City of Flagstaff Transit vs. Cyclist- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    City of Flagstaff Transit vs. Cyclist

    Interesting recording of an incident between a city bus driver and a cyclist in Flagstaff, AZ. It is scary that the bus drivers, their supervisiors and the cops do not know the laws or care about cyclists saftey!

    http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/12/22/f...ff-vs-cyclist/

    From: BGR
    Riding to work early Saturday morning 12-19-09. I was “buzzed” by a City of Flagstaff transit bus. I had moved to the left side of the bicycle lane to avoid a pile of snow. The bus chose to come within a foot of me, even though their was no other traffic within blocks. I followed the bus to the main transit center. I took a photo of the license plate, and tried to get a good photo of the driver. I then followed the bus riders on the bus in order to get a better photo. The driver soon realized that I wasn’t there for a ride. The following is some of the incident that I recorded on my phone.

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    Last edited by mcoplea; 12-23-2009 at 03:04 PM.
    Marty

  2. #2
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    It's sad when you hear or read a list of goals for almost any cycling advocacy group and one of the items is educating local law enforcement on rights of cyclists. An outside, non-profit group has to teach them about their own job? Be careful out there folks, you're really and truly on your own.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  3. #3
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    Yep, law enforcement in Arizona is horrible when it comes to cyclists. As far as I can recall the only time they've expressed concern about even the death of a cyclist was when it was an off duty officer. I've been 'buzzed' by patrol cars in Tucson.. within a 1/4mile of a sign proclaiming it to be a "bicycle friendly city" . It does not surprise me that Flag's any different.
    mike

  4. #4
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    I think it's time to make a hard copy of every relevant law in the area you're in, city AND state, and tuck it safely away in your gear. Then, WHEN -- NOT IF -- this happens again, you have the ammunition you need.

    I'm not just saying YOU, OP -- I'm talking to everyone here, myself included. This will happen for me within about 30 days (and only that long because I don't have access to a printer here at home, and the weather is a bit too $h!tty where I live for a trip to the library).

    You only have ONE you, and YOU have to take care of YOU.
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  5. #5
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    I think it's time to make a hard copy of every relevant law in the area you're in, city AND state, and tuck it safely away in your gear. Then, WHEN -- NOT IF -- this happens again, you have the ammunition you need.
    That's definitely something I need to start doing. I've heard all kinds of stories from people getting hassled by law enforcement for committing alleged violations that conflict with the actual law.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    I think it's time to make a hard copy of every relevant law in the area you're in, city AND state, and tuck it safely away in your gear. Then, WHEN -- NOT IF -- this happens again, you have the ammunition you need.
    If you look around, there may already be a "cheat sheet" like that for your area. I have a small booklet with condensed versions of the state laws pertaining to bicycles (printed by my county transportation dept) that a bike cop gave me once when I asked him a few traffic law related questions. Anyway, if I were ever in a situation similar to the one in this thread, I`m not sure whether it wold be better to leave it in my saddle bag or break it out. If you were to show it to a cop, I bet he wouldn`t be very happy about getting a legal lesson from the guy he was arguing with and you`d end up in court just the same. In the court room, I seriously doubt the judge would have any need for my little condensed law handout book since the full strength unabridged version would be on hand. That`s my thought, anyway.
    Recalculating....

  7. #7
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    The street they are talking about is a cyclist's nightmare. A student was killed by a City recycling truck a couple months ago on that road (I'm not sure whose fault it was demeaned, they wouldn't suggest fault when it happened). My friend was also ticketed by an officer for not using the bike lane that was clearly tore up for construction this summer. He is currently fighting it with pictures and everything but it looks like he will lose.

  8. #8
    weirdo
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    Good luck to your buddy, Jmmorath- that sucks. That was on the same Flagstaff street?
    Recalculating....

  9. #9
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    As a Flagstaff resident and fair weather commuter (i know, i know), I would make sure that the Flagstaff Biking Organization and the Mayor have a record of this. I wish you the best and be safe out there!

  10. #10
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    More and more places are getting crossed off my bucket list due to crap like this; now Flag falls by the wayside....

    Maybe I'll just take a hotel room there and do the North Rim....
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  11. #11
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    Incredible. This must be a universal issue, as I've had more near misses with busses than with cars. If I see a bus coming, I look for the best way to avoid it. I've exchanged words with bus drivers as well, but it never makes any difference. I'll have to read up on the ARS for bike laws. Thanks for the heads up.
    Just Ride!

  12. #12
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt bk
    Incredible. This must be a universal issue, as I've had more near misses with busses than with cars. If I see a bus coming, I look for the best way to avoid it. I've exchanged words with bus drivers as well, but it never makes any difference. I'll have to read up on the ARS for bike laws. Thanks for the heads up.
    Bus drivers are like taxi drivers, they don't drive the vehicle, they just aim it where ever they want to go and step on the gas as if they were playing Grand Theft Auto. Doesn't matter who's in the way; vehicle, cyclist, pedestrian, mailbox, lamp post, etc....
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  13. #13
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    There are some good bus drivers then there are the ones that are such huge a$$ holes that they just look for a fight. Some of these guys just love the harass cyclists.
    I ride at ludicrous speed

  14. #14
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt bk
    Incredible. This must be a universal issue, as I've had more near misses with busses than with cars. If I see a bus coming, I look for the best way to avoid it. I've exchanged words with bus drivers as well, but it never makes any difference. I'll have to read up on the ARS for bike laws. Thanks for the heads up.
    City buses have never been a problem; they've always been courteous. SCHOOL buses, though, are the nightmare! Some of the worst drivers I've ever seen!
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  15. #15
    No-Brakes Cougar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    City buses have never been a problem; they've always been courteous. SCHOOL buses, though, are the nightmare! Some of the worst drivers I've ever seen!
    Ironically (or maybe not), the short bus drivers are some of the worst of all. I used to live across the street from a couple who were both short bus drivers. Quite a piece of work, the both of them.
    R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio ~ July 10, 1942 – May 16, 2010

  16. #16
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    hmmm, bus drivers are asses everywhere. good to know. we just had a bus driver crush the pelvis of a pedestrian on a sturday by my office. On Monday they were running reds at the same intersection. I bought a nice camera mount and am going to start taping them running reds and start posting them. Anger rising......

