One For the Retrogrouches- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 76 of 76
  1. #1
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451

    One For the Retrogrouches

    Some of you may recall about a year and a half ago (maybe more?) when I got a hold of an old Raleigh Super Course... the time has finally come to get this thing rolling.

    A friend bought it for $5 at an estate sale... didn't know it from a walmart bike. I traded him some old Yakima roof rack crossbars for it.

    I stripped it down forever ago, and the frame has been hanging in the basement laboratory. Everything else has been piled in a box in the corner.

    I wasn't sure exactly what I had, since every Raleigh Super Course you see or hear about is brown or green... they never made a blue one it seemed... but some digging led me to the Raleigh catalog archives on the Sheldon Brown page, and it turns out that in 1970, the Super Course came in an 'anniversary edition' with a different head badge and a blue paint job.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.16.38-am.jpg

    So there you have it. A 1970 Anniversary Edition Super Course in blue. The paint is pretty bad. It's got a sticker on it from an old bike shop in the LA area, and it's definitely spent some time leaning on the top tube locked to a pole. I'm very hesitant to strip it down and paint it because of the rarity of the original color. So I'm basically cleaning everything up and rebuilding.

    Unique head badge. Lugged Reynolds 531 tubing. Cool stuff. Super dee-lux long handled Huret downtube shifters. I stripped the headset down and cleaned/re-packed everything (millions of loose ball bearings)... you can feel some pitting in the races but it's functional.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.08.59-am.jpg


    Original tube?

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.09.09-am.jpg

    Nervar cottered cranks... big ol' 52 tooth in really good shape. The bottom bracket wasn't too horrible either. Stripped it all down, popped the bearings out of their plastic cage, brushed out all the gunk, re-assembled, re-packed, and it spins like a champ. They don't make 'em like they used to.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.09.19-am.jpg

    The rear D looks like the "super touring" model by Huret... it's got very cool toothless jockey wheels in red. We'll see how well it shifts when I get the cable and the rear wheel sorted out.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.09.30-am.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.09.40-am.jpg

    Went with a fake leather bar wrap to try to match the stock Brooks saddle, which is really really trashed... it's soaking up leather treatment as we speak, hopefully it's not too far gone... Re-used the faded white brake hoods and bar end plugs, just for authenticity.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.10.00-am.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.10.09-am.jpg

    Got some new pads for the stock Weinmann brakes. These brakes are surprisingly good. Very effective, at least from the feel I get in the stand.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.10.35-am.jpg

    And this is where we're at... the rear end is going to require some real love... the rim has some pitted rust issues, the cassette/hub needs to come apart and get some heavy attention, and I need to get a chain. Derailleur cables are on the way (ebay NOS Weinmann cables, weird end because of the downtube shifters).

    So far a fun project.
    I'm pretty sure it's not going to fit me, so it's probably going straight to craigslist/ebay when it's done. Anyone have any idea what it should be worth?

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-29-9.11.03-am.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  2. #2
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's not going to fit me, so it's probably going straight to craigslist/ebay when it's done. Anyone have any idea what it should be worth?
    About $25 At least that's what my neighbor got for his after parking it outside his house for half the summer.

  3. #3
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Hey that's a 400% increase from what my friend paid for it.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  4. #4
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    I was just about to buy if from him and re-list it on craigslist but didn't quite get to it on time. A friend said he had one and it was as stiff as a wet noodle. I'd think somewhere in the $125-$150 range but I've been wrong before.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Prices Vary:

    The Blue (rarity) should help some with the price $300-500 range. This one looks as mine did save that it still had the original bronze translucent bar tape when wrecked:

    1973 Raleigh Super Course Carlton Bike

  6. #6
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    ^^ Well you're way more encouraging than Bedwards

    Would be super cool to get some real $$ out of it. I'd ride it a while if it fit, but I think it's gonna be too small. I need to really measure it...not sure what the frame size is.

    Bedwards, the "stiff as a wet noodle" feeling is all part of the legendary Reynolds 531 experience. Combined with a hand-carved vintage Brooks saddle, you don't feel a bump in the road until 7 or 8 feet past it, when the vibrations have finally made their way through all of the dampening properties and storied history of the tubing and components.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  7. #7
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    Nice work, CB, I hope someone bites. If you are patient, someone who had one in the 70's will "need" it! Love the Raleigh tube!

