapolated the results.
    Not sure how this applies...

    Yesterdays commute home...pulling up to a light, buddy blows by me on a cyclocross bike, nearly nicks my handle bars.

    He pulls up to the second car in line, and starts to instruct the driver he needs to shoulder check before swerving into the bike lane. Anyway the driver beaks off back at him... So I pull up and to support my fellow biker...look the driver in the eye and just point at him (didn't see what happened) anyway the driver shuts up and looks guilty.

    Light changes and Buddy pumped with Adrelalin takes off like a bat out of hell...

    I catch up and sit on his rear....he still hasn't calmed down so we got a Cat 5 race going.

    We have to go down and under a brige so he jumps off and runs his bike down the steep grass hill rather than taking the path....I of course just ride it.

    So off we go blasting down, the path at probably 40 kph...

    He finally has blown off the steam about a k later....and finally starts to slow down.

    Didn't even talk with me but I had to turn off his route anyway...

    Probably one of the better intervals for him. Don't think the adrelalin rush would hurt him since he got rid of it right away.

  12. #12
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    I learned a while ago to not talk to my wife right after I get home.

    I step in the door, dripping in sweat, trying to put my gear away, still pissed from that moron driver, or still exhilarated from the trail, and if she asks me a question I'm not going to give a cheerful answer. But once I've had a bit of time to put my stuff away and change then my brain will be back to normal.

    The difference is that I don't want to snap at my wife, but snapping at idiot drivers is a-ok.

  13. #13
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    I just had a similar ungluing a few days ago. I was downtown riding behind a transit bus. There's only one traffic lane each way and the bus was at a stop blocking traffic. So I move center into the lane so the cars don't try to squeeze me out. Well we're just past an intersection and apparently a guy made the left from the cross street behind me and then since there wasn't enough room past the intersection for him started to crowd me and come up on my left side. So I turn around and give him the "what the heck?!! don't crowd me" look. He mouths move over and does a motion with his hand. I go off and start yelling at him "F*&^ you, I have a right to the lane!", he starts yelling at me to "get over, you're a bike" which unleashes more "F*&$ you"s from me. The best part was a guy two car's back yells up "F*&^ him, he cut me off to get through the intersection, he is an a$$hole."

    Anyways, it happens to me once every week or two. I had another one in a not nice part of town where I had to take the lane to get through an intersection with a straight lane and a right turn lane (my city loves putting those in). Guy yelled at me to get out of the road, I yelled back, "i'll ride wherever the F&*@ I want". He drove a little then slammed on the brakes. Thought I might have to pull the U-lock out and rumble. Just was hoping he didn't have a gun.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentheKona View Post
    I just had a similar ungluing a few days ago. I was downtown riding behind a transit bus. There's only one traffic lane each way and the bus was at a stop blocking traffic. So I move center into the lane so the cars don't try to squeeze me out. Well we're just past an intersection and apparently a guy made the left from the cross street behind me and then since there wasn't enough room past the intersection for him started to crowd me and come up on my left side. So I turn around and give him the "what the heck?!! don't crowd me" look. He mouths move over and does a motion with his hand. I go off and start yelling at him "F*&^ you, I have a right to the lane!", he starts yelling at me to "get over, you're a bike" which unleashes more "F*&$ you"s from me. The best part was a guy two car's back yells up "F*&^ him, he cut me off to get through the intersection, he is an a$$hole."

    Anyways, it happens to me once every week or two. I had another one in a not nice part of town where I had to take the lane to get through an intersection with a straight lane and a right turn lane (my city loves putting those in). Guy yelled at me to get out of the road, I yelled back, "i'll ride wherever the F&*@ I want". He drove a little then slammed on the brakes. Thought I might have to pull the U-lock out and rumble. Just was hoping he didn't have a gun.
    I used to do this more until I realized I take the same route at the same time most days, so people will potentially be able to find me again. After some lady started taking pictures of me after I flipped her off, I got scared she was going to send someone after me, so for the last few months of last year, I took a different route. After that, I really made a concerted effort to calm down.

