I got hit by a car. Again. x3 now.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    I got hit by a car. Again. x3 now.

    Got hit by another car on my road bike commuting to work.

    I am done with road bikes.

    Severe contusion / laxity in my left ring finger.

    Strain / partial tear of Quadriceps / Patellar ligament on my left knee (the same knee that I just finished physical therapy for at the end of December).


    On the plus side, when I was hit my hand broke their side mirror off, my knee dented their door really bad, and my pedal punctured their door.

  2. #2
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    Wow, road riding might not be the thing for you.

    Santa Cruz right?

  3. #3
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    Holy crap dude. I was going to say that this isn't your year, but this is a whole new year. Are you taking unnecessary risks, or are there just that many idiots driving around there?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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    (no excuse for that either)

  4. #4
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    Not my fault again. I was in a bike lane doing everything I should be. Then I get side swiped by this car.

    Yeah this is in Santa Cruz CA. Apparently just a bunch of bad drivers.

    I think I am just going to sell my road bikes and stick to mtb riding. I hate the idea of not being able to ride to work, but I think the universe is trying to tell me something...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    Got hit by another car on my road bike commuting to work.

    I am done with road bikes.

    Severe contusion / laxity in my left ring finger.

    Strain / partial tear of Quadriceps / Patellar ligament on my left knee (the same knee that I just finished physical therapy for at the end of December).


    On the plus side, when I was hit my hand broke their side mirror off, my knee dented their door really bad, and my pedal punctured their door.

    Five years every day and no hits.....

    You really need to step back and consider what you are doing before you die.

  6. #6
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    Wow Joshed, sorry to hear that - must've been scary! Hope you can heal up 100%. Lotta bad drivers out there, sorry they seem to be finding you. We (VT) lost 2 twentysomething drivers yesterday to a head-on crash for no reason (that they have figured out yet anyway - daylight, not speeding, etc.), so it's dangerous out there. We have also lost 6 snowmobilers already this winter - strating to make my bike commute look safer.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Five years every day and no hits.....

    You really need to step back and consider what you are doing before you die.
    You are lucky.

    I just have terrible luck apparently. I have not been in the wrong with any of my accidents. I am a super cautious/defensive commuter and there are some things I obviously cannot control.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer
    Wow Joshed, sorry to hear that - must've been scary! Hope you can heal up 100%. Lotta bad drivers out there, sorry they seem to be finding you. We (VT) lost 2 twentysomething drivers yesterday to a head-on crash for no reason (that they have figured out yet anyway - daylight, not speeding, etc.), so it's dangerous out there. We have also lost 6 snowmobilers already this winter - strating to make my bike commute look safer.
    That is scary and thanks man. =]


    Hopefully be riding (mtb) again soon. I really think I am done doing road/commuting. =\

  9. #9
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    Dude! you have a bunch of idiots driving in your town! Keep safe and heal of quick!!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say. Joshua Stinebrink

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  10. #10
    namagomi
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    That is some bad luck(or good luck since you're still here), since you're quitting though I don't have any advice to offer.

    Perhaps you can write a short piece for the local newspaper on your perspective.

    Sorry these people deprived you of the chance to enjoy cycling.

  11. #11
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    JESUS CHRIST JOSH, again?!? I hope you're OK. I can't believe I'm saying this, but yeah maybe you should lay off the road cycling for awhile. Sounds like cycling in Santa Cruz is just too dangerous. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!? Hope you heal up quick!
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 May 16, 2010

  12. #12

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    Bummer.... could you stick to yards and sidewalks? I'd hate to have to d.. dd ... driive to work..

  13. #13
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    Holy crap! Man, they must really have it in for you. To be honest, if I had that kind of luck I`d probably be saying goodbye to road riding too.

    So, what`s with the reinjury of your knee? That won`t leave it toasted, will it? I`m sure your hands hurt, but (at least to me), it doesn`t sound as serious as your knee.
    Recalculating....

  14. #14
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    That sucks, no doubt.

    What are you doing to be seen? I'm almost obsessive about being seen. I wear a bright yellow rain jacket or a reflective vest, have three reflectors on each wheel, reflective tape between each spoke front and back, reflective sidewall tires, reflective rear slow-moving vehicle triangle, a normal tail reflector, reflectors on the side of each water bottle cage, and reflective tape on my fenders. During the day I have a Magicshine on SOS and a Dinotte 140L taillight on flash. At night, I put those on high, and add a blinky to my left side. I also always have a PB Superflash on the back of my helmet on flash.

    If you're riding in heavy traffic, I've also found a helmet mounted light (Dinotte 200L or Fenix L2D Premium Q5) and Airzounds horn indispensible. With that, I could look at a driver and get their attention with the light. If that failed, I also had the Airzounds to use.

    Fortunately, I've never been hit in close to 10,000 commuting miles in the past 5 years.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    You are lucky.No I AM SMART AND CAREFUL

    I just have terrible luck apparently.No you are doing things wrong I have not been in the wrong with any of my accidents. I am a super cautious/defensive commuter The evidence indicates otherwiseand there are some things I obviously cannot control.Not at all true

    Your attitude needs adjustment.

    You have total control over what you do do where you ride and what risks you take. You choices and desicions are totally your responsiblity.

    You need to reevaluate your riding, your routes, and the risks you take.

  16. #16
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    Thanks guys.

    The knee is doing surprisingly well. Only sore to the touch, but doesnt effect walking, sitting, etc.

    My hand is probably the most painful and inconvenient injury from this accident. I cant close my fist still so grabbing anything with my left hand is kind of out of the question. It is also still pretty swollen.

    I am laying off road riding for sure. Especially for commuting. Unfortunately there really isn't much of a route I could take to avoid traffic because I work downtown Santa Cruz. I am getting married in May and I would really like to be around for that. =]

    I am just running lights front and back and wearing a white reflective helmet.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Your attitude needs adjustment.

    You have total control over what you do do where you ride and what risks you take. You choices and desicions are totally your responsiblity.

    You need to reevaluate your riding, your routes, and the risks you take.

    I don't know what your deal is or why you are pointing at me being the problem here.

    I got hit by a car. I was not ruled at fault by witnesses and the police who wrote the report. I was riding in a bike lane on a straight road when I was hit by a car from the side (out of my peripheral view when I was looking straight ahead of me).

    Use spell check and lay off man.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Your attitude needs adjustment.

    You have total control over what you do do where you ride and what risks you take. You choices and desicions are totally your responsiblity.

    You need to reevaluate your riding, your routes, and the risks you take.
    Seriously? So YOU can control the behaviour of others at all time while maintaining 360 degrees of vision and riding a bicycle? I am impressed.

    As a careful and responsible rider, I can honestly say that NOTHING short of taking transit or walking would have prevented the 2 accidents I have had in the last couple of years. In each case, a driver unpredictably and suddenly acted against common sense and the rules of the road while right next to me. When each car hit me, I was in a bike lane, following the rules, and aware of their presence. I saw the accident coming on both occasions (car suddenly turns into me, despite being aware of my presence), but had no time to react. Clearly I am in insufficient control of myself and others....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    I don't know what your deal is or why you are pointing at me being the problem here.

    I got hit by a car. I was not ruled at fault by witnesses and the police who wrote the report. I was riding in a bike lane on a straight road when I was hit by a car from the side (out of my peripheral view when I was looking straight ahead of me).

    Use spell check and lay off man.


    And best wishes with the healing.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    You are lucky.

    I just have terrible luck apparently. I have not been in the wrong with any of my accidents. I am a super cautious/defensive commuter and there are some things I obviously cannot control.
    I have know idea what you are doing or not doing, but 'fault' or 'right/wrong' isn't comprehensive enough. People wreck cars all the time, but the risk is more financial than physical. On bikes, injury raises the level of concern beyond financial.

    Personally, I wouldn't commute if I had to ride high traffic roads ... with or without adequate bike lanes.
    Last edited by [email protected]; 01-13-2010 at 11:56 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilScience
    Seriously? So YOU can control the behaviour of others at all time while maintaining 360 degrees of vision and riding a bicycle? I am impressed. Of course not idiot, I control my behavior, and I eliminate most if not all risk of from poor behavior on their part.

    As a careful and responsible rider, I can honestly say that NOTHING short of taking transit or walking Peoplr get hit walking and need to be careful as wellwould have prevented the 2 accidents I have had in the last couple of years.Total BS you always have choices In each case, a driver unpredictably and suddenly acted against common sense and the rules of the road while right next to me. When each car hit me, I was in a bike lane, following the rulesfollowing rules may or maynot be the safest thing to do, and aware of their presence. I saw the accident coming on both occasions (car suddenly turns into me, despite being aware of my presence), but had no time to react. Clearly I am in insufficient control of myself and others.Absolutley correct...
    The time and the place may have appeared safe, and correct, however changing the time and the place are always possible, and so is changing what you were doing.

    The attitude that I am doing everything right and I just got unlucky ain't going prevent or solve any problems.

    Safety is all about taking responsibility.

    There are many legal places I won't ride that others do....

    There are a few places where I take some risks...with the behaviour of others...

    I take actions to reduce the likelyhood of those people making bad decisions, and not paying attention, and causing me harm.

    If or when I get hit, the other person will likely be more at fault than me as in your cases, however my attitude will be far different than yours...and so far it is working a little better for me than you.

  22. #22
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    I agree with jeffscott.
    In this video, you can clearly see that the pedestrian was not taking responsibility and making bad decisions.

    /sarcasm
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  23. #23
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    Honestly... ahh I give up

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Holy Crap!

  25. #25
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    To the OP - Heal up fast man sorry to hear your bad luck

  26. #26
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    Joshed - get well and get back on the bike. One thing that jeffscott said was that you might want to rethink your route (I know nothing of your area, but there might be ways to use less-travelled or slower-travelled roads). Not that it makes it your fault for getting run over in a marked bike lane; I hope you have a lawyer on that.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    The time and the place may have appeared safe, and correct, however changing the time and the place are always possible, and so is changing what you were doing. I can see into the future and avoid all problems by altering my time and place.

    The attitude that I am doing everything right and I just got unlucky ain't going prevent or solve any problems.although I can alter the space/time continuum, I struggle with certain components of the English language

    Safety is all about taking responsibility. So is grammar.

    There are many legal places I won't ride that others do....handrails, north shore, crankworx festival...