  8. #8
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,223
    Man, I love the pierced stem
    Looks big for me, so I`m out. For some more pricing help, I`m pretty sure there`s a "What`s it worth?" subsection on BFnet`s retrogrouch zone. Do you know anybody living in an area with more than a dozen real inhabitants? Maybe you could convince somebody in Sacramento, LA, or the bay to show it for you- could be that both the other Susanville area would-be bike buyers are also the wrong size, so a tough sell in a small market like that. For a LeTour, it wouldn`t be worth the trouble to beg the favor and transport, for that bike, maybe it would.

    EDIT: request for Francophile help while we`re in the neighborhood...
    is Huret supposed to be pronounced "hyu-RAY"?
    Recalculating....

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,143
    I'm curious, what is the name of the bike shop on the sticker? I live in LA.

  10. #10
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Quote Originally Posted by GeoKrpan View Post
    I'm curious, what is the name of the bike shop on the sticker? I live in LA.
    C Hardings Westwood Cyclery, Westwood Blvd, Westwood. There is another sticker with a very clear '74 on it that looks like a bike registry sticker from UCLA.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Man, I love the pierced stem
    Looks big for me, so I`m out.
    It looks a bit small for me. I think mine was another 1/2" to 1" taller in the seat tube. Besides shipping here would be exorbitant and I would have bitten "as is" to do the clean up myself.

    I have never ridden aluminum. So have known nothing but the ride of steel. The Super Courses of the early 1970's had straight gauge 532 frame tubes. The fork and stays are not 531. My Mercian is double butted 531 forks, tubes, and stays. The Schwinn World Sport is DB 4020. Part of the noodliness is that head and seat tube angle. About 75 degrees whereas my Mercian is abut 72 and full race bikes were 70 degrees.

    BrianMc

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Request for Francophile help while we`re in the neighborhood...
    is Huret supposed to be pronounced "hyu-RAY"?
    Absolutement!

    The older Huret is a more reliable RD and FD than the plastic bodied Simplexes used on my 1972. The B15 saddle mine had appeared to be unique to the Super Course. A narrower B17 to be more comfortable in the drops.

    The stem on this 1970 was used on the 1972 Record, mine had a GB stem in the more usual L form but no recessed allen key bolt as was common later. That bolt head can catch a riders shorts in a most delicate area in a OTB.

  12. #12
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    27,634
    don't need to be a retrogrouch to appreciate a beautiful classic bike

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,143
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    C Hardings Westwood Cyclery, Westwood Blvd, Westwood. There is another sticker with a very clear '74 on it that looks like a bike registry sticker from UCLA.
    Thanks, I have a made in France Motobecane from a long gone shop in Santa Monica, Bicycleville.

  14. #14
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    BrianMc you're a wealth of knowledge!

    Center BB to center top tube (along seat post) is 23". Unscientific tape measure eyeball ETT is 21.5". My Ogre has an ETT in the 24" range, so this is definitely short for me...especially with that stem. My BB to seat top measurement is around 31.5... Doubt I could achieve that with this weird little seat post

    The seat is stamped "champion narrow" B15.

    Can't get an accurate ETT measurement until I can put it on the ground for leveling purposes... Need a rear wheel for that. But 21.5" is close.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    My Mercian is a 24" ST and the Schwinn a 25" which with 37 mm tires has a stand over of 34 and is a big as I can straddle feet on the ground in cycling shoes. So I can rest knowing it is too small for me.

    I had mine for 9 years until it was totaled. Swapped in Mavic/Campy Record sew-up rims and the Sugino Crank now on the Schwinn, swapped out the rims for clincher when my racing days were over. It cost me $200 Canadian new in 1972. Exchange was 0.99 US per Canadian Dollar. So you might get over 2 X what it cost new. Commuted to campus with it for two degrees and part of a third. A lot of them get converted to fixies/SS.

  16. #16
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    ^^ I have seen a lot of fixed/SS conversions.... seemed a shame to do when this is so complete. If I only had the frame, I can totally see the attraction.


    Getting after the rear end a bit... first time gutting an old school freewheel... hope I kept track of all of those (maybe 100?) ball bearings in this bad boy. The cassette is the freehub is the freewheel...

