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  1. #1
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    ... and if we just ... Redlight Runners

    An intersection off Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia. Kind of sad, but the commentary is hilarious!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpRfUh1Dzlw&sns=em
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  2. #2
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    very nice

  3. #3
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    Fricken Hilarious!!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  4. #4
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    Looks normal to me! Even the cops run them, here. I have almost been creamed walking in the crosswalk by a right turn on red who looked left but did not check crosswalk first, and of course, no stop.

    What I don't get here is the cyclists setting themselves up to be hooked. Turn signals are as a optional as stopping for stop signs or red light right turns, here, maybe moreso. I didn't check on the usage but I don't think all those right turns were signaled.

    It's one of the reasons I decided to blow stops. I was confusing the drivers!

  5. #5
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    I think a big part of the problem too is that it's a three-way intersection. I have one right here in my own neighborhood and it's worse because unlike the intersection in the video, it's not a one-way street. People roll it all of the time and rarely stop, and if they do they completely ignore the side street. It's a major intersection too, with a plaza, schools and old folks homes near by. It's basically suicide to pull out of the side street on a bike without waving cross traffic on first (not that they're looking at you anyway).

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...02497&t=h&z=19
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  6. #6
    weirdo
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    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing as Brian about the cyclists and the right hooks. They`re very trusting around those parts, eh?

    Gary, my mom went to a Carlmont HS somewhere in that general area. Is that any connection with the Carlmont Ln in your map?
    Recalculating....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar
    I think a big part of the problem too is that it's a three-way intersection. .... It's basically suicide to pull out of the side street on a bike without waving cross traffic on first (not that they're looking at you anyway).
    Yep. I have one 0.7 miles from home. Used to be a stop on the side street only. Twenty five years ago. Some elephantine memories round these parts. EXTREME defensive driving is called for at that intersection. Oh, and those turning into the side street seem to need more room for their sporty cars to turn that I need when I drove a dually. I saw this video, I thought of repeating it there. I have had them within inches of my left front fender and I am still 10 feet from my stop line! On the bike, they have responded by refining their turn so as not to make me a hood ornament. Better late than never. With the ANSI vest, I now have them stopping and I have to work to wave them through ahead of me. Amazing.

  8. #8
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    Gary, my mom went to a Carlmont HS somewhere in that general area. Is that any connection with the Carlmont Ln in your map?
    Yes! If you expand the map you'll see it about two blocks south of the intersection. Traffic-snarled nightmare at certain times of the day, but it's also interesting in that it is the high school from Dangerous Minds!
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  9. #9
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    Reading these threads reminds me of one of the reasons I am an expatriate. As much as I lvoe my country (I've served it for sixteen years now)... Some things are just done better here in Europe... and cycling is one of them.... The whole interaction between cyclist and motorist is so different here... They actually look for cyclists, (to avoid them NOT to hit them ;P) AND they mostly respect your right to the lane.

    Out of 15 cars passing me during the parts of my commute where I have to share a road with motorists, maybe one or two pass closer than I'm comfortable with... and sadly enough, it's usually my fellow Americans (I live in an area with a large US population).

    Maybe it's the fact that they pay so much for insurance and licensing here that they are very careful about what they do with that well-earned license... OR just the generally greater proponderance of bicycles as a real means of transport....

    Anyway... should any of you find yourselves on your way to Europe (well I guess I can really only speak for Germany, but I think the rest of Europe is like this as well) rest assured the commuting over here is MUCH different.

  10. #10
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    If you make a habit of runnig stop signs and red lights, you're eventually going to get hit. Might be tomorrow, might be next month, but eventually the math will catch up with you. How lucky do you feel?

    The number one killer of cyclists here in Arkansas over the past three years is the cyclist running a stop sign or red light... with bike ninjas coming in a distant 2nd.
    Ride a mountain bike... you will not regret it if you live.
    (with apologies to Mark Twain & The Taming of the Bicycle)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PscyclePath
    If you make a habit of runnig stop signs and red lights, you're eventually going to get hit. Might be tomorrow, might be next month, but eventually the math will catch up with you. How lucky do you feel?

