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  1. #1
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    Where are you going to retire?

    I have a few years to go before the kids are out of the house, but the planning is starting.

    Staying in CO, most likely, maybe not. What part of the state has the best riding, best weather, and reasonable distance to skiing? Carbondale? Durango? Utah?

    All I know is I gotta get out of Denver.

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    AZ if you want year round riding...


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    I think honkinunit would recommend Moab.
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    I hear Durango a lot, but know nothing about it...except Bob Roll lives there.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jardo View Post
    AZ if you want year round riding...
    The OP asked for skiing and the skiing isn't great in AZ. Yes, there is skiing but it's nothing to write home about.

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    Good Question.. Kind of in the same boat depending on a few things.

    We have 2.5 years until youngest is out of high school, hoping to be able to sell our house in 5 ish years? (who knows, so many factors involved.. economy.. value.. etc).

    We need to be semi close to the Denver area to continue to run our business however.

    Carbondale is cool, but proximity to Aspen makes it pricey..

    Salida/BV.. has blown up..

    New Mexico?
    BBZ

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    World According to Briggs

    This guy has his own metrics in ranking places/towns/states. Not saying I agree with him but he does bring a different perspective

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCec...gj6KH5g/videos
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  8. #8
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    Springs


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    If I told you, I'd have to kill you.


  10. #10
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    Just got some land and moved East of Salida but always looking around and sniffing about Cortez (West and South)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    This guy has his own metrics in ranking places/towns/states. Not saying I agree with him but he does bring a different perspective

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCec...gj6KH5g/videos
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH94uIr6x9w

    LOL...10 worst towns in CO -

    10 Fruita
    8 Cortez
    4 Delta
    3 Rifle
    2 Gunnison

    Funny. Lots of "F' schools which is a sad commentary on this state.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    I think honkinunit would recommend Moab.
    LMAO.

    But seriously, folks. If you are considering Moab, look *very* carefully at what is going on there. There are 4000 acres just south of town that are owned by SITLA (state trust land manager) and they are full speed ahead on developing that to more than double the number of people in "Moab". The area is facing huge water supply issues if that happens, maybe even if it doesn't happen. The city itself revealed in September that they need $70 Million to replace all of the water and sewer lines, which are mostly 50-60 years old. 6000 people to cover a $70 million shortfall, and both the city and the county are already way underwater on their budgets. Taxes will be going up. Now, just last week, there was a suggestion that they need to extend downtown all the way to the bridge so that they can have more restaurants and stores to bring in more tax revenue so they don't have to nick every house for a $10,000 tax assessment. But wait, none of the development there has ever covered its true costs, so where does that all end up?

    Have fun in Moab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I hear Durango a lot, but know nothing about it...except Bob Roll lives there.
    We looked at Durango. Here are the reasons we rejected it:

    1) Basically everything north/west/east of town is in the deep red fire zone. Your homeowner's insurance is going to be expensive, and someday, maybe not even available.
    2) South and east, the area is pockmarked with oil/gas wells. Seriously, look at a Google Earth view. See all of the little brown rectangles? Every one of those is a well. No thanks.

    Right in town the prices are ridiculous, nearly California/Boulder levels.

    The triangle formed by Mancos/Dolores/Cortez is awesome. Irrigation water, uncrowded, great weather, incredible views, trails, Mesa Verde, etc. However, so many people are bailing on Durango and moving over to Mancos that the prices there are going up 10-20% per year. You also have some fire danger over there, depending on exactly where the house is situated. Also, some areas have no local water system, and wells are very difficult. If you see a house that looks like a great deal, it may be on a cistern. Also, the cell phone and internet availability are spotty.

  14. #14
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    If things work out right, Hokkaido Japan.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    LMAO.

    But seriously, folks. If you are considering Moab, look *very* carefully at what is going on there. There are 4000 acres just south of town that are owned by SITLA (state trust land manager) and they are full speed ahead on developing that to more than double the number of people in "Moab". The area is facing huge water supply issues if that happens, maybe even if it doesn't happen. The city itself revealed in September that they need $70 Million to replace all of the water and sewer lines, which are mostly 50-60 years old. 6000 people to cover a $70 million shortfall, and both the city and the county are already way underwater on their budgets. Taxes will be going up. Now, just last week, there was a suggestion that they need to extend downtown all the way to the bridge so that they can have more restaurants and stores to bring in more tax revenue so they don't have to nick every house for a $10,000 tax assessment. But wait, none of the development there has ever covered its true costs, so where does that all end up?

    Have fun in Moab.
    Why do you hate capitalism and 'Murca??