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-31-1.43.31-pm.jpg

    The rear hub felt really bad... I was worried I was going to find some real destruction in there... overall not horrible. Races seem good, and some carb cleaner revealed some amazingly shiny chromoly ball bearings. On closer inspection, the bearings were really pitted and in bad shape despite their shine. I'm replacing them with some I have laying around from a wheel that is 4 decades newer... the replacements don't have that vintage shine though

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-31-1.43.43-pm.jpg

    Assuming I can get the freewheel back together, I have high hopes for the rear end. The rim shined up OK with some rust remover gel... not great, but passable from a distance. The whole bike will kind of have a Monet thing going on... it'll look great from a distance, but when you get close it will start to get a little nasty

    I was a bit worried about one sticky jockey wheel also, but on closer inspection it turns out that they are serviceable ball bearing jockey wheels. Crazy. Quick rebuild/clean and some new grease and they spin "like butta"

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-31-1.43.58-pm.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-31-1.44.10-pm.jpg

    Weight was apparently not a big concern with these little jockey wheels. Or maybe shaving the teeth off saved a gram or so, so packing them with grease and bearings with a steel race was no big deal....

    On we go... just gotta remember where all this stuff goes...

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2015-12-31-1.43.18-pm.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  17. #17
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    ^^

    On we go... just gotta remember where all this stuff goes...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-12-31 at 1.43.18 PM.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	124.2 KB 
ID:	1039221
    Parts is parts! Good luck CB!

  18. #18
    guy
    Reputation: Kleebs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    ...I have high hopes for the rear end.
    Ahh so you're an ass man then.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    So how do those wheels actually work? Are they u-shaped, so the chain rides inside them?

    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-12-31 at 1.44.10 PM.jpg 
Views:	48 
Size:	73.2 KB 
ID:	1039220
    On another note, did 70s bike-boom cyclists really run pre-aero levers pointing up at the sky like that? I thought that was 2000s-era-homeless-guy-styling.

  20. #20
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    ^^ Yeah, for a catalog bike set-up, that seems pretty crazy! You gotta really want to stop to get a hold of those bad boys.


    The Jockey wheels appear to allow the chain to ride over them... the red plastic is narrower than the chain so the rollers on the chain will contact it, but the plates won't.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  21. #21
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post

    On another note, did 70s bike-boom cyclists really run pre-aero levers pointing up at the sky like that? I thought that was 2000s-era-homeless-guy-styling.
    I say yes, because:
    a) That position was 100% comfy for the 99% of the time you didn't need your brakes, and;
    b) It was the 70's, you really didn't have to stop pretty much anything, anywhere.

  22. #22
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Assuming I can get the freewheel back together, I have high hopes for the rear end.
    Assuming you can't, you can get a brand spanking new one for <$15
    Robot Check

    Of course that would cut into your profit on a $25 bike.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Assuming I can get the freewheel back together, I have high hopes for the rear end.
    See how it goes. I have one on a bike that is not being used and a seven on the shelf can be swapped in for it. Shipping would be about $5 if it will fit the USPS package.


    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    On another note, did 70s bike-boom cyclists really run pre-aero levers pointing up at the sky like that? I thought that was 2000s-era-homeless-guy-styling.
    There were two general ways that the brakes were mounted. The most prevalent is as shown in the pictures. This was common for hooded levers where the rider's hands might be on the hoods.

    One For the Retrogrouches-holdsworth1-613.jpg


    The second was about mid bend and the lower part of the bars would be level in that case. The unhooded cheaper levers were often mounted this way as no one would want to ride gripping cold aluminum long.

    One For the Retrogrouches-holdsworthjulianrightside.jpg


    Name:  fulllh_m.jpg
Views: 390
Size:  30.9 KB

    Later on, mid-level bikes these would have "suicide" levers allowing brake application from the top of the bar.

    One For the Retrogrouches-otsworld1.jpg

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,605
    Thanks for the memories. It looks like a lot of the bikes and parts I used to fiddle with as a kid in the 70's.
    Back then I could find any old junk bike and use the parts on any other, since everything was standardized sizes. Uh oh, I'm sounding like a retrogrouch!

    Anyone else use this book to learn about working on bikes?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc View Post
    Later on, mid-level bikes these would have "suicide" levers allowing brake application from the top of the bar.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	otsworld1.jpg 
Views:	93 
Size:	133.4 KB 
ID:	1040645
    Yeah, it's not so much the lever placement which is pretty similar to your last photo, as the placement + bar angle. They don't look like they have hoods...although maybe they do? I thought the was bare metal, but maybe it like cc's white hoods. (talking about someone's white hoods is a little strange)

    Mostly, it just seems like a weird setup to pick for an ad.