  15. #15
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    Aloha Joe_R,

    I can say I've been there. Scares the crap out of me because I hate to loose control. And no matter how right I am, loosing against a many-ton vehicle cannot end nicely. That driver would still be wrong but being maimed or dead just doesn't seem good to me. I'm not preaching. I'm just trying to say yes, I've been there too. Phew. I wish there were some easy, universal way to "educate" drivers and them learning just a little more patience could go a long way with everyone's happiness. I often try to deescalate the situation and ask them to please be considerate because it might be another irate driver with their kids or family. Doesn't always work because they just don't see it as most of them don't ride bikes because "it's dangerous" (to them).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Re View Post
    For the record, it didn't make me feel better.
    Because he lived.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmats View Post
    Phew. I wish there were some easy, universal way to "educate" drivers and them learning just a little more patience could go a long way with everyone's happiness. I often try to deescalate the situation and ask them to please be considerate because it might be another irate driver with their kids or family. Doesn't always work because they just don't see it as most of them don't ride bikes because "it's dangerous" (to them).
    The dilemma is the drivers who are not paying attention, or driving distracted....

    really resent when you force you way into their world.

    In practice that puts these drivers on edge.....you either need to continue at the level that was required to get their attention or more....

    If you back down or ease too much...they go back to veggie state.

    Not always of course but too many times in my experience.

    And these are the drivers that need the most "input"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straz85 View Post
    I used to do this more until I realized I take the same route at the same time most days, so people will potentially be able to find me again. After some lady started taking pictures of me after I flipped her off, I got scared she was going to send someone after me, so for the last few months of last year, I took a different route. After that, I really made a concerted effort to calm down.
    I often travel the same route to work as well, though I try to change it up some days. I don't change it because of other people. I often see motorists that I have had encounters with in the past. I often wave at them and say, "Hello." Mostly I get confused looks of, "Who is this guy waving at me?"

    My favorite repeat bad driver rides a custom Harley. I can hear him before I see him. I just love messing with this guy. He assaulted me after nearly crashing his ride while speeding through a pinch-point and passing me on the right through an intersection. Of course he blamed me for his idiocy. To which I pointed out his stupidity. To further my point, his carburetor flooded and he couldn't get the bike started. All the while he was holding up 3 lanes of traffic. All I could do was sit back and laugh, laugh, laugh. Bonus: He lost his beanie hat, which I sold to a second hand store for $10. Next time I see him, I'll have to thank him for the 6-pack.

    Keep cool in shitty situations. Obtain the relevant information: license plate number, description of driver and vehicle, and a short summary of what happened; then, file a police report. It might not get immediate reaction from the police, but it goes on the record. I suppose video evidence is the best thing to have, but I've yet to find a quality camera that doesn't cost the better part of a new drivetrain.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    Keep cool in shitty situations. Obtain the relevant information: license plate number, description of driver and vehicle, and a short summary of what happened; then, file a police report. It might not get immediate reaction from the police, but it goes on the record.
    ^this

    rage goes nowhere but sometimes it is unavoidable

    nowadays there are either more killer freaks on the road, or we just hear more about them...but know that one time you will do this to the wrong person and you might get run over, or shot by someone who is tired of everyones sh*t, and you set them off

    just try not to get hit

    I have a similar situation all the time. One of my routes home from the trails is a 4 lane
    (2 up/2 down) and in my 2 lanes, it expands to '2 straight + 2 straight for turning right. I am going straight, so I am riding a white painted line and am in the middle of 4 lanes up. OFTEN cars going right will extend and go past me on my left and hook to the right illegally crossing the painted line...all the had to do was wait 1 second but Nooooooooo...this happens -all the friggin time-

    and it is usually a little s**t headed to the Mall you can tell by the piece of crap car and the a**hole stance they sit in


    My line I am going straight RED
    A**hole drivers will overtake me and hook around me YELLOW



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^this

    rage goes nowhere but sometimes it is unavoidable

    nowadays there are either more killer freaks on the road, or we just hear more about them...but know that one time you will do this to the wrong person and you might get run over, or shot by someone who is tired of everyones sh*t, and you set them off

    just try not to get hit

    I have a similar situation all the time. One of my routes home from the trails is a 4 lane
    (2 up/2 down) and in my 2 lanes, it expands to '2 straight + 2 straight for turning right. I am going straight, so I am riding a white painted line and am in the middle of 4 lanes up. OFTEN cars going right will extend and go past me on my left and hook to the right illegally crossing the painted line...all the had to do was wait 1 second but Nooooooooo...this happens -all the friggin time-

    and it is usually a little s**t headed to the Mall you can tell by the piece of crap car and the a**hole stance they sit in


