Joggers in bikelanes

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  • 04-29-2008
    RockyRider
    Joggers in bikelanes
    Hopefully this doesn't sound too much like a rant- really I'm just curious. I'm not a runner and never was and I have nothing against them. I know it's best for runners to run facing traffic so they can see what is coming but why do so many runners run in the bike lane? Especially when there is a sidewalk or in some cases a lane next to the bike lane for pedestrians in my city? Am I wrong in thinking they shouldn't be there? There are some who refuse to move at all so I end up going into the pedestrian lane or traffic to get around them. Any runners here that can educate me on this? As I said- I'm not a runner so I'm really pretty ignorant on a runner's perspective.
  • 04-29-2008
    Yardstick
    I've seen that too! I don't have the answer, but I'm curious to know what the answer is...
  • 04-29-2008
    tsinillas
    The rational is that concrete (sidewalk) is much harder than asphalt and thus much harsher on the knees when running or jogging. Gravel is a much preferable surface to run on but asphalt is alternative.
  • 04-29-2008
    rodar y rodar
    If I were a runner in the city (and had a bike lane available to me), that`s probably where I`d run. Imagine trying to keep an even stride up and down curbs and around garbage cans. Maybe bicyclists don`t like it just like drivers don`t like bicyclists on "their" lanes. Personally, I wouldn`t want to pay my share of the price for building and maintaining a sportcar lane, a HOV lane, a truck lane, a bicycle lane, a walking sidewalk, a jogging sidewalk, bicycle sidewalk (for the kiddies), and a rollerblade lane for every possible route. Probably better to "multitask" our routes a bit.
  • 04-29-2008
    umarth
    I tend to run on the sidewalks just to avoid pissing off bikers. I generally think it is lame to run in the bike lane, just like it is lame to bike the wrong way in the bike lane.

    I chalk it up to another instance of people being stupid, so I kick runners with my cleat as I ride by.
  • 04-30-2008
    majura
    Much the same way roller-bladers (so 90's isn't it!) blade in the bike lanes here. I see why they do it. Problem is they go just as slow as your slow commuter, but take up twice the space making it dangerous to pass. It's annoying but I'd say adopt a live and let live approach.
  • 04-30-2008
    kenpuke
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by majura
    Much the same way roller-bladers (so 90's isn't it!) blade in the bike lanes here. I see why they do it. Problem is they go just as slow as your slow commuter, but take up twice the space making it dangerous to pass. It's annoying but I'd say adopt a live and let live approach.

    people still roller blade??? :)... maybe some joggers fell they have right of way in all situations?
  • 04-30-2008
    nepbug
    I also run a lot, the difference in hardness between concrete and asphalt is considerable and can be felt when you're putting in a lot of miles. It's weird when you start thinking, sweet here comes some nice soft asphalt.

    When I run on asphalt I run through my neighborhood and I run in the dead center of the street unless there is a car coming. The camber of the road can wreak havoc on your joints and create imbalances, probably similar to the left side of your tire wearing down a little more quickly than the right from riding on highly cambered roads.

    Just smile and be nice, and be glad that even if they are wearing an iPod they are running towards you and can see you instead of being startled when you go past.
  • 04-30-2008
    cazloco
    It really is amazing of all the things that end up in the bike lane. Parked cars, garbage and recycling cans, leaf piles in the fall, snow piles in the winter, runners, walkers, moving cars in a multitude of situations from passing cars on the right and just because they can. Not to forget storm drains and road construction signs. And then in this town, the street cleaners clean the roadway and brush all the debris into the bike lanes. I could go on.

    No, really, it is amazing of all the things that end up in the bike lane and there really isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

    But it is easier to run in the bikelane instead of hopping curbs every block, cracks in the sidewalk and those who park cars in their driveway and block the sidewalks. Joggers stay off the sidewalks for the same reason as bicyclist.


    Caz
  • 04-30-2008
    rockcrusher
    I had an experience last week where I was shoulder checking for an upcoming cross traffic left turn and as I refocused on my bike lane a jogger had jumped in was looking down, wearing a visor and glancing at his Ipod. If I hadn't look at that moment we would most likely had collided. I jumped out into traffic crossed to the center lane and made my left but it scared me as I don't think he ever noticed me coming.

    I am a runner and cyclist and I prefer to avoid running in bike lanes for the obvious reason or avoiding cyclists but also just to have that extra excitement of running in and around things that running on the sidewalk brings, more like trail running for me.
  • 04-30-2008
    blahwtf?
    i have seen this today, and didn't think about it, but then again i bike on the side walk most of the time. yeah, i know i'm bad. and i have been ticketed for it once. maybe them running on the path has something to do with actual distance ran, idk? the sidewalks here are pretty bumpy and uneven, whereas the bike lane is relatively smooth cuz the city has only been developing it for a few years. the sidewalk isnt made for the frost heaves and its broken up loat of the time, also where it isnt theyve replaced it with concrete which someone else here said its not the preferrable terrain.
  • 05-01-2008
    pimpbot
    That's nuthin'
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RockyRider
    Hopefully this doesn't sound too much like a rant- really I'm just curious. I'm not a runner and never was and I have nothing against them. I know it's best for runners to run facing traffic so they can see what is coming but why do so many runners run in the bike lane? Especially when there is a sidewalk or in some cases a lane next to the bike lane for pedestrians in my city? Am I wrong in thinking they shouldn't be there? There are some who refuse to move at all so I end up going into the pedestrian lane or traffic to get around them. Any runners here that can educate me on this? As I said- I'm not a runner so I'm really pretty ignorant on a runner's perspective.

