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  1. #1
    weirdo
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    My next bike?

    I`m going to mispost this here, partly cause it`s where I feel at home, and partly cause "the family" has such an amazingly broad collective knowledge of just about every bike type under the sun. I want another bike, and not sure which way I should go with it. I do have a few specific questions, but mostly just spitting it out to clear my own mind see what kind of comments come up.

    The main purpose of "+1" will be for long and lightly loaded road rides (brevets and unofficial solo rides similar in nature). No racing, or even trying to hang with fast groups, but since I`m awfully slow anyway, any help I can get will be appreciated- especially since the best riding around here has heavy climbing. I need a smooth ride and mellow handling, need to be able to mount or remove fenders as needed, need one light duty rack (either front or rear will work), and need good lighting. The bike I use for that kind of ride now is my commuter/tourer, which is an early 90s rigid mtb with cyclocross bars, bar end shifters, and mtb drivetrain. Depending on tires, it weighs in a little over or a little under 30 pounds because of all the crap I have permanenty bolted on, and that same crap is big time aero drag.

    The cheapest option I see is to dig up another rigid mtb for similar setup, but think light and keep the crap removeable. I already have wheels and a whole cockpit, so after buying whatever drivetrain stuff I need, and all that piddly stuff that seems to add up so fast, I should be able to pull it off for $200 to $300 plus the cost of the frame. But would I be able to improve on what I have now enough to be worthwhile? Am I dreaming to think I can keep it under 25#? A high end frame will be ligher than mine, could I also likely get cushier that way, or would it probably be stiffer? Will it be sleeker enough to notice a difference with one less rack, narrow fenders, aero brake levers (cable out the top routing on my commuter), and 2cm narrower bars?

    Wheel size is a huge dilema for me. On one side I`m nearly determined to stay with 26s because I already have good wheels (including dyno, which I`ll almost surely have to buy or build if I go 700) and tires, and I like the interchangeability. On the other side, most of the bikes ready made for the kind of riding I`m targeting are based on 622 wheels, which I`ve had less than stellar experience with. The only big wheeled bike I`ve had as an adult was a gorgeous Bridgestone light tourer (91 RB-T). For some reason that I was never able to put my finger on, while I loved looking at the bike, when I actually rode it, we didn`t seem to click- after about two hours, I just didn`t feel like riding any more. Also had a few 27-inchers in high school, but never put any of them to serious use, and my memories of them are pretty vague anyway. I will say that I felt faster on the Bridgestone than on any other bike. Don`t know though how much was perception, how much was due to the svelte 25 pound weight, or how much for the 700 x 32 tries. Since it had no lights, I was rarely able to ride it to work, which is the only route I do often enough for a good time comparison. Hmm... the infamous 26 VS 700 debate battling it out once again.

    And if I DO buy a bike on a 700c platform, that doesn`t guarantee its going to save me any weight. In fact, it might add a little. Or not? Compared to a rigid mtb frame, I mean? Likely a comfier, more compliant frame? Stiffness/flex has never been an issue for me.

    And more questions pop up with the 700c options, whereas it`s pretty cut-and-dry if I build another minicrosser. For a 700 bike, look for a Casseroll or Smoothie ES and be limited to 28 or 32mm tires if I want a fender option? I hate to be stuck on pavement, but that IS the main diet I have planned for "+1". I could still roll my Schwinn for the rough stuff, and maybe 28 or 32 x 700 would be enough to keep me happy on fire roads anyway? (wish I had tried that with the Bridgestone, just to know) I pinch flat my fu-fu 26 tires left and right when I hit the rough stuff. Honestly, I think a cushy roadie my best bet, though. Any other models similar to the ones I just mentioned, or are those oddballs? Atlantis, Gunnar Sport, IF, and other botique brands are out of my budget. There don`t seem to be a whole lot of Casserolls or ESs on the used market, but I have the feeling that a lot more similar stock are out there if I look back 20 or 30 years- just don`t know what models to watch for. Others (Jamis Aurora, LHT, Novara Randonee...) look like they catch most of the requirements, but still run up to 30# or more by the time they`re outfitted. Maybe the Soma and the Salsa wouldn`t do any better? I know, parts play a bigger role in bike weight than the frame does, but unless I go "minicross" again, I`ll be buying the whole thing as a single package (used), and I don`t think I`ll find one of those heavier bikes pre-lightened.