    My line I am going straight RED
    A**hole drivers will overtake me and hook around me YELLOW


    I am riding the sidewalk in that case

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    I am riding the sidewalk in that case
    I think I am gonna start sidewalk, it really is the only safe option. I use it on the ride out sometimes, as going in the other direction is worse as far as safety. It even had a strava segment named after it that was banned as 'too dangerous'

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    I have a similar situation all the time. One of my routes home from the trails is a 4 lane
    (2 up/2 down) and in my 2 lanes, it expands to '2 straight + 2 straight for turning right. I am going straight, so I am riding a white painted line and am in the middle of 4 lanes up. OFTEN cars going right will extend and go past me on my left and hook to the right illegally crossing the painted line...all the had to do was wait 1 second but Nooooooooo...this happens -all the friggin time-

    My line I am going straight RED
    A**hole drivers will overtake me and hook around me YELLOW
    My *new* commute has one of those areas each direction. I actually will be working about a block from my previous employers office once we get our new building remodeled. I rode that route ONCE when I worked there (bike to work day last year) and a car cut me off just as you describe. Unnerving..... Not sure how I will handle my new commute. I could avoid it completely by taking a MUP that is a bit out of the way and slower.... or ride the direct route with bike lane but worry every time I come up on this section.

    I think I'm gonna start on the MUP first........

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    I think I am gonna start sidewalk, it really is the only safe option. I use it on the ride out sometimes, as going in the other direction is worse as far as safety. It even had a strava segment named after it that was banned as 'too dangerous'
    Riding on the sidewalk there is even worse than taking the lane. None of the vehicles turing right will expect or look for a fast moving bike on the sidewalk. You then have to cross two lanes of turning traffic and merge back into straight traffic that is not expecting a bike to merge. Not to mention the local laws for riding on sidewalks.

    When you hold the straight line position yourself to the center and take the lane. People will cut you off, not matter what you do, just expect it to happen. They would cut you off no matter what vehicle you use.

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    Joe, riding with a mirror ? I use mine all the time. Helps to see trouble coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    Riding on the sidewalk there is even worse than taking the lane. None of the vehicles turing right will expect or look for a fast moving bike on the sidewalk. You then have to cross two lanes of turning traffic and merge back into straight traffic that is not expecting a bike to merge. Not to mention the local laws for riding on sidewalks.

    When you hold the straight line position yourself to the center and take the lane. People will cut you off, not matter what you do, just expect it to happen. They would cut you off no matter what vehicle you use.
    This is just wrong....

    First of all you jump on the side walk before the right hand lanes begin...this removes you from all the danger....especially when the cars are going fast and jockeying for position.

    Second you ride safe and easy up to the intersection and then you can look at each car and driver as it slows to their minimum speed, or a stop at the corner...

    Third you have the option of crossing as a pedestrian, or if clear and safe jumping back on the back and riding through the intersection when safe...

    JUst a guess but cars entering the right lanes maybe doing 50 mph....they will be doing 5 to 15 MPH when turning and paying alot more attention, and you will have a much better look at the traffic situation.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    Riding on the sidewalk there is even worse than taking the lane.
    +1

    As a sometime pedestrian, I don't welcome bicyclists on the sidewalk.


    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Joe, riding with a mirror ? I use mine all the time. Helps to see trouble coming.
    +1 I have a "Spy" mirror on every bike I ride. It's indispensible in traffic, and it's handy on trail rides to see what my companions are doing...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    This is just wrong....

    First of all you jump on the side walk before the right hand lanes begin...this removes you from all the danger....especially when the cars are going fast and jockeying for position.

    Second you ride safe and easy up to the intersection and then you can look at each car and driver as it slows to their minimum speed, or a stop at the corner...

    Third you have the option of crossing as a pedestrian, or if clear and safe jumping back on the back and riding through the intersection when safe...

    JUst a guess but cars entering the right lanes maybe doing 50 mph....they will be doing 5 to 15 MPH when turning and paying alot more attention, and you will have a much better look at the traffic situation.
    To quote a great American, "Well, yeah, you know, like, that's, uh, just your opinion man."

