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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Bike security?

    So I just got an expensive cruiser to commute to school, downtown shopping, and bar hopping. I need the most secure way to lock up my bike! I've been doing alot of research and found the most secure way to lock up a bike in public is to use a 16mm chain. The UK seems to be the only company that supplies these thick case hardened chains. Does anyone else know of anyone in the USA that makes these type of chains? Or have any suggestions of ways to secure a bicycle in a public place? I live in the 5th highest rated city for bicycle theft in the USA. I would rather spend the money on a crop proof chain than regret not spending enough.

    What is everyones solution to this problem?! Have you had any thefts and what were you using to lock your bike up with?

    Here are the chains im looking at. I know they are heavy, but I will carry a bicycle luggage rack with a ammo box holding my chain and lock. I just hate that I need to order these from the UK and pay the crazy shipping costs! Does anyone have any experience with these chains or know any other options? Thanks.

    Almax Immobiliser Series III
    All Products --- Almax Security Chains Ltd

    Pragmasis Protector 16mm Chain
    Security Products


    I was looking at smaller chains at first, but after seeing these videos I want to resist all but the most proffessional criminals, and their power tools. You would think these thefts would be done privately, or if it was done in the open someone would stop them, but NO!!


    Then here is a forum I found these videos on and other info and videos....
    MY GUIDE: Bike Security (Copyright ©) - Pinkbike Forum


    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J7zb8YXrmIA?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UGttmR2DTY8?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    <object width='500' height='281'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/266500/l/' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/266500/l/' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='281' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always'></embed></object><p><a href='http://www.pinkbike.com/video/266500/'>Gone in 60 secs Parts 1 & 2 (LETS FIGHT BIKE CRIME)</a> on <a href='http://www.pinkbike.com'>Pinkbike</a></p>

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EiXphQBYpBE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  2. #2
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    See what your local hardware store has - you might be surprised .
    I bought a 4 ft long chain that's about 1/2 inch thick and a decent masterlock (case hardened) from one in my town. It is rather bulky, but it definitely does its job - you'd need very large bolt cutters to even attempt at breaking it.
    If you can, register your bike.

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    Home Depot sells masterlock metal ropes that come in different thicknesses or lenghts and they have a loop at the end so that you can use any lock you like. I bought a pretty hefty one and 2 rubberized locks to go with it.

    Don't get to comfortable thinking that no one will be able to steal it though, since at the end of the day it all comes down which item will yield the greatest profit for the least amount of work to a thief.

    Main reason why I never buy a real expensive bike and the reason I bought a folder for those day where I'm just not comfortable enough leaving it outside.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by asval View Post
    Home Depot sells masterlock metal ropes that come in different thicknesses or lenghts and they have a loop at the end so that you can use any lock you like. I bought a pretty hefty one and 2 rubberized locks to go with it.

    Don't get to comfortable thinking that no one will be able to steal it though, since at the end of the day it all comes down which item will yield the greatest profit for the least amount of work to a thief.

    Main reason why I never buy a real expensive bike and the reason I bought a folder for those day where I'm just not comfortable enough leaving it outside.
    Yeah - I almost forgot about Home Depot!
    And you are right about that - there is no such thing as a "thief-proof" lock. All the jerk needs is time and the right tools.

  5. #5
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    Kryptonite

    Scroll down for highest crime area chains/locks. Top ones $100+

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    The options from home depot or lowes are easy for someone to cut through. If you watch those videos, it takes a few seconds for someone to cut those and no one cares....

    That kryptonite new york legend chain is pretty big at 15mm, but I read a review on it and its made with lead and has a warning to wash your hands after handling the chain. Thats not practical for me!

    Ive narrowed down to a Zena XUL310, which is a 18mm u-lock with a 110db alarm. To lock my front wheel to the frame along with a XSU210 to lock my rear wheel to the frame.