    There are a few places where I take some risks...with the behaviour of others...gay bar?

    I take actions to reduce the likelyhood of those people making bad decisions, and not paying attention, and causing me harm.Show up in your lycra?

    If or when I get hit, the other person will likely be more at fault than me as in your cases, however my attitude will be far different than yours...and so far it is working a little better for me than you.so can I have your road bikes, since you're not going to need them anymore?
    I kid, I kid. Or should I say I'm just Joshing with you.
    You bring up good safety points that we all should consider. I just don't get the impression that Josh is as ignorant and un-safety conscious as you seem to think. Sure, he could have done things to prevent an accident. Are you saying that you couldn't do even more for your safety?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  28. #28
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    Joshed - Take heed of these tips.
    I think we can all learn something!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    I kid, I kid. Or should I say I'm just Joshing with you.
    You bring up good safety points that we all should consider. I just don't get the impression that Josh is as ignorant and un-safety conscious as you seem to think. Sure, he could have done things to prevent an accident. Are you saying that you couldn't do even more for your safety?

    Haha... Well put.

    Can't we all just get along?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    I kid, I kid. Or should I say I'm just Joshing with you.
    You bring up good safety points that we all should consider. I just don't get the impression that Josh is as ignorant and un-safety conscious as you seem to think. Sure, he could have done things to prevent an accident. Are you saying that you couldn't do even more for your safety?

    O course we can all do more for our safety....we all balance risk vs safety everyday.

    Retreating to a postion Geez i am doing everything right, and I am just unlucky...

    IS FENING RIDUCULOUS.

    Getting hit three times in a short period of time is what he says happens...

    I say his he needs an safety attitude tune-up.

    The sarcasm you present above is part of the problem...

    So lets take one small thing you can do to improve other peoples behavoir in the hopes of avoiding an impact....try this it really works.

    Next time a car is coming up behind you to pass you, turn your head and take a look at the driver just to make sure he is watching (hopefully he is)...when you do this wobble on your bike and swerve a bit into his way, then move over out of the way....that driver will assume you are having trouble and most often will swerve a bit out of the way.

    Then another time a car comes up behind you to pass you, don't look, just pedal in a very straight smooth manner, and appear very much in control, drivers will assume you are in control and stay in their lane and give you aminimum of room.

    Try this out it really works well....

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by gumper
    Not that it makes it your fault for getting run over in a marked bike lane; I hope you have a lawyer on that.
    ...yea? Do you at least get med bills payed? ...a new bike?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott

    So lets take one small thing you can do to improve other peoples behavoir in the hopes of avoiding an impact....try this it really works.

    Next time a car is coming up behind you to pass you, turn your head and take a look at the driver just to make sure he is watching (hopefully he is)...when you do this wobble on your bike and swerve a bit into his way, then move over out of the way....that driver will assume you are having trouble and most often will swerve a bit out of the way.

    Then another time a car comes up behind you to pass you, don't look, just pedal in a very straight smooth manner, and appear very much in control, drivers will assume you are in control and stay in their lane and give you aminimum of room.

    Try this out it really works well....

    Well of course any driver with a brain is going to get further away from someone who doesn't know how to keep their bike upright and in a straight line. But they're not "assuming you have trouble"...they are assuming that you are another idiot who shouldn't be on the road because you aren't looking where you are going and can't turn your head while maintaining a straight line...at least that's what I'd think if you did that to me.

    In my opinion, doing that would be the opposite of safety. Trying to trick a driver into swerving further out of their lane by pretending to be out of control?

    My take is that being predictable and visible is the absolute best way to avoid a dangerous situation. If you are consistant and obvious, you are less likely to have an accident with anyone who knows how to drive a car. I commuted for two years in LA county before I went rural...and down there the big issue was people in cars being pissed because the guy on the bike wasn't riding as far to the right as possible...in the "car door zone" of the cars parked on the right. I stayed just out of the car door zone, which left a questionably small amount of room in the lane I was in for a car to pass. Of course 90% of people in cars felt like they had every right in the world to squirt by me in that lane, and it was my fault for being too far to the left if we had a close encounter. I got yelled at, etc...but I never had a close encounter. This is because I was visible and predictable. People don't drive their cars into people on bikes on purpose. As annoying as it was that I was partially in 'their' lane, no one came close to hitting me. This is not because I was acting drunk to scare them away, it is because common sense told them exactly where I was going to be next. If that means they had to wait to pass, as irritating as that was to them, that's what they did. Because they were actually people with brains, not morons who had to be tricked into staying away from me.

    Now I commute on a rural two lane highway, with practically no bike lane, in the dark. I have blinky lights and reflectors everywhere, and I ride the white line all the way into town, and I've never had a close encounter. Some folks get all the way out in the other lane, some folks don't...but the safest thing that I can do is to be predictable and visible. If I start bobbing and weaving to scare them away, tomorrow I'll get a tin of Skoal chucked at my head... becuase I see the same 10 rednecks and 15 small town folks every single day, and right now they have a certain amount of respect for me. Trying to "Improve their behavior" is a public relations nightmare, any way you slice it.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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    (no excuse for that either)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    O course we can all do more for our safety....we all balance risk vs safety everyday.

    Retreating to a postion Geez i am doing everything right, and I am just unlucky...

    IS FENING RIDUCULOUS.

    Getting hit three times in a short period of time is what he says happens...

    I say his he needs an safety attitude tune-up.

    The sarcasm you present above is part of the problem...

    So lets take one small thing you can do to improve other peoples behavoir in the hopes of avoiding an impact....try this it really works.

    Next time a car is coming up behind you to pass you, turn your head and take a look at the driver just to make sure he is watching (hopefully he is)...when you do this wobble on your bike and swerve a bit into his way, then move over out of the way....that driver will assume you are having trouble and most often will swerve a bit out of the way.

    Then another time a car comes up behind you to pass you, don't look, just pedal in a very straight smooth manner, and appear very much in control, drivers will assume you are in control and stay in their lane and give you aminimum of room.

    Try this out it really works well....
    No no, according to a study you should wear a wig of nice long hair, blonde perhaps stands out best. Be sure to wink at Buck in his pickup when u guys meet at the red light.

    As far as controlling traffic.. it perhaps isn't working for some because they don't have on their tin-foil hats... the hat is essential to effective transmission of mind-control brain waves.
    Last edited by electrik; 01-13-2010 at 07:11 PM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Joshed - Take heed of these tips.
    I think we can all learn something!
    Highdell where do you get this stuff?? Thanks for the "education" - and nightmares - today!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Ouch...very preventable though.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    O course we can all do more for our safety....we all balance risk vs safety everyday.

    Retreating to a postion Geez i am doing everything right, and I am just unlucky...

    IS FENING RIDUCULOUS.

    Getting hit three times in a short period of time is what he says happens...

    I say his he needs an safety attitude tune-up.

    The sarcasm you present above is part of the problem...

    So lets take one small thing you can do to improve other peoples behavoir in the hopes of avoiding an impact....try this it really works.

    Next time a car is coming up behind you to pass you, turn your head and take a look at the driver just to make sure he is watching (hopefully he is)...when you do this wobble on your bike and swerve a bit into his way, then move over out of the way....that driver will assume you are having trouble and most often will swerve a bit out of the way.

    Then another time a car comes up behind you to pass you, don't look, just pedal in a very straight smooth manner, and appear very much in control, drivers will assume you are in control and stay in their lane and give you aminimum of room.

    Try this out it really works well....

    So the safest thing to do is to swerve a bit into traffic to ensure that the driver is paying attention? I just want to make sure I read this correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Your no longer a virgin... and your ass hurts?
    I think you're doing something wrong there

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    The time and the place may have appeared safe, and correct, however changing the time and the place are always possible, and so is changing what you were doing.

    The attitude that I am doing everything right and I just got unlucky ain't going prevent or solve any problems.

    Safety is all about taking responsibility.

    There are many legal places I won't ride that others do....

    There are a few places where I take some risks...with the behaviour of others...

    I take actions to reduce the likelyhood of those people making bad decisions, and not paying attention, and causing me harm.

    If or when I get hit, the other person will likely be more at fault than me as in your cases, however my attitude will be far different than yours...and so far it is working a little better for me than you.
    I am glad that it is working well for you (much like your very odd suggestion of wobbling towards cars - here in Toronto this will get you hit, intentionally targeted by angry drivers, or still just ignored). Regarding the rules of the road - a recent and comprehensive study in Toronto showed that ignoring them clearly leads to more accidents. Also, in an urban center, commuting to an ~8-6 job, there are limited times of day during which I can travel (all of which fall into wither the 7:30-9:30 morning or 3:30-7:00 evening rush hours. Similarly, there are limited routes, all full of traffic. You have a choice between a bike lane enabled road, or pushing between parked cars, trafic and streetcars... I do take the best and safest route, and travel at the best times, am visible and aware of my surroundings.

    HOWEVER - accidents, by their very nature (by definition, they are unexpected events), are preventable only to a certain degree. I would posit that you are simply more lucky than I, but that your number will eventually come up.

    However - let us take the one accident of mine. I am in the bike lane on a regular 40 km/h speed limit 2 lane road. Driver approaches from behind (note full lane of traffic next to me), draws level (more or less, since I am moving at an equal pace with rush hour trafic). Does not indicate, but pulls right into me as we cross an intersection. Her statement to police later indicated that she saw me (bright orange bike, daylight, etc), but did not think she had to yield to me. I had no warning of her turning, although I did smack the car with my fist as she drove into me. She continued and pushed me through the curb and over. I suppose I could attempt to cross the intersection when there was no car in the next lane, but with a steady stream of traffic, this is effectively impossible to acheive. Please, use your vast wisdom to inform me how this was my fault or preventable...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by less_than_aaron
    So the safest thing to do is to swerve a bit into traffic to ensure that the driver is paying attention? I just want to make sure I read this correctly.