    The number one killer of cyclists here in Arkansas over the past three years is the cyclist running a stop sign or red light... with bike ninjas coming in a distant 2nd.
    Love the handle.

    There's a lot of truth here. But luck is opportunity meeting skill. Getting in the habit of treating red lights and stop signs with impunity is a kind of Russian Roulette with vehicles instead of bullets. It makes you rusty at the skill of yielding to traffic and so you become unlucky.

    There is blowing through a controlled intersection at speed as seen in the video. That included apparent obliviousness to right hand turns, pedestrians hidden by cars, and last minute changes by drivers. Then there is failing to completely obey the traffic signals by not unclipping and setting a foot down.

    The ONLY lights I go through on red are AFTER I have stopped and the light does not trigger after the usual time I have recorded for the intersection when a car is present along with me to trigger it. Then ONLY when there is no cross traffic (and no officers of the law in sight, as who needs the hassle.) Indiana almost passed a law making that legal, but asked tolerance on the part of law enforcement, instead. I'll trust to the 'what he didn't see' approach because local law enforcement isn't always well informed.

    I am prepared to stop at any stop sign I see. I blew one hidden by a tree's branches on a street I did not know, but hardly my fault. Some intersections are blind, so you have to be at the balance point to see if you are clear anyway. Some in the country allow you to see more than a mile in any direction so I don't let up at all if there is no traffic and time my arrival at the intersection to avoid interference, if there is.

    A cyclist could stop for all stop signs and traffic lights and still not be paying enough attention. Don't let the cadence take your mind off traffic. Most drivers aren't out to get you, but most can screw up and act as if they are out to get you. It is a fine point that is of little concern, if you are a road pizza.

  12. #12
    weirdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Then there is failing to completely obey the traffic signals by not unclipping and setting a foot down.

    The ONLY lights I go through on red are AFTER I have stopped and the light does not trigger after the usual time I have recorded for the intersection when a car is present along with me to trigger it.
    1. Putting a foot down no matter how long your stop: Apparently a legal hiccup in some jusrisdictions that I don`t agree with. Feel free to disagree with me.

    2. You time the light cycles around your biking area? One of the two lights that I deal with on a regular basis (for a left turn arrow) always has traffic at the time of day that I usually hit it. Once in a while I trigger it or somebody pulls in behind me and triggers it for both of us. When I pull up, I take note of who currently has the green and if they get another green before I get my arrow I know I didn`t win the light lotto that day and will make my left against the red arrow the next time it`s green for people going straight through from the direction I`m comming from. The other signal on my frequent routes sometimes has traffic. If so, I treat it the same as what I just described. If there`s no traffic, it`s normally the middle of the night and I just go whenever I please.
    Recalculating....

  13. #13
    I got nothin'
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    The summer of 2008 I assisted the City of Portland in conducting bike surveys at key intersections. We were counting the number of cyclists, which direction they were headed, gender, wearing a helmet, etc. I counted for a two hour period at rush hour at four different intersections. What I found was that there were very few cyclists breaking the law. I few riders breaking the law were not people I would call cyclists, more along the lines of guys making beer runs to the market, or rolling down to pick up some green stuff (if you know what I mean). What I did witness were a lot of drivers: 1. trying to beat the light, 2. drivers making illegal turns from the wrong lane, and 3. speeding. I saw a few near misses between cars.
    I ride at ludicrous speed

  14. #14
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    1. Putting a foot down no matter how long your stop: Apparently a legal hiccup in some jusrisdictions that I don`t agree with. Feel free to disagree with me.
    This is something I've always wondered about. I come to complete stops at stop signs, but unless I have to stop for more than a couple of seconds I never put a foot down. I'm not the world's greatest track stander, but I can keep it up long enough to come to a complete stop and get underway again. Are there really some places where this is illegal?
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

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    I used to be very diligent about following the law to the letter but after a few years of commuting in and around Washington DC I now ride in a manner that I believe keeps me the safest. Since I know all of the intersections on my route fairly well, I know when it is safer to jump a light, tailgate a car through a stop, or when a green light means proceed with extreme caution.