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Why do you hate capitalism and 'Murca??
    He combines the best of "get off my lawn" and "not in my back yard" encompassing the entire US of A.
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  17. #17
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    My understanding is Moab spends the lions share of it's existing revenue on more advertising and could have paid for the plumbing project many times over years back. At least that's what a local was griping about on Ahab. The traffic this past fall was eye opening. I've been going there religiously since 92-93 and I've never experienced it like that. Has me questioning if my Moab run is over with.

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  18. #18
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    I've been checking out a lot of Japan vids

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    My understanding is Moab spends the lions share of it's existing revenue on more advertising and could have paid for the plumbing project many times over years back. At least that's what a local was griping about on Ahab. The traffic this past fall was eye opening. I've been going there religiously since 92-93 and I've never experienced it like that. Has me questioning if my Moab run is over with.

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    Moab is obligated by Utah state law to spend a large amount of their tourism tax revenues on advertising. The old adage about the first rule of holes: "When in one, stop digging" comes to mind. Except locally they are being forced to dig deeper.

    https://moabtimes.com/2019/03/27/gizler-travel-council-has-little-leeway-on-how-tourism-taxes-are-spent/



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Moab is obligated by Utah state law to spend a large amount of their tourism tax revenues on advertising. The old adage about the first rule of holes: "When in one, stop digging" comes to mind. Except locally they are being forced to dig deeper.

    https://moabtimes.com/2019/03/27/gizler-travel-council-has-little-leeway-on-how-tourism-taxes-are-spent/


    That's ludicrous. 1.9 million of a 2.4 million budget spent on advertising? Holy smokes. Hey Moab, pretty sure the word is out. Regardless and even pertaining to the needed plumbing project Moab is in a catch 22. The more they build, the worse their problems will become.

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  21. #21
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    Might check out 50 plus.There is a retirement discussion with over 600 responses last time i looked.

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    While I am enjoying my time here, once the kids graduate from HS, I’m heading back to North Vancouver or Squamish.

  23. #23
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    ^^ Aren't those places $$$? As in, even more so than here?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedyd View Post
    Might check out 50 plus.There is a retirement discussion with over 600 responses last time i looked.
    I was going to suggest this as well. I have family in Durango...and just to the East in Bayfield. They are actually removing many of the wells now that BP is pulling out but I still wouldn't want to live out that way since you're constantly going into Durango.

    I'm guessing/assuming that yours be able to "cash out" in Denver and go to most of Durango. Like everywhere else, they are building more and more homes on smaller lots which make things more affordable at the expense of your privacy. All things considered, I'd probably look into the Fruita/GJ/Palisade area myself if I going to Colorado. Tons of obviously great riding, easy access to Moab and ski resorts not too far off. I know the flights aren't cheap but they also have a "real" airport to get out of town via Denver.
    Carpe Diem!!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    ^^ Aren't those places $$$? As in, even more so than here?
    I lived in the NW as a kid (Tacoma, WA) and I didn't know what it was like to have a tan till I moved here. I remember really tall trees and a lot of rain. If I moved to the NW now it'd have to be tending towards the eastern part, sort of on the cusp of the wet side and the dry side.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    ^^ Aren't those places $$$? As in, even more so than here?
    Yes.. so expensive there.. and I guess he is Canadian? Can't really live there without being Canadian, even then its hard if your spouse isn't (Know people dealing with that currently)
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMWTP View Post
    I have a few years to go before the kids are out of the house, but the planning is starting.

    Staying in CO, most likely, maybe not. What part of the state has the best riding, best weather, and reasonable distance to skiing? Carbondale? Durango? Utah?

    All I know is I gotta get out of Denver.

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    Personally, I'd think hard about BV/Salida. Yeah, it has gotten more expensive and more crowded. That's what happens to ideal locations. Great riding for quite a bit of the year, reasonable distance to Monarch, Crested Butte, Cooper. Sunny. I have land and a tiny cabin near BV, so I've spent a lot of time there. Yeah, it has changed over the past 15 years, but where hasn't?

    I've spent some time in Durango. Cool place, too, but pretty far away from everywhere else (could be a plus or a minus). Good riding. Good skiing. Rising costs.

    I have a part-time place in Dillon. I actually really like visiting there. Living there full time, the tourists might drive me nuts. Plus, mud season is significant and full-on riding season can be short. Skiing is, of course, world-class. And, affordable housing is a challenge to find. Although equivalents to our 1 bedroom condo have gone for less than 250k in the past 5 years. Patience can be a virtue. We got our 20% ownership for 25k. Yes, 25k. HOA fees are reasonable, too. They can be killer on deals in Summit.

