Do you make blind turns?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Do you make blind turns?

    I notice a lot of SF commuters make turns blindly, without looking in either direction.

    I also notice a few run stop signs and red lights without looking.

    While I'm sure they are listening for cars, like I do, without looking first, no matter where your line takes you is asking for trouble. And there are electric vehicles and even other bicyclists you won't hear.

    One time I was driving, and a rider turned right in front of me. While he stayed totally in the gap between the parked cars and myself, he surprised me and left himself no room for error.

    Another time while I was on my motorcycle, same thing, except he turned into me. Since I was on two wheels myself, it was easy to make my point by telling him to f**king watch himself.

    But I don't assume that just because I can squeeze into a bike lane, that I should turn no matter what the traffic is like.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro
    I notice a lot of SF commuters make turns blindly, without looking in either direction.

    I also notice a few run stop signs and red lights without looking.
    Yes, just like the bad drivers do. You will likely continue to notice these manuevers, but you may notice it is new folks making them as last week's blind light runners have already been squashed.


    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro
    While I'm sure they are listening for cars, like I do, without looking first, no matter where your line takes you is asking for trouble. And there are electric vehicles and even other bicyclists you won't hear.
    I have noticed this when driving a Prius; when you go slow, the gas engine turns off & you come right up on pedestrians, say in a parking lot, without them noticing & moving over like they normally do. You don't want to be rude & honk, but you can end up going 2mph behind them for quite a ways before they notice.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer
    Yes, just like the bad drivers do. .
    I see this a lot in very young riders. Two yesterday right in front of a cruiser coming against me a bit farther from me. He did not pursue.

    We are not seen by many motorists. Add in a lack of defensive riding and we have a likelihood for producing organ donors.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer
    I have noticed this when driving a Prius; ...
    Had same thought about blind turns and intersection running. The Prius and the Nissan Leaf will be hard to detect by ear.

    Case in point: I was riding my lane on the narrow road near home and busy watching kids on bikes in front of me at the side of the road and a car about to pull out from a lane entering from my right just beyond them. I had not glanced at my mirror for longer than usual. When clear of the possible issues, I looked, here is this Prius tailgating me. Not appreciated with the potential of a kid on a bike suddenly moving into my path. I wondered if at street speeds I'd hear it. Being in my lee, the wind swept what little tire noise there was away and I assumed the driver regenerated as he slowed so the engine was at idle or off.

  4. #4
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    I see this a lot with club (i.e. fitness) type riders, but also with some people who are clearly commuters. If I can't see through the corner I stop and look. If I can see, I still slow and look. I always look, not looking is asking for trouble.

    David B.

  5. #5
    weirdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer
    You don't want to be rude & honk, but you can end up going 2mph behind them for quite a ways before they notice.
    Maybe electric and hybrid drivers would be well served by mounting a bike bell on the steeringwheels

    Actually, being silent or nearly silent does cause problems for blind pedestrians. I saw a TV segment some time ago about a group who were studying the effectiveness of different types of artificial engine sounds and beeps/buzzes so those cars wouldn`t be so stealthy.
    Recalculating....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    Maybe electric and hybrid drivers would be well served by mounting a bike bell on the steeringwheels
    Actually, something like this sounds totally reasonable. A car horn is designed to be loud enough for people to hear from inside their cars. You don't need that kind of volume to warn pedestrians and cyclists in the street. If you've ever been blasted by a car horn at close proximity, you know how irritating and dangerous it can be. That being the case, I can imagine that many well-intentioned motorists would be somewhat hesitant to use their horns around cyclists. As a year-round bike commuter, I'd love to see cars outfitted with a secondary horn, alarm or bell that is quieter than the primary horn.

  7. #7
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    The one advantage a bicycle has is excellent all round vision....

    Ridiculous not to use the advantage to its fullest extent.

  8. #8
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    Made time to find the spot in this thread:

    http://www.cpfgreen.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64&page=12

    Start at post 347 with Daryl's help on the sound issue of electric cars.

    Bottom line for those less interested: they ARE working on it. In fact the late lamented EV-1 had a system.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro
    I notice a lot of SF commuters make turns blindly, without looking in either direction.

    I also notice a few run stop signs and red lights without looking.
    Donít get me started about the hipsters on their fixies.
    Donít frail and blow if youíre going to Braille and Flow.

  10. #10
    weirdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Made time to find the spot in this thread:

    http://www.cpfgreen.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64&page=12

    Start at post 347 with Daryl's help on the sound issue of electric cars.

    Bottom line for those less interested: they ARE working on it. In fact the late lamented EV-1 had a system.
    From the linked thread:
    "Adding noise pollution is heading the wrong direction. Effort should be put into taking the loud cars off the road. Then we could hear the quiet cars and the cyclists and pedestrians more easily."...
    Sounds good in theory, but I`m not so sure that electric Kennworth is gonna hear me comming and move over. Maybe I`d better stop lubing my chain and ride knobby tires.

    ..."Besides, EVs do have horns, don't they? I don't get what all the fuss is about. Collision avoidance should be 100% visual. If a pedestrian needs to hear a car to avoid it, then that means they aren't looking when the cross the streets."
    Are you the only cyclist over there?
    Recalculating....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    From the linked thread: "Adding noise pollution is heading the wrong direction. Effort should be put into taking the loud cars off the road. Then we could hear the quiet cars and the cyclists and pedestrians more easily."...
    Sounds good in theory, ...
    I reported it to show they were looking at it. As to hearing quiet cars coming up behind with the wind in your ears? Well that is what a mirror is for.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    ..."Besides, EVs do have horns, don't they? I don't get what all the fuss is about.
    Neither do I. I'd hook up a dedicated digital file of a reviing Ferrari V12 when I think for pedestrians walking across the full width of a lane or white cane user who could use a little audio help identifying an approaching car.

    Of course one could spread something nauseatingly sweet and VERY viral like "It's a Small World After All..." But you might get carjacked and the car burned.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar
    ..."Collision avoidance should be 100% visual. If a pedestrian needs to hear a car to avoid it, then that means they aren't looking when the cross the streets." Are you the only cyclist over there?
    It was people with sight issues who augment their vehicle detection with audio clues who are most concerned. Though Technozombies with nose in their texting are in reality more blind.

    An early started, long and varied thread on bikes (Transportation subsection) has a number of cyclists, including Daryl.

    http://www.cpfgreen.com/vb/showthread.php?t=68

  12. #12
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    I always look and stop at all the stops. Drivers are pissed at cyclist enough as it is, we don't help our case by acting like idiots. Unfortunately, many of the people on bikes are stupid.

    It's one thing to ride at the speed of traffic, which most people on this site probably do. But I've seen people riding townies, with headphones in,oblivious to the fact that they are doing 3 mph and the rest of the traffic is doing around 40. When the next street over is calmer.

    And they move through traffic as if the laws don't apply to them. You can fight a traffic laws but 2 tons of car has the laws of physics on its side.

    And then we go out and get lumped in with the idiots.
    Life is too short to race through it. When life is a blur, you'll miss the magic.

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