    Or... cross bike? Fat friendly and light, but would that be as stiff and uncompromising as an old mtb frame? Quicker, more race oriented handling than I`m looking for? They also invariably come with double cranks- I need a triple, so would have to replace cranks, FD, and probably shifters after buying. Or maybe I could get away with a compact + mtb cassette if I cut the weight way down? Not holding my breath on that one! The pseudo-crossers (Crosscheck, Volpe, Tricross...) sometimes have triples, and I`m guessing they`d be more relaxed and compiant than bikes actually designed for the sport, but then doesn`t the weight start creeping up again?

    On the bright side, I have patience, and am willing to wait it out and watch Craigslist for several months looking for a killer deal. I`d love to keep it cheap of course, but am willing to go up to about 1500 if a bike looks like a good value. Anything over about 600 though would have to be an exceptionally good buy so that I could be assured of getting my investment back out of if it turned out that we weren`t soul mates.
    Last edited by rodar y rodar; 10-26-2012 at 09:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    I will have to review your thoughts more carefully later, but for some reason I thought of you when I saw the Surly Krampus. Not light though, 29" x 3" tires. New Surly Krampus (Not a 29er, Not a Fat Bike – 29+) | Mountain Bike Review

  3. #3
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    There are some pretty good sights around where people have bought roadbikes (used or not) with 700c wheels and converted them to 650b. This would mean there would be room to put on a bigger tyre. I think Sheldon Brown talks about this and some of the advantages in depth.

  4. #4
    Wierdo
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    Rodar - clearly you need a titanium cross bike!

  5. #5
    weirdo
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    Muchos thankyous to everybody who put up with that drivel and read all the way through that looong list of demands and rambling thoughts, more thankyous to Xplorer, Dummyrunner, and Woodway for taking additional time to offer suggestions.

    Somehow, I was serious when I wrote it last night. Today, I read it over again and it almost makes me puke. I`ve seen that thread countless times before and I already know the answers! Here`s what it boils down to (could have saved us all some time):

    1. I want a shiny new bike.
    2. It has to be fast and light because I`m a pansy who wants instant gratification and I`m not willing to spend a few years training before I can be Lance.
    3. Bike must do EVERYTHING well, no compromises anywhere.
    4. Must be cheap.
    5. I`m allergic to red paint. Next to red, would screaming yellow make me faster, or sleek white?

    Okay, so since I can`t really retract that BS that I already wrote, I`m going with the next best alternative. An immediate dose of STFU, followed by remedial HTFU, while riding what I already have. Hell, I`m one up on most of the people who post that crap in that my current heavy and no-longer-shiny bike fits me like a dream and is supremely comfortable! While I`m at it (if I can behave myself), I`ll keep watching CL for anything reasonaly close to my dream bike at a price that will let me resell later, after enough hours of saddle time to draw my own conclusions. Oh, and does anybody know how to get a prescription for EPO?

  6. #6
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    Just my .02...

    Being that you are planning to use this bike for long road rides, it would make sense to favor 700c over 26". But if you are trying to use parts that you already have, that would be a good reason to go in a different direction. Craiglist may end up being the cheapest route, but it may time time to find something that meets your specifications. It is always fun to build a bike, but it isn't always the most cost effective (but you can make sure that you get exactly what you want).
    ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → В А

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    ...
    1. I want a shiny new bike.
    2. It has to be fast and light because I`m a pansy who wants instant gratification and I`m not willing to spend a few years training before I can be Lance.
    3. Bike must do EVERYTHING well, no compromises anywhere.
    4. Must be cheap.
    5. I`m allergic to red paint. Next to red, would screaming yellow make me faster, or sleek white?
    hahaha Too bad about the red paint, I have an old but shiny red Bianchi Veloce with a triple gathering dust in the basement. Good luck with the CL browsing.

  8. #8
    Teen Wolf
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    i vote you go cross bike.

    there are some very versatile builds that are mighty fast on the road. i do 90% of my commutes on a cross bike.

  9. #9
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    A cross frame with discs would allow wider 650B or 700C wheel sets. The fatter 650B for routes off pavement. Unfortunately the recent change in rules means that there is not a big supply of them. Maybe someone went racing with a relatively cheap one and wants to upgrade selling a bike like this. Discs will up the weight, but add that wheel flexibility.