    I suspect I'll keep my house in Monument and have another abode for fun. Monument provides everything I need, except for skiing. Sucks donkey to get anywhere with current and future traffic. Riding is stellar and fairly uncrowded. Political climate might be a significant turn-off if you are liberal, like to argue, and can't get along with those who don't share your views.
    Last edited by baker; 12-18-2019 at 08:28 AM.
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  28. #28
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    Baker mentions HOA costs. If you are moving into a condo or "planned development", you really need to find out not only the monthly cost, but ask pointed questions about any known upcoming assessments. You should probably contact the HOA directly because owners will feign ignorance on that $5-10K hit about to land. Also, find out if the property is in a "Metro Taxing District". Holy crap, what a scam. There is a series of articles being released by the Denver Post right now about those. Turn and run.

    Thankfully the western slope does not have many HOAs or planned developments outside of resort towns. There are other things though. For example, if you buy shares in an irrigation ditch to water your property, you are now obligated to pay for maintenance and repair, very similar to an HOA. These costs can be significant if the ditch is being buried or lined with concrete, which a lot of them are these days to save precious water. There are even Fence Associations in some areas that obligate you to keep a livestock fence in repair.

    On the subject of water, you need to look *very* closely at what your water supply will be, both for drinking, and for irrigation if you want to grow something. A lot of the rural areas have small water association suppliers for drinking water. Same deal, once you are in a water association, you have to assume at some point there will be an assessment for repair/replacement. Also, you absolutely cannot water outside of your house with some associations, they expect you to buy irrigation water for that.

    Don't think that because you are in a town you are immune to water issues: https://www.kunc.org/post/one-small-...-did-it-happen

    If you have a well, you are most likely to be limited to indoor use, unless you have more than 35 acres, or the well permit is very old (pre-1970 or so). If you are buying a 5 acre ranchette and you expect to have a garden, you will most likely be required to either find local irrigation water, or have a cistern and haul water in to irrigate.

  29. #29
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    Sometimes I read these threads and I'm reminded of preppers. You know those - end of the world type people. Basically spend their entire life planning, plotting and analyzing for some collection of 'what if' scenarios - no matter how unlikely - and, ultimately, exchange the life they have NOW for the 'possibility of something, maybe happening' in the future.

    Don't be careless or frivolous, but working to improve the life you live now and reasonably can rely on - seems like a coherent strategy, especially as you get up in years.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  30. #30
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    There is nothing wrong with planning in advance when it comes to massive life changes. Most people do not do enough. It is much worse to make a change and be blindsided by reality than to "plan too much". Case in point: I had a relative who decided to escape Illinois and all of its headaches by moving to Tennessee. They couldn't adapt to the people, the climate, or the politics. WTF? Why would anyone pick up their lives and move somewhere without looking into even basic factors like that? But it happens.

    In general, people need to start planning retirement moves earlier, make actual on the ground visits in all seasons, truly understand the people, the climate, the health care situation, the taxes, and the economics, before making a huge leap. Once they choose a general area, they need to really dig in and find out the specific facts of the actual location they plan on buying. How many times have you heard of people buying next to an airport and then complaining about noise? How about the people who bought in Candelas without knowing what Rocky Flats used to be? How about those people in Leyden Rock not knowing that the swath of open space 100' from their house is actually the right-of-way for a toll road? Look at the articles in the Denver Post this week about the people who bought into northern Colorado subdivisions without knowing they were in a metro taxing district and their property taxes would be $5000/year?

    I'm guessing you are nowhere near retirement age, Carl. Once you get closer and realize the magnitude of the decision to relocate in retirement, you will plan the hell out of it as well, if you are smart.

  31. #31
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    So - in the ten years (actually closer to 20), I've heard people complain about living in Denver-area and how they are going to move out... well, over that same period, I actually did move to a much better community for me; it's been great. The same people are still complaining and processing which doesn't seem productive. I know many other people who have taken similar action - all with positive results.

    If it matters, I'm actively working on retiring as I close in by 50 - again, executing for control not paralysis. In two years, I don't plan to need to work - I probably can make that happen now but I've plotted a more conservative course. All I know is, I don't have the issues/problems I read here and no one in my local circle has complaints about the daily life they are leading so something's working.

    But, you live your life as you see fit; I admire your optimism that there's a place that will tic all your boxes. Hope springs eternal - and it seems to energize you. Keep at it. Who knows? In 30 years, I may be upset that there's some unanticipated airplane noise and you'll have the last laugh; and I'll be left with nothing but the memories of quality living during that time.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    ^^ Aren't those places $$$? As in, even more so than here?
    Yes. Stupid expensive, but it is home. ‘Retirement’ for me means consulting & typically working from home. Kids being out of the house makes it a lot easier. I’d love to be more remote, but I need to be close’ish to a major airport.

