LifePaiint, have you seen it?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    My time spent videoing bike reflectors and lights and Hi-Vis clothing at night says that in low beams, nothing much above the waist shows up. So that photo is high beam or shot with more exposure and so highly misleading about actual performance on streets with actual cars.

    Secondly, they do say in the glare of car headlights. Unfortunately, that 'glare' extends only far enough for about a one second warning to a driver on a right angle cross street with the bike across the street doing about 16 mph. If the cyclist is on the near side, it is less than a half second, with the cyclist 3' from the curb. So it is best at telling the drive they are about to run over a cyclist and not so good at warning them not to.

    More is better. Defense in depth, and all of that. Here drivers spend a bit longer at stops after dark but they launch pretty fast maybe a second or two after stopping or nearly so. So this is nice but no magic solution. Nothing beats lights of some sort at night.

    If one combined this paint with low power LEDs in clothing, you might have something.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    439
    Brilliant. Pun only partially intended. I would love to have high visibility clothing and bike parts without the "racer boy" style, in addition to my assortment of lights.

    Brian, you have the expertise in the research of bike visibility. Would something like this light up with a properly directed, cheap, bike mounted light like the Planet Bike Blinky? Or, would this need small LEDs mounted elsewhere to create a constant glow?

    Magic paint is no panacea, but, I can imagine that having all surfaces of panniers, frame, and shoes would make a bike much more visible to motorists. I would love a can of this stuff.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    In this video I used a flashlight to wash the front of the Hi-Vis vest and jacket form 1:41 on. The paint should not need as much light for the same effect. I had trouble aiming the light on the back to wash it with light (no helper - pretty cold out that night).



    Seems a shame to spray a new jacket but you have to wonder how one of these would turn out:

    chttp://www.amazon.com/Badger-360°-Jacket-Cycling-Running/dp/B00EHMFMPU

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    173
    If you want reflective clothing try Sugoi's zap jacket, Available in his vis yellow, black and red. It has a bunch of reflective dots built into the jacket. Mens and womens styles available. Zap Bike Jacket ? SUGOI Performance Apparel.

  6. #6
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,919
    I liked bike snob's take on it, but that's the norm for me.
    Bike Snob NYC: Sprayed and Neutered: When It Comes To Safety, It's All On You

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rogbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    I can think of a few better ways to use that product. I wonder if it comes in barrel size?

    Also, a rebranded animal spray. Says a lot about how car companies think about non-motorists.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Volvo LifePaint makes cyclists safer by making them more visible

    It appears in the video to be activated by street lighting too, and not just low beam headlights. It is sprayable on all surfaces. Arm signals visible for cheap. Great. IT would still suck on my mostly unlit residential street unless the lights at my drives will be enough. That would be a quantum leap over reflectors. I wonder how well it would work on rims with a wash of light compared to the Glo tape. Lighter is a plus. Hope it isn't too removable by water, though.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    ^^Contrary to the article, the 2020 campaign I've seen is not limited to protecting people in a Volvo.

    "By 2020, no person will be killed, or seriously injured, by a new Volvo."

    I would be more interested in the permanent paint version they reference:
    In the making of this film we used both reflective paint products available from Albedo100. Lifepaint was used on textiles and is water based, and the other Albedo reflective paint products are for metals and are oil based so not suitable for use on textiles due to permanent nature. The film has not had any post production enhancement to the reflective capabilities seen.

    from
    Volvo Cars Life Paint

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    ^ this pdf uses the other version:
    Our Vision is that no one is killed or injured in a Volvo by 2020
    Sneaky sneaky.

    Retroreflective paint isn't new, and Edmonton Bicycle Commuters has actually been holding DIY workshops for years. I've never actually been involved with it, so I don't know what product they were using:

    From: https://breakingchainstakinglanes.wo...tive-goodness/

    The fact that a car company is parroting an existing product to shame cyclists is a problem.

    On the day that Volvo drivers stop hitting pedestrians, other cars, and inanimate objects then maybe it will be the time to put extra onus on cyclists to douse themselves with paint every fortnight. Or even on the day that volvo starts using reftroflective paint on all of its models AND shames other auto manufacturers into doing it too.

    But until then the response should be "f* off volvo" (while also encouraging the paint manufacturer to make their product more widely available for anyone who wants to use it)

  12. #12
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    ^^Did I miss something? I don't actually see any cyclist shaming in that 82 page PDF from Volvo.

    Not sure why retroreflective paint would be a good idea when available through Edmonton bikecommuters and a bad idea when publicized by Volvo.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    It's incredibly cheesy to base your safety policy (or one version of your safety policy) on other people doing stuff for you.

    In 2021 when a Volvo hits a cyclist, is it the cyclist's fault for not wearing paint?
    "We did everything we could to meet our vision, but these cyclists just aren't team players"
    "Uh, collisions with cyclists are less than 1% of the total. What about all of others?"
    "Cyclists! It's those pesky cyclists! Here, have some paint."

    Paint is fine, but it won't make drivers stop running people over at crosswalks, stop texting, or actually give a shit.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rogbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    It's a car company, and the message is basically, "Wear this spray. Because, if you don't it's your fault the driver of a vehicle hit you." It's the same thinking behind the compulsory helment law that's in the legislative process in California. Beyond that, it comes from the same sentiment that media gives cyclists in a car/bike collision: the mention of a rider wearing or not wearing a helment. Despite the fact that helments are irrelevant to any sort of collision. Yes, helments and retroreflective paint won't hurt, but that doesn't solve the issue of reckless, careless, inattentive drivers.

