how many commute w/o life insurance and have kids- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    New question here. how many commute w/o life insurance and have kids

    My whole family is very concerned that I have no life insurance and commute by bike. The fact that makes them most concerned is that I have a 3yr old son. I know I should have life insurance and its not that expensive I was just curious as to how many of us don't have life insurance and commute by bike...being that it is relatively dangerous especially if some of the commute is rural highway. Just let me know...arguments good, bad, indifferent. Thanks guys and gals

  2. #2
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    dunno what life insurance has to do with biking.
    but I don't consider being a bike rider especially lethal, why do they?

    anyways, I've got insurance through work, not by my choice.
    I chose the highest level of payout because I own motorcycles, and crashing on those at speed is considerably more lethal.
    (while some consider everyone else crashing into them when choosing their insurance, I feel that it's indicative of a fear-induced state, prefer not to live wondering how quickly I'll die if I get hit)

    besides, my wife's gainfully employed and highly intelligent, she won't be suffering for money if I disappeared, just companionship LOL!
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  3. #3
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    I have neither life insurance nor children. If you're going to die, you're going to die no matter what you do. Car accident, pushed in front of a train, random shooting, hit by lightning, sudden massive heart attack... life will kill you man. Don't sweat it, just ride your bike.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  4. #4
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    I look at life insurance like this: If people depend on you for income, your life insurance should payout as much as necessary to allow them to maintain their quality of life. If you have a mortgage, it should pay the house off so they can continue living there. You'll also need enough to cover their income sufficiently until the child is in school and your wife can work full time.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker
    I look at life insurance like this: If people depend on you for income, your life insurance should payout as much as necessary to allow them to maintain their quality of life. If you have a mortgage, it should pay the house off so they can continue living there. You'll also need enough to cover their income sufficiently until the child is in school and your wife can work full time.
    +1. This is the only reason to have life insurance - to help pay the bills when you;re gone.

    As an aside, you're more likely to be killed or injured while driving a car or walking than you are when riding a bike. [all perils]

  6. #6

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    Thanks guys....maybe i can use some of these points to try and sway my family. Great quote by the way Gary. "life will kill you man. Don't sweat it just ride your bike." Love it

  7. #7
    Wierdo
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    Buying Life Insurance to make sure that you spouse and children are looked after should the unthinkable happen is just one of those responsible things that you should buck up and do if you are in a position to afford it. Biking or no biking.

  8. #8
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    So if you didnt commute by bike it would not be an issue? You should have life insurance if you can afford it...who the hell knows when or why you will die...we just all know you will give up the ghost at some point (around 72 or so if a white male). However, leaving your wife and child in a financial pinch if the unthinkable (and often unknowable) happens is not an option. Both of you should probably consider wills too. Its big picture stuff when you create a family imo.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by heym
    Thanks guys....maybe i can use some of these points to try and sway my family. Great quote by the way Gary. "life will kill you man. Don't sweat it just ride your bike." Love it
    Not sure wives and kids typically grasp this kind of philosophy the same way we do!

  10. #10
    IdontShootPeopleAnyMore
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    ok to make your wife happy either get life insurance....

    ...or...

    1. buy a good helmet
    2. buy a good set of lights front and back
    3. install reflective stips allover your bike and your biking clothes

    that should make you safer... but if biking road rage is why you need insurance I suggest packing heat

    if someone messes with you on the road with annoying honking or yelling at you flash this... http://www.taurususa.com/product-det...egory=Revolver if they dont stop, f-in shoot them in the head...

    I'd say you are proabably safe then...
    What mountain bike forum do pirates use? .....



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  11. #11
    Ride-Drink Beer-Repeat
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    Who's going to pay for your funeral. Your momma?
    Who's going to finish up all your final taxes and finances. Your daddy?

    When you leave this world cause you was dumb enough to flash and gun at the guy that just turned his truck around and ran you over or better yet pulled out his gun and wasn't afraid to use it. Don't make everyone else in your family pay for it.

    By the way life insurance is cheaper the younger and dumber you are.
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  12. #12

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    dually noted fellas...thanks. I know I should have it...I am just not in the position to afford it right now...i know its like 15-25 bux a month but right now thats a lot in car sales business

  13. #13
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    Sell your car... then use the money you were using for insurance, gas, and maintenance to afford life insurance. Tires, chains and a tune up will run you about 300$ a year for a bike... as long as you don't have upgraditis.
    Looking for a Medium Scott Scale frame, preferably a 2012 in 26.