    Downsizing and the $ exchange helps too.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    There is nothing wrong with planning in advance when it comes to massive life changes. Most people do not do enough. It is much worse to make a change and be blindsided by reality than to "plan too much". Case in point: I had a relative who decided to escape Illinois and all of its headaches by moving to Tennessee. They couldn't adapt to the people, the climate, or the politics. WTF? Why would anyone pick up their lives and move somewhere without looking into even basic factors like that? But it happens.

    In general, people need to start planning retirement moves earlier, make actual on the ground visits in all seasons, truly understand the people, the climate, the health care situation, the taxes, and the economics, before making a huge leap. Once they choose a general area, they need to really dig in and find out the specific facts of the actual location they plan on buying. How many times have you heard of people buying next to an airport and then complaining about noise? How about the people who bought in Candelas without knowing what Rocky Flats used to be? How about those people in Leyden Rock not knowing that the swath of open space 100' from their house is actually the right-of-way for a toll road? Look at the articles in the Denver Post this week about the people who bought into northern Colorado subdivisions without knowing they were in a metro taxing district and their property taxes would be $5000/year?

    I'm guessing you are nowhere near retirement age, Carl. Once you get closer and realize the magnitude of the decision to relocate in retirement, you will plan the hell out of it as well, if you are smart.
    So True! My parents did that as well, twice!! They bought a house in Tennesse before retiring and loved going to visit, but actually living there didn't work well for them. They sold it, decided on rural South Carolina. This time they rented for a year before buying.. unfortunately 5 years later and they don't really like it. They are too far from town and they don't really like the "politics" of where they live and have made no friends.

    Its certainly tricky for us Colorado folks that are in our working years. Most of need to be around a major area for that reason. I just try to appreciate what we have, sure it has gotten busier, but we still live in a great place.
    BBZ

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  34. #34
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    I personally think retirement is a *PERFECT* time to rent. Move somewhere nice every so often. Live internationally for awhile... don't be tied down. You know you can rent a small flat in the French Alps for about $850/mo?

    Home ownership SUCKS. YMMV.


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    On the subject of water, you need to look *very* closely at what your water supply will be, both for drinking, and for irrigation if you want to grow something. A lot of the rural areas have small water association suppliers for drinking water. Same deal, once you are in a water association, you have to assume at some point there will be an assessment for repair/replacement. Also, you absolutely cannot water outside of your house with some associations, they expect you to buy irrigation water for that.

    Don't think that because you are in a town you are immune to water issues: https://www.kunc.org/post/one-small-...-did-it-happen

    If you have a well, you are most likely to be limited to indoor use, unless you have more than 35 acres, or the well permit is very old (pre-1970 or so). If you are buying a 5 acre ranchette and you expect to have a garden, you will most likely be required to either find local irrigation water, or have a cistern and haul water in to irrigate.
    Water is truly an issue in some places, including my neighborhood. Many people around here have to haul water, not just for outdoor use, but because their wells have run dry. Mine did when the water table dropped 2 droughts ago. Hauling water sucked! Luckily, I could spend a pile of money and drop a newer pump in at a deeper level (well was pre-drilled to about 900ft).

    As far as permitting, what honkinunit says is correct, but around here there are no water police checking up on how you use your well. I'm less concerned about my neighbors with horses than I am about the 400 new houses being put in 400 feet below us...
    baker

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Baker mentions HOA costs. If you are moving into a condo or "planned development", you really need to find out not only the monthly cost, but ask pointed questions about any known upcoming assessments. You should probably contact the HOA directly because owners will feign ignorance on that $5-10K hit about to land.
    This is also an important point. One of the condos we looked at near Breck appeared to be a steal. Well, until we found out about the outstanding share of $25k for a special assessment! Holy smokes... Those are the kind of things to be prepared for when looking. If something is too cheap to believe, there is probably a reason.
    baker

  37. #37
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    One thing to consider is what the place will be like when you're getting old and decrepit. Great mtb trails, nearby skiing, wide open spaces are all great, but at some point you or your SO will need things other than that. Good convenient medical care is a biggie.
    Do the math.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    I personally think retirement is a *PERFECT* time to rent. Move somewhere nice every so often. Live internationally for awhile... don't be tied down. You know you can rent a small flat in the French Alps for about $850/mo?

    Home ownership SUCKS. YMMV.

    I'm attracted to this line of thinking. But it's tough - there's certainty in the stability and comfort in having a long-term homebase - plus easier to forecast your budget. On the "live your life and make the best of your most important, limited resource - time" side, if you are duly motivated - man, this can truly yield a life worth living.