    While I think that 99% of the drivers around here are, when not distracted by sending text messages or dialing their cell phone, courteous to cyclist - the number of close calls that I have had while obeying the law have pushed me to the point where I would rather risk a ticket than risk my life.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrogeek
    The summer of 2008 ...few riders breaking the law were not people I would call cyclists....what I did witness were a lot of drivers...trying to beat the light...making illegal turns ... and ... speeding. I saw a few near misses between cars.
    Sounds about right for here too. The two most dangerous and least legal HPV's are ridden by the young (under the age of a motorbike license) and a few whom I suspect may have lost their license to drive. Unpredictable and on the wrong side.

    rodar y rodar & Gary the No-Trash Cougar:

    Minnesota where the Habitat 500 is run, has the 'foot down' rule. The organizers 'required' that we stop at all stop lights and marking with foot down. In practice, they marked the bad intersections VERY clearly where you needed to stop or be able to stop on very short notice.

    I am not aware of any such rule for Indiana. In fact, the authorities would be so happy you stopped since 90+% of drivers don't that I don't think they'd quibble over having a foot down. I will slow and milk an impending light change and can post a few seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    2. You time the light cycles around your biking area?
    I have a pulsimeter and stop watch combo. No fancy computer or GPS. I want my average riding speed, so I need to time stops. The slowing and accelerating are still there, but I am only concerned with my relative performances, not absolute ones. So yes, I know when the light is waiting for more steel than my bike has, to be triggered. Even worse for an aluminum or carbon frame. So the these sensors ignore bikes. Iw onder it they ignore Audi's aluminum bodied car? One light is 90 seconds, the other is 120, on my regular route and no, I can't post anywhere near that long. I work hard to avoid such intersections so I have only two on magnetic control that I know this well.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    One of the two lights that I deal with on a regular basis (for a left turn arrow) always has traffic at the time of day that I usually hit it. Once in a while I trigger it or somebody pulls in behind me and triggers it for both of us. When I pull up, I take note of who currently has the green and if they get another green before I get my arrow I know I didn`t win the light lotto that day and will make my left against the red arrow the next time it`s green for people going straight through from the direction I`m comming from. The other signal on my frequent routes sometimes has traffic. If so, I treat it the same as what I just described. If there`s no traffic, it`s normally the middle of the night and I just go whenever I please..
    Yeah, essentially the same thing. Heavier traffic times bring cross traffic to trigger it for me. Lighter times, the main road is empty so why should I wait? If the powers that be want me to wait for the change of light, then it had better be the same as when a car is present. Otherwise I treat it as a malfunctioning stoplight, which in fact, it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by 29Clyde
    I used to be very diligent about following the law to the letter but after a few years of commuting in and around Washington DC I now ride in a manner that I believe keeps me the safest. ...While I think that 99% of the drivers ...are ... courteous to cyclist - the number of close calls ...have pushed me to the point where I would rather risk a ticket than risk my life.
    I agree about obvious safety over arcane traffic laws whenever the law requires unsafe practices.

    There is an Indiana law making it illegal NOT to have two hands on the handlebars of a moving bike UNLESS signaling a turn or stop. DT shifter: illegal; water bottle use while rolling: illegal; blowing one's nose on a tissue: Illegal. Stupid.

    The shoulders are not for travel here. We have one highway section (wish for more) with a 6-8' wide shoulder like the interstate has, that is now getting clear of debris near the rumble strip. (This storm should do the trick: lighter tires! Yay!) This road would be suicide in the traffic lane. Blind hills and corners and drivers at 10-20 mph over the limit. State patrol cruisers go by without stopping me (enough speeders). Everyone who has seen me or knows I ride that shoulder think that is enough danger to be getting on with.

    To avoid right lane hooks, I move off the shoulder and into the right turn lane (only one is actually marked right turn only). I do so first being aware of anyone about to turn right and needing the lane and my yield, then wary of anyone coming out of the sideroad. Once in it, I ride in the middle and anyone turning right will just have to wait, though I will drop a gear and increase cadence which shows I am aware and trying my best. If I was a farm tractor they would need to slow. Illegal? Likely. Safer? You betcha! They are slowing for the turn anyway and very likely I would have been overlooked. It makes me take special care where it is needed. Saves everyone a big hasstle, especially my potential widow.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Clyde
    I would rather risk a ticket than risk my life.
    Always better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!

