Manslaughter Charge for Cyclist- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Manslaughter Charge for Cyclist

    Manslaughter warrant signed against cyclist in fatal Castro... | www.ktvu.com

    There is a of controversy surrounding this case, but two things are undeniable; a pedestrian lost his life and a cyclist could lose his freedom. Sobering thoughts all around.

  2. #2
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    I read about that. Didn't they look at some other red light cameras and find this guy had just been blasting through all of them?
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  3. #3
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    I don't know about cameras showing blowing through red lights, but from another article...

    According to the San Francisco Chronicle, the severity of the charge stems from a perception inside the D.A.'s office that Bucchere's ride down the hill along Divisadero Street preceding the crash, which occurred at the intersection of Market and Castro streets, was exceedingly reckless. While prosecutors believe Bucchere entered the intersection on a yellow light, witnesses reported seeing him run several stop signs and red lights immediately beforehand.

    A tracker on Bucchere's bike clocked him at 35 miles per hour, ten mph over the posted speed limit. Security camera footage of the crash showed Bucchere was traveling at such a high speed he was unable to make any real attempt at stopping or swerving to avoid Hui.


    It's always a question if the press is accurate, but if it's true that the prosecutors already believe the light was yellow when he went through, the case sounds pretty weak. Around here, cyclists have been taking vids of "short yellows", which turn red before a cyclist can get through, making the drivers on the cross-streets believe the bikers are intentionally running red lights.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    A tracker on Bucchere's bike clocked him at 35 miles per hour, ten mph over the posted speed limit. Security camera footage of the crash showed Bucchere was traveling at such a high speed he was unable to make any real attempt at stopping or swerving to avoid Hui.[/I]

    It's always a question if the press is accurate, but if it's true that the prosecutors already believe the light was yellow when he went through, the case sounds pretty weak. Around here, cyclists have been taking vids of "short yellows", which turn red before a cyclist can get through, making the drivers on the cross-streets believe the bikers are intentionally running red lights.
    If they can verify that he was doing 10 mph over the speed limit, then it doesn't matter if the light was yellow or not, since if he was doing the speed limit he wouldn't have been to that intersection at all when the victim tried to cross the street. Also if he rode that area on a regular basis (which I got that impression from in the article), he had to know how the lights, traffic, and pedestrians generally behave and rode accordingly. I'm not sure if manslaughter charges are in order but I won't argue against them either since a man is dead and he contributed greatly to that death with his actions (allegedly).
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post

    It's always a question if the press is accurate, but if it's true that the prosecutors already believe the light was yellow when he went through, the case sounds pretty weak. Around here, cyclists have been taking vids of "short yellows", which turn red before a cyclist can get through, making the drivers on the cross-streets believe the bikers are intentionally running red lights.

    There is one intersection near by where if I enter as the light turns green, the light will be red and I still have maybe 15-20ft to go before I enter the crosswalk at the far side. The light is yellow as soon as I cross through the near side crosswalk and make it maybe to the first lane. The street is about 130-140ft wide. And yes, this is in San Francisco.

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    In indiana, if I make it into the intersection before the light turns red, I am legal. I have one intersection with six lanes and a median, that is I am the third vehicle, I will enter on the green and finish the last lane or two on the red. We are required to yield to all traffic in the intersection and immanent on entering the intersection when the light goes green in our direction. Pedestrians, technically always have right of way, short of suicidal stepping into traffic. It sounds like it was avoidable. In my book that is where the culpability lies and responsibility kicks in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc View Post
    In indiana, if I make it into the intersection before the light turns red, I am legal. I have one intersection with six lanes and a median, that is I am the third vehicle, I will enter on the green and finish the last lane or two on the red. We are required to yield to all traffic in the intersection and immanent on entering the intersection when the light goes green in our direction. Pedestrians, technically always have right of way, short of suicidal stepping into traffic. It sounds like it was avoidable. In my book that is where the culpability lies and responsibility kicks in.