    Apparently this works wherever jeffscott is from, but would certainly get you killed, honked at, or buzzed by most Toronto drivers (assuming they even notice you). If you need more room, ride further into the road to start with. Weaving back and forth is a recipe for disaster.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilScience
    ...
    However - let us take the one accident of mine. I am in the bike lane on a regular 40 km/h speed limit 2 lane road. Driver approaches from behind (note full lane of traffic next to me), draws level (more or less, since I am moving at an equal pace with rush hour trafic). Does not indicate, but pulls right into me as we cross an intersection. Her statement to police later indicated that she saw me (bright orange bike, daylight, etc), but did not think she had to yield to me. I had no warning of her turning, although I did smack the car with my fist as she drove into me. She continued and pushed me through the curb and over. I suppose I could attempt to cross the intersection when there was no car in the next lane, but with a steady stream of traffic, this is effectively impossible to acheive. Please, use your vast wisdom to inform me how this was my fault or preventable...

    This sounds preventable. You should have swerved into her to make sure she was paying attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Your no longer a virgin... and your ass hurts?
    I think you're doing something wrong there

  40. #40
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    Facebook is to blame for this. Get your lawyer ready!!

  41. #41
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    I hope you heal up quick!
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Your no longer a virgin... and your ass hurts?
    I think you're doing something wrong there

  42. #42
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    Thanks everyone else.

    jeffscott, wow. Just wow. Glad that works for you, but like other have said, that's basically the opposite of riding safe. Your 'logic' is shocking to me. I am glad you haven't been hit and really hope it stays that way because getting hit is not fun in any way. Seriously, take it from me.

    I take responsibilities for my actions. I realize I chose to ride on a road that has car traffic, in a separate well marked bike lane (3+ feet wide), etc. That was a 'risk' I took when I decided I wanted to commute on my bike to work to save money spent on gas, improve my health, and fitness. It is the safest route to get to my work. I choose not to ride on the sidewalks because it is illegal for bikes to do here and I don't want to risk other pedestrians safety by doing so.

    I guess I could have avoided these accidents by not riding my bike to work or breaking the law by riding on the sidewalks. There really is no point arguing on what I could have done to avoid getting hit by cars since it already happened.

    The only way I can guarantee I wont get hit by a car on my bike (since safely riding in designated bike lanes, following the laws, riding defensive, etc didn't work) is to just not ride to work. I cannot control what happens around me or what other people do. Riding to work is the only 'risk' I decided to take. That was my choice. But I did not choose to get hit by cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    O course we can all do more for our safety....we all balance risk vs safety everyday.

    Retreating to a postion Geez i am doing everything right, and I am just unlucky...

    IS FENING RIDUCULOUS.

    Getting hit three times in a short period of time is what he says happens...

    I say his he needs an safety attitude tune-up.

    The sarcasm you present above is part of the problem...

    So lets take one small thing you can do to improve other peoples behavoir in the hopes of avoiding an impact....try this it really works.

    Next time a car is coming up behind you to pass you, turn your head and take a look at the driver just to make sure he is watching (hopefully he is)...when you do this wobble on your bike and swerve a bit into his way, then move over out of the way....that driver will assume you are having trouble and most often will swerve a bit out of the way.

    Then another time a car comes up behind you to pass you, don't look, just pedal in a very straight smooth manner, and appear very much in control, drivers will assume you are in control and stay in their lane and give you aminimum of room.

    Try this out it really works well....

  43. #43
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    Godspeed and heal quickly. If you can not think of anything to decrease your risk while commuting to work, then it looks like not commuting to work is your only choice.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    Well of course any driver with a brain is going to get further away from someone who doesn't know how to keep their bike upright and in a straight line. But they're not "assuming you have trouble"...they are assuming that you are another idiot who shouldn't be on the road because you aren't looking where you are going and can't turn your head while maintaining a straight line...at least that's what I'd think if you did that to me. It works well try it

    In my opinion, doing that would be the opposite of safety. Trying to trick a driver into swerving further out of their lane by pretending to be out of control? BS if you need a bit more space than the drivers are giving you it works.

    My take is that being predictable and visible is the absolute best way to avoid a dangerous situation.Crock of **** that ain't going to work if someone is trying to hit you If you are consistant and obvious, you are less likely to have an accident with anyone who knows how to drive a car. I commuted for two years in LA county before I went rural...and down there the big issue was people in cars being pissed because the guy on the bike wasn't riding as far to the right as possible...in the "car door zone" of the cars parked on the right. I stayed just out of the car door zone, which left a questionably small amount of room in the lane I was in for a car to pass. Of course 90% of people in cars felt like they had every right in the world to squirt by me in that lane, and it was my fault for being too far to the left if we had a close encounter. I got yelled at, etc...but I never had a close encounter. This is because I was visible and predictable. People don't drive their cars into people on bikes on purpose. As annoying as it was that I was partially in 'their' lane, no one came close to hitting me. This is not because I was acting drunk to scare them away, it is because common sense told them exactly where I was going to be next. If that means they had to wait to pass, as irritating as that was to them, that's what they did. Because they were actually people with brains, not morons who had to be tricked into staying away from me. If it was working go for it I ride my bike lane car park lane a little differently and it works too

    Now I commute on a rural two lane highway, with practically no bike lane, in the dark. I have blinky lights and reflectors everywhere, and I ride the white line all the way into town, and I've never had a close encounter.You son't know that Some one on a cell could have looked up just in time and avoided you and you wouldn't know squat Some folks get all the way out in the other lane, some folks don't...but the safest thing that I can do is to be predictable and visible. If I start bobbing and weaving to scare them away, tomorrow I'll get a tin of Skoal chucked at my head... becuase I see the same 10 rednecks and 15 small town folks every single day, and right now they have a certain amount of respect for me.You is that what I said to do not even close, as you look back at the car veer out a bit and wobble grab a brain here and open your very closed mind Trying to "Improve their behavior" is a public relations nightmare, any way you slice it.
    Changing others behavoir is the point I was making it works and can be useful. Since you don't try things like that you have know idea how it can be used to sucess...

    Nose down, ass up in a straight line as predictable as possible is not always the right thing to do.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    Thanks everyone else.

    jeffscott, wow. Just wow.Yup, if your my kid I am telling you to smarten up pay attention and be careful Glad that works for you, but like other have said, that's basically the opposite of riding safe. Your 'logic' is shocking to me. I am glad you haven't been hit and really hope it stays that way because getting hit is not fun in any way. Seriously, take it from me.

    I take responsibilities for my actions. I realize I chose to ride on a road that has car traffic, in a separate well marked bike lane (3+ feet wide), etc. That was a 'risk' I took when I decided I wanted to commute on my bike to work to save money spent on gas, improve my health, and fitness. It is the safest route to get to my work. I choose not to ride on the sidewalks because it is illegal for bikes to do here and I don't want to risk other pedestrians safety by doing so.Still need that safety attitude adjustment there is no question that there were many other risks you take on every ride,,, you just like to simplify things so you can feel better

    I guess I could have avoided these accidents by not riding my bike to work or breaking the law by riding on the sidewalks. There really is no point arguing on what I could have done to avoid getting hit by cars since it already happened. No not true discussing and analyzing previous accidents is perhaps the best way to avoid future accidents

    The only way I can guarantee I wont get hit by a car on my bike (since safely riding in designated bike lanes, following the laws, riding defensive, etc didn't work) is to just not ride to work. Who daid anything about guarantees, just better risk managementI cannot control what happens around me or what other people do.Total BS Riding to work is the only 'risk' I decided to take.Total BS That was my choice. But I did not choose to get hit by cars.
    In the end every accicent has many contributing factors, listing them all is important.

    Your attitude is one of the contributing factors, you fail to admit or realize any of your contributions at all...

    Again smarten up, pay attention, and be careful, or your going have another accident, either walking, driving, or on transit, since you said somewhere no more road bikes.

  46. #46
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    The average driver is a complete [email protected] I mean seriously, we're spending billions on this "war on terror" to avenge a mere 3,000 or so people, when our own citizens have run down a little over 300,000 red blooded Americans since that day. That all being said, I think this thread might shed some light on why you've been hit three times in a town with bike lanes. Seriously Joshed, light yourself up like a rave tent and Burning Man.
    Hey Butthead, are we gonna die? - Beavis

  47. #47
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    The average driver is a complete [email protected] I mean seriously, they drive by knowing full well that I am trapped inside this fence. -- Dogbrain

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Crock of **** that ain't going to work if someone is trying to hit you
    I didn't realize that the people in cars were trying to hit me. This will revolutionize my entire outlook, thank you.

    If it was working go for it I ride my bike lane car park lane a little differently and it works too
    You ride your bike lane car park lane a little differently? What? Are you SURE you've never been hit by a car?

    You is that what I said to do not even close, as you look back at the car veer out a bit and wobble grab a brain here and open your very closed mind
    My bad. You said to look back and then veer into traffic, not to look back and veer into traffic. What was I thinking? I'll give this a shot right after work.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  49. #49
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    Hope you were lit up like a chinese church

    Ive found that if my ligths arent bright enough hurt there beady little cager eyes they are going to do some dumb shlt stuff.

  50. #50
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    jeffscot you're doing more damage to the OP with your annoying meaningless suggestions than the car that hit him.

    Get well soon so you don't miss your wedding joshed.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Your attitude needs adjustment.

    You have total control over what you do do where you ride and what risks you take. You choices and desicions are totally your responsiblity.

    You need to reevaluate your riding, your routes, and the risks you take.
    You have no clue where he rides, do you? Have you commuted much where he lives? I thought not. So do you have any idea what you are talking about? Thought not. Just because you have not been hit in 5 years in wherever you live does not mean that people do not get hit, and luck of the draw will have some hit more than others. Yes, safety is about personal responsibility, but that does not mean you don't get whacked even doing everything you can to stay safe short of simply not commuting. Sounds like in his case, staying off the road is the answer, and he has indicated he is not going to ride on the road there.

    Sorry, but if you spend a lot of time on the road, you can do everything right, but in the end it is luck that will have a lot to do with whether you get hit. I know you would rather just be smug and think that since you have not been hit that you are somehow a safer rider than they are. I hate to burst you bubble, but you are most likely not.

    OP: Get better soon and don't bother wasting time with this guy. He is acting like a troll in this thread.

  52. #52
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    Thanks everyone. I appreciate the meaningful responses.

    I am healing up great. My knee has less and less pain daily and my finger still has some healing to do. Nowhere close to being able to make a fist yet. Maybe in a few weeks I can get back onto my mtb again.

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    Buddy, get a side mirror. This evening coming back from work. An idiotic van driver driving without care and swerve into my lane from behind. Luckily , I have full awareness from front to back and spot this idiot action from my mirror. I managed to turn my bike quick enough to avoid his swerve.

