Cyclist Records the Last Stop Sign He Ever Ran- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Cyclist Records the Last Stop Sign He Ever Ran


  2. #2
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    A cyclist "appears" to have run a stopsign. Meaning what? Blew through it? Rolling stop? Didn't slow to the legally acceptable 0.00000000miles/hr? Personally I wouldn't take the the police at their word on this without seeing the video.

    Meanwhile, a pontiac commits a fatal hit&run.

    Which one is a felony, exactly? You sure can't tell from the article.

  3. #3
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    Wish they would show the video
    Save a tree & wipe your butt with an owl.
    Thank your local Sierra Club.

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    The wife should request the video and then look into suing the PD for slander/libel. Every time a bicyclist or pedestrian is hit and/or killed, there is always victim blaming.


    From google map street view it looks like a 4 way stop with vacant lots at the corners. So how does the driver not see the cyclist? How does the cyclist, who is described as safe, not see an allegedly legally driven vehicle pull up and stop at the intersection? How does the car hit the guy hard enough to kill him when starting from a dead stop?

    I'd bet the vehicle was probably speeding and blew the sign.

  5. #5
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    ^ yeah, it's brutal. Why does someone flee the scene of a collision? Possibly because they're impaired (which can now never be proven or disproven)? Possibly because they were speeding or blew a stop sign (which the cyclist's video may or may not reveal).

    But hey, let's not be too hard on the driver who committed a felony. Instead let's publish an article blaming the cyclist, since their actions "might" have been a factor. For every cyclist who reads this article there are 30 drivers who see it and think "lousy cyclists."

    Edited to add:

    It's really worth looking at the googlemaps
    <iframe src="https://www.google.com/maps/embed?pb=!1m14!1m8!1m3!1d778.9900691332991!2d-90.2392891!3d38.649793700000004!3m2!1i1024!2i768!4 f13.1!3m3!1m2!1s0x87d8b4b395a74a17%3A0x2ed4d6b2f6a 3ab43!2s4099+E+Cook+Ave!5e0!3m2!1sen!2s!4v14041063 31804" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" style="border:0"></iframe>

    It's a tiny intersection. Even assuming that the cyclist did in fact "run" the stop sign, if the driver had legally stopped at the 4-way then they would have been going something like 5mph when they hit the cyclist. It would be like a collision in a walmart parking lot (and there's always the unfortunate chance that something like that could prove fatal, but it's pretty unlikely)

  6. #6
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    Some updates:

    Cyclists rally and car may have been drag racing:
    St. Louis cyclists rally after fatal hit-and-run : News

    Suspect surrenders, investigation continues:
    Suspect surrenders in hit-and-run death of cyclist in St. Louis : News

  7. #7
    NDD
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    Yeesh, that's about two blocks away from my brothers apartment. I read the comments section and I really regret that now. I don't trust the police's judgment on whether or not the cyclist "ran it". Nope, no way. The cyclist probably assumed everyone was going to follow the rules of the road, which is about the worst thing one can do.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    I read the comments section and I really regret that now.
    Want more regret? Read: Bicyclists have duty to follow rules : Stltoday

    This reminds me of pedestrian that was killed near where I live a few years ago. They were crossing on a green, a car ran a red, hit them, and then fled the scene. All of the articles thought it was vitally important to mention that even though the pedestrian was crossing with the right-of-way, they "may have entered the intersection when the 'don't walk' sign was lit."

    So the pedestrian <i>may</i> have committed the most minor of all possible traffic infractions. (And who knows, the pedestrian <i>may</i> also have been Hitler?)
    But the driver <i>definitely</i> ran a red, <i>definitely</i> hit someone, and <i>definitely</i> fled the scene.
    Ergo, obviously the problem is that pedestrians don't obey the law.

  9. #9
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    In stl, the problem is hipsters. I swear I'm not trying to be an internet troll. They ride bikes any which way with no lights, no clue what's happening around them, and no consideration for anyone. They make cyclists look bad. So drivers get irate and then they blame cyclists for everything. Really though, people in stl are mad a lot. Like, a lot a lot.