  14. #14
    Drunken fool
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafdog
    So if you didnt commute by bike it would not be an issue? You should have life insurance if you can afford it...who the hell knows when or why you will die...we just all know you will give up the ghost at some point (around 72 or so if a white male). However, leaving your wife and child in a financial pinch if the unthinkable (and often unknowable) happens is not an option. Both of you should probably consider wills too. Its big picture stuff when you create a family imo.
    +1

    It's one thing if you're single and don't have kids to say F it I don't care what happens, buut if you have kids you should plan on a means to provide for them should you die or be injured to the point of not being able to work.
    You better take care of me, Lord. If you don't you're gonna have me on your hands.

  15. #15
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    Get insurance. If you die (from anything), where does that leave your family financially?

    I have a 500k 20 year term policy that's $294/year and my wife's 250k policy is half that (go figure).

  16. #16
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    Upgraditis is a very dangerous thing!!! It could become lethal if you buy that new xtr derailleur instead of the weeks groceries lol =]. Better get life insurance in case you catch upgradeitis

  17. #17
    Bedwards Of The West
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    I do have life insurance, two kids, and a pregnant wife....but I've also been commuting (partially on a rural highway) for several years. My take is that it's way safer than commuting in a city. Get a crazy bright blinky taillight or three and tell your family that statistically you are much safer than the people driving on that highway, and waaaaay safer than anyone commuting in a big city.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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    (no excuse for that either)

  18. #18
    Frt Range, CO
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    Years ago my father-in-law advised me to get term life insurance while I was able to qualify. If you wait until you need to get it (because of a kid for example) you might have a health issue that prevents you from qualifying for life insurance.

    The other thing he told me was to never buy any of those screwy investment life insurance schemes (whole life etc), just buy term life insurance and invest in your company's 401k or individual IRA.

    25 years later I see he was spot on, his advice has protected my family (even when commuting) and allowed me to invest the max 401k money allowed. In 22 years it's become a nice chunk of $$.

  19. #19
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    As other have said you should have life insurance to take care of your wife and child if something happens to you. One thing you may want to check my policy through work pays double the face value for accidental death.

    The bike commuting is irrelevant to the question of whether you should get life insurance. I don't view bike commuting as particularly dangerous.

  20. #20
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    I don't have this issue, but in general, I'm kind of offended that someone would think bike commuting puts you in some increased risk category. Not to insult your family, but I think somebody was drinking the Wal-Mart water (they put stoopid in it).

    There is so much misinformation out there............
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  21. #21
    Hairy man
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    Quote Originally Posted by heym
    My whole family is very concerned that I have no life insurance and commute by bike. The fact that makes them most concerned is that I have a 3yr old son. I know I should have life insurance and its not that expensive I was just curious as to how many of us don't have life insurance and commute by bike...being that it is relatively dangerous especially if some of the commute is rural highway. Just let me know...arguments good, bad, indifferent. Thanks guys and gals
    I'd ask them if they thought of me as anything more than a paycheck. Then I'd tell them all to go to hell. Seriously, they think it's OK to care more about your insurance than you existence?

    I'm not very diplomatic.

    Anywho, I've never had life insurance, have 6 year old daughter, have commuted by bike her whole life. I'll live longer because I ride the bike.
    We all get it in the end.

  22. #22
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    really? 25 per month is too expensive to ensure the financial security of your family? go out to eat one less time per month, use one less tank of gas per month, cancel cable tv (if you have it), cancel your netfix account...really. i know Im not you and dont know anything about you or your finances, it just seams to make sense
    Let The Good Times Roll

  23. #23
    Wierdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Anywho, I've never had life insurance, have 6 year old daughter, have commuted by bike her whole life. I'll live longer because I ride the bike.
    Yes, you will live longer because you ride your bike - but only if you don't die first in a car accident or get whacked while riding your bike or some other thing out of your control. Maybe your family's financial condition is such that they will be fine once you are gone. Maybe you just like playing the odds...they are in your favor.