    In my area, high school kids walk in the frickin road of non-busy streets when there is a sidewalk. Not the bike lane, the car lane.

    I totally don't get that.

    But.. my wife told me that when she lived in a not-so-great area of Baltimore, she felt more safe walking in the road because somebody might jump out of a doorway to mug her.
  • 05-01-2008
    rodar y rodar
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pimpbot
    In my area, high school kids walk in the frickin road of non-busy streets when there is a sidewalk. Not the bike lane, the car lane.

    OOohhh! :madmax: Ya gotta love that trick. Let me guess- they stroll right up the middle with their pants half way down to their knees and when they think they might be in somebody`s way they slow down even more? I think I`ve seen that movie.
  • 05-01-2008
    wheelbender6
    Joggers/walkers in the bike lane annoy me too. However, I'd rather see them getting a workout in MY bike lane than sitting on the couch watching Jerry Springer.
  • 05-01-2008
    PscyclePath
    Joggers & runners are pedestrians. In most cases state law requires that when they're on the roadway or adjacent to it, they must walk/run facing oncoming traffic... allegedly so that they can see hazards coming and step out of the way if needed.

    Cyclists and their bicycles are considered by law to be vehicles. Therefore, we have to ride with the flow of traffic.

    Under state law, pedestrians always have the right-of-way, and motorists and cyclists alike have a duty of due care to not hit or run over them. This means that if you are approaching a pedestrian from behind, and you don’t alert the pedestrian of your approach, you could be held liable in a civil suit for negligence, even if the pedestrian inadvertently steps into your path as you approach. If you choose not to use a bell or horn, you must either give pedestrians a wide berth (3’ if possible) as you pass, or slow down and wait until it’s safe to pass them. No matter what your motivation, “buzzing” pedestrians by zipping past very close to them is ill manners, and is extremely poor public relations for cyclists as a whole. Get a bell, or a “Hoota Horn,” and use it.

    Pedestrians operate without rules. While they are generally prohibited from “jaywalking,” or darting out into traffic, pedestrians often act impulsively. They can move in any direction, and change direction on a whim, without notice. Even when the cyclist tries to follow traffic laws on the street, the multi-use trails, bike paths, or even residential sidewalks, he/she/is stymied by the undisciplined hither-and-yon movement of pedestrians.

    Mixing cyclists and pedestrians is about the most dangerous thing that traffic engineers can do. When riding in motor traffic, cyclists are generally safe at about the fastest speed the rider can go, but trying to ride among pedestrians is so hazardous that the “safe” speed is about 5 mph.

    Pedestrian Reactions
    The first principle in dealing with pedestrians from a bike is that they don't know how to deal with you, either. Unlike automobiles, which can be directed by the bicyclist into proper action, pedestrians are less likely to react to a bicyclist even if they see you. The self-righteousness which allows a bicyclist to ride unfriendly streets is multiplied in the person on foot who's sauntering in their own little world, listening to the wind in the trees, watching the sun on the water, or with music blasting through their iPods. They get upset if you call attention to yourself in the wrong way, yet they also get upset if they don't see you until you're too close.

    Head-On
    If you're meeting head-on on a bike path, there is an immediate dilemma as you want to keep right and they want to keep left; that is, on the same side of the bike path. As the faster moving participant in the encounter, the bicyclist must chose where to go. Pick the side with the most room, and catch their eye by moving around a bit. Slow down and point to the direction you plan to pass. If you can't get their attention, slow down even more, and swing wider around them. If you're approaching a group of people which is blocking your path, usually one will see you and move some of their friends out of your way. Try to be as predictable as possible; stay to one edge of the path and don't wobble.

    Meeting on a Road
    If you meet pedestrians or joggers on a road without sidewalks, and you and they are both on the proper side of the road, you will meet head-on. Cyclists should leave the shoulder or pavement edge to the person on foot, as we have the right to take a lane of the road. Again, signal your intention to move to the pedestrian's right (your left).

    Approaching from the Rear
    When approaching a pedestrian from the rear, pass as far away as you can to avoid startling them. Ring your bell, or speak to them, saying "Passing left," or "Passing right" to let them know that there's a bicycle approaching and what action they should take. If they have headphones on, you might need to shout; otherwise, just use a slightly louder than normal voice. Don't wait until you are on top of them, but don't yell from so far away that they won't know they're affected. As always, slow down to pass.

    Kids
    Parents often take children for walks on bike paths because they're isolated from the dangerous streets. Give them as wide a berth as you can. Never get between a child and its parent, and make sure they know that you know that they're in front of you by smiling or saying "Hi." A similar rule can be followed for dealing with dogs and their masters.