    Why isn't Volvo concentrated on making the drivers of their vehicles aware that the onus of safety is on them in regards to other roads users?

    I think this product is great, but not for its intended use. I'd rather cover the streets in messages with it that motorists can see as they drive at night, al la Yehuda Moon.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,428
    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    Why isn't Volvo concentrated on making the drivers of their vehicles aware that the onus of safety is on them in regards to other roads users?
    That would mean they might lose customers, since the other guys aren't blaming them for running people over.

    Bikesnob had a link in one of his posts the past week (?) to a brief history about the evolution of society's view on (specifically pedestrian) collisions.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    Just for fun, here's a slightly more honest approach (although admittedly I may be double-counting some of the collisions - the data is from a bunch of different tables, and I'm not quite sure where they overlap)


  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    824
    If I remember correctly Volvo is working to make it's cars safer around cyclists as well, involving a system that can track pedestrians and cyclists and automatically apply the brakes. Not sure if this is in production or not yet, but they showed it off a couple years ago.

    Just because they are making this paint an option doesn't mean they are blaming cyclists for accidents, nor does it mean they aren't working other angles.

    If we bash companies for trying to do something to help, we probably shouldn't complain when they stop trying...

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Paint is fine, but it won't make drivers stop running people over at crosswalks, stop texting, or actually give a shit.
    In general. I feel safer riding at night *but* I am not riding in overly lit, high traffic, and visually overloaded situations of urban centers much. I am riding with drivers not as well tested before licensing as British or Swedish drivers (some here are unbelievably incompetent). So there is an unhealthy amount of incompetence with alcohol, drugs, and phone use layered on that. Helping drivers here not hit me if they can avoid it *is* my duty to myself and family. Others can do what they please.

    I agree that there seems to be a meta message from Volvo that cyclists are to blame without posting the real statistics of motor vehicle collisions (Volvo does not want an anti-car campaign to get launched or its safety-minded buyers may opt not to buy at all!) or pointing out how hazardous phone use/texting is, especially combined with some alcohol. So Volvo is being very self-serving. Dying of unsurprise here.

    So besides the self-serving (and one might say finger pointing aspect), is either form of the paint useful? If you ride where you are in many cars' beams, under street lights, etc., it looks decent assuming that drivers are looking and driving respectfully.

    However, the video shows a driver cut off cyclist by diving into the bike lane with no turn signal and then slamming on the brakes. The implication is that that would not happen with this product. Complete Hogwash! The cyclist could have been a supernova of light and I'd bet that would still have occurred. Drivers pass us and forget we are going almost as fast and then do crap like this all the time, and being more visible will not help that because they did not look before they cut over. If you don't look, no amount of lights or reflectors will help you avoid the accident.

    Then there is the possibility that the driver knew he cut off the cyclist in an attempt to reduce damage to their car because they screwed up (better to be hit in the rear by a cyclist than to total the front end against another car). Again being visible would do nothing.

    The best I can say for it is that Volvo may have determined a higher percentage of driver/cyclists own Volvos and Volvo is protecting its sales base and resale value (affects lease costs, and so new sales). Or maybe they would like to attract cyclist/motorist buyers because they are trying to help out?

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rogbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc View Post
    Or maybe they would like to attract cyclist/motorist buyers because they are trying to help out?
    Cycling is the new golf. That's the demographic they're going after.

    And this ad/product fits in perfectly to reinforce to motorists that cyclists are responsible for their own safety. If they're not lighted like a moon-tower or wearing a helment any injury caused to them, by themselves or from others' actions, is the cyclists' fault.

  20. #20
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: mtbxplorer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,685
    Lifepaint is last week's news...if you are not wearing an animal onesie, you are clearly an irresponsible rider!
    Cyclist's onesie brings out smiles | Stuff.co.nz

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    ^ not very reflective.


    Back to lifepaint:

    Volvo Life Paint comes under fire while freebies fly off the shelves | road.cc

    https://www.change.org/p/volvo-europ...eir-life-paint

    edited to add: the second link is one of those made-up petitions that's been started to get volvo to use "lifepaint" on all their cars.

    But if I were to go to the trouble of making a made-up petition for volvo - suggesting that they change their behaviour so that I could meet my personal safety targets - I would have gone for something like this:

    Last edited by newfangled; 04-07-2015 at 06:45 AM.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: newfangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,320
    And one more thing I stumbled upon:


    From Britain's Safest Drivers | Tiger.co.uk

    Not sure of the validity of the source, but it looks like its a UK insurance company, and the data is from 2012 and is supposed to be based on 5 years worth of insurance claims.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,373
    ^^ Why I drive with lights on day or night. Especially as the Mercury is a dark gray-blue that will blend into pavement. I suspect they need to break the red out into bight an dark red (burgundy). I suspect the shade of red would explain some discrepancies in that column. Still it looks like Volvos attract unsafe or incompetent drivers. My past impression was that Volvos were disproportionately in the 10% that I try to let pass me to feed the bears.

  24. #24
    guy
    Reputation: Kleebs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    357
    Surprise surprise that the luxury brands have the highest accident rates. That definitely fits with my own anecdotal evidence. They are always the ones that pass too close and most likely to be ass deep in their cell phones.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.