    Personally I could not sleep at night knowing that my family would have to worry about keeping the house and paying the bills should I pass away unexpectedly. $325/year (which is what I am paying for $500K of term life insurance) seems like a pretty small price to pay for a little sleep at night. YMMV.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter
    Years ago my father-in-law advised me to get term life insurance while I was able to qualify. If you wait until you need to get it (because of a kid for example) you might have a health issue that prevents you from qualifying for life insurance.

    The other thing he told me was to never buy any of those screwy investment life insurance schemes (whole life etc), just buy term life insurance and invest in your company's 401k or individual IRA.

    25 years later I see he was spot on, his advice has protected my family (even when commuting) and allowed me to invest the max 401k money allowed. In 22 years it's become a nice chunk of $$.
    Whole Life isn't an investment life insurance scheme. It's a permanent type policy that earns cash values based upon dividends awarded to policy holders that year. A dividend is awarded after a mutual company has used its investment earnings that year to pay all its bills, and then awards the remaining money to policy holders. It's almost like the policy holders are "stock holders" in a company. Dividends can be used as cash value build up, purchase additional insurance (paid-up additions), used toward the payment of your premium, cashed out, or be deposited into a conservative, interest bearing account.

    Whole life policies are not subject to loss as they are not directly attached to any market, and usually the face amount and some cash values are gauranteed, contractually.

    However, dividends are not guaranteed, therefore, you may earn a nice dividend one year, and not so hot the next.

    Whole Life, Variable and Universal Insurance policies are vastly different from each other and should not be confused with one another. Variable insurance IS directly attached to market growth/loss and has the most risk attached to it.

    Personally, I believe "investment risk" and "life insurance" should never be intertwined. Confusing insurance needs with retirement planning is very common.

    Permanent insurance has it's place in financial planning, and you should seek advice of a well established, experienced agent to help you make a decision on what is best for you.

    Life insurance is a thrift plan designed to provide a TAX FREE benefit to your heirs in the event you die. Term covers you for a specified amount of time and permanent insurance covers you for the rest of your life. Term premiums increase over time depending on the renewal date, or it may expire, and generally people do not keep their term insurance past affordablilty. Permanent insurance is a great tool for those wanting to provide for estate taxation purposes, final expense plans, or to "leave something behind" for their family when they die of old age. Given that life insurance is a tax free benefit, this provides instant cash to heirs to pay taxes on property, IRA's, 401K's, bonds and investments, and any other taxable assets (mostly ALL) that are left to heirs. Life insurance is not only for protection while you are raising a family - it is one of the rare aspects of a persons estate plan that can offset devastating taxation and final expenses after a death. Don't get me started on the cost of probate.

    Statistically, about 2% of term insurance policies are ever paid out as a result of death while the policy was in force. So when somebody says they "saved money" with term... did you really? You're not dead, so the insurance company comes out on top. With whole life (not variable or universal) at least you can cash out your policy. Sometimes the cash out is more than the premium layout depending on how long the policy was in force. Term insurance DOES have a place in a person's life, but it is definetely NOT the best plan for everybody.

    I don't believe that there are better life insurance policies than the next - each type has a purpose and people should buy what works best FOR THEM. The biggest mistake by the consumer, in my experience, is that people buy the wrong type, they buy too much or they buy too little. Also, depending on your employer for your entire life insurance plan is not the best way to go - try to supplement with an individual plan if you can afford to. Bad advice could be from a misinformed or unethical agent or misinformed family or friend. Get good, professional advice, buy what works best for you, and change your policy(s) as time goes on. Friends and family I'm sure, want the best for you, but unless they are currently licensed and appointed by a company, they may not know entirely what they are talking about or have a prejudice based on a bad experience.

    Life insurance needs change on average of 5 times in a person's life. A 35 year old with a family has a much different need than a 75 year old working with an estate planner with worries of estate taxes and probate costs. Both individuals will buy completely different plans for completely different reasons.

    If you can't get advice from a reliable professional (or can't bring yourself to trust anyone), refer to a "Life Insurance Buyers Guide" distributed by the Insurance Commissioner of your state and read it. There is no biased language toward one company or one policy type - it will give you the pros and cons of all types and give you questions to reflect on before purchasing.

    Always buy from a high rated insurance company and research a company's financial strength on A.M Best, Standard and Poor's, Fitch or Moody's. A++ and AAA ratings is what you want. You don't ride a WalMart bike on rock gardens, do you?