    Bullett-Lock Alarms

    Then a 16mm chain. Lockitt.com Protector 16mm High Security Hardened Boron Steel chain - 6.5' (2m) length

    Im going to put them all in a ammo box on a luggage rack. Hopefully, the theives will just walk away. I am commuting with my 36er cruiser, as you can see in the middle. Compared to my road bike and 29er mountain bike, my bike isnt inconspicuous!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bike security?-2012-07-23_14-32-10_508.jpg  


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    I've been doing alot of research and found the most secure way to lock up a bike in public is to use a 16mm chain. The UK seems to be the only company that supplies these thick case hardened chains. Does anyone else know of anyone in the USA that makes these type of chains?

    I just hate that I need to order these from the UK and pay the crazy shipping costs! Does anyone have any experience with these chains or know any other options?
    Hardened chain isn`t cheap, and you`re talking about some really big gauge stock. I was told offhand that every time we change out the 20 ft or so of 3/8 hardened chain in one of our cylinder hoists at work it costs over US1200. You can try companies specializing in hoists or rigging, like this one:
    Rigging.com: Chain Sling Basket
    16mm is roughly 5/8 inch. If that really is industrial grade hardened chain, good luck geting it for less than the price in your links.
    (links, haha!)

  8. #8
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    A portable angle grinder will go through pretty much anything, including a hardened chain? So I've got the mentality that I can't possibly stop all thieves, but I can try to stop most of them. Rather than going for a big chain I've got one of the mini u-locks and a cable for my wheels. That puts me ahead of most bikes out there, but if I was super-concerned I would maybe add a second u-lock.

    It might also be worth taking a look at the tigrlock. They're very pricey, but they sure seem more convenient than a chain or a large ulock. My main concern with the tigr is that it's basically brand new, so there hasn't been much time for bad reviews to surface. The demos on their website are impressive, though (while acknowledging that no lock is unbreakable):

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8uw5ALXQous" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    So I just got an expensive cruiser to commute to school, downtown shopping, and bar hopping.
    Get a cheap bike for Bar hopping

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    That titanium bike lock is interesting, Im surprised those large bolt cutters wont cut it. Maybe a smaller set of bolt cutters would have less clearance between the jaws and cut it easily.

    I just got my cruiser primarily for commuting, but now Im thinking it was a bad idea I may have to get a cheap bike for that.

    I like this product that tracks your bike if if detects movement and will send you a text message and update its location. This might be my best investment, if all my security devices fail. I may have a chance of recovering it. For $160 shipped, it seems like a reasonable price for piece of mind.

    Motorcycle and Bicycle GPS Trackers - Products

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    ^ not sure if you saw it, but the TiGR folks have another video focussed more on boltcutters: John attacks the TiGr with bolt cutters (again), tin snips, and a car jack - YouTube

    I'm pretty sure I'll get one eventually, but am kind of waiting for them to be out in the wild for a bit first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    ^ not sure if you saw it, but the TiGR folks have another video focussed more on boltcutters: John attacks the TiGr with bolt cutters (again), tin snips, and a car jack - YouTube

    I'm pretty sure I'll get one eventually, but am kind of waiting for them to be out in the wild for a bit first.
    I saw that video, he didn't try to cut the bars horizontally with the different size bolt cutters. I bet cable cutters would cut right through that without slipping. Also a theif would just stick a crowbar or 2x4 through the lock and just twist is until that lock on the back pops off or fatigues the metal to failure. There needs to be a video of someone other than the own company testing this product.

    Cable cutters like this which are small enough to conceal and carry could cut that no problem, and it wont slip out. I don't think you can beat brute thickness and hardness.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O3NiQCe0cWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  13. #13
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    I like the TiGR locks. last I heard, cable cutters like the ones above were not standard equipment for bike thieves. availability of a tool like that is not exactly as widespread as standard bolt cutters, which absolutely are standard equipment for all but the laziest of bike thieves who go for unlocked bikes.

    I'm more curious how an angle grinder would fare on the TiGR.

    oh, but he did that.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8uw5ALXQous" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    There needs to be a video of someone other than the own company testing this product.
    I definitely agree.