  26. #26
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    smilinsteve, I do believe my copy is still kicking around here .

    As for the brake lever locale, perhaps that facilitated the flipped bar positioning that was the rage for a while back in the day (rotate bars backwards about 180 degrees so the levers are facing the rider).

    BrianMc, that white Peugeot was stolen from me over 20 years ago - please return it!

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Yeah, it's not so much the lever placement which is pretty similar to your last photo, as the placement + bar angle. They don't look like they have hoods...although maybe they do? I thought the was bare metal, but maybe it like cc's white hoods. (talking about someone's white hoods is a little strange)
    Yes those are aluminum. Exactly what I removed from my World Sport. Todays levers make these feel so clunky and that aluminum is not comfortable. The suicide levers move a bit far forward if you move the levers further forward and down.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    smilinsteve, I do believe my copy is still kicking around here .

    As for the brake lever locale, perhaps that facilitated the flipped bar positioning that was the rage for a while back in the day (rotate bars backwards about 180 degrees so the levers are facing the rider).

    BrianMc, that white Peugeot was stolen from me over 20 years ago - please return it!
    I used the backward bar trick before I got a new bar and levers for the errand bike:



    As for the Peugeot, google for Peugeot bike pictures and track down the current owner! I have a White Mixte frame one that is a winter project to become the new errand bike.

  29. #29
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    New Old Stock. Slowest eBay shipping ever, but they had to come all the way from like 1974 so what are you gonna do.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-11-9.46.14-am.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  30. #30
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912

  31. #31
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    No. No I did not know that

    These have that vintage flair though. They will totally up the resale value.

    I got me a nice head cold this weekend... zero progress in the basement laboratory. Seems like every spare moment is spent chopping firewood lately. I think I have all the pieces of the puzzle now though with these cables, so I'm a bit more motivated to work on it knowing that I could potentially finish it in another work session or two.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  32. #32
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    I think I have all the pieces of the puzzle now though with these cables, so I'm a bit more motivated to work on it knowing that I could potentially finish it in another work session or two.
    Session or Season?

    I bought a vintage Takara for $25 that seemed big enough that I could ride it. It's been hanging in the garage for about a year and a half. I did buy a pair of 27" tires for it since the 500 half used tires I have lying around are all 700c. Anyway, that was about 6 months ago so I am making progress. I still have to see if I can get the cottered crank tightened up some. It is very low on the list.

  33. #33
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    You can't rush art.





    I settled for the tiniest bit of play in the cottered crank BB, after messing with it for a while... there's a lock-ring arrangement that you tighten down after you tighten down the bearing race, so if you put the race where you want it, you inevitably tighten it more when tightening the lock ring, so you get it way too tight. So you have to guesstimate how far to back off the threaded bearing race piece, and then tighten the lock ring, in the hopes that you get it *just right* when the lock ring is tight. Margin of error is approximately .00001mm.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  34. #34
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    You've obviously looked at it much closer than I have. I've got to the "That's a little loose" stage. I did read that you can't just tighten the nut on the cotter but had to bash them with a hammer (or something like that).

  35. #35
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Yes for removing or setting the cotter pin you need to apply some force... I was advised against the hammer method in favor of the more controlled method... I put a too-big socket over one end of the cotter pin and pushed it out with a vice. this avoids potentially flaring the end when you smack it with a hammer. For re-setting it, I just put some grease on it and smacked it with a rubber hammer (putting it in is much easier than taking it out.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  36. #36
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    That's good ad"vise"(That was bad). I'll try it with a big C clamp. Almost makes me want to work on the bike. Maybe next summer. Finishing the tubeless setup on the new fatty is next on the list and a much higher priority now.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    The cottered cranks and the hard to adjust BB did not make me overly upset when one of the spider bolts fell out, bending the chainwheels. The Sugino alloy replacement dropped a pound or more of weight. But near-original condition demands the steel crankset. Sometime in the mid-seventies the Super Course came with alloy cranks.