    BrianMc
    Around here you can enter on green, but not yellow.

    Yellow is only intended to clear the intersection.

    Surprisingly you only get ticketed for entering on red.

    If you are still in the intersection when it turns red you are not the problem.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Around here you can enter on green, but not yellow.

    Yellow is only intended to clear the intersection.

    Surprisingly you only get ticketed for entering on red.

    If you are still in the intersection when it turns red you are not the problem.
    Same in Oklahoma. Yellow means clear, not enter and beat the red. Citations (and warnings which I give 99% of the time) can and have been issued for the light turning red while they are in the intersection. This applied if the light is yellow and you can safely come to a stop in expectation of the red. Of course if you'd have to lock up the brakes to comply, then you are legal to proceed through the intersection and go about your way.

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    I remember reading about this when it first happened. sounds like there's some evidence for the guy riding recklessly. whether it's sufficient for a conviction will be for the jury to decide. if, however, he was going 10 over the speed limit when this happened, I agree that it doesn't matter what color the light was.

    I have encountered excessively quick light changes in the past. the worst are the excessively quick crosswalk lights. there was one in Ohio I had to cross almost daily that was ridiculously fast. I worked at a building that was kitty-corner to the parking lot and the walk sign would be lit for about long enough to make it across 1 lane of a 5 lane intersection. I had so many close calls there that I'm surprised I lived this long. an elderly lady was hit and killed by a car at that intersection not long after I stopped working there.

  10. #10
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    I would say if this bozo was as reckless as these reports say, then lock him up. If somebody ran over one of my kids or wife riding like that I'd be bloody well sure to kill the idiot right then and there. Doesn't matter that he's a fellow biker. He's lucky he didn't get lynched.
    Baby, I want my face to be your quiver killer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Bluth View Post
    I would say if this bozo was as reckless as these reports say, then lock him up. If somebody ran over one of my kids or wife riding like that I'd be bloody well sure to kill the idiot right then and there. Doesn't matter that he's a fellow biker. He's lucky he didn't get lynched.
    Yer damn skippy!


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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    ... if, however, he was going 10 over the speed limit when this happened, I agree that it doesn't matter what color the light was.
    If he was going 25 through a yellow instead of 35, wouldn't there just have been more peds in the intersection?


    Jseko, is there a delay in SF between the red light for cars and the "WALK" signal for peds? As a kid in NYC, they were simultaneous, but now they delay the walk sign a few seconds for safety.

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    To the actual place of incident, that intersection is huge (not all are "equal" by any stretch). It is not one to risk running because of cars and especially the pedestrian-rich neighborhood. I use to commute from two different directions that involved coursing thru this area, and it is not optimal for cyclists to come down Castro, heading south- it is steep, and economically most riders turn before this intersection. Often I use to come from the east, with traffic- downhill, and had the lights timed. It was not an intersection to be sloppy with, solely because there are always streams of people (there is also a Bart/Muni Sub station). Unfortunately Mr. Bucchere was extremely poor at selecting his route, or didn't know the risk to everybody if he wasn't within commonsense limits- and this just happens to be well within the law. At the very very least a cyclist is to be amongst the pack of cars that sweep off the hills, and they're generally above the speed limit moments before this intersection. It is an unfortunate cross of multiple lanes and is especially ped-rich to begin with. I wonder what the stats are for accidents here anyway. It must be relatively high both in frequency and severity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    If he was going 25 through a yellow instead of 35, wouldn't there just have been more peds in the intersection?


    Jseko, is there a delay in SF between the red light for cars and the "WALK" signal for peds? As a kid in NYC, they were simultaneous, but now they delay the walk sign a few seconds for safety.
    I did find if I had to go this direction specifically, coming down Castro south, I would have to be wary- all too often pedestrians would jump the signal on the far side, despite all the cars. But you immediately learn the environment- for your own sake. Cyclist by nature take the path least hindered, it is safer to be moving than "dead"-stopped, but this is definitely not the easy way to move; the light isn't really long enough if you hit the flat @ the change (you don't see yellow until in).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    If he was going 25 through a yellow instead of 35, wouldn't there just have been more peds in the intersection?