    Following-up on the earlier topic, I don't challenge making rational, pragmatic choices about your wants, financial & physical state and realistic opportunities. But, when for years, you just cross off every place with a litany of, umm, interesting reasons - well, I think you might be more about looking than doing. No bride will ever be good enough. I place a premium on being in an environment you can thrive in; if you are unhappy in your current one, well, the best time to have moved was 10 years ago - the 2nd best time is right now. Life may surprise you, there are no guarantees.

    A lot of these threads get into accounting before actually talking about what your intentions/expectations are. You cannot do the financial calculus before qualifying your goals. There's a huge difference between trying to go find a quiet place to be uninterrupted & not inconvenienced by the outside world and begin dying...and wanting to squeeze every bit of juice from life experiences before you punch your ticket. I make no judgment on what you choose as it's personal and dictated by your circumstances; I'm trying to follow an arc but as they say - the best laid plans of mice and men.

    A bit of msn click-baity, superficial thing pop'd up today: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/reti...BnbfcN#image=1

    No matter the junky source, there were two thoughts worth processing on: valuing experiences over things. And the underlining theme of setting yourself up for success.

    Edit: One last thing, in a world where there are many, many things that you cannot control which might bring you unhappiness, tolerating one you can control is sort of silly.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    I'm attracted to this line of thinking. But it's tough - there's certainty in the stability and comfort in having a long-term homebase - plus easier to forecast your budget. On the "live your life and make the best of your most important, limited resource - time" side, if you are duly motivated - man, this can truly yield a life worth living.
    Yup. It definitely isn't for everyone, for sure.

    But when I discover that you can rent a fully furnished small flat in the French Alps, or in Tuscany, or in the Canadian Rockies, for less than $1000/mo... I figure how can I afford NOT to do it?

    But seriously - home ownership is a PITA. I don't like it. The older I get, the less I like it.

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    The issue we have with renting is the lack of a workshop. I've looked around, and rental houses with workshops definitely begin to push the costs to the point that you might as well buy. If you like welding, woodworking, auto restoration, etc. renting is tough.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post

    valuing experiences over things
    Yes.. Along with that is not forgetting to enjoy it now, who knows what kind of health condition or financial condition could effect your retirement years.. (and that doesn't mean to be a pessimistic view, but.. it could be us, or family, kids, grandkids, etc)
    BBZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    The issue we have with renting is the lack of a workshop. I've looked around, and rental houses with workshops definitely begin to push the costs to the point that you might as well buy. If you like welding, woodworking, auto restoration, etc. renting is tough.
    FTS. I'm into eating, drinking and riding my mountain bike.

    I wonder if it's possible to *rent* workshop space? Hmmm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    FTS. I'm into eating, drinking and riding my mountain bike.

    I wonder if it's possible to *rent* workshop space? Hmmm...
    It is locally dependent. Renting workshop space anywhere along the Front Range is nearly impossible, because nearly every available square foot is growing weed. If you can find space, it is ridiculously expensive. I suspect the same is true anywhere in CO where they allow grow houses.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMWTP View Post
    I have a few years to go before the kids are out of the house, but the planning is starting.

    Staying in CO, most likely, maybe not. What part of the state has the best riding, best weather, and reasonable distance to skiing? Carbondale? Durango? Utah?

    All I know is I gotta get out of Denver.
    Fort Collins is pretty amazing place to be. Great riding, Good (OK decent) food, healthcare, shopping, Costco, Trader Joe's, etc.. Wyoming just an hour north. Skiing is pretty far away, but I'm trying to figure out how to have a house here and a ski condo in Steamboat.

    From the interwebz..
    - A&E television rated Fort Collins one of the “10 best Cities to Have It All”
    - Money Magazine ranked it, “One of the top ten best places to retire”
    - MSN.com rated Fort Collins as one of the “Top Five Places to Retire”
    - AARP said "Fort Collins/Lovelend is the Number One Best Place to Reinvent Your Life"

    The only downside of Fort Collins (for me at least) is if you have to go to Denver a lot. The drive down I-25 really is no fun, but it wasn't 15 years ago either. Otherwise we live in a pretty awesome 5 mile bubble, everything is super close.

    Carbondale, Durango, Salida, etc. are all super nice but a bit remote for my wife. And bring your big boy wallet or try to time it during another recession.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    Fort Collins is pretty amazing place to be. Great riding, Good (OK decent) food, healthcare, shopping, Costco, Trader Joe's, etc.. Wyoming just an hour north. Skiing is pretty far away, but I'm trying to figure out how to have a house here and a ski condo in Steamboat.