    Side mirror may decrease your aerodynamic,ugly yr bike and make u look uncool. But when comes to commuting, nothing comes first than safety, right?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimano4
    Buddy, get a side mirror. This evening coming back from work. An idiotic van driver driving without care and swerve into my lane from behind. Luckily , I have full awareness from front to back and spot this idiot action from my mirror. I managed to turn my bike quick enough to avoid his swerve.

    Side mirror may decrease your aerodynamic,ugly yr bike and make u look uncool. But when comes to commuting, nothing comes first than safety, right?
    Not a bad idea. I am not opposed to riding with a mirror. In fact I think that is a great suggestion.

    Much better then looking backwards, swerving around so people think you are drunk and don't think it is safe to drive near you. More than likely resulting in you getting pulled over for a BUI in my town.

  55. #55
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    Joshed, hope you heel up quick, and don't give up riding, just give in to the dork side! Get a mirror, a brightly colored reflective jacket, put a light on your helmet, get a orange flag on a stick! I too have been hit three different times, and while each time was undoubtedly the drivers fault, I too was at fault for choosing to ride on a busy street without a mirror, not wearing reflective material at night and not making eye contact with drivers. Now, I'm not saying that you did anything wrong, but there are certainly some choices riders can make to improve their odds. Anyway, get better and get back on that horse!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    jeffscot you're doing more damage to the OP with your annoying meaningless suggestions than the car that hit him.

    Get well soon so you don't miss your wedding joshed.
    Let me insert a wish here that jeffscot gets well, too.

  57. #57
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    Hey Joshed, glad to hear you are healing up some, I'm sure that first MTB ride will feel good when your hand is up to it...and at least the 2 ton rocks out there tend to stay put!


    I fear that Jeffscott is asking for bad "carma" here.

  58. #58
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    the problem is that you have no engine are way smaller then a car. one must take extraordinary care with ones safety. you just cant assume that cars are going to be where they should be. even if the law actually would say that all car drivers will be killed if they touch a cyclist. if you die that law didnt help you then. i grew up beside a very very very busy road. learned how to ride my first 2 wheeler there. even at those ages i never got hit by a car. how one might ask? because a car would kill me.....
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Look retard ..
    Is this what they mean by the pot calling the kettle black?
    Dude, get over yourself, seriously.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Look retard....

    Well, I do wear a helmet everywhere and swerve into traffic
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  62. #62
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    i really dont know anything about the OP or how these 3 accidents happened and all. get well and all that.

    but to the rest of the roadies out there: Listen your on a bicycle. you are much much smaller than even the smallest hatch back. its the equivalent of trying to wrestle with a elephant. i know you may feel that motorists are stupid and your right! but thats my point.
    yes bicycles have the right away in most cases. but remember your on a bicycle. the senior citizen that cant remember which pedal to use. or that guy that has 22 dwi's lost his license and now is driving to the liquor store. or that new teen driver. or that person on the cell texting. or the ******* that hates bicyclist. is also on that same road as you.

    like that vid above shot from a bus. even in my 1ton truck i always look before i enter a intersection. ive been t boned before. ouch. and we all know not all bicyclist are nice riders. but my point i made before was that if children can ride around portland oregon and not get hit. then why cant adults? im not saying its impossible to get hit, accidents happen. all those suspects i mentioned above are just the tip of the iceberg.
    90% of the roadies ive seen on the road in busy traffic are taking risks that if they fail they loose. im sure there are some that take those risks because its a thrill.

    roadies need to look at the whole picture. yea you have the right a way. but what does that mean to a drunk?
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  63. #63
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    Roadies? What about MTBers and BMXers on their way to work?
    Recalculating....

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    Roadies? What about MTBers and BMXers on their way to work?
    their the ones in the cars hitting roadies :P
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogod
    their the ones in the cars hitting roadies :P
    awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodember
    This would make a great signature.

  66. #66
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    Factsheet for Nat'l Hiway Transportation Safety Administration for '08 on "pedalcyclist" accident data. Highlights of things associated with cyclist fatalities:
    • urban cycling
    • intersections
    • rush hour/darkness 5-9 p.m.
    • being <16 years old
    • alcohol involved (biker or driver) in 37% of crashes resulting in cyclist fatalities
    • alcohol, biker >.08% (23% of cyclist fatalities)
    • Delaware & Florida (most fatalities/million population)

      In 2007, FL again very dangerous, , but Del had 0 fatalities & was replaced by LA
      in the top 2


    See the report for many were killed in your state (whew - VT 0) & more details.

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811156.PDF

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer
    That`s interresting, although some parts I don`t understand what they`re saying and some parts I wish they had broken things down differently. It`s too bad there isn`t an accurate way to measure accident rates in relation to how many riders are in each area/group.

    This one really gets me:
    "In 1998, the average age of pedalcyclists killed in traffic crashes was 32; in 2008 the
    average age of those killed was 41. "
    What, are we Generation Stupid or something?
    Recalculating....

  68. #68
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    damn im 41 i think ill stop riding around town before i do something stupid :P

    and joshed i have a question: does your riding gear look like a target?

    and i reread my first post i didnt really mean it to sound that i was criticizing you. sorry about that
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  69. #69
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    At least you survived getting hit 3 times!

    I was born and raised in Portland, and although Portland is doing a great job in setting the standard in America for bicycle awareness, it's still a busy city where everyone is caught up in the rat race (plus the weather sucks most of the year!). About 15 years ago my wife and I decided to find a place where we could safely and happily raise a family, and be able to walk or ride safely to work, school, the market, downtown, etc. We try to make work fit with how we want to live, instead of how we live around work. So far, so good.

    I'm in no way suggesting that this is the way it should be for everyone, or even many, but it worked for us and it could work for others as well. Plus, I still have close calls even though traffic where I live is really light, and we have many trails. Drivers are gonna be good and bad wherever you go.

    There are often deep rooted reasons for the places you live, and work and family are usually at the top of that list, but for me, a more relaxed pace in a small community for my family is one of my highest priorities.

    Keep getting better. Bad things happen in threes, right?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogod
    and joshed i have a question: does your riding gear look like a target?

    and i reread my first post i didnt really mean it to sound that i was criticizing you. sorry about that
    No worries.

    I got this shirt for Christmas. It didn't help.


  71. #71
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    joshed, glad you're feeling better, get better all the way. Sounds like a RUN of bad luck....

    Don't worry about jeffscott, he's just trying to describe how to ride on his planet (Uranus).

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    No worries.

    I got this shirt for Christmas. It didn't help.

    the shirt isn't helping cause it's printed on the front, you need it on the back
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodember
    This would make a great signature.

  73. #73
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    lol
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    No worries.

    I got this shirt for Christmas. It didn't help.

    Youch! I just skimmed the thread. Get well soon. Did the driver who ended up in the bike lane say anything? Drunk? Distracted? Lost control?

    There's not much you can do about drunk or lost control, but if distracted, then maybe a brighter light would help, like a Dinotte taillight.

    For what it's worth, over on RBR they had a link to a government site that compared fatalities. Biking is as safe as driving, but that's hour for hour, not mile for mile.
    To the troll mobile, away...

  75. #75
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    i almost hit a guy on a bike last night. here is a cut/paste post i posted on a local san diego forum

    Quote Originally Posted by me on another forum
    tonight at 6:45 i almost rear ended a cyclist while driving my car. first time i almost hit someone on a bike.

    i was driving on camino del rio going east right here
    click me for map
    it was raining really bad, i was driving about 25mph (speed limit is 35) as i come around the turn i notice a very dim blinking light about 30' infront of me. it was a guy on a hybrid bike wearing all black, riding a black bike, no reflectors going 5mph in the middle of the lane.

    now being a cyclist i understand taking a lane and all that, but the bike lane there is about 6' wide and i didn't notice anything to keep him from riding in the bike lane.
    so anyway i drove behind him at 5mph till we got to the bridge then he pulled over a little and waved me on. giving an extra "thank you" wave.

    i was shaking for about 5 mins cause i almost ran this dude over.

    so please guys, if you are gonna ride at night make sure your lights are bright and your clothes are not black.
    especially if you are going to be taking the lane. if i was going the speed limit i probably would have hit the guy.

    i have no idea why he wasn't in the bike lane, he must have seen something i didn't.
    not saying you have to ride in the bike lane

    be safe out there
    all this guy needed was some brighter clothes or a better light. his light was so dim i could barely see it flashing when i was driving 5mph behind him.

    you can see on the map that the bike lane is wider than the car lane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodember
    This would make a great signature.

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    As a member of the "never been hit" club, I must say I find having a mirror an absolute necessity. Also a rear flashing light, reflectors, etc...We are not allowed to ride sidewalks here, but it is highly tolerated. I use them if there are no bike lanes and would otherwise be forced into either using up a car lane or riding along parked cars. I am very curteous to pedestrians, and never had one say anything to me. I ride assuming no one sees me and NEVER EVER use up a car lane. That is the best way to ask for trouble IMHO.....

    Just a little question, you never mention what the driver had to say about it, and if it was dark??Did he even see you?Why did he suddenly turn?Just curious. Good luck.

  77. #77
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    If I was hit three times in a brief period I would figure out what I could do to prevent it from happening in the future. Chaulking it up to bad luck or poor drivers wouldn't work for me. Heal up quick and get back out there Joshed.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by damrtn
    I ride assuming no one sees me and NEVER EVER use up a car lane. That is the best way to ask for trouble IMHO.....
    Sometimes taking up "the car lane" (which legally isn't only for cars) is BY FAR the safest thing to do.

  79. #79
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    As a member of "I've been hit 3+ times club" I can say to all you pompous asses out there, It can and does happen to people who have the utmost guard.
    My latest was a dooring by a bimmer [email protected]( bent the fukker to the wheel well )
    Before that, I have been right-hooked and t-boned by drivers exiting/entering roads/driveways.
    I was visible and there was NOTHING I would have changed to make the situation different.
    Oh yeah, in all of my cases, the driver was never charged.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    As a member of "I've been hit 3+ times club" I can say to all you pompous asses out there, It can and does happen to people who have the utmost guard.
    My latest was a dooring by a bimmer [email protected]( bent the fukker to the wheel well )
    Before that, I have been right-hooked and t-boned by drivers exiting/entering roads/driveways.
    I was visible and there was NOTHING I would have changed to make the situation different.
    Oh yeah, in all of my cases, the driver was never charged.
    Sorry to hear that this club has so many members - glad you lived to tell the tale & are able to pedal on. Any luck with getting bike or body injuries paid for in the incidents? I think there is some weird pyschology going on here with the pompous commenters, like they have to feel they are invincable in order to ride - but none of us are.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostQuick
    Sometimes taking up "the car lane" (which legally isn't only for cars) is BY FAR the safest thing to do.
    Here anyone doing that gets the "honk treatment" ie they ride your a$$ holding the horn until you move...and if you don't, they will pass you with an inch beside them.