    When they were first launching it they had a kickstarter site, and several people complained about the testing methods shown in the videos. The response was that of course they'd tried other stuff too, but there was never anything beyond that. And if you watch Using the TiGr lock - YouTube! it shows locking a bike to a parking meter...even though it sure seems like you should be able to lift the whole thing up and over the meter. But they also said that it's not a problem, but I don't think there was any follow up.

    Either way, it has been available for about 6 months now, and I can't find any negative reviews, but I'm still not convinced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    That titanium bike lock is interesting, Im surprised those large bolt cutters wont cut it. Maybe a smaller set of bolt cutters would have less clearance between the jaws and cut it easily.

    I just got my cruiser primarily for commuting, but now Im thinking it was a bad idea I may have to get a cheap bike for that.

    I like this product that tracks your bike if if detects movement and will send you a text message and update its location. This might be my best investment, if all my security devices fail. I may have a chance of recovering it. For $160 shipped, it seems like a reasonable price for piece of mind.

    Motorcycle and Bicycle GPS Trackers - Products
    I agree. But believe me, it wasn't so much a bad idea. I've seen pretty cheap bikes get stolen where I live.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    I definitely agree.

    When they were first launching it they had a kickstarter site, and several people complained about the testing methods shown in the videos. The response was that of course they'd tried other stuff too, but there was never anything beyond that. And if you watch Using the TiGr lock - YouTube! it shows locking a bike to a parking meter...even though it sure seems like you should be able to lift the whole thing up and over the meter. But they also said that it's not a problem, but I don't think there was any follow up.

    Either way, it has been available for about 6 months now, and I can't find any negative reviews, but I'm still not convinced.
    It's not flawless. Certainly you can get through it if you had an angle grinder or a hacksaw (and enough time). I am curious about the lock core, though. The Ti bow seems a design improvement, at least a fairly significant one against bolt cutters. Maybe less so against other methods.

    But what if you attacked the lock core? He mentions something about it being resistant to bumping and picking, but those are only a couple of methods. What about freezing and smashing? What about drilling? Is it any kind of improvement in those areas? It better be for how much the thing costs. Someone will eventually get their hands on some to do some independent destructive testing, I expect. I don't have that kind of budget, though.

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    ^^ The only testing they need is parking a good bike in a high bike crime area, and maybe a video camera.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecializedWindsor View Post
    I agree. But believe me, it wasn't so much a bad idea. I've seen pretty cheap bikes get stolen where I live.
    Im ording that tracker as soon as I hear back from them that their 23.5 model will fit well in my 25mm headtube. I ordered 3 Xena U-locks today and will order a almax chain when I can call them in the UK. Id rather go over kill than be sorry later.

    I would like to know what titanium alloy TiGr uses, that way we could compare the yield strength to tempered steel alloys. I wouldn't mind buying a piece of that titanium and giving it my own tests. The titanium will be lighter weight, but I think its more of a gimmic. I think if they actually made some lighter U-locks with comparable thickness made of titanium, that would be a great idea! But this was designed by a guy in his garage with limited tools and manufacturing processes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    ^^ The only testing they need is parking a good bike in a high bike crime area, and maybe a video camera.
    I'm a bit surprised that there don't seem to be any reports of someone having their tigr cracked and their bike stolen. The total number of tigrs out there must still be pretty low, but I'm surprised that some bike thief somewhere hasn't seen it as a challenge, and defeated one just to prove a point.

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    So Im going to register my bikes online for just the slim chance it will help if I need it. I found this page that discusses all the options available.

    Registering your bike

    One of the links on there is to Bike Shepherd - Bike Registration and Stolen Bike Alert which is pretty informative! You can view real thefts that are in your area, including a map with location, the time it occured, and in some cases how they broke through the security. The more you know about the thieves in your area, the more you can be a step ahead of most.