  18. #18
    weirdo
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    Gary, there was a thread on rbr a year or two back concerning a guy (don`t remember who or from what state) who was so pissed about getting a warning for running a stop sign that the officer finally gave hime a ticket. Apparently, he had come to a complete stop, but didn`t touch his foot. When he got to court, the judge agreed with the officer and fined him. Seems to me he was also very indignant that the judge didn`t allow him to demonstrate a track stand in the courtroom to prove his point. I have no ide how many states require that foot down thing, but like BMc said, I think most would happy to get even an almost stop out of people. Except when the citee tries to give law lessons to the guy with the clipboard


    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy33
    Always better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!
    Jonesy, did that come from Ambrose Bierce, any chance? It sure sounds like him.
    Recalculating....

  19. #19
    LCI #1853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar
    This is something I've always wondered about. I come to complete stops at stop signs, but unless I have to stop for more than a couple of seconds I never put a foot down. I'm not the world's greatest track stander, but I can keep it up long enough to come to a complete stop and get underway again. Are there really some places where this is illegal?
    Gary:

    For the best answer to your question, check out Bob Mionske's book, Bicycling and the Law, (Bob Mionske, Bicycling and the Law: Your Rights as a Cyclist. Boulder, CO, Velo Press (2007).

    Short version: There is no statute or regulation that say in order to make a full stop, that a cyclist (or a motorist, since in nearly all cases the same rule applies to both parties) has to put a foot down to the ground. What the law says is that both have to cease forward motion, and yield right of way to any crossing traffic (for a stop sign) or wait until the light turns green (for a red light). So, there are two acts you have to worry about, first stopping, then yielding.

    The stopping part is what gets most cyclists and a whole lot of motorists upset, since they perceive that they're losing both momentum and time. So, even with (mostly) compliant drivers, you see a lot of rolling, or "California" stops, where the driver slows significantly, checks for traffic, and rolls on as soon as they determine the coast is clear. The so-called "stop-as-yield" or "Idaho Stop" law proposals seek to address this issue; a stop without a yield can still be dangerous, but a yield without a stop can be safe and often accomplishes the same purpose as the original intent of the stop sign.

    The idea behind having to put a foot down comes from local interpretation of the local stop laws, and is usually based from an 1897 court case where a rider on one of the big ordinary bikes was help up at a mulit-track railroad crossing and made what what then known as a "bicyclist's stop" -- circling around at the intersection until the train had gone by. When the end of the train cleared the intersection, the rider took off again, only to be hit and killed by another train coming from the opposite direction, and which had been hidden from his sight by the first train. The court held that the cyclist was liable for his own demise, and should have come to a complete stop at the crossing: "...The real contention of the [family] is embodied in the proposition that the circling ‘round and ‘round constituted a legal as well as a bicycler's stop . . . The law requires a full stop, not only for the sake of time, and opportunity for observation, but to secure undivided attention, and the substantial, and not merely perfunctory, performance of the duty to look and listen. Riding ‘round and ‘round in circles, large or small, is not a stop at all, either in form or substance." (Robertson v. Pennsylvania Railway, 1897) A similar case was tried in New York twenty years later, in 1916 (Cullen v. New York, Pennsylvania and New Haven R.R.), the "Robertson Rule" had become standardized: "It was the duty of the deceased [cyclist] to stop there and to dismount in order to make a stop effective for the purpose of looking and listening. The general rule requires that a bicyclist must dismount, or, at least bring his wheel to such a stop as will enable him to look up and down the tracks and listen in the manner required of a pedestrian."