    So as much as it's a cyclist problem, it's a driver problem, too because they also choose to ignore rules and instigate aggressive interactions.

  10. #10
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    It's just when you see a group of guys ride away from a bar at night with no lights then swerve through traffic and run red lights, you sort of just have to shake your head and admit those guys are a big part if the problem.

  11. #11
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    ^ oh, I have no doubt that there are terrible cyclists. Of course there are terrible cyclists. Just like there are terrible pedestrians, volkswagon drivers, and people named "George."

    But this particular instance is blaming a safety conscious cyclist who may have committed a minor traffic violation (a traffic violation that 99.9% of drivers probably commit daily) compared to a driver who definitely fled an accident, apparently may have been racing, and (based on how small that intersection is) almost certainly also ran the stopsign.

    I really hope that someone sues one of these stupid newspapers and police departments for slander. That would maybe make editors and communications departments think twice about being such idiots.

  12. #12
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    Agreed. The whole situation is just plain wrong. It's also piss poor journalism and short sighed bias. The guy should be alive right now and it's not fair to blame him right away because his voice was snuffed out in the matter.

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    Oh, and I said it up top, but that letter to the editor (plus the various comments sections) just confirms it:

    For every cyclist who reads this article there are 30 drivers who see it and think "lousy cyclists."

    That's the problem. I'd greatly prefer to have less of those people on the roads with me, but articles like this (major crime committed by driver = minor infraction possibly committed by cyclist, duh) happily create more every day.

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    The whole conversation needs to be changed. Every conversation about cars, bikes, and pedestrians always has cars placed on this pedestal of obeying the vehicle and traffic laws while bikes and pedestrians are by the rule law breakers. Look at the roads, if you can find me a motorist that can drive more than 5 miles without breaking a traffic law, I'll give you a million bucks, they just don't exist. Motor vehicles are constantly breaking rules and able to inflict the most damage, but its just accepted as the norm. It's the same way safety equipment on the bicycle is almost always brought up, but never on the car.


    Now the cops are saying he "rolled" through the intersection. Yea, a bike rolling through an intersection is equivalent to blowing a stop sign. The guy probably could have stopped the bike in a foot or two if he was going slow enough to be described as a "roll". Sorry officer, but I'm not going to come to a dead stop most of the time. I have to work for my speed, whereas the motorist just drops their fat hoof on the pedal and they start going again.

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    The violence inflicted by motorists and vehicles is normalized. It's perfectly acceptable for 30,000+ people/year dying because of automobiles. Yet, it's front page news any time someone dies from gun violence. The difference: automobile deaths are nearly 3 times greater than gun deaths.

    There is a systemic failure to make motorists understand the consequences of operating a motor vehicle. The failure doesn't stop there; concessions given to motorists are too great. Speed limits are too high for the safety of anyone but those inside a motor vehicle; traffic laws are under-enforced and the punishment for violators is too lax.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    The violence inflicted by motorists and vehicles is normalized.
    This is way more right than most people believe. Years ago I studied Psycho/Neuro Plasticity, but we called it 'The Physiology of Psychology'. At any rate, the violence by cars (against all others, including other cars) has been normalized for us and we are sure that this is the way it is supposed to be. We know this is true because it has always been this way. And all this is possible without corrupting a single person. These are good people who know they are right. This is why the abused become abusers, and the horribly victimized will allow the abuse to permeate, and repeat, thru out their whole life. I'm not talking about heady things. This is nuts and bolts Psychology. Over and out.
    "It's not that bicycling is so important, it is that everything else is equally unimportant."-Bruce Ohlson.

  17. #17
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    Wicked logic. Thank you for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskare View Post
    This is way more right than most people believe. Years ago I studied Psycho/Neuro Plasticity, but we called it 'The Physiology of Psychology'. At any rate, the violence by cars (against all others, including other cars) has been normalized for us and we are sure that this is the way it is supposed to be. We know this is true because it has always been this way. And all this is possible without corrupting a single person. These are good people who know they are right. This is why the abused become abusers, and the horribly victimized will allow the abuse to permeate, and repeat, thru out their whole life. I'm not talking about heady things. This is nuts and bolts Psychology. Over and out.

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