    Jseko, is there a delay in SF between the red light for cars and the "WALK" signal for peds? As a kid in NYC, they were simultaneous, but now they delay the walk sign a few seconds for safety.
    It differs depending on the intersection. Some have the lights red in all directions for up to maybe 4 or 5 seconds. Some have the lights turn green as soon as the cross-direction turns red. Some locations give the ped walk signal about 4-5 seconds before automobiles in the same direction get their green.

    There are also intersections where automobiles get segregated crossing periods so that during one period in the cycle all automotive traffic gets red signal and peds can cross in all directions.

  16. #16
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    In the same way that bicycles often don`t register with drivers` minds, I can easily imagine a pedestrian seeing the green light, looking briefly for cars (not for bikes), and then stepping out, directly into the path of a two wheeled gravity fed freight train.

    Maybe it`s necessary for some reason given the specifics of riding that area, but 35 MPH sounds awfully fast for a congested area to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Around here you can enter on green, but not yellow.

    Yellow is only intended to clear the intersection.

    Surprisingly you only get ticketed for entering on red.

    If you are still in the intersection when it turns red you are not the problem.
    Even if he is not the problem, it is definitely a problem for him. If the road has multiple lanes, then it is entirely possible for a bicycle to be hidden by adjacent cars.

  18. #18
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    lots if not most crosswalk signals in the city have a countdown timer for the pedestrians and that makes it real easy to see when the light will go to yellow.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Around here you can enter on green, but not yellow.

    Yellow is only intended to clear the intersection.

    Surprisingly you only get ticketed for entering on red.

    If you are still in the intersection when it turns red you are not the problem.
    How is it possible? I can not believe that is true anywhere - it is not physically possible to stop when the light turns yellow and you are riding, below speed limit, closer then your minimal stopping distance.

    Everywhere in the world where I have been, yellow means stop before the intersection if you can do that safely, proceed and clear the intersection if you can not. I have never heard of being ticketed for entering on yellow.

    And if you had entered the intersection on yellow, you have a right to continue and other cars (and pedestrians) must let you. It is their responsibility to not start moving until it is clear - green light alone does not give you a right to run into somebody who is still there. I have heard about cases when somebody was found to be at fault for moving into an intersection on green and hitting other car that was still there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    ... but 35 MPH sounds awfully fast for a congested area to me.
    Speed and racing emphasized in this update...Manslaughter charge for cyclist in Castro crash

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    I was not there, but from the what I have read about this account, I feel manslaughter charges are appropriate.

    It doesn't make any difference if he was on a bike, motorcycle, or driving a car. His actions appear to have been wreckless, and as a result someone lost their life.

    This is sad, very sad.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post

    Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post

    Wow.
    no kidding. no wonder they're throwing the book at this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    Speed and racing emphasized in this update...Manslaughter charge for cyclist in Castro crash
    I take back my earlier post, IF they can prove the things they alleged, then manslaughter charges are definitely in order and deserves the max sentence. There is no excuse for that sort of recklessness in town when there are highways, parks, and tracks for speed riding.
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

  25. #25
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    Wow... that is just stupid... I like that he posted on a local cycling clubs website about it after the fact.. Way to incriminate yourself dude. But seriously, if you are "way to committed" then you are going to fast and in the wrong. At least his lawyer had the decency to have him turn himself in and cooperate..

    I can imagine the conversation:
    Buscherre: Ok bro, what now?
    Lawyer: You're f#$%ed!
    Buscherre: Really? I mean, I went for the least crowded area? I didn't want to scratch my pretty new bike man!
    Lawyer: Go turn yourself in and MAYBE there will give you some pity.
    Buscherre: Seriously? Ah that is harsh. If it hadn't been for that old f#%$er I would have totally dusted my buddy!!!