    In all states, however, the state legislatures have adopted the uniform traffic code (which is silent on the specific method for stopping), so these two courts cases only give you an idea of what sort of precedent a particular judge may be thinking about should you get ticketed for not putting your foot down. Under the common law you must only stop and yield, so a trackstand is a legal stop, as long as you 1) cease forward motion, and 2) yield to any crossing traffic. And hopefully you won't fall over, but that's a whole 'nother issue ;-)
    Ride a mountain bike... you will not regret it if you live.
    (with apologies to Mark Twain & The Taming of the Bicycle)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PscyclePath
    In all states, however, the state legislatures have adopted the uniform traffic code (which is silent on the specific method for stopping), so these two courts cases only give you an idea of what sort of precedent a particular judge may be thinking about should you get ticketed for not putting your foot down. Under the common law you must only stop and yield, so a trackstand is a legal stop, as long as you 1) cease forward motion, and 2) yield to any crossing traffic. And hopefully you won't fall over, but that's a whole 'nother issue ;-)
    Having grown up and obtained a driver's permit in Ontario, Canada, I am aware of another rule regarding a stop. There you must be stationary for a two-second count. Coming to a stop is not enough. You must be stopped for a minimum length of time. You can be cited for failure to stop otherwise. A stop at the sign briefer than that and a roll forward to see better, is not a stop. They turn a blind eye at slippery intersections where getting started again IS an issue, but springtime brought out the tickets again.

    I guess the argument is that is is hard to look both ways to yield in less time than that so you have violated the yield aspect by default. If I wait more than a half second here, the vehicle to my right approaching the stop line/sign who is slow enough to stop (NOT imminent on entering the intersection and requiring a yield) will proceed as if I have ceded right of way and the guy behind is cramming on his brakes since he thought I'd launch. Two seconds risks a horn. Very unsafe but general practice.

    We call them 'Cadillac Stops' here.

  21. #21
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    PscyclePath: that's kind of what I figured but thanks for clarifying that. And yes, I know all about the "California Stop!" Also, this business of circling at intersections. I can maybe see the value of doing it on a penny farthing, but it's completely asinine otherwise. When people do it to me, I feel like I'm being circled by a shark and want to punch them in the face.

    Rodar: Interesting.... see this is at the back of my mind often at intersections and I keep wondering when I'm going to get a ticket for "not coming to a complete stop." Also, frequently I stop at intersections and cross traffic freezes, even though they have the right of way. I know most people don't expect cyclists to stop at intersections, even though I'm clearly stopped. Not sure if they're hesitating because I haven't put a foot down or if they simply freeze up and don't know what to do. Maybe the later, since I encounter motorists in other situations where they panic and slam on the brakes when they see me, even if I'm heading nowhere near their direction of travel.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar
    . Not sure if they're hesitating because I haven't put a foot down or if they simply freeze up and don't know what to do. Maybe the later, since I encounter motorists in other situations where they panic and slam on the brakes when they see me, even if I'm heading nowhere near their direction of travel.

    Just how closely do you resemble your avatar? Gun? Sociopathic stare? Blood/Pizza sauce slathered mouth?
    Last edited by BrianMc; 04-07-2010 at 06:46 AM.

  23. #23
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    Hooray for traffic circles/roundabouts. A priority road or circle would be better for that intersection. All the stop signs and lights in America cause more problems then they solve.
    Draft College Republicans

  24. #24
    weirdo
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    Gary, you might be onto something about the connection between not putting a foot down and the frozen, even with right of way, traffic. It`s frustrating, isn`t it? All I want is for you do GO, damnit! Just GO and get the hell out of the intersection so I don`t have to unclip- don`t park there in the middle staring a me cause there ain`t no way I`m going to ride in front of YOU.

    That was a bigger issue when I had PowerGrips on my commuter. Now I`ve got BMX pedals and the only hitch is having to accelerate from zero again. Most of my road bike rides (toe clips) take me through minimal stopsigns/signals, so not a big deal.
    Recalculating....

  25. #25
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    Brian, not too closely, I'm happy to say. Though I definitely feel that way sometimes.

    Rodar, I've actually had people driving through an intersection look down the cross street, see me (nearly a block away), panic and slam on the brakes. Come on! Or they get behind you and creep along at 15MPH, even though they have a clear lone of sight and plenty of room to pass. As bike friendly as the Bay Area is supposed to be, there are so many people who simply don't know what to do around a cyclist. I suppose I shouldn't be so ingracious, but sometimes overly cautious motorists are as annoying as careless ones.

    Getting OT, how did you like the Powerstraps? I'm thinking of using them if I ever get my fixed gear bike project going.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  26. #26
    weirdo
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    I`m with you 100%! They piss me off, but how can you really get mad at people for trying to be nice, just because they don`t get it?