    BrianMc

  10. #10
    weirdo
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    In addition to my allergy to red paint, I forgot to mention allergies to disc brakes on bicycles, BB-crank interfaces that do not rhyme with "bear raper", BB shells that are not ISO threaded, non-adjustable wheelbearings, and wheel sizes other than 406, 559, or 622. I think I can handle threadless headsets if I stay on my meds.
    Sounds kinda grouchy, no? Hey, I love indexed shifting (as long as it doesn`t get above 8, maybe 9 clicks) and I finally came to accept cartridge BBs, so I`m modernizing!

    Yeah, somewhere along the line I definitely should try a cross bike or two. Brian, I think you have it backwards about that rule change and disc brakes. Up until a few years ago, they were verboten for sanctioned C-X events, but since the rules changed, it looks like NON-disc models are disappearing from the higher level mtb hubs.

    Oh, and did everybody else already catch that Big S now "goes to eleven"? I guess it happened earlier this year, and I just how found out. Sigh...

    And no suggestions for the EPO?
    Last edited by rodar y rodar; 10-27-2012 at 08:40 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    1. I want a shiny new bike.
    2. It has to be fast and light because I`m a pansy who wants instant gratification and I`m not willing to spend a few years training before I can be Lance.
    3. Bike must do EVERYTHING well, no compromises anywhere.
    4. Must be cheap.
    5. I`m allergic to red paint. Next to red, would screaming yellow make me faster, or sleek white?
    You say that like it's a bad thing , if not red then how about a 36" in hot pink? maybe with purple polka dots?
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

  12. #12
    Wierdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    And no suggestions for the EPO?
    Skip the prescription and call Lance. Now that he has been banned from everything he may have some extra to sell.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    In addition to my allergy to red paint, I forgot to mention allergies to disc brakes on bicycles,
    *** They have their place. You don't have as much road hugging, heat-on-long-steep- downgrades weight as I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    BB-crank interfaces that do not rhyme with "bear raper",
    BB shells that are not ISO threaded, I finally came to accept cartridge BBs, so I`m modernizing!
    *** I have come to like the cartridge BB's, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    non-adjustable wheelbearings,
    *** With you in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    and wheel sizes other than 406, 559, or 622.
    *** Here I thought you were showing your tolerance to wheel sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    I think I can handle threadless headsets if I stay on my meds.
    *** I can with the steerer tube kept long. Which will likely mean a new fork for an existing bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Sounds kinda grouchy, no? Hey, I love indexed shifting (as long as it doesn`t get above 8, maybe 9 clicks).
    *** I am still getting used to it on10 (my only non friction system) other than the adjusting as the cables stretch in, I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Yeah, somewhere along the line I definitely should try a cross bike or two. Brian, I think you have it backwards about that rule change and disc brakes. Up until a few years ago, they were verboten for sanctioned C-X events, but since the rules changed, it looks like NON-disc models are disappearing from the higher level mtb hubs.
    *** No, I figured that, but I thought maybe some getting into it may have bought a more entry level one or one that they upgraded. Maybe they'd just sell them to fellow racers.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Oh, and did everybody else already catch that Big S now "goes to eleven"? I guess it happened earlier this year, and I just how found out. Sigh...
    *** 10 speed chains are narrow enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    And no suggestions for the EPO?
    *** External Purchase Order? Extraterrestrial Purchase Option? Eccentric Personal Ogre? Wait, CB's got one of those.

    BrianMc

  14. #14
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    Well. My opinion, on the pricier side, would be a Surly Cross Check. Has both single/dual pivot brake mounting as well as canti/V brake studs, as well as a fully tapped frame for front/rear racks and panniers.

    It does come as a built up bike (expensive at well over 1k) but is also available as a frame at significantly less. If you have parts, it can easily be built up as a single speed (light and zippy!) or geared. The fact that the frame is intended for cross use, means that it has geometry between a road bike and a mountain bike (maybe more what you are looking for?). On the other hand, short chainstays may mean you'll hit your panniers.

    I might be biased, since I've been crushing on it lately, so take it with a grain of salt. Of course, you could always try to land a used one...

  15. #15
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    I read the post and Surly Crosscheck kept popping into my head over and over again.

    It's 700c, but it's so rediculously versatile you'll be able to keep it for a lifetime. Thick tires, thin tires, singlespeed, geared, dyno, racks for touring, etc etc. It's sturdy despite being steel if you're a bigger guy too. A friend of mine (235lbs) had one, sold it and built a Salsa only to find it was a noodle compared to the old Crosscheck.