    And just cause i never got hit doesn't mean i think i'm invincible. I was just giving my input on what I think is safer.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    As a member of "I've been hit 3+ times club" I can say to all you pompous asses out there, It can and does happen to people who have the utmost guard.
    My latest was a dooring by a bimmer [email protected]( bent the fukker to the wheel well )
    Before that, I have been right-hooked and t-boned by drivers exiting/entering roads/driveways.
    I was visible and there was NOTHING I would have changed to make the situation different.
    Oh yeah, in all of my cases, the driver was never charged.

    The right hook is the most aggravating to me. They obviously see you, but are in too much of a hurry to wait the 3 seconds it takes for you cross the road/driveway.

  83. #83
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    I'm not sure why, but some people think any light front and rear will be enough to be visible. I see cyclists out nearly every night and most often, they have weak, barely visible blinkies that don't grab anyone's attention. They're the kind of lights that are only noticed if I happen to be looking in their direction. They do not scream to be noticed. People - if you're going to ride at night, you need lights that scream to be noticed. I mean, lights that cannot be missed even if a person is not looking directly at them.

    That being said, you should also consider reaction time. How much time does it take the average person to see something, visually process it, and then react to it? Ans: around 1.5 seconds. How many feet does a car traveling 30 miles per hour travel in 1.5 seconds? Ans: 41 feet. A 1.5 second reaction time means if they are going to react to seeing you, you need to be noticed at least 60+ feet away. The weak blinkies I see nearly every night aren't even enough to be seen from 30 feet away. Get a light that demands to be noticed!

  84. #84
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    Josh, get well soon.

    I'm a lucky member of the "never been hit" club but I've had my share of close enough calls. I've got a 15W halogen up front and one of the brightest tail lights out there, am striped up etc. I'm fortunate that my city is fairly bike friendly, but even so, I ride like my @$$ is on the line (because it is).

    Jeffscott, not everyone has the good luck we've had...in some cities cyclists are targets in some perverted IRL version of Grand Theft Auto that occurs during the daily commute. Although I'm sure you meant well, you came across as an @$$.

    If you choose to ride on the road, don't let the opinion of others keep you from doing what you need to in order to be safe.
    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

    Moran? Let your opinion be free -> F88me

  85. #85
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    joshed - sorry to hear about the troubles. CA commuting can be dicey. Down here in L.A. I see people randomly enter the bike lanes and crowd the curb all the time.

    jeffscott, any chance you are related to Paul Shirley?

  86. #86
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    Just stumbled on this thread.
    Sorry for your troubles, and hope you're well on the way to being healed Joshed.

    Statistics predict that a few riders will be hit multiple times though they are riding very safely. It also says that a few reckless riders will never be hit. So our personal experiences mean little. To paraphrase Samuel Clemens: there are lies, d**m, lies, statistics, and personal anecdotes!

    Staying home is dangerous. Driving to work is dangerous. Walking across the street is dangerous. Getting out of the blasted bed is dangerous, ferchrisakes! Into it too, now I think about it. Anyway, doing what you like is worth the danger, isn't it? But do it as safely as you can think of doing it. Cool don't count if a car has squashed you like a bug.

    Scene of the accident of Cool-man cyclist:

    "Hey ya see dat dead bike guy under the Caddy!?

    "Yeah, don't he look cool all in black lik'at with the murdered out bike?"

    "Yeah, great look! See how he blend wi'dda wet pavement, and this fog s--t, and the burned-out street light! That safetly bling s**t woulda looked like crap!"

    I almost hit a guy almost exactly like that: Riding ninja except he had reflective side walls when he blew the stop right in front of me. Like those tires. Got me a pair.

    Totaled my first good bike commuting in college 29 years ago. Driver failed to stop at a 2-way, but faked me with the Cadillac touch and go, in spite of eye contact. She was just 17, and you know what I mean, the way she looked, she didn't see I was flyin'. Oh, how can I not hit your Newport? Oooo! When It blocks the whole d**m road? (Apologies to Sir Paul and John, MHRIP)

    Here they pull out in front of dumptrucks and semis, so we are just potential road pizzas.

    The best piece of safety equipment I have is my helmet. Not because it will keep my skull intact in a direct hit, as it likely won't. But because it has a mirror (my second best piece of safely equiment) and blinkers front and back. I am a minnow in pods of Killer Whales, oops! I mean SUVs. That's short for Semi Unguided Vehicles, in case you ever wondered. A lot of young moms on cell phones or yelling at their kids in the back seat. the rest seem to be eating or texting, sometimes reading the paper. How quaint!

    I have gone from stealthy and stylish to a VERY nerdy back to the future meets traffic flagman look, and I don't have the answer. Except maybe Professor Moody"s "Constant vigilance." That, and a good life insurance policy. I'm still the invisible cyclist. They can take my bike only when they peel my cold dead fingers off the handlebars! Carpe velocipedus! (Raised middle finger salute),

    Feel any better? (I tried.)

    If not, take two aspirin, and call me in the morning. My longer posts can do that.

    Oh, and lighten up! Life isn't a permanent condition!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Just stumbled on this thread.
    Sorry for your troubles, and hope you're well on the way to being healed Joshed.

    Statistics predict that a few riders will be hit multiple times though they are riding very safely. It also says that a few reckless riders will never be hit. So our personal experiences mean little. To paraphrase Samuel Clemens: there are lies, d**m, lies, statistics, and personal anecdotes!

    Staying home is dangerous. Driving to work is dangerous. Walking across the street is dangerous. Getting out of the blasted bed is dangerous, ferchrisakes! Into it too, now I think about it. Anyway, doing what you like is worth the danger, isn't it? But do it as safely as you can think of doing it. Cool don't count if a car has squashed you like a bug.

    Scene of the accident of Cool-man cyclist:

    "Hey ya see dat dead bike guy under the Caddy!?

    "Yeah, don't he look cool all in black lik'at with the murdered out bike?"

    "Yeah, great look! See how he blend wi'dda wet pavement, and this fog s--t, and the burned-out street light! That safetly bling s**t woulda looked like crap!"

    I almost hit a guy almost exactly like that: Riding ninja except he had reflective side walls when he blew the stop right in front of me. Like those tires. Got me a pair.

    Totaled my first good bike commuting in college 29 years ago. Driver failed to stop at a 2-way, but faked me with the Cadillac touch and go, in spite of eye contact. She was just 17, and you know what I mean, the way she looked, she didn't see I was flyin'. Oh, how can I not hit your Newport? Oooo! When It blocks the whole d**m road? (Apologies to Sir Paul and John, MHRIP)

    Here they pull out in front of dumptrucks and semis, so we are just potential road pizzas.

    The best piece of safety equipment I have is my helmet. Not because it will keep my skull intact in a direct hit, as it likely won't. But because it has a mirror (my second best piece of safely equiment) and blinkers front and back. I am a minnow in pods of Killer Whales, oops! I mean SUVs. That's short for Semi Unguided Vehicles, in case you ever wondered. A lot of young moms on cell phones or yelling at their kids in the back seat. the rest seem to be eating or texting, sometimes reading the paper. How quaint!

    I have gone from stealthy and stylish to a VERY nerdy back to the future meets traffic flagman look, and I don't have the answer. Except maybe Professor Moody"s "Constant vigilance." That, and a good life insurance policy. I'm still the invisible cyclist. They can take my bike only when they peel my cold dead fingers off the handlebars! Carpe velocipedus! (Raised middle finger salute),

    Feel any better? (I tried.)

    If not, take two aspirin, and call me in the morning. My longer posts can do that.

    Oh, and lighten up! Life isn't a permanent condition!
    you do realize your not in the stoners forum right?
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  88. #88
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    Maybe there`s still a little stoner left in me- I liked the "Dead Bike Guy" story.
    Recalculating....

  89. #89
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    Cheech and Chong did that schtick WAY better, but thanks.

    "Need to like, lighten up, man, ya know? Can ya dig it?"

    "If you remember the '60's, you weren't there." George Carlin.

  90. #90
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    This is definitely not the stoner forum. The Nor Cal forum is the stoner forum.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 May 16, 2010

  91. #91
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    btw in no way was i putting down stoners unless they be bogarts.


    "this buds for you!"
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  92. #92
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    dude jeffscott you are the most ignorant and stupidist cyclist out there. just for this post you are probably going to wind up getting hit by a car while swerving infront of them to "anounce your presence" and ending up in the hospital with a cycling career ending injury and the world will thank that car driver who hit you

  93. #93
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    Bright white flashing strobes front and rear,during the day, has eliminated all my commute problems except getting doored. At night I shine my helmet light,briefly, into the eyes of entering or left turn drivers. I used to get 3-4 near misses per commute. Now...zero.

    Jeffscott refuses to understand Santa Cruz drivers but I do press my presence into the lane, when there's little or no shoulder, and swerve to the right at the last moment for added clearance.
    .

    I may not have the best of everything, but I have the best everything that matters.

  94. #94
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    It looks like Joshed has recovered

    Wondered how he was doing & found these pics from a recent post:
    Good to see you on the trails, Joshed - and happy 25th
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I got hit by a car. Again. x3 now.-joshed.jpg  

    I got hit by a car. Again. x3 now.-joshed2.jpg  


  95. #95

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    cheese-its!

  96. #96
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    And he's worried about getting hit by cars?

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzler
    And he's worried about getting hit by cars?
    Heh heh, well at least trees stay put and don't deliberately aim for you!
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 May 16, 2010

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary the No-Trash Cougar
    Heh heh, well at least trees stay put and don't deliberately aim for you!
    i've hit moving trees snowboarding.
    they don't always stay where they are.
    or maybe i was drunk, i don't remember
    bikes:
    2002 Specialized RockHopper A1 FS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodember
    This would make a great signature.