    Heres another site I found that wasnt mentioned on that other link. stolenbicycleregistry.com
    Its a free resource to register and track stolen bicycles.

    Also this site you can register for free and get free QR scan stickers like bikeshepard's.
    BikeGuard™: The Free Bike Registry
    Last edited by Aixtreme89; 07-24-2012 at 11:54 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    One of the links on there is to Bike Shepherd - Bike Registration and Stolen Bike Alert which is pretty informative! You can view real thefts that are in your area, including a map with location, the time it occured, and in some cases how they broke through the security. The more you know about the thieves in your area, the more you can be a step ahead of most.
    Thanks for that link! I'd never seen it before, but of all the various registration sites it does look pretty good. 6 reported thefts (for a total of 9 bikes) in my neck of the woods in the past month. Yikes. But most of those were from garages, and were presumably unlocked.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    Im ording that tracker as soon as I hear back from them that their 23.5 model will fit well in my 25mm headtube. I ordered 3 Xena U-locks today and will order a almax chain when I can call them in the UK. Id rather go over kill than be sorry later.

    I would like to know what titanium alloy TiGr uses, that way we could compare the yield strength to tempered steel alloys. I wouldn't mind buying a piece of that titanium and giving it my own tests. The titanium will be lighter weight, but I think its more of a gimmic. I think if they actually made some lighter U-locks with comparable thickness made of titanium, that would be a great idea! But this was designed by a guy in his garage with limited tools and manufacturing processes.
    It's always a good idea to go overkill when it comes to securing your bike . I don't know much about the titanium other than it will probably have the same strength as the steel.
    True indeed; but if he was experienced in metal working, it may actually be worth it, though it doesn't really sound like he is.
    In your case, I'd get both a decent chain/lock as well as a GPS tracking device...if you can afford it. I probably couldn't .
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aixtreme89 View Post
    So Im going to register my bikes online for just the slim chance it will help if I need it. I found this page that discusses all the options available.

    Registering your bike

    One of the links on there is to Bike Shepherd - Bike Registration and Stolen Bike Alert which is pretty informative! You can view real thefts that are in your area, including a map with location, the time it occured, and in some cases how they broke through the security. The more you know about the thieves in your area, the more you can be a step ahead of most.

    Heres another site I found that wasnt mentioned on that other link. stolenbicycleregistry.com
    Its a free resource to register and track stolen bicycles.

    Also this site you can register for free and get free QR scan stickers like bikeshepard's.
    BikeGuard™: The Free Bike Registry
    Excellent idea - and, if possible, register your bike to your bike company and-or to the shop you purchased it from.

    If (the Stars forbid) your bike does get stolen, contact you bike company, juststolen.net (they can also be reached at [email protected] or (781)-828-4332), and of course, your local police station. A photo of your bike and the original receipt for proof of purchase will be useful to track it down.
    "Be prepared, not scared"
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  24. #24
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    Seriously. There is only one singe thing bike thieves won't steal and thats big fat chain and padlock.

    Armored cable locks can be cut with a side plier when you exposed the inner cable, which you btw do with the same pliers! Just bend. It takes like 30 mseconds to defeat even the best ones with only a handtool, a small quiet hand tool.

    U-locks, can be good if they are correctly hardened, should be hard on the outside and soft in the middle, but still made from a steel filled with boron, vanadium, tungsten, chromium, nickel and all other things that makes life difficult for thieves. From the info I have gathered there are no really good u-locks. Some are pretty good though, like the most expensive abus and kryptonite. But these are very heavy, and its not like they fold up nicely.

    Chain and padlock is the best solution because the chain can be had perfectly heat treated for a lock, like the almax and pragmasis. You can't destroy them but whacking them (but they should not be left on the ground, thats just stupid), angle grinder takes several minutes and several disc changes, bolt cutters needs to be 1meter or larger and no thieves that steals bikes with pedals have that, they have what they can fit in a backpack. And even if they have a 1m bolt cutter its not even certain it will even cut the 13mm chains. And you can't saw these chains, they are either carburated, nitrided, or carbonitrided or nitrocarburated to hell, so the skin of the chain is super hard and resistant to whatever you throw at it.