    But, in seriousness, no vehicle (bikes included) should ever "jump on the sidewalk." Firstly, many municipalities prohibit bicycle use on sidewalks. Secondly, it's extremely dangerous to hop onto a curb from moving traffic. The fall risk of such a maneuver in front of moving traffic is more risky than taking the lane. Moving from a roadway to sidewalk and back to the roadway confuses motorist and is unpredictable. Passing a line of vehicles on the right forces all those vehicles to pass you again after the intersection. The maneuver you suggest gives the perception to motorist that cyclist are above the rules of the road. This stokes the misunderstanding between motorist and cyclist.

    If the road is dangerous pressure the city or municipality to install signage or on street warnings such as "sharrows". Contact a local bike advocacy group, or better join one, and bring the issue up to them. Often advocacy groups have contacts in local governments for just this reason.

    Don't fall into the cyclist inferiority complex. "It's a trap!" To quote more pop culture. What is cyclist inferiority?

    "Cyclist-inferiority cycling is based on the fear that the traffic system will not protect cyclists, who must, for their own safety, disobey the rules of the road." This is what drives a wedge between all road users. Cyclist disobey traffic laws and put themselves and others in dangerous positions out of a made up fear that cycling like a vehicle is more dangerous than cycling erratically and ignoring well established rules of the road.

    I recommend "Effective Cycling," by John Forester. While some of his ideas need a grain of salt, most are spot on when it comes to explaining the ideas of using a bicycle as a mode of transport.

    Here's a short except from Forester on Sheldon Brown's website: http://sheldonbrown.com/cyclist-inferiority.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    But, in seriousness, no vehicle (bikes included) should ever "jump on the sidewalk."

    Cyclist disobey traffic laws and put themselves and others in dangerous positions...
    Amen to this.

    To put more strongly what I said before: Bicyclists who disobey the rules cause accidents that involve everybody.

    On my daily commute I find myself put at risk much more (and more often) by misbehaving bicyclists than by motorists.

    We have met the enemy, and he is us.

  29. #29
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    Oh, garbage.

    We've heard exactly why this is an unsafe route, in which case it's ridiculous to tell a person that they can't act to minimize the danger to themselves.

    The first course of action should of course be to investigate possible alternative routes, but sometimes there aren't any. If that's the case, then riding the sidewalk for a block is not going to usher in the apocalypse.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Oh, garbage.

    We've heard exactly why this is an unsafe route, in which case it's ridiculous to tell a person that they can't act to minimize the danger to themselves.

    The first course of action should of course be to investigate possible alternative routes, but sometimes there aren't any. If that's the case, then riding the sidewalk for a block is not going to usher in the apocalypse.
    The problem is they're acting to maximize the danger to themselves. Same-direction collisions are the least likely to occur between car and cyclist. The overwhelming number of collisions happen at intersections, with 50/50 cyclist/motorist at fault.

    Immediately disregarding an argument is not a good way to have a discussion. In no way did I imply that his actions are wrong. I'm trying to explain why cycling in an unpredictable manner is more dangerous than cycling in a roadway as a vehicle.

    The proper action to take at this intersection is: perform a shoulder check several hundred feet before the turn lane begins; when traffic is clear, move to the center of the lane-take the lane; continue to take the lane through the intersection; give way and move to the right only when safe to do so.

    I understand that people in cars will do anything to pass anyone (cyclist or motorist) to get to the front. There is no way to control other's behavior. Taking the lane before the right-turn lanes signals to motorist the intent to go straight through the intersection and forces them to change lanes to pass. Staying to the right of a lane only encourages unsafe passing by motorist.

  31. #31
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    Sorry, but Forester's whole philosophy is based on bad stats. What number does he claim for same-direction collisions - 0.3%? That's wrong. If it was correct, then vehicular cycling might actually be the nirvana he claims it is. But the actual number seems to be at least 10% (if not closer to 20% if you include right-hooks).

    This is from a study that Toronto did (http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/co...71d60f89RCRD):

    Drive Out At Controlled Intersection 12.2%
    Motorist Overtaking 11.9%
    Motorist Opens Vehicle Door 11.9%
    Motorist Left Turn Facing Cyclist 10.7%
    Motorist Right Turn (Not at Red Light) 9.6%
    Motorist Right Turn At Red Light 7.7%
    Drive Out From Lane or Driveway 7.7%
    Ride Out At Controlled Intersection 2.8%
    Wrong Way Cyclist 2.5%
    Ride Out At Mid-block 2.2%
    Motorist Left Turn In Front Of Cyclist 2.1%
    Ride Out From Sidewalk 1.9%
    Cyclist Lost Control 1.9%
    Cyclist Left Turn In Front Of Motorist 1.8%
    Cyclist Strikes Stopped Vehicle 1.7%
    Motorist Reversing 1.6%
    Cyclist Overtaking 1.3%
    Cyclist Caught in Intersection 1.3%
    Ride Out From Lane or Driveway 1.3%
    Drive Into/Out of On-Street Parking 1.2%
    Cyclist Left Turn Facing Traffic 0.5%
    Other (Not classified) 4.3%

    That is just one study, but I've seen 10% mentioned other places as well.