    PowerGrips? Pretty good all in all. On the plus side, they`re compatible with any SIMILARLY SIZED shoes and they grip almost as well as clicks and cleats. On the down side, they`re a little bit tricky to get into (roughly the same as toe clips, but maybe slightly more finickier since they`re a little floppy) and they do need to be adjusted for different types of shoes. In other words, if I`d been riding with hiking boots in the winter, they wouldn`t grip my tennis shoes for a quick jaunt on a nice afternoon until they were readjusted, and if I rode to work in my tennies, then wanted to take off for something at lunch time, there`s just no way I was going to get my work boots into them, so the straps had to ride on the bottoms of the pedals- never snagged anything, but.... My toe clips will fit my hiking boots with instant adjustment, but will never fit my work boots, so that`s a no-go for work bike, but works on my road bike. I`d say the key factor as to how well PGs work for you is what kind of footwear variety you generally ride in.
    Recalculating....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar
    Brian, not too closely, I'm happy to say. Though I definitely feel that way sometimes.
    Don't we all (feel not look). One of the reasons I don't carry on the bike. Too tempting. Yes, I increased my noticeablity and now I get more of the 'green hornet' terrors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar
    Rodar, I've actually had people ...there are so many people who simply don't know what to do around a cyclist. ... but sometimes overly cautious motorists are as annoying as careless ones.
    Never met that level of incompetence. Usually it's the dually truck trying to graze me with mirror or rear fender flare.

    I've taken to waving the perma-stops through so I can roll. It is really nice that they actually stop. They don't when I'm driving. Using a vehicle for cover from those in the other directions works well too. The two of us facing and both turning left is the hardest to coordinate. It sure is better that the cell phone users who roll through on the tail of the car ahead like it was a light changed to green. A Not-too-Smart car.

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    Rodar... it's actually a common phrase among combat vets and usually refers to situations where doubts may exist in reference to .... let's just say tense situations.

    As to where it originates from, I'm not sure...

  29. #29
    LCI #1853
    Reputation: PscyclePath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar

    Rodar, I've actually had people driving through an intersection look down the cross street, see me (nearly a block away), panic and slam on the brakes. Come on! Or they get behind you and creep along at 15MPH, even though they have a clear lone of sight and plenty of room to pass. As bike friendly as the Bay Area is supposed to be, there are so many people who simply don't know what to do around a cyclist. I suppose I shouldn't be so ingracious, but sometimes overly cautious motorists are as annoying as careless ones.
    Putting your foot down is a good way to communicate with this sort of motorist... you know when you're trying to cross, say a four-lane street, and some guy in the right-hand lane stops, and waves for you to cross in front of him. Well, he may be a party to that agreement, but the other guy driving on through in the left-hand lane surely isn't... and would likely smack you if you took up the first guy's offer.

    In these sorts of cases putting your foot down clearly indicates that you're stopped and waiting for traffic to clear, and would he please take his turn so's everyone else can be on their way?

    ;-)
    Ride a mountain bike... you will not regret it if you live.
    (with apologies to Mark Twain & The Taming of the Bicycle)

  30. #30
    No-Brakes Cougar
    Reputation: Gary the No-Trash Cougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    I`m with you 100%! They piss me off, but how can you really get mad at people for trying to be nice, just because they don`t get it?
    I agree! I can't help being frustrated, but I suppose they really only are trying to be nice.

    Thanks for the PS review. I have a really high arch so I'll probably go with the large size, even though they seem to be a lot more expensive. Hopefully that will give a wider range of adjustability, too.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PscyclePath
    Putting your foot down is a good way to communicate with this sort of motorist... clearly indicates that you're stopped and waiting for traffic to clear, and would he please take his turn so's everyone else can be on their way?
    ;-)
    Yep. You just know it's a bad idea to take up the offer and if the 'wave on' won't do it, nothing says "you go first" like a foot down does and the delay is not nearly as inconvenient as a ride in an ambulance.

  32. #32
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
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    Another helpful (for me) way of getting the overly courteous driver to get along on his way again is to NOT look at him. IME, looking up the street or inspecting your shoelaces, or anything that makes it obvious to the driver that you`re stopped for as long as it takes gets things moving again.
    Recalculating....

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