  25. #25
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    Life insurance: only needed until you're self insured unless you just want to spend a ton of money to make the people left behind really rich.

    Get term life insurance, invest the money you don't waste on whole/universal/variable (same product, slightly different returns) and you come out way ahead and are self insured by the time the term life has expired.

    Don't confuse/mix your investments with your insurance.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJETT
    Life insurance: only needed until you're self insured unless you just want to spend a ton of money to make the people left behind really rich.

    Get term life insurance, invest the money you don't waste on whole/universal/variable (same product, slightly different returns) and you come out way ahead and are self insured by the time the term life has expired.

    Don't confuse/mix your investments with your insurance.
    Most people never are self insured. The taxes paid by the estates of people without adequate insurance planning sure made the government rich.

    Elvis's estate shrunk 62% after he died. He had no life insurance. Government is laughing all the way to bank. Something like an IRA can be taxed three times when left to heirs - capital gains, income and estate taxes, often times leading to 80% shrinkage. That's a sh*tty self-insurance plan if I ever heard one. But when somebody uses 1% of their estate to pay an insurance premium resulting in millions in tax free money for their heirs - sounds like a better plan than "self insurance". 1% is better than 80% of estate shrinkage. Cover your ass with an Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust, and insurance proceeds are not calculated into the value of the estate which leads to even more tax advantages.

    But again, life insurance is for those who care about all that. If you don't really care about income replacement for a young breadwinner or estate taxation later on... then life insurance isn't even an issue.

    If you're a young father or mother - get some term coverage at a minimum. Don't expect that you will ever gain anything from it except for peace of mind. And this "buy term, invest the difference" is a great motto for stock brokers and financial planners who make nice commissions on trading and a lot less on a life insurance brokerage deal.

  27. #27
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    I would get yourself a good financial planner. My financial planner only makes money if I make money and the first thing he did was make sure I had a good whole life plan before we even got into investments. Maybe he was just stacking up his list of potential well off widows, but its really just SOP for the company. Whole life with option to purchase additional insurance (OPAI) is the way to go. but don't take my word for it, do your home work. And really if for one minute you thought that your kids and for that matter your significant other would not depend on you for their well being you have only lied to yourself, and you are the worst person that you could ever lie to.
    “Let me 'splain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.”

  28. #28
    Hairy man
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodway
    Yes, you will live longer because you ride your bike - but only if you don't die first in a car accident or get whacked while riding your bike or some other thing out of your control. Maybe your family's financial condition is such that they will be fine once you are gone. Maybe you just like playing the odds...they are in your favor.
    Actually I'm really poor, if I get hit by a car in all likelihood they'll be better off from sueing the driver's insurance company than they are from my measly paycheck. But my daughter loves me and I love her, so it's not like I'm trying to get hit or anything.
    We all get it in the end.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    +1. This is the only reason to have life insurance - to help pay the bills when you;re gone.

    As an aside, you're more likely to be killed or injured while driving a car or walking than you are when riding a bike. [all perils]

    +2. Life insurance has nothing to do with you, it's for the people you care about. The chance that anything will happen to you is insanely low, but the result would be so catastrophic it makes sense.
    I call for a mandate to allow only road bikes on trails to limit our speeds and increase our line picking skills-FB

  30. #30
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    If you spend a dollar on whole life before you max out IRA/401K, you're getting killed by taxes. There's no way whole life is better than a good mutual fund (Fidelity, Vanguard, etc), esp concerning fees. Once the tax advantages of IRA/401K are considered, whole life is much more expensive. That's why Edwards Jones is booming, term life and mutual funds.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter
    If you spend a dollar on whole life before you max out IRA/401K, you're getting killed by taxes. There's no way whole life is better than a good mutual fund (Fidelity, Vanguard, etc), esp concerning fees. Once the tax advantages of IRA/401K are considered, whole life is much more expensive. That's why Edwards Jones is booming, term life and mutual funds.

    That's a lot of definitive statements! And because definitive statements rarely hold up when applied to a large group, lets take a look at them-

    If you spend a dollar on whole life before you max out IRA/401K, you're getting killed by taxes.