    From the interwebz..
    - A&E television rated Fort Collins one of the “10 best Cities to Have It All”
    - Money Magazine ranked it, “One of the top ten best places to retire”
    - MSN.com rated Fort Collins as one of the “Top Five Places to Retire”
    - AARP said "Fort Collins/Lovelend is the Number One Best Place to Reinvent Your Life"

    The only downside of Fort Collins (for me at least) is if you have to go to Denver a lot. The drive down I-25 really is no fun, but it wasn't 15 years ago either. Otherwise we live in a pretty awesome 5 mile bubble, everything is super close.

    Carbondale, Durango, Salida, etc. are all super nice but a bit remote for my wife. And bring your big boy wallet or try to time it during another recession.
    I like Ft Collins, but you are right, I25 is no fun, never has been and is only getting worse.

    Its somewhat odd that my wife and I think about timing the next recession.. Would be nice to grab some property, but don't really wish bad things financially for others..
    BBZ

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    It is all relative, someone going from Denver to Ft. Collins probably think they are going to a quiet area, but Ft. Fun has jumped the shark for us. It is just too big and busy now, and forget about the I-25 motor speedway. By the time they make that three lanes each way from Mead to Ft Collins, it will need four or five lanes each way.

    We looked around the areas west of Ft Collins, Loveland and Berthoud as well. West of Ft. Collins has a lot of fire danger, which we are trying to avoid. There are a lot of nice places on acreage west of Loveland and around Carter Lake, but those properties are already getting to be mountain town expensive, and it looks like they are going to start building a bunch of dense subdivisions out there as well. I've never known anywhere along the Front Range to show any restraint in development until things are far gone, so I expect all of the quiet country roads in SW Larimer I've ridden my road bike on for decades will soon be as bad as Boulder and Weld counties. Colorado is f*&^^ed when it comes to land use regs. I hate to say it, but this is one area that states east of the Mississippi have it right, and Colorado is *way* wrong. Flagpole annexations are banned in most states east of the Mississippi, even "developer friendly" states like Florida. This promotes infill, and prevents stupid stuff like the dense subdivisions they are building around Carter Lake, or places like Candelas that plunk 5000 people in the middle of nowhere with no improvement to infrastructure and no transit at all, not even buses.

    There is no where left from Ft. Collins to Colorado Springs that isn't either already too crowded for us to deal with in retirement, or will become that way in a few years. You cannot take a static view of anywhere along the Front Range, you have to consider how fast the entire Front Range is growing. As we all know, CO is not able match infrastructure with growth, so the only solution to me is to go where the population is so small that even if it doubles, it won't be a huge issue. Most people can't deal with truly small towns, so fortunately, there are a few good places left, at least for the time being. I ain't telling where though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    <snip> The drive down I-25 really is no fun, but it wasn't 15 years ago either.
    It was *kinda* fun 25-ish years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    <snip> As we all know, CO is not able match infrastructure with growth
    Gee. I wonder why that is...


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    Front range is out of the question. Unless the wife says we stay. I25 sucks balls.

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    It is all relative, someone going from Denver to Ft. Collins probably think they are going to a quiet area, but Ft. Fun has jumped the shark for us. It is just too big and busy now, and forget about the I-25 motor speedway. By the time they make that three lanes each way from Mead to Ft Collins, it will need four or five lanes each way.

    We looked around the areas west of Ft Collins, Loveland and Berthoud as well. West of Ft. Collins has a lot of fire danger, which we are trying to avoid. There are a lot of nice places on acreage west of Loveland and around Carter Lake, but those properties are already getting to be mountain town expensive, and it looks like they are going to start building a bunch of dense subdivisions out there as well. I've never known anywhere along the Front Range to show any restraint in development until things are far gone, so I expect all of the quiet country roads in SW Larimer I've ridden my road bike on for decades will soon be as bad as Boulder and Weld counties. Colorado is f*&^^ed when it comes to land use regs. I hate to say it, but this is one area that states east of the Mississippi have it right, and Colorado is *way* wrong. Flagpole annexations are banned in most states east of the Mississippi, even "developer friendly" states like Florida. This promotes infill, and prevents stupid stuff like the dense subdivisions they are building around Carter Lake, or places like Candelas that plunk 5000 people in the middle of nowhere with no improvement to infrastructure and no transit at all, not even buses.

    There is no where left from Ft. Collins to Colorado Springs that isn't either already too crowded for us to deal with in retirement, or will become that way in a few years. You cannot take a static view of anywhere along the Front Range, you have to consider how fast the entire Front Range is growing. As we all know, CO is not able match infrastructure with growth, so the only solution to me is to go where the population is so small that even if it doubles, it won't be a huge issue. Most people can't deal with truly small towns, so fortunately, there are a few good places left, at least for the time being. I ain't telling where though.