    Also the closed shackle locks from squire are pretty much undefeatable in combination with one of the chains.

    Only pragmasis have 11 and 13 mm chains, and its extremely unlikely anyone will even attempt it with one of those, maybe they try to saw it or whatever but any cutting tool is just skidding on the surface like ice skates, they give up immediately, as opposed a hardware chain, where you can actually saw it with a hacksaw and some time.

    There are reviews of the pragmasis chains on bikeradar.

    The british ministry of defense buys pragmasis. I guess they like to keep their things.

    I did the same research about a year or so ago. And the only answer I came to was pragmasis since no one sane would be riding around with a 16mm chain. 11 and 13 are not that heavy in less than 1m lengths(+squire closed shackle), considering what they offer. And its not even expensive either considering the best abus and kryptonite prices (but abus and kryptonite are complete **** compared to the real stuff). Its actually cheap.

    They have weights posted on the pragmasis site for the different dimensions. Just put a few soda bottles in your back pack and see what you can handle for long rides. Then choose chain accordingly. I can tolerate a lock of about 2.5kg for long times, after a while you don't even notice it.

    I have noticed about 0.8m is a good length for a chain, its not very often you need 1m or more, and if you do then just park the bike somewhere else where it fits. The front wheel and saddle you do with a thin cable.

    And about the titanium locks. You gotta be ****ing kidding me! Everyone go to the scrapyard and buy titanium sheet, and on your way home buy a hacksaw and a carbide blade. Like fukcing butter!!! Just put some effort into it. Coarse carbide hacksaw is a very quick way of cutting titanium.

    I don't know about you guys but that piece he has in the video that he tries to angle grind, and fails doing so. Thats kinda weird, because I could easily have cut that peice in the vice in less than 5 seconds, because I know how to use an anglegrinder. On titanium (ANY titanium, even beta ti and all the real nightmare types) just hog down until its starts glowing at the disc and then its truly like cutting butter with a warm knife. Just saying...

    Don't be fooled by this, titanium, any titanium, is a highly unsuitable material for a lock. I would go steel lock every time, because I have extensive experience machining metals in all kinds of ways.

    There is no free lunch. You want to keep your bike secure? Then it cost money and is heavy, there is no way around it. But just beacuse it costs money and is heavy doesn't really mean its secure, even crap locks are heavy..
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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    Specialized sucks ass.

  25. #25
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    Yeah I'd like to add that compared to most locks that titanium lock is probably quite good. And the general bike thief will probably have some problems with it. Almost all people having only worked alu or crap steel will have problems with it, for a while.

    Also check out that almax chain cutting video on youtube and you'll see what I'm taking about. Almost everything on the market is just crap. No matter what standards and classes and grades it says it passes on the box. Its just fantasy.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    For about $240 if you go to lockitt.com and email them about getting an protector 13mm chain and a multlock they may set you up with a special deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Yeah I'd like to add that compared to most locks that titanium lock is probably quite good. And the general bike thief will probably have some problems with it. Almost all people having only worked alu or crap steel will have problems with it, for a while.

    Also check out that almax chain cutting video on youtube and you'll see what I'm taking about. Almost everything on the market is just crap. No matter what standards and classes and grades it says it passes on the box. Its just fantasy.
    Please post the video.

  28. #28
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    Non-Almax security chains for bikes vs Bolt Croppers - YouTube abus, squire, kryptonite (all ****) being cut.

    Almax Series III and IV chains for bikes vs Bolt Croppers - YouTube almax not being cut at all.

    These people are professionals.

    And look how superior the almax is in this video, the thinner chains are just as superior in their respective thicknesses. Its trickles down. They get the exact same heat treatment and is the same material. I've had long discussions with the pragmasis guy and they don't cut any corners, they should be 100% comparable to almax if not better.