  99. #99
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    only reason he didn't hit a tree is because he swerved towards them.
    close look at the aerial shots...

    dead horse... ah beats it!

    glad you're sorted Joshed! cheers meng!
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    The time and the place may have appeared safe, and correct, however changing the time and the place are always possible, and so is changing what you were doing.

    The attitude that I am doing everything right and I just got unlucky ain't going prevent or solve any problems.

    Safety is all about taking responsibility.

    There are many legal places I won't ride that others do....

    There are a few places where I take some risks...with the behaviour of others...

    I take actions to reduce the likelyhood of those people making bad decisions, and not paying attention, and causing me harm.

    If or when I get hit, the other person will likely be more at fault than me as in your cases, however my attitude will be far different than yours...and so far it is working a little better for me than you.
    This sounds like someone far too inexperienced to be preaching.

    Your first comment, while I disagreed with it, I didn't take much exception to. This I do.

    The way you are phrasing your argument seems to say that everyone who has been a victim is at fault. This is actually often not the case. While I agree how you react and prepare for problems does indeed have a serious effect on the outcome, **** happens quite frankly.

    I would guess you've never been completely caught off guard by something unexpected in your life. I hear from people like you a lot on the motorcycle forums...22, never been in a crash and think they are gods. All it takes is one thing to go wrong and then you'll [hopefully] swallow your pride and agree that there are victims of circumstance and that no matter how much you do sometimes bad things will and can happen.

    /end rant.

    I agree 3 times is a lot to have "bad luck" but conditions are different for ever locale and time of day. I commute in 20 mile (one way) route that is relatively safe, but most of it is on the shoulder of a 55mph posted road. If I happen to be hit while in the biking lane, I'm not sure I would have time to ponder what I did wrong...

  101. #101
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    The internet is probably the only place where an individual (not at fault) can be struck by a vehicle, skirt death, and yet still be condemned by another individual.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattybohfiend
    The internet is probably the only place where an individual (not at fault) can be struck by a vehicle, skirt death, and yet still be condemned by another individual.
    We really do not know who was at fault. Anyone who has been around internet forums knows there are a lot of drama queens looking for validation ... as well as trolls looking to tweak peoples noses.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    We really do not know who was at fault. Anyone who has been around internet forums knows there are a lot of drama queens looking for validation ... as well as trolls looking to tweak peoples noses.

    Not at all true guys.

    Even if the guy got hit three times and had zero guilt (highly unlikely), he still needs to review his choices and discisions....

    Certainly before those choices take him out of the game permanantly.

    Guy at work just got his collar bone broke by an idiot snowboarder....

    Guy was doing slow turns as he approached the lift station...idiot is going too fast and hits him....

    BTW second time Guy has been hit nearing a lift....

    Not Guy's fault, but he won't be doing slow turns as he approaches the lift anymore....

    Pay attention, smarten up and becareful, that is all that is between you and getting hit three times even if it isn't your fault.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Not at all true guys.
    Sure it is true. I am not saying anyone on this thread is right or wrong. I am saying the expectation that participation on a public forum always be 'nice' is unrealistic, and in fact sometimes shouldn't be supportive ... or nice.

    Personally, I think this particular testimony is suspicious.

  105. #105
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    yup, thanks to jeffscott he will now be zig-zagging across the slope because that makes everyone aware of where he is which as we all know is safer.
    definitely won't be making nice slow controlled turns that denote an obvious and predictable trajectory.

    and how DARE you imply jeffscott is just poaching?
    for shaaame!
    obviously a HIGHLY intelligent AND considerate person who has realized what we have not.
    that the entire road belongs to him and he can deviate his course out of the bike lane, accordingly expecting all others to acquiesce, and they always do. and we'd be fools not to follow his lead. and he's faster and smarter and his momma says he's more handsome than you too.


    whoever said the internet needs a sarcasm font is a fool I tell you, a FOOOOOOL.


    the best part of my day... is updating my buddy/ignore lists.
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts
    yup, thanks to jeffscott he will now be zig-zagging across the slope because that makes everyone aware of where he is which as we all know is safer.
    definitely won't be making nice slow controlled turns that denote an obvious and predictable trajectory.

    and how DARE you imply jeffscott is just poaching?
    for shaaame!
    obviously a HIGHLY intelligent AND considerate person who has realized what we have not.
    that the entire road belongs to him and he can deviate his course out of the bike lane, accordingly expecting all others to acquiesce, and they always do. and we'd be fools not to follow his lead. and he's faster and smarter and his momma says he's more handsome than you too.


    whoever said the internet needs a sarcasm font is a fool I tell you, a FOOOOOOL.
    Hey **** for brains the predictable slow turns got him hit twice, now he zooms along with the crowd...

    As far as getting hit three times in a very short time period, well when that happens to you I will still call you a fool.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Not at all true guys.

    Even if the guy got hit three times and had zero guilt (highly unlikely), he still needs to review his choices and discisions....

    Certainly before those choices take him out of the game permanantly..
    Guess what, he reviewed his choices and discussions. He decided not to ride on the road anymore.

    Quick question, if someone beside you is going to turn right, but doesn't have a turn-signal on, what are you going to do? Get hit, nothing you can do about it.

  108. #108
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    I got both right turned and left turned in front of me yesterday, didn't get hit either time because I was 100% aware of my surroundings and knew what was going to happen well before it happened. Both incidents involved full on braking and evasive maneuvering but I already had an escape plan worked out for when they would pull in front of me. Guess that comes from riding motorcycles for the last 20 years, but at all times I know where every car within a few hundred feet of me is and I have an escape plan for just about anything any of those cars could possibly do.

    Sure something occasionally happens that you can't possibly plan for, but 99 times out of 100 it is possible to avoid being run over for something that is completely the other persons fault.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom93R1
    Sure something occasionally happens that you can't possibly plan for, but 99 times out of 100 it is possible to avoid being run over for something that is completely the other persons fault.
    Exactly. Cry all you want about how unfair it is, but if one wants to reduce their crashes and close calls it's all up to them. Don't count on the other guy to do the right thing to keep you safe.

    Quick question, if someone beside you is going to turn right, but doesn't have a turn-signal on, what are you going to do? Get hit, nothing you can do about it.
    Too many cyclists not only allow themselves to be set up for the common "right hook", but they are then totally surprised when it happens! (and then go on to gripe about bad drivers, unsafe roads, blah, blah)

    Greatly limit the risk of this type of collision by not passing cars on the right at intersections, and by taking the lane to help prevent them from passing you, only to then make an immediate turn. (right into you!) You are right about one thing... once it's about to happen it's much harder to prevent.

    If you are getting hit often (or having lots of close calls) it's a sure sign that re-evaluation of ones riding practices is in order. That, or start preparing for the next crash.

    A couple of good resources for anyone willing to take the responsibiity of their safety into their own hands.

    http://bicyclesafe.com/

    http://www.themotorbookstore.com/artofurcylef.html

    Ride on! Ride Safe!

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattybohfiend
    The internet is probably the only place where an individual (not at fault) can be struck by a vehicle, skirt death, and yet still be condemned by another individual.
    The anonymity of the internet has created an entire new class of a-holes: trolls. It's how they get their jollies, I suppose. I doubt most would have the huevos to say the things they say to someone's face.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 May 16, 2010

  111. #111
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    I wasn't talking about intersections, I meant on the road when they're turning onto a sidestreet.Also, how fast are you guys travelling to be staying even/passing cars? I think 16mph is cookin along pretty well.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_cowboy
    I wasn't talking about intersections, I meant on the road when they're turning onto a sidestreet.Also, how fast are you guys travelling to be staying even/passing cars? I think 16mph is cookin along pretty well.
    Any place where a car could turn right should be considered a potential for a right hook, driveways included. It is often easy for cyclists to pass on the right when the cars are stopped for a light or slowing down to make their turn. (sometimes without signaling)

    Doing this leaves you in a position were a motorist may not even know you're there. See http://bicyclesafe.com/ for more examples or risky behavior and how to reduce these risks.

  113. #113
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    "I wasn't talking about intersections, I meant on the road when they're turning onto a sidestreet"

    That's called an intersection!

    A few posts up someone complained about getting doored... Even though people aren't supposed to open doors in front of oncoming traffic (cars or bikes), a cyclist should never even BE in a position to get doored. If the road is not wide enough to accommodate the parked car, the door, the bike, and a passing car, you need to be further out in the lane. If there's a bike lane which is mostly in the door zone, don't use that part of the bike lane. Or, if you're going to be riding in the door zone, be sure you can see whether anyone is in the driver's seat of ALL of the parked cars. If you can't see (eg. blacked out windows, big SUV with headrests), slow the heck down, or get out of the door zone!. The guy who was proud of bending the door to the wheel well was obviously riding way too close, way too fast, and despite the idiocy of the person who opened the door in front of him, that "accident" was for _practical_ purposes 100% his own fault and 100% preventable.

    The OP has stated multiple times that he was in a bike lane, as if the white strip on the road offers some protection. It does not. Cars are not disallowed from bike lanes any more than bikes are disallowed from using the main lane when required - that is to say, there are any number of circumstances in which a car might end up in the bike lane, or a bike might end up in the main lane...and yes, there are times when cars end up there and they have no reason or excuse to be there, but...they're there. The stripe is, to quote some pirate movie "more like guidelines, really". Don't trust it, don't rely on it. That's not to say never ride in the bike lane, I ride in the bike lane unless there's some clear reason not to, but I don't attribute any magical powers to it.

    I commuted for many years and many thousands of miles without a mirror and was comfortable doing so, but I now use one (take-a-look, on my glasses, $15 from REI -and, be warned, it takes some getting used to, I tried it a few times in the past and gave up, and only after sticking with it for a couple of weeks did it start to feel right).
    Anyway...although I haven't had a case where it has prompted me to make any sort of drastic emergency bailout, it is very useful and I feel pretty odd riding without it now (eg. on a road section coming back from an MTB ride when I don't have it on). It's NOT a replacement for a shoulder check when doing a maneuver, but it can tell you that something is there, which can help with planning ahead. That is to say, don't use it to prove a negative, always check, but if you see something in the mirror, that's good information.