  17. #17
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    As if he didn't ruin your day already by buzzing you, he has to add insult to injury by displaying mind-numbing ignorance of 2 weheeled vehicles' rights. You may have more luck with the city's equivalent of insurance loss prevention officer than the police, the people concerned about limiting the city's liability...after all it could get expensive to run over people that have a right to the road! Maybe they could make the transit dept. send all the drivers back to school for extra training on bike issues.

    I take my bike on the bus rack & the drivers are generally very nice whether I'm on the bus or they are passing me. I did get a wake up call last week though - I was still on the bus, it was snowing, and a guy HAD to get into his parked car that second while the bus was going by - we all, including the driver, commented on his DODO move. Then she said she worries about her mirrors hitting someone because they are big & stick out - "especially cyclists" she added, as I pictured the mirror smacking a biker in the back of the head - Yikes!

    A good easy reading source for how cars & buses should be treating us in in your state's DMV drivers' manual. I expected just a couple lines on bicycles but got all this & more in VT:
    Sharing the Road with Bicyclists
    The number of bicycles on streets and highways is growing daily, both for exercise and transportation use. In summer, large groups of bicyclists present a special hazard for motorists. Under state law bicyclists have the right to operate on all roads, unless they are specially prohibited, such as on limited- access highways like the Interstate.
    The same traffic rules and regulations for vehicle drivers apply to bicyclists. Bicycles, however, are quieter and less visible than other vehicles, especially at night. As a motorist you should drive defensively around a bicyclist because the slightest mistake could cause serious injury or death. When you approach a bicyclist, keep on the lookout and slow down. Give them plenty of room when passing and be prepared to stop suddenly. Do not honk at a bicyclist unless you have good cause to warn them. The loud noise could startle the rider and cause them to lose control. It is important to remember that bicyclists have the same rights and duties as motor vehicle operators. To avoid conflict, drivers of motor vehicles need to know the rules:
    Driver Responsibilities
    ��
    Share the road with bicyclists; they have a legal right to ride on the road. Drivers must be courteous and cautious even if it takes a little longer.
    Be aware that bicyclists should ride with traffic as far to the right as practical or safe.
    ��
    In some instances it is safest for a bicyclist to “command the lane” by riding toward the center of the lane. There may be reasons for the bicyclist to be riding in the travel lane, such as roadway hazards not visible to motorists, or to position themselves correctly in the proper travel lane.
    ��
    Learn to recognize situations and obstacles which may be hazardous to cyclists, such as potholes, drain grates and narrow bridges or roadways. Give them adequate space to maneuver.
    ��
    Be aware that when a bicyclist is making a left turn, the cyclist should signal and move to the left side of the lane or into the turning lane. This is the proper maneuver and the cyclist should be allowed to safely complete the turn before being overtaken by motor vehicle traffic.
    ��
    Leave at least four feet of passing space between the right side of your vehicle and a bicyclist. If the road is too narrow for motor vehicles and bicycles to ride safely side by side, wait until it is safe to pass the bicyclist without forcing them off the side of the road.
    ��
    Be aware that two bicyclists may legally ride side by side. Slow down until it is safe to pass, or give them time to adjust their position. Even then, do not pass the bicyclists until it is safe.
    ��
    When turning left at an intersection, yield to oncoming bicyclists just as you would yield to oncoming motorists. Bicyclists may be traveling faster than you realize, so give them adequate space.
    Common Vehicle-caused Collisions with Bicycles
    Four common errors could cause you to strike a bicyclist:
    1. Turning left without noticing/yielding to an oncoming bicyclist.
    2. Turning right at an intersection or driveway without checking for a bicyclist on the right who is continuing straight ahead or coming off a sidewalk.
    3. Entering or crossing a street without checking for a bicyclist in the street or on the sidewalk.
    4. Opening a vehicle door into the path of a bicyclist

    Bicyclists Responsibilities
    Bicyclists are valid road users and have all the rights and responsibilities of other vehicle drivers. Although a license isn’t required to drive a bicycle, bicyclists must obey all the rules of the road. Bicycles are allowed to ride two abreast so long as they do not impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic. Obey the following rules for a safe and legal cycling experience:
    ��
    Obey all traffic signals and signs. If you break any traffic laws, you are subject to a ticket and fines.
    ��
    Ride with traffic. Always ride with through traffic on the right side of the road, not on the sidewalk. If you approach a right turn lane and intend to go straight, do not enter the right turn lane
    ��
    Ride in a predictable manner. Always ride straight and be predictable. If the road is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel side by side, the bicyclist should occupy the lane until it is safe to move back to the right. Check over your shoulder before changing your lane position and do not weave between parked vehicles.
    ��
    Signaling turns. You must always signal your intent to turn, using the proper hand signals. Look to make sure lanes are clear of traffic before you make a lane change or turn.
    Bicycle Hand Signal

  18. #18
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    wow i hope you take this to court and win.

  19. #19
    Frt Range, CO
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    Man, I had to stop listening, when the freaking supervisors and cops don't have a clue, we are truely eff'ed. I give up with the debates, I learning to just go on my way. On bad road sections I just take the lane and let them honk and cuss....

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