    Fire danger is everywhere in the west though. Heck, look at Colorado Springs. All it takes is a lightning strike and your house is potentially toast. My parents neighbors lost a house in Atlanta, 95% humidity on an 85 degree lush July day. Sometimes you just have to live life and not worry about the "what if's" I guess...but that's just me.

    We put about 3,000 miles on our cars/yr (self employed) and live in the SW part of Fort Collins 5 minute pedal to dirt from the garage and also pretty fortunate we don't have to deal with I-25 too much. I can't tell you the last time I've put my bike on the vehicle to go ride locally, it can all be done from the house.

    Not everyone wants to be in a small town or riding destination town like Crested Butte, Steamboat, Fruita, Durango, Salida, BV, etc.. It was a dream of mine initially to be in Steamboat, but I think my wife would go stir crazy and probably divorce me, ha! I do think the "base camp" location is nice and you can always AirBnB based on weather, etc..

    My Dad sent me this link a while back, pretty interesting.

    https://www.nationalmortgagenews.com...-and-stability

    Northern Colorado is an unstoppable machine for real estate appreciation, second only behind Washington DC since 1991 according to fhfa.gov. Many other parts of CO west of the Front Range can't boast the same and there is a much larger risk you can lose significant money in a downturn if you decide rural living might not be for you. That would be my bigger fear over "if forest fires might happen" for me personally...but that's just me!

    I grew up 25 miles outside Manhattan so Fort Collins is like country living for me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    It was *kinda* fun 25-ish years ago.
    I remember when I moved out here in 1999 and there was nothing driving up to Fort Collins...yeah it was easier then but 470 didn't exist so getting to DIA via 120th or 104th was a chore.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    I remember when I moved out here in 1999 and there was nothing driving up to Fort Collins...yeah it was easier then but 470 didn't exist so getting to DIA via 120th or 104th was a chore.
    Yeah - I used to work at HP on Harmony. Commuted from Lakewood (Green Mountain). Supervisor and I would carpool, meet at 120th, and boogie on up. I could do door-to-door in less than 60 minutes, even with the 120th stop.

    Still an AWFUL commute, though. Also lucky I never got any speeding citations on that one...

  53. #53
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    I remember when I moved out here in '75. There was nothing up to Fort Collins, and driving to Stapleton was a snap.
    Do the math.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    Fire danger is everywhere in the west though. Heck, look at Colorado Springs. All it takes is a lightning strike and your house is potentially toast. My parents neighbors lost a house in Atlanta, 95% humidity on an 85 degree lush July day. Sometimes you just have to live life and not worry about the "what if's" I guess...but that's just me.

    We put about 3,000 miles on our cars/yr (self employed) and live in the SW part of Fort Collins 5 minute pedal to dirt from the garage and also pretty fortunate we don't have to deal with I-25 too much. I can't tell you the last time I've put my bike on the vehicle to go ride locally, it can all be done from the house.

    Not everyone wants to be in a small town or riding destination town like Crested Butte, Steamboat, Fruita, Durango, Salida, BV, etc.. It was a dream of mine initially to be in Steamboat, but I think my wife would go stir crazy and probably divorce me, ha! I do think the "base camp" location is nice and you can always AirBnB based on weather, etc..

    My Dad sent me this link a while back, pretty interesting.

    https://www.nationalmortgagenews.com...-and-stability

    Northern Colorado is an unstoppable machine for real estate appreciation, second only behind Washington DC since 1991 according to fhfa.gov. Many other parts of CO west of the Front Range can't boast the same and there is a much larger risk you can lose significant money in a downturn if you decide rural living might not be for you. That would be my bigger fear over "if forest fires might happen" for me personally...but that's just me!

    I grew up 25 miles outside Manhattan so Fort Collins is like country living for me!
    Northern Colorado is an unstoppable machine for population growth, that is the problem. Costs, regulations, and yes, fire danger are going to conspire to limit building, so naturally housing prices in Northern CO are going to continue to rise. It will also create the same problems you now see around Boulder: escalating costs and wages driving out small businesses, 10 people living in a two bedroom dwelling, pressure on various social services, huge numbers of commuters going in and out of towns every day, and eventually, the area becomes a crappy place to live for all but the top 5%, as Boulder has become. I don't know the general solutions to these issues, my solution is to avoid them by moving. Two more years. The day can't get here fast enough.