  38. #38
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    All that extra weight is probably why the bearing races and everything are in such good shape after all these years. Steel is real...heavy. Super simple design, and each part weighs like 4 pounds.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Yep. The change to an Alloy crankset + Campagnolo Record/Mavic rims DB spokes and sew up silk tires dropped the weight and rotational mass quite a bit. Suntour Cyclone FD & RD replaced the unreliable Simplex (after two RD replacements, your Huret parts are better). My Super Course was no Holdsworth, about 22 pounds if I remember right, but I kept up with traffic running to campus and back home. That steel seat post and the really thick-walled GB bars and the non double butted Reynolds 531 is likely about 2 pounds over the lightest race bikes of that era.

  40. #40
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,223
    My only experience with cottered cranks (very brief) didn`t give me any trouble, but I can see how they might have gotten on my bad side pretty easily. What`s up with the "hard to adjust BB"? Is it just a plain old loose ball and locknut thing or some kind of Raleigh-specific PITA? Or maybe in pre-square days they were different from square taper spindles? I`ve dealt with the square flavor of Suntour and Shimano spindle-and-ring BBS quite a bit, never had any problems adjusting them.
    Recalculating....

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    ^^ CB explained it well. The lock ring loaded the bearings so you had to guess on a slightly looser than optimal bearing/cup/cone adjustment then tighten the lock nut and see if that was OK. Trial and mostly error. The Square Taper Sugino was also loose bearings but you could set it and lock it without the locking changing the adjustment. I never looked at the reason for the difference. The Campagnolo BB has sealed bearings and is so easy to install and maintain in comparison.

  42. #42
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    That sounds like all the old loose cup and cone bearing systems. I don't think that part is unique to cottered cranks or Raleigh. All my old square tapers are the same. I just leave them a little sloppy, hold the inner cup with a pin spanner and crank the lockring down with a pair of channel locks (Never have got the right tool for that, SFSG on bikes that are 20+ years old)

  43. #43
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,223
    Just like wheel bearings. You two must have worn yourselves out with the cotter pins if the BB cups gave you hell!
    Recalculating....

  44. #44
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    The cone is a part of the "axle" of the BB, and then the outer BB housing that threads into the frame is actually the cup... so on the drive side you just thread that cup down all the way nice and tight, so when you tighten the non-drive side, you are pushing that cup into the bearings that are pushing the axle into the drive side bearings, which are pushing on the cup on the drive side, so you're tightening both sides when you thread the non-drive side. Then there's a lock ring that threads down onto that non-drive side cup... so when you tighten the lock ring, you wind up overtightening the cup, unless you back it off some before you tighten the lock ring. I got it pretty good...just the tiniest bit of play, and it spins freely when you give the cranks a whirl.

    edit: and yes, it's basically loose bearings, except the big ol' bearings are snapped into a plastic cage... maybe 9 bearings on each side? I popped them out of the cage to clean it all up, and then popped them back in to re-assemble. You could maybe get away without the cage and be fine, but you might want more bearings if you did that.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  45. #45
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Quote Originally Posted by bedwards1000 View Post
    ... and crank the lockring down with a pair of channel locks (Never have got the right tool for that...
    This lockring has notches that made the flathead screwdriver and rubber hammer method effective for both removal and installationj I'm sure there's a tool just for it, but I'm not opening a vintage section in the basement laboratory just yet
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  46. #46
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    ....and we have a rear wheel! Whoop! No real drama with all those bearings staying in place while I wrestled with getting the freewheel settled down over those little flippy parts on the hub. Patience and a little twist while everything is perfectly lined up does the trick... everything seems to be working good, and the hub spins 10,000 times better than it did.

    Still to do: Derailleur cables and housings, some brake adjustment, and a chain.... getting there. And I need to release the seat from it's zip-tie shaping prison and see if that helped.

    The little pinch bolts that hold the brake cables at the brake are possibly not up to the task anymore... I can't seem to get them tight enough to not slip. Need to look at options there.

    To eBay! And beyond!

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-20-1.29.07-pm.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  47. #47
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,223
    Coming along! I can`t see it now, but didn`t I read somewhere that you did a freewheel surgery on the rear wheel that you just pronounced done? If you did and it survived, I have to re-cred you for the teasing I handed out over adjusting the BB. I`ve never been brave enough to disect a freewheel or the ratcheting part of a freehub. Good job, Dude!
    Recalculating....