    Forester has tried really hard to convince people that as long as they act as vehicles then they will almost never be hit from behind, but that is untrue. It's actually a very common type of accident - AND - if you look at that list it's one of the few that will only happen if you're on the road. So the numbers for things like righthooks and driveways are actually inflated by hobos and kids riding on the sidewalks, but the 12% that are hit while being overtaken are acting as vehicles. (sorry, Forester pushes my buttons)

    Cyclists should follow the laws, unless it puts them in danger. If it puts them in danger, then they should try to find an alternate route. If that fails, then a responsible cyclist riding on the sidewalk for one block is not a sign of the endtimes.
    Last edited by newfangled; 07-30-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    The actual number (for being hit while being overtaken) seems to be at least 10% (if not closer to 20% if you include right-hooks)....Forester has tried really hard to convince people that as long as they act as vehicles then they will almost never be hit from behind, but that is untrue. It's actually a very common type of accident - AND - if you look at that list it's one of the few that will only happen if you're on the road. So the numbers for things like righthooks and driveways are actually inflated by hobos and kids riding on the sidewalks.
    So when these 'non-vehicular' incidents like coming off sidewalks actually deflate the real overtake collisions some. You can't tell what portion of the right turns were the cyclist coming along side a stopped vehicle then the vehicle made a right and what portion were an overtaken cyclist who was hooked. But the two right truns and he overtaking is headed to the 30% range when the suspect non-vehicular incidents are removed. If we guess a bit over half are overtakers, then the 20% number seems pretty solid.

    I observed that drivers did not seem to recognize me as a cyclist soon enough to handle it properly and would approach well within a car length of my rear wheel, sometimes just feet off of me. Super Flashes did nothing to alter that in daylight. The Hi-Vis vest helped some. When I put over 200 lumens of red light on the back, then motorists slowed sooner and kept a distance where they could stop if I hit a pothole and wiped out. I read Forester and thought he maybe knew more about trees than how dangerous someone a few feet off your rear wheel feels.

  33. #33
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    Just a bit more on this subject:

    Studies from Texas, Florida and California that show "Motoroist overtaking" being the cause in 4%, 6% and 0%(?) of bicycle accidents: A Tale of Three Cities

    British stats that "in a quarter of fatal cyclist accidents, the front of the vehicle hit the rear of the bicycle": Cycling Accidents - Facts and Figures | Cycling Safety Advice and Information | Road Safety | RoSPA

    And from my neck of the woods, 13% of bike collisions are from the rear (although no fatalities in that study): http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...s2004-2008.pdf

    And I think this is important, because at least around here some cyclists actually campaign against cycling infrastructure because Forester says that we don't need it - bikelanes are completely pointless since bikes "never" get hit from behind. Obviously the stats are all over the place, but equally obviously Forester's numbers (and blind faith) are garbage.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer74 View Post
    +1 As a sometime pedestrian, I don't welcome bicyclists on the sidewalk. .
    Reminds me of a pretty lady on a beach cruiser and a cell phone and weaving all over the sidewalk. I suddenly felt the urge to knock her through a store's plate glass window but resisted. Where are those people who barge out of stores like no one is on the sidewalk when you could really use one?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Re View Post
    Hey Straz85, it was at the Common coming onto Edgell Rd. There are no good ways to get there from here. I'm more comfortable around Boston and wish I were still between Boston and the Ham. I don't commute at night or in foul weather anymore cause the roads and drivers suck that bad.

    This guy was young and had no clue. He thought cyclists didn't have the right of way. At that point I just blew up. He was young enough that I know he was at least told that in drivers ed, and/or his learners permit exam.
    Latest incident I had, the lady told me that I have to get out of the road because she is worried about being rear-ended?! O.o I nearly lost my cool...
    ISO: 22" GT Rebound frame, year 2000 model

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