    The respondent who is getting reamed out for apparently suggesting swerving in front of cars may have worded his advice poorly, but there is something to the underlying concept....if you are riding (in a bike lane, let's say, but it doesn't matter) and you have a mirror, it is pretty easy and effective to pull Jedi Mind Tricks on drivers to improve your odds of being seen and avoided. When you see a car or cars coming from behind, well before they reach you, you can ease out to the left side of what you are considering your "lane" (white stripe or not)... you're not getting in their way, you're not trying to freak them out...but you're getting into their field of view, or let's say their field of attention. They don't want to hit anything head on - might scratch the paint, and there's a big difference between the left edge of the bike lane and being in the gutter when it comes to their perception of whether you are something to be avoided. So... you "get obvious". And, if you do this, you will notice that they will (in general) ease to their own left (still in their own lane) rather than perhaps hugging the bike lane or even intruding in it (remember, it's just paint -to the average driver, it's no different than a fog line, and when there's no fog, who gives a rip about the fog line?). Anyway, back to the story... you've gotten obvious, and they have (perhaps barely noticeably) reacted. So you return the favor, as they approach you move right. And presto- you've got huge clearance AND they maybe even noticed that you weren't being a dick, you got "out of the way". Win win.

    As far as right hooks - sure, not everyone signals, but again, if you see someone coming from behind who IS signaling, that's your cue to get out to the left - don't even give them a chance to consider hooking you, instead, give them incentive to stay behind by making it obvious you're not going to block them from turning right, because you're going straight (through the intersection or past the driveway). If you were in a car you wouldn't approach the intersection in the gutter, because if you did, that would mean you are turning right, and you're not.

    Anyway...enough of my ranting. Anyone who rides on the road, whether for commuting, fitness, training, to get to and from the trailhead, whatever, should read the relevant sections of Vehicular Cycling (a relatively massive book by John Forester - you can probably get it from your library if you don't want to buy it). Or, easier and quicker, read the Street Smarts booklet by John Allen, available online for free:

    http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsbca
    The guy who was proud of bending the door to the wheel well was obviously riding way too close, way too fast, and despite the idiocy of the person who opened the door in front of him, that "accident" was for _practical_ purposes 100% his own fault and 100% preventable.
    I believe you're talking about me.
    First, It's not like I'm 'proud' to be bendin' doors up - more like I'm happy to have had some negative impact on some yuppie prick who did not give a sh!t about me.

    Second, "100% my fault and preventable"? This is a very narrow street that you have to make 'compromises' between buses and door zones. I was able to see the driver (convertible), and thought I had a reciprocal acknowledgment. (yeah, I know about assumptions )
    If I had been driving my truck by his car and the same thing happened, would it still be my fault?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  115. #115
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    hope u feel better soon man!

    I've eaten about two or three side-view mirrors on my road biking endevours but I'm sorry to hear u got hit.

    Heal up!

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I believe you're talking about me.
    First, It's not like I'm 'proud' to be bendin' doors up - more like I'm happy to have had some negative impact on some yuppie prick who did not give a sh!t about me.

    Second, "100% my fault and preventable"? This is a very narrow street that you have to make 'compromises' between buses and door zones. I was able to see the driver (convertible), and thought I had a reciprocal acknowledgment. (yeah, I know about assumptions )
    If I had been driving my truck by his car and the same thing happened, would it still be my fault?

    First, sorry if I came across as insensitive - by 'fault' I don't really mean to blame you - the guy who opened the door does bear responsibility. But for me, the compromise even in that situation/road configuration would still be to not ride in the door zone (because it's dangerous, because there are idiots who open doors in front of bikes), which apparently in that case would mean riding (further out) in the lane, possibly forcing a bus (or a car, for that matter) to wait its turn (and sure, the bus driver might be annoyed, might even honk at me - whatever, I'll decide at that point whether to shoot him the bird, or get his vehicle number and call and chat with his supervisor). If the road is so narrow that the bus is that close to parked cars, I suspect the speeds are not high. If the speeds are in fact high, I might consider taking a different road (or doing some advocacy to get some traffic calming in place). If there are no other roads, then I'm back to taking the lane. A bus is actually a pretty nice blocker to have behind you, as long as he doesn't run you over, and despite a non-trivial number of bus drivers being relatively *******-ish drivers, they are generally, ultimately, not quite as enthusiastic about actually running into things as they are about being *******s, tends to have an adverse effect on their career.

    As to assignment of blame if you peeled off the guy's door with your truck - mmm yeah, definitely his fault. And legally, when he opened in front of you on your bike, his fault. I'm not talking about legal blame/responsibility though, just about avoiding collisions, and by not riding in the door zone (most of the time - I'm by no means perfect!), I feel like I am eliminating (at those times) the possibility of such a collision. If another road user has to make room for me to do that, so be it.

    Anyway...ride on...and be safe

    Cheers.

  117. #117
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    Hey all, I started a new thread since this one was hijacked lol
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=607723

    Joshed - Hope all is going well and your healing fast

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsbca
    First,...
    Anyway...ride on...and be safe

    Cheers.
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...h&z=18&iwloc=A
    Just for reference...
    I was traveling NE on 2nd st. and just passed the intersection of Salem st.
    The driver was about 1/3 up the block (NE).
    SW of Salem is a 'no dooring zone' because there is "NO PARKING" there (bus terminal)
    So, it's a funky transition and kind of a pinch point - at any rate, I would taken the lane sooner if I could, but I'm not gonna slam on my brakes in an intersection just so I can allow a vehicle to pass, then try to rapidly accelerate while signaling for the next gap in traffic. That would just be stupid and even more dangerous IMO.

    I ride defensively and try to make educated decisions, but sometimes sh!t happens .
    Thanks for your thoughts anyhow
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I got hit by a car. Again. x3 now.-map.jpg  

    Honestly... ahh I give up

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    <iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp ;q=chico,+ca&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=30.406222,56.513672&amp;ie=UTF8 &amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Chico,+Butte,+California&amp;ll =39.736036,-121.833315&amp;spn=0.000899,0.002747&amp;t=h&amp;z =14&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=embed&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&a mp;q=chico,+ca&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=30.406222,56.513672&amp;ie=UTF8 &amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Chico,+Butte,+California&amp;ll =39.736036,-121.833315&amp;spn=0.000899,0.002747&amp;t=h&amp;z =14" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

    Just for reference...
    I was traveling E on 2nd st. and just passed the intersection of Salem st.
    The driver was about 1/3 up the block (E).
    West of Salem is a 'no dooring zone' because there is "NO PARKING" there (bus terminal)
    So, it's a funky transition and kind of a pinch point - at any rate, I would taken the lane sooner if I could, but I'm not gonna slam on my brakes in an intersection just so I can allow a vehicle to pass, then try to rapidly accelerate while signaling for the next gap in traffic. That would just be stupid and even more dangerous IMO.Well you did get hit so maybe not

    I ride defensively and try to make educated decisions, but sometimes sh!t happens .
    Thanks for your thoughts anyhow

    Geez so you made some bad decisions, **** happens, do better next time.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Geez so you made some bad decisions, **** happens, do better next time.
    not bad decisions, just decisions.
    maybe I should try weaving next time
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    not bad decisions, just decisions.
    maybe I should try weaving next time
    Don't you know that on this board, every accident is your own fault.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    Geez so you made some bad decisions, **** happens, do better next time.
    For a second, I was freaking out, because my Gmail address is showing up in the image you posted.

  123. #123
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    Hey - google even included a bus in the picture for illustrative purposes! Cool. Thanks for the photo.

    I do notice what appear to be traffic calming bulb-outs at Broadway & 2nd, so that's good I guess - although it means you definitely have to be in the lane as you are approaching that interesection. Pushy bus drivers aside, maybe taking the lane before you even cross Salem would be worthwhile, objectively (not that the motorists will be objective) you're probably not slowing anyone down...of course with no parked cars there, you might get some negative feedback from motorists who think you should be riding in the bus turnout, but they're wrong.

    Anyway, sorry about your collision and despite what I said above I'm as glad as you are that you tweaked his ride enough to give him something to (hopefully) think about next time (except that impact probably means it was relatively painful for you).

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsbca
    Hey - google even included a bus in the picture for illustrative purposes! ...
    hehe, I noticed that too - pretty convenient eh?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  125. #125
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    Nobody's perfect, I always hope to learn something when I read crash threads. (or crash! )

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostQuick
    Nobody's perfect, I always hope to learn something when I read crash threads. (or crash! )
    Don't you mean Pobody's nerfect?
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 May 16, 2010

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    not bad decisions, just decisions.
    maybe I should try weaving next time

    Maybe you should try it....

    What did Einstien say it is stupid to do the same thing and expect a different result.

    When you get hit it tends to indicate a bad decision was made somewhere along the way...

    Furthmore that bad decision caused the the problem....

    Hindsight is 20/20....

    We all gotta work on the foresight and learn....

    For example on last nights news guy got hit walking home cause he was too drunk to drive.

    Don't drive drunk (good decision).

    Walking down high speed highway in the dark with out any reflectors lights etc. bad decision. Even though he was in the right.

    Cop suggested taking a cab, asking people at bar for a ride, calling friends....recommended not walking down that road, even though the guy that got hit was perfectly legal, and therefore "safe".

    Safety starts with humility, and reliazing you will never be perfect and can always get better.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott

    Safety starts with humility, and reliazing [sic] (oh the irony ) you will never be perfect and can always get better.
    sure any number of the thousands of decisions I made that day contributed to the crash; or the kajillions I've made through out my life.
    The butterfly-effect is mind boggling
    But I can't see a 'bad' one in the immediate space-time continuum.

    -Should I have turned on my blinkie even though it was a bright sunny day?
    -Should I have stopped and chatted up that cute girl on campus? - allowing time for bimmer-man to get safely to the trendy, corner coffee shop.
    -Should I have not worn white after Labor Day?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    sure any number of the thousands of decisions I made that day contributed to the crash; or kajillions I've made through out my life.
    The butterfly-effect is mind boggling
    But I can't see a 'bad' one.

    Geez you killing me...

    So make a list of all the decisions list them from best to worst, there should be a least twenty on the list....

    The last five were bad ones....the first five were better ones.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    So make a list of all the decisions list them from best to worst...
    No.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  131. #131
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    I thought a bit on this. So I thought I'd rant.