    An 11mm chain might not look very beefy but try cutting one. I think the 13mm if seriously overkill for most places, and it weighs alot too. for the 13mm one would need a 1m bolt cutter, for the 11 a slightly smaller one. But nobody is running around with tools like that.

    If anyone is determined to steal your bike they will, but they have to be really really determined then. Like plasma cutter determined, or arc welder, beefy angle grinder (no battery crap), hydraulic bolt cutters and similar. and you need mains power for all of those and they are not exactly stealthy equipment. They can also use a oxy acetylene torch (big one, big tubes), or thermite.

    But all these things are very very likely to damage the bike beyond repair while stealing it so its not very likely this will ever happen unless you have a 10k bike, and even then its highly unlikely, but doable. I would trust a 10k bike with a 13mm pragmasis, nothings gonna happen there. Probably even an 11mm would do just fine 99% of the time. And you need to cut them twice to get away with the bike.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Oh, I thought you had vid of the Almax being cropped.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Oh, I thought you had vid of the Almax being cropped.
    You would need seriously beefy equipment to pull it off. It definitely would need external power of some sort, or if its being hydraulic you would need to pump for ages and ages.

    Holmatro makes cutters that can be hand powered, and we have hytorc at work for tighening bolts to like 20000nm, and yes thats nautical miles , they probably have some product that can cut it or knows of one since they are in the hydraulic business. Maybe enerpac too.

    Apart from that I find it extremely unlikely you will ever cut such a chain. Its just not gonna happen, you either break the cutter or your body while trying.

    Forget about it. And its ironic kryptonite uses this as brand name when their **** got cut in like 2 seconds. And they probably heat treats the smaller diameter stuff just the same, brittle crapola.

    I just find it interesting that only 2 makers on the entire planet manages to make seriously good stuff in this market. But hey the squire chain lasted over a minute, so that makes it almost acceptably good.

    Sorry for derailing the thread with my bs, I just wanted to have my say since I like this topic. I found it kinda relevant since what I don't know about metals, steel and its heat treatment in particular, you could fit on an a4 page, the entire page

    Basically abus and kryptonite are trying to rip us off. Long live the queen.

    You guys should look up "captain cropper" on the net. He's the one doing the chain cutting in the videos. I have seen comments from him on bikeradar (kryptonite locks), follow his advice, he knows his ****.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  31. #31
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    You Can Park Your Bike, but at What Price?

    You Can Park Your Bike, but at What Price? - NYTimes.com

    Yes, this pic is for real, read the story....
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  32. #32
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    Does anyone use GPS locators for their bikes? a small GPS inside the frame or handlebars or seatpost (+ a u lock) seems to be the ideal option. Plus you would get to bust a bike thief.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    You Can Park Your Bike, but at What Price? - NYTimes.com

    Yes, this pic is for real, read the story....
    starting the price out high isn't exactly the way to attract business. looks like these garages are intentionally trying to drive away bicycles. after all, isn't one of the attractions of biking in a large urban area like that the reduction in parking expenses?

    seems to me if they put the cost low, they'd be able to ATTRACT business from bicycle commuters and actually make more money per space than renting it to drivers.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post

    Chain and padlock is the best solution because the chain can be had perfectly heat treated for a lock, like the almax and pragmasis. You can't destroy them but whacking them (but they should not be left on the ground, thats just stupid), angle grinder takes several minutes and several disc changes, bolt cutters needs to be 1meter or larger and no thieves that steals bikes with pedals have that, they have what they can fit in a backpack. And even if they have a 1m bolt cutter its not even certain it will even cut the 13mm chains. And you can't saw these chains, they are either carburated, nitrided, or carbonitrided or nitrocarburated to hell, so the skin of the chain is super hard and resistant to whatever you throw at it.

    y..
    CAR BONE, great stuff, just wished you could convert to US products for us!

  35. #35
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    this thread makes me sad. people are always stealing my stuff. i've lost 4 nice bikes over the years, all BMX bikes.

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