  16. #16
    weirdo
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    Crosscheck pricey? I dunno what the frameset runs, but the complete looks like a bargain in my eyes. It`s a little bit towards the "ruf-N-Tuf" side of center for me, but if I planned to buy new, it`d be at the very top of my list now that Salsa dropped the Casseroll.

    I wasn`t going to post back in this thread again, but wanted to acknowledge the CC suggestions. Anyway, the more I think about it all, the more I feel like I should date a few first and then marry Ms Right when I know better what she`s going to be like. I want to start rescuing likely candidates from CL to rotate whenever the next comes along. I really ought to try a few CXers and road-sport models for long enough to get a feel for them. Of course, I`ve been known to be rash with the checkbook in the past

  17. #17
    CB of the East
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    Here's a scientific view.

    Since I ride every style of bike (except the fat bike that got sold out from under me) it is easy to see that the Cross Check gets the most use

    Bike / Miles This Year
    Univega Viva Sport- My old friend / 908
    Bridgestone MB-3 - Old mountain bike/now "commuter" / 1319
    GT Sensor 1.0 - FS mountain fun/winter trail commuter / 822
    Scott CR1 - Light and Fast / 287
    Surly Cross Check - My new friend / 1718

    OK, so the Surly is the new toy so maybe it is favored. The framsset runs $440-500. I picked up my complete bike, with a triple, and an 8-speed (You're jealous aren't you) used for $800 and it was only one model year old. Other than all the bosses in all the right places the frame has an adjustable rear dropout so you can adjust the wheelbase to change it from "sporty" to "stable". The frame is really strong but fairly heavy. Their frames have nice attention to detail. I'm sure there are dozen's of other similar frames out there that would work too.

    My view on wheel selection: Skinny tires roll faster with less work. PERIOD. Schwalbe can put up all the data they want about rolling resistance. My big apples are the slowest non-knobbed tires I own. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But if you want a faster bike I'd go for 700C. You can run anything from 21c to 45c (maybe bigger) width on the Cross Check.

    Lance is really squirrely about selling EPO right now, use caution when approaching him. I loved your follow-up posts Rodar, funny stuff. What do you mean you aren't going to post here anymore? It's your thread.

  18. #18
    Bedwards Of The West
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    Eccentric Personal Ogre. I like that.

    Wow Rodar, cartridge BB and threadless headset? You are hitting the late 90's at this point!! Before long you'll be right here in the present

    I vote a 'cross bike with DISC BRAKES, lots of clearance, and two wheelsets... I like the 650b idea with some beefy trail tires, and then a more road friendly set.

    ...or an Ogre.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  19. #19
    weirdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Wow Rodar, cartridge BB and threadless headset? You are hitting the late 90's at this point!! Before long you'll be right here in the present
    Don`t get too excited, just yet. None of my current bikes have threadless headsets, but I used to have a bike with one of those stupid and ugly fangle-nut contraptions, and I survived it!

    Quote Originally Posted by bedwards1000 View Post
    My view on wheel selection: Skinny tires roll faster with less work. PERIOD.
    Haha!
    Bedwards, do you remember going around and round with me about a year ago over that? You posted something about how little your commute times changed from bike to bike, and left me dumbfounded because it was less difference than I get just by swapping tirres on the same bike! Anyway, I believe with all my heart that skinny trumps fat for efficiency (speed or energy consevation), just wish I could get away with skinny more often.

    On that note...
    I only weigh about 130#, but I find I need a lot more pressure in skinnies than a lot of "full sized" people because I have an incredible talent for running over obstacles and pinch flatting. In a lot of cases, I bet I use much more tire than I could get away with if I weren`t so spacey and casual about watching where I`m going. If I work on that, there`s a good chance I could drop a few steps in tire width, giving that skinny advantage without the penalty of time spent changing/patching tubes. Something to think about, at least.

  20. #20
    CB of the East
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    On that note: Fat trumps skinny when riding over roadsides full of downed branches from Sandy. I was glad to be riding the tank today.

    I've been pretty happy with these on my cross bike. Nashbar Comfort Road Tire. They are a 35c (more like 32c) but have a thin ridge in the center for fast rolling. I've only used them for a week so I'm not sure about durability.

  21. #21
    The Brutally Handsome
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    XOXO | Handsome Cycles will make all your dreams come true:

    Road Geometry
    26" wheels
    Threaded 1" Headset
    Standard BB
    Fender and Rack Eyes
    Canti Brakes

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