    Stupidity is not an illness, but it can be cured (with a gun and bullet).

    I guarantee if he had blown through all that and been "clipped" by a car he would have been screaming bloody murder and have multiple law suits against the driver.

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    "Have you been charged with a felony"

    why yes i have....

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    regardless of the speed of the cyclist and wether or not the pedestrian was in the wrong. california law is pretty clear your not supposed to hit them. this of course leads to pedestrians in my area not even checking for traffic except on the busiest streets ( where its still hit and miss)

    V C Section 21950 Right of Way at Crosswalks

    b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a marked or unmarked crosswalk.

    (d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.

  28. #28
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    Just came across this while looking at BikeRadar.com... Sometimes I can't believe the ********* of people. We get a bad enough wrap because people think we are irresponsible and what not, then to PUBLICIZE something like this... Wow...

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/43954522" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/43954522">LINE OF SIGHT - Official Trailer</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user7474735">Zenga Bros</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

  29. #29
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    I find that trailer to be fascinating and horrifying all at the same time...

  30. #30
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    Cat. 6 FTW!

    Seriously, though, I wish that people who wanted to race would pin a number on and do it on controlled courses, and that USAC would get the hell out of the way.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    Axe
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    So when do we expect that guy to sue Strava for making him do that?

    Not completely a joke... Unfortunately.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    So when do we expect that guy to sue Strava for making him do that?

    Not completely a joke... Unfortunately.
    Yeah no doubt... Seems like a bad version of the guy from FunnyJunk suing theOatmeal for illegally hosting theoatmeals content and making a profit.... Got to love that crap. Might as well just sue, sue, sue to my hearts content!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah no doubt... Seems like a bad version of the guy from FunnyJunk suing theOatmeal for illegally hosting theoatmeals content and making a profit.... Got to love that crap. Might as well just sue, sue, sue to my hearts content!
    Now FJ's lawyer has filed a suit against The Oatmeal, the charity website, National Wildlife Federation, and American Cancer Society because he was embarassed by Oaty raising in excess of $180,000 for charity to spite his demand for $20,000...and maybe a couple of jokes. Lawyer blogs are having fun at this guy's expense, too.

  34. #34
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah no doubt... Seems like a bad version of the guy from FunnyJunk suing theOatmeal for illegally hosting theoatmeals content and making a profit.... Got to love that crap. Might as well just sue, sue, sue to my hearts content!
    I thought that was just some random gibberish until I Googled the news...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I thought that was just some random gibberish until I Googled the news...
    Hmmm...
    I guess it`s time for me to start googling too- soundss like I`m missing out on something good.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Hmmm...
    I guess it`s time for me to start googling too- soundss like I`m missing out on something good.
    The whole scenario dates back about a year. Will be tough to catch up on everything

  37. #37
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    If I could find it there was a pretty good article called (something like) How to lose at the Internets...blah blah blah. theOatmeal gets sued that did a good job of summarizing. If nothing else read theOatmeals rebuttle to the papers regarding the original suit.

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  39. #39
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    You`re right, Nate. Oatmeal and Funky were just too deep for me- would take too many hours of study to figure out what the heck is going on.

    "Bucchere, who left the courthouse without speaking to reporters following his 10-minute arraignment,...."
    Well, at least he seems to have learned SOMETHING from the whole incedent

  40. #40
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    I really hope this doesn't boil down to "I didn't want to un-clip from my pedals"
    .

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    So when do we expect that guy to sue Strava for making him do that?

    Not completely a joke... Unfortunately.
    I remember after that incident Strava made all their users submit to a new set of terms and conditions.

  42. #42
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    Most-recent info that I could find today:
    Chris Bucchere, Cyclist Accused of Killing Elderly Man, Headed to Court Today - San Francisco - News - The Snitch

    If the evidence reported in various stories is accurate, then I'm all for locking up the wanker for a good long time. Killing pedestrians is bad, bad, bad--regardless if it's done with a bike, car, etc.

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