  48. #48
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    The little pinch bolts that hold the brake cables at the brake are possibly not up to the task anymore... I can't seem to get them tight enough to not slip. Need to look at options there.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2016-01-20 at 1.29.07 PM.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	149.3 KB 
ID:	1044176
    Washer over the bolt that has the hole through it, drilled if necessary?

  49. #49
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    ^^ that could work. I need to look at it... just can't get enough tension on the thing... it's age combined with the design make it weird. The bolt with the hole threads into the part that 'hooks' onto the wire that pulls both sides of the brake... there's no real way to hold that little hook part secure while you thread the bolt down, so you're threading with a wrench into a floppy dangle thing that you can't hold secure enough to get the bolt tight. It probably worked marginally ok when it was all new, but the threads are pretty bad now. I was thinking drill it out and use a nut instead of the existing threads, so you could hold the other side with a wrench. That or get a new wire-grabbing hook part from a newer bike somewhere. Isn't that a fairly common design in cyclocross, etc?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  50. #50
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Coming along! I can`t see it now, but didn`t I read somewhere that you did a freewheel surgery on the rear wheel that you just pronounced done? If you did and it survived, I have to re-cred you for the teasing I handed out over adjusting the BB. I`ve never been brave enough to disect a freewheel or the ratcheting part of a freehub. Good job, Dude!

    I would surprise myself with how awesome I am if I didn't already know

    it wasn't that bad... tons of bearings, and you're sort of racing the clock when you put it back together, because one set of about 50 little bearings has to be upside down hanging in the grease while you get everything lined up... so you have to be fast and smooth and not knock things around when you're getting it back over the little ratchet-teeth things, or you drop bearings and you have to start over. Sheldon Brown's page says there used to be a tool for holding those little teeth in place for re-assembly, but they're all but impossible to find anymore. He suggests putting a rubber band around them to hold them down, with a piece of string on it so you can pull the rubber band out before you fully install the freewheel. I can see how that would work after doing it, but it wasn't necessary. I was able to coax the little teeth things into place by spinning the freewheel slightly while settling it down over the hub. got it on the 2nd or 3rd try after dropping a few bearings the first time.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  51. #51
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    ^^ that could work. I need to look at it... just can't get enough tension on the thing... it's age combined with the design make it weird. The bolt with the hole threads into the part that 'hooks' onto the wire that pulls both sides of the brake... there's no real way to hold that little hook part secure while you thread the bolt down, so you're threading with a wrench into a floppy dangle thing that you can't hold secure enough to get the bolt tight. It probably worked marginally ok when it was all new, but the threads are pretty bad now. I was thinking drill it out and use a nut instead of the existing threads, so you could hold the other side with a wrench. That or get a new wire-grabbing hook part from a newer bike somewhere. Isn't that a fairly common design in cyclocross, etc?
    Center pull brakes? Yes, it's common and there are better versions of it. Cyclocross & MTBs before disk brakes. I've got one very similar to this on my crosscheck. Works well. Aluminum Alloy Bicycle Triangle Brake Cable Hanger U Brake Cantilever Black | eBay Or you could get a new one. Shimano Straddle Cantilever Brake Cable Hangers | eBay
    Or you could try the washer. The washer kinks the cable slightly around the hole in the bolt to give it a place to grab.

  52. #52
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    Brake Yoke. That's what you want. <$5 with free shipping.
    http://www.amazon.com/BRAKE-PART-YOK...rds=brake+yoke

  53. #53
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    ^^ perfect. Yeah all the aftermarket ones I'm seeing have a nut so you can actually get two wrenches on there and get it tight. Weird design having it thread directly into the hanger. Washer totally makes sense also, I'll give that a shot first.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  54. #54
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,912
    I think I have or have had one of those nutless jobs. The only thing that keeps the shaft from spinning is the cable going through it. Hold the whole thing with pliers.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    28
    Glad you decided not to re-paint..... original looks really cool.

  56. #56
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    OK got the brakes I think somewhat tight by figuring out exactly where I wanted the cable grabbed, taking the center pull cable out, and getting pliers and a wrench on the pinch bolt and cranking away. Then of course I had to take a brake pad off to squish them tight enough to get the center pull cable back in place but they seem to be working. I reefed on the levers pretty good and no slippage.

    Derailleur cables happening now... could be taking a shakedown ride this weekend if the rain and snow lets up.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-22-5.16.42-pm.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-22-5.16.23-pm.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-22-5.15.48-pm.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  57. #57
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    ^^Shiny! Nice work.