    Cyclist-pedestrian collisions aren’t as frequent as they could be (fortunately), but here are some of the root causes and what you can do to avoid them:
    • Riding the Wrong Way down a street and hitting a pedestrian who is looking in the opposite direction. This is the cyclist’s fault; there is no excuse for this type of accident. Ride right.
    • Pedestrian Walking Against a Light, crossing with their ears, not their eyes. Most people look only when they hear something approaching. They will not look for you, so you must expect the unexpected. When they do see you, they will panic, move to the left, then to the right, and then suddenly at the last moment, they will run right in front of you. Keep a tight grip on your brake levers.
    • Pedestrian (jaywalker), Obscured by a Van or Truck, Comes Out of Nowhere into the Middle of the Road. This is the hardest type of accident to avoid. It happens in standstill traffic. Again, the best thing to do is to ride very slowly in such situations. Moral of the story: go very slowly when entering highly congested areas. Do not go blazing through a thick wall of pedestrians at 20 mph. The pedestrian has the right of way.


    Oddly enough, the League is looking to add a bike handling skill to the parking lot drills that one has to master in the Road I classes, called "Control." It's basically a chicane, sometimes referred to as "controlled swerving." Practicing it a couple of days ago, because it's something that we didn't get in the Road classes and it wasn't stressed in the LCI seminars previously, it finally dawned on me on the way back over Little Rock's Big Dam Bridge that this drill is likely for "weaving around pedestrians." :madman:

    Y'all do be careful out there...

    Tom
    LCI #1853
  • 05-02-2008
    RockyRider
    I didn't know that asphalt was softer or easier to run on than concrete- that actually makes sense to me. I don't have much heartburn with joggers in the bike lane, but its the ones who run down the middle and refuse to move that annoy me. The ones with headphones on who can't hear me or traffic seem pretty unsafe to me as well. I see the same thing on the trails (and every user group has them) with people who think the trail is theirs and refuse to share it. But the thing is; on the trail it's only an inconvienience, on the road it's a safety issue. I think the key to sharing the lane is the same as it is for bikes on the road- predictability and courtesy. Sometimes you have to take the lane- but most times its safe to share it
  • 05-02-2008
    Jorgemonkey
    I don't bother letting people know (usually joggers/walkers) when I'm on the bike path. I used to say something, but now they all have their ipods on and can't hear you until you're right up behind them.
  • 05-02-2008
    hydrogeek
    Dogs also.....
    In my area people are using those leashes on a reel like a tape measure to walk their dogs. They let the dogs wander where ever, into bike lanes, across multi-use paths, etc. I don't know how many times I have had to slam on my brakes, slow down to a crawl, or ride onto the grass to get around a dog. The owners almost always see me ahead of time and just expect me to go around them. The best is when they let the dog take a big **** and just walk away. :madmax: I have talked to dog walkers about that and many just don't seem to care or don't get it. I explain it's as much for may safety as for the dogs.
  • 05-02-2008
    pimpbot
    Dunno if it's so much softer....
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RockyRider
    I didn't know that asphalt was softer or easier to run on than concrete- that actually makes sense to me. I don't have much heartburn with joggers in the bike lane, but its the ones who run down the middle and refuse to move that annoy me. The ones with headphones on who can't hear me or traffic seem pretty unsafe to me as well. I see the same thing on the trails (and every user group has them) with people who think the trail is theirs and refuse to share it. But the thing is; on the trail it's only an inconvienience, on the road it's a safety issue. I think the key to sharing the lane is the same as it is for bikes on the road- predictability and courtesy. Sometimes you have to take the lane- but most times its safe to share it

    .. but asphalt absorbs vibration much better. Concrete reflects shock right back into your knees. Ever notice how noisy concrete freeways are compared to asphalt? Like that.
  • 05-02-2008
    TrekJeff
    I don't mind runners as long as there's enough room to pass. I really love it when they are in to their music and oblivious to anything. Speeding past them and listening for the OH **** reaction is always amusing.
  • 05-05-2008
    crackhead
    Runners are the squirrels of the bike world
  • 05-09-2008
    bigpedaler
    This came up on Judge Judy the other day (yeah, I watch it -- got a problem w/ that? Silliest damned people on the planet, LOL!!)

    Jogger was scared by one cyclist (who scared the 2nd cyclist 5 seconds earlier), and she dodged the bike, only to jump into the path of the 2nd!
  • 05-10-2008
    jeffj
    Where I live, we have the good fortune of having a large network of bike/pedestrian paths that are separate from roadways. They are asphalt and split into three lanes one for each way of bicycle traffic and another lane to one side exclusively for pedestrians.

    Funny thing is that you hardly EVER (seriously) see a pedestrian in the lane clearly marked for them and instead, most are wandering obliviously in the lanes clearly marked for bicycle traffic. I would have far less impediments if I rode exclusively in the pedestrian lane. The 'different surface' or other arguments are a moot point since the whole thing is asphalt and otherwise exactly the same as the lanes marked for bicycle traffic.