    One incident does not prove a careless riding style, or even a short lapse. Nor do wrong choices necessarily lead to an accident that is intiated by another person's actions. (the S--t happens, arguement). Purposefully putting yourself in the door zone as a matter of course, even with the right of way would be rider error, even though legal. But to claim the accident proves you made a bad decision is based on faulty reasoning IMHO. It is an indication that a rethink is warranted, though it may turn up no other option. Bad things do happen to good riders. Just not as much.

    I mean you could argue that deciding to learn how to ride a bike causes bike-car accidents. See the headlines: Riders don't cause accidents! Bikes do: Ban all bikes!. Being born causes death! The logic is invalid. There is also the civil concept of reasonable and prudent. These allow for less than God-like perfection in our decisions and actions and where we might get off riding safe but not legal. A little leeway to be human and not robots.

    So, with all due respect to the poster, I don't buy that being 'doored' is ALWAYS 100% your fault as a cyclist. I do buy that it is 100% in your own best interest to reduce the chances of it as much as possible. A right of way does not absolve us of responsibility for our own safety. Right of way is not a shield to hide behind. You can be dead right.

    With all due respect to another poster, riding legal is not synonymous with riding safely, either, an inference at odds with the recommendation not to ride in the door zone which is hazardous, but perfectly legal. (Note: You DO need to be cautious of how, why, where, and when you are choosiong to not follow traffic laws and be prepared to defend your actions in court.)

    It is legal for me to ride a state highway without rideable shoulders north of town, but they run down Amish buggies with SMV signs on that road. Suicide by proxy. It is a small but important distinction that it is your responsibility 100% to minimize our risk, but that does not mean if you fail, that you are automatically 100% at fault. Avoiding dooring may be above 90% avoidable. Being doored is good cause for examining how you might have avoided it, but it is NOT proof you messed up. Rethinking your actions for improved strategies is true of every close call or accident. I don't think accidents and doorings can be completely eliminated in ALL situations, so some close calls were unavoidable byt the cyclist. They are called 'accidents' for a reason.

    Case in point about a potential dooring situation I face: one of the best pieces of pavement to ride lies northeast of town. There are a number of ways to get there, but all have drawbacks. The one with the least total risk is lightly travelled. It has parking both sides and leaves enough room for two medium sized vehicels or smaller but not two delivery trucks or pickups with dual wheels. It's a chicane. It has a partially blind hill with an intersection part-way up. Unfortunately, a high percentage of those who do take it are avoiding the main street with its stoplights, so tend to be over the speed limit.

    You can leave the stop at the top of the hill entering the chicane on the other side of the intersection thinking you can ride the center of the road away from doors, only to have an approaching vehicle hidden by the hill, or that just blew the stop at the mid-hill intersection take their piece out of the middle. Now I suppose I could stay smack dab in the midddle of the road playing chicken, but I'd sooner chance a door than trust an impatient driver who did not immediately give room/way. That vehicle is closing at a combined speed of maybe 50 mph or more. I have whatever speed after braking with a door. I won't be forced into the mirrors on my side, though. We can pass each other but we are both open to being doored in that 1/2 block stretch particularly by two door cars with long doors. If I see the oncoming and there's an open parking spot, I pull over and let it pass. It is what larger vehicles do. It would be nice if that would be reciprocal for the bike already in the chicane, but that's very unlikely. So I cease my accelleration and watch carefully, ready to brake. I could still be caught by a last second door opening. If so, I plan to aim for a chunk of extended leg to aid my decelleration and impart a needed lesson. They are not yet at that point a pedestrian with automatic right of way whatever they do. They would have had to open with a bike and a car present in a narrow street a thoughtless move that has a cost.

    Statistically it is possible to be a very unlucky rider who is riding safely and with responsibility, and still have many close calls or three accidents. Exposure is part of that. Finding better times and places is good, but not always an option. Really bad traffic and drivers can be a good reason not to commute by bike. Not being able to keep track of busy traffic and be defensive enough is another good reason not to commute by bike. We don't need to martyr ourselves to our cause of bike commuting. A dead cyclist has no vote. Joshed decided to remove himself from the situation. That may well have been his best option.

    The cycle safety books are good. Even after 50 years of riding I found a couple of useful tips. You can't have too many bikes and you can't ride too safely. End of rant.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshed
    ...Yeah this is in Santa Cruz CA. Apparently just a bunch of bad drivers....
    That's says it all. I am in Santa Cruz for the weekend and these are some of the worst drivers I have encountered in all my travels. I also think there lots of impaired driving here. I've gone past the gas station at Ocean and Sequol three times in 24 hours, always with the sun up and the cops have been conducting soberity test on drivers all three times...lots of stoners, bums, drunks etc....

  133. #133
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    I guess I cannot relate. I live in boulder and haven't had any trouble. I once got run off the road by a lifted truck (the size of the truck is in my opinion evidence for malice), but was ok. Most people here are really great. The school has dropped its admission standards though so we have a bunch of bros on the road.
    Science works.

    "Beliefs are what divide people. Doubts unite them."-Sir Peter Ustinov

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilScience View Post
    Seriously? So YOU can control the behaviour of others at all time while maintaining 360 degrees of vision and riding a bicycle? I am impressed.

    As a careful and responsible rider, I can honestly say that NOTHING short of taking transit or walking would have prevented the 2 accidents I have had in the last couple of years. In each case, a driver unpredictably and suddenly acted against common sense and the rules of the road while right next to me. When each car hit me, I was in a bike lane, following the rules, and aware of their presence. I saw the accident coming on both occasions (car suddenly turns into me, despite being aware of my presence), but had no time to react. Clearly I am in insufficient control of myself and others....
    This is one of the reasons you are supposed to just take the whole damn right car lane.

  135. #135
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    So, I have 4 years 8,000 miles year round commuting under my belt. Some insights, yes accidents happen, not always your fault. There are a reason drivers in MA are called Ma$$Holes. I run bright front and rear blinkies all the time, being visible helps. Also a bar end mirror and safety vest. Side visibility is needed, I have those amber spoke lights for night time. I run a bright helmet light, nice to look at the drivers going to cut you off. They see me and think again.
    I am never next to the right of a car in an intersection, no right hooks there. So I filter to the front or wait behind the last car. Love my disc brakes, lots of problems avoided. If on a mountain bike, you should be able to bunny hop a curb to get out of trouble. Who knows how to counter steer? Effective when needed. Maybe look at a different route to work?
    Last edited by leeboh; 07-05-2012 at 07:47 AM.

  136. #136
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    After clicking on the thread, I had to check to see how old this accident was. Being hit 2 time by a car on a bike and once while walking, drivers just don't pay attention. About 2 months ago, I almost was run over by a parks department truck while I was walking. I started riding different after being hit on my bike. I like mirrors but they wouldn't have prevented the 2 bike hits. It's seems riding at night with bright ass lights gets more attention by motorist as they're getting blinded or just don't know what they're seeing. One things for sure, CAR>BIKE when it comes to a crash.
    It's the stopping and starting part that will get ya!

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatbrakes View Post
    After clicking on the thread, I had to check to see how old this accident was. Being hit 2 time by a car on a bike and once while walking, drivers just don't pay attention. About 2 months ago, I almost was run over by a parks department truck while I was walking. I started riding different after being hit on my bike. I like mirrors but they wouldn't have prevented the 2 bike hits. It's seems riding at night with bright ass lights gets more attention by motorist as they're getting blinded or just don't know what they're seeing. One things for sure, CAR>BIKE when it comes to a crash.
    This is a very old thread...

    However,,,,if youhave an accident....you need to question yourself why it happened. You need to establish what the other driver could have done to avoid the accident and YOU NEED TO QUESTION WHAT YOU COULD HAVE DONE to avoid the accident.

    There are always things both parties could have done differently to reduce the impact or completely avoid the accident.

    Every time some one says there was nothing I could do it was all the other guys fault...you know he hasn't thought it through....

    Then if you get hit 3 times in a short time and say there was nothing I could do......you really know the guy isn't thinking things through properly.

    That is the real point.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    So, I have 4 years 8,000 miles year round commuting under my belt. Some insights, yes accidents happen, not always your fault. There are a reason drivers in MA are called Ma$$Holes. I run bright front and rear blinkies all the time, being visible helps. Also a bar end mirror and safety vest. Side visibility is needed, I have those amber spoke lights for night time. I run a bright helmet light, nice to look at the drivers going to cut you off. They see me and think again.
    I am never next to the right of a car in an intersection, no right hooks there. So I filter to the front or wait behind the last car. Love my disc brakes, lots of problems avoided. If on a mountain bike, you should be able to bunny hop a curb to get out of trouble. Who knows how to counter steer? Effective when needed. Maybe look at a different route to work?
    Bingo...

    I got 7 years and over 40,000 km.....never been hit yet....

    I have bailed on a couple of routes....changed my approach to some intersections.....adjusted my routes.....changed and improved my clothing lights and visiblilty.

    I have improved my skills....I grab lanes....I ride on sidewalks....I make myself heard...

    I have yet to go I week without noticing something I could have done better or safer....

  139. #139
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    Getting hit by a car is no big deal. You just have to learn to roll with it and relax. Judo training helps considerably. I can effectively "tuck and roll" out of harms way. I've been hit at least 60 times now and only have bumps and bruises.
    Baby, I want my face to be your quiver killer.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Bluth View Post
    Getting hit by a car is no big deal. You just have to learn to roll with it and relax. Judo training helps considerably. I can effectively "tuck and roll" out of harms way. I've been hit at least 60 times now and only have bumps and bruises.
    So what have YOU done to improve your tuck and roll skills other than Judo lessons.

    and how are you going to mitigate the bumps and bruises.

  141. #141
    sofa king awsm
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    So what have YOU done to improve your tuck and roll skills other than Judo lessons.

    and how are you going to mitigate the bumps and bruises.
    I ride in one of those Sumo Wrestler halloween costumes as well. Pads me virtually everywhere and really helps me roll due to its large ball shape. The only drawback is my thighs rub when I pedal and it makes a very irritating sound. Oh and I overheat in the summer. But it's worth it when you've been hit well over 600 times. <--Yes, I added another zero--because I'm a badass.
    Baby, I want my face to be your quiver killer.

  142. #142
    mtbr member
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    in 5 years of city commute i got hit by cars 3 times, nothing serious but it made me very angry at the time when cars pull out without looking or suddenly u-turn without looking. :/

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