    There are three times an investment can be taxed.
    -When you earn the money
    -As it grows
    -When you withdraw the money

    IRA/401k get by the first two, but they are still subject to the third. In the third, they are subject to ordinary income rates at 100%. The government will be getting their money.


    There's no way whole life is better than a good mutual fund (Fidelity, Vanguard, etc), esp concerning fees

    Is a hammer better than an orange? You are comparing a risk planning solution to a investment vehicle. They do wildly different things.

    Once the tax advantages of IRA/401K are considered, whole life is much more expensive.

    Again, that statement doesn't make any sense. In terms of taxation, whole life functions just like a roth ira. Taxed first, grow's tax deffered, paid out tax free. It can be expensive, and is not the best pure investment vehicle, but it's not designed to be. If you want inexpensive, go buy some etf's or individual stock.

    That's why Edwards Jones is booming, term life and mutual funds.

    I call for a mandate to allow only road bikes on trails to limit our speeds and increase our line picking skills-FB

  32. #32
    Frt Range, CO
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    As if you can't find a mutual fund in a large family like Vanguard or Fidelity that has the same investment risk as the whole life (notice the claim about excessive fees is dead when mutual funds are discussed). And the tax thing, you're joking, right? I still remember the whole life salesman spuddering on that one. I'm evading taxes at my marginal rate and including them in my investment...the compound interest and future value of money can be confusing....

  33. #33
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    [QUOTE=pursuiter]As if you can't find a mutual fund in a large family like Vanguard or Fidelity that has the same investment risk as the whole life (notice the claim about excessive fees is dead when mutual funds are discussed).[QUOTE=pursuiter]

    Just not the same thing.


    [QUOTE=pursuiter] I'm evading taxes at my marginal rate and including them in my investment...the compound interest and future value of money can be confusing....[QUOTE=pursuiter]

    You are delaying taxes. Nothing less, nothing more. When you begin taking the money at 59.5, or the gov't forces you to take it out on a schedule beginning at 70.5, you will be taxed. On everything- all the money you have put in as well as growth. At ordinary income rates. Those are the facts.

    Now, you can make the argument as to when your better off paying the taxes, and whether compounding, present cash flow needs, differing income in retirement, and tax rates in the future will work for you or not. But that money will be taxed before anyone ever spends a dime of it.
    Last edited by 9.8m/s/s; 01-03-2010 at 02:52 PM.
    I call for a mandate to allow only road bikes on trails to limit our speeds and increase our line picking skills-FB

  34. #34
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    Just for a simple answer if anyone is looking for it: buy term life insurance so that aspect is covered, it's cheap and very straight forward, then do matching 401k first, then Roth IRA next, then back to non-matching 401k to get up to 15% of your gross income if you can. That's a well balanced plan that is easy manage for just about anyone.

    Regardless of what you do, do something, as long as it works for you and your situation. See a financial planner if needed.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by heym
    My whole family is very concerned that I have no life insurance and commute by bike. The fact that makes them most concerned is that I have a 3yr old son. I know I should have life insurance and its not that expensive I was just curious as to how many of us don't have life insurance and commute by bike...being that it is relatively dangerous especially if some of the commute is rural highway. Just let me know...arguments good, bad, indifferent. Thanks guys and gals
    You really should get coverage. It's the responsible thing to do.
    Remember, it's not for you, it's for your family.
    At minimum get a term life (burial) policy of $20,000.
    Sure, they can have a car wash, bar-b-cue, sell t-shirts with your picture, "In loving memory" for $30 (ya, right).
    Maybe a telethon!

    Seriously, get the policy! Any other attitude is just plain irresponsible IMO.

  36. #36
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    Well, if this makes you feel any better, there was a study of NYC cyclist deaths.

    95% were not wearing helmets, 25% were drunk.

    Just wear your helmet and don't drink until you get home.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    As an aside, you're more likely to be killed or injured while driving a car or walking than you are when riding a bike. [all perils]
    Cars do come w/ insurance though, for the most part.

    I have kids and life insurance but that's just because of the kids in general not because of biking with kids.

    A friend passed away w/ 3 kids (youngest was 3 months) and no life insurance. Un-necessary to add financial hardship to the overall rough picture.

    Our goal for life insurance was not to pay off a mortgage entirely or replace income indefinitely but to give a comfortable cushion so don't have to make important decisions on short notice under financial pressure at an emotionally fragile time.

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