  58. #58
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    OK, she's rideable.

    gratuitous stem shot for Rodar:

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-22-7.59.20-pm.jpg


    The saddle is still rough... shape is good, leather is bad... came out really dark also. But it's way better than it was.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-22-7.59.41-pm.jpg


    Strange bedfellows

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-22-7.59.58-pm.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  59. #59
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,223
    Tasty. If you move the stem and the DT shifters over to your fatty, it might look just as nice
    New rubber too? Looks like Paselas.
    Recalculating....

  60. #60
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Cheap Ching Shin or something tires. Like 8 bucks on amazon.

    Got the dynamo headlight un-bent and cleaned up, a little tri-flow on all the moving parts and it works like a champ.

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-23-9.29.27-am.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    Pretty bike, but that is one ugly stem.

  62. #62
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Pretty bike, but that is one ugly stem.
    Have to agree, like some old plumbing gone bad! (We are grouchy, after all.)

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    The stem is uglier if you OTB and that bolt head catches the crotch of your pants. I still have the GB post from the my SuperCourse. The only bit of it that remains. Still has the exposed hex head bolt rather than the more recent countersunk allen key bolt of a Nitto or Cinelli:

    Name:  s-l225.jpg
Views: 109
Size:  6.0 KB

  64. #64
    weirdo
    Reputation: rodar y rodar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6,223
    Newf and Xplorer, if you guys make me cry, I`m going to chalk dirty words on the sidewalk in front of your houses and/or workplaces.
    Recalculating....

  65. #65
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Ugly or not, it's not something you replace on a bike this original
    It's growing on me... I wish it would grow to about 120mm because that's what it would take for this bike to fit me.

    Rain and spitting snow all weekend, so I haven't actually ridden it, but the rain let up just in time for golden hour one day and I got a couple eBay shots:

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-25-8.25.31-am.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-25-8.25.21-am.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-25-8.25.11-am.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-25-8.25.00-am.jpg

    One For the Retrogrouches-screen-shot-2016-01-25-8.24.23-am.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    I hadn't noticed the gigantic shift levers before, but those are cool.

    And yeah, you definitely have to keep the ugly faucet-stem.

  67. #67
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    These downtube shifters are NOT MESSING AROUND. You could operate these things even if you didn't have hands.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  68. #68
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    Great pix CB!

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    So I'm locking my bike up in the condo's bikerack after work today, and look what I've been parking next to for years:

    One For the Retrogrouches-img_20160125_175501-01.jpg

    Complete with cool shifters, and ugly stem (although this ugly stem has a white plug in the faucet end for some reason)

  70. #70
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    HaHA!! That's crazy!! I'm gonna need to see the headbadge on that bad boy. That's the normal cafe' brown color... it was that or green forever, except for the one year they made blue also.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    It's super dusty, but I did take a quick look and I thought it might actually be a sticker? Any chance of that? I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

  72. #72
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Mine is riveted on there... but I've been told it's a unique one because of the anniversary thing... I don't think they ever used stickers though. Maybe the original was yanked off at some point.

    That is just hilarous. You probably hate the stem because of some subconscious thing seeing that dirty one every single day. Better parking spot than you maybe?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    ^ it's just bungied to the rack, so I could move it if I wanted the spot. I didn't see any telltake rivet bumps under all the dust, but I'll take a closer look.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    Guess I wasn't paying much attention last night, because under all that dust there was indeed a typical, riveted Raleigh headbadge.

    One For the Retrogrouches-img_20160126_074729-01.jpg

    Raleigh was one of the few big companies that actually had a factory in Canada, so it is possible that this has some weirdo stuff going on.

  75. #75
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,451
    Cool. Yeah that's the "Normal" headbadge I think... Brian?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Guess I wasn't paying much attention last night, because under all that dust there was indeed a typical, riveted Raleigh headbadge.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20160126_074729-01.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	125.2 KB 
ID:	1045544

    Raleigh was one of the few big companies that actually had a factory in Canada, so it is possible that this has some weirdo stuff going on.
    That is the normal Raleigh head badge of the era. The color is the same as mine was. Those Vertex lugs are gorgeous at that price level. All the Super Courses to my knowledge were built in the Carleton factory with the International and Competition models.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.