    Anyone taking a cavalier attitude toward fire danger in the West is in for a rude awakening. You don't have to be directly affected by a fire to be impacted by what has been happening in California and across the West. Look at your homeowner's insurance. Even places you would not expect, like the city of Boulder, have high fire danger. It is only a matter of time before there are places along the Front Range where there are no insurance companies willing to write a homeowner's policy, at any cost. The problem is so bad in California that just last week they prohibited companies from dropping policies due to fire danger until they can figure out what to do. In California, there are already hundreds of thousands of houses that are not commercially insurable and must be covered by a California state program. There is no such program in Colorado. I'll just flat out say it, if you buy a house today in a fire Red Zone, you *are* going to regret it eventually. Even if you are not affected by fire directly, your insurance is going to be a huge issue. BTW, you do not have to live in a forest to have high fire danger, there have been many homes burnt in the past decade in CO in grass fires, and for example, the area just west of Superior where there are zero trees is considered to be a high fire risk area. I remember a very hot and fast moving grass fire about 20 years ago that started on the north slope of North Table Mountain in Golden and burned down the slope to the Northeast, driven by a fierce wind. There are now hundreds of houses right in that path of that fire. If the same fire started today there would be many homes lost.

    https://www.coloradowildfirerisk.com/

    https://ktla.com/2019/12/05/californ...ravaged-areas/

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    I know why we were called Gen X.
    We're Generation Xperiment.

    And when you've been a guinea pig your whole life, a good escape plan should include nearby quality healthcare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Northern Colorado is an unstoppable machine for population growth, that is the problem. Costs, regulations, and yes, fire danger are going to conspire to limit building, so naturally housing prices in Northern CO are going to continue to rise. It will also create the same problems you now see around Boulder: escalating costs and wages driving out small businesses, 10 people living in a two bedroom dwelling, pressure on various social services, huge numbers of commuters going in and out of towns every day, and eventually, the area becomes a crappy place to live for all but the top 5%, as Boulder has become. I don't know the general solutions to these issues, my solution is to avoid them by moving. Two more years. The day can't get here fast enough.

    Anyone taking a cavalier attitude toward fire danger in the West is in for a rude awakening. You don't have to be directly affected by a fire to be impacted by what has been happening in California and across the West. Look at your homeowner's insurance. Even places you would not expect, like the city of Boulder, have high fire danger. It is only a matter of time before there are places along the Front Range where there are no insurance companies willing to write a homeowner's policy, at any cost. The problem is so bad in California that just last week they prohibited companies from dropping policies due to fire danger until they can figure out what to do. In California, there are already hundreds of thousands of houses that are not commercially insurable and must be covered by a California state program. There is no such program in Colorado. I'll just flat out say it, if you buy a house today in a fire Red Zone, you *are* going to regret it eventually. Even if you are not affected by fire directly, your insurance is going to be a huge issue. BTW, you do not have to live in a forest to have high fire danger, there have been many homes burnt in the past decade in CO in grass fires, and for example, the area just west of Superior where there are zero trees is considered to be a high fire risk area. I remember a very hot and fast moving grass fire about 20 years ago that started on the north slope of North Table Mountain in Golden and burned down the slope to the Northeast, driven by a fierce wind. There are now hundreds of houses right in that path of that fire. If the same fire started today there would be many homes lost.

    https://www.coloradowildfirerisk.com/

    https://ktla.com/2019/12/05/californ...ravaged-areas/
    OK, now I am really curious were your utopian forest fire free retirement zone is in rural Colorado void of human beings.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    OK, now I am really curious were your utopian forest fire free retirement zone is in rural Colorado void of human beings.
    It doesn't exist.

  58. #58
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    for my wife and I, right now the plan is to get a small house or cabin on the shore of Lake Huron in Michigan near the Oscoda area. She has family who already are up in that area that we visit in the summer, and it is just awesome.

    Also possibly looking on the west side of the state up near Sleeping Bear Dunes area. Possibly Frankfort area.

    We still have about 4-5 years I think, but might buy now if we find a place and use it for a summer vacay place until the last kid is out of college

    but yeah...the Great Lakes area has always been the magical place for us.

    The dream would be to also do a B&B in Ireland, but I don't think that will really happen
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    for my wife and I, right now the plan is to get a small house or cabin on the shore of Lake Huron in Michigan near the Oscoda area. She has family who already are up in that area that we visit in the summer, and it is just awesome.

    Also possibly looking on the west side of the state up near Sleeping Bear Dunes area. Possibly Frankfort area.

    We still have about 4-5 years I think, but might buy now if we find a place and use it for a summer vacay place until the last kid is out of college

    but yeah...the Great Lakes area has always been the magical place for us.

    The dream would be to also do a B&B in Ireland, but I don't think that will really happen
    I agree.

    More people should move to Michigan from Colorado!

    honkinunit - lookin' at YOU, man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    OK, now I am really curious were your utopian forest fire free retirement zone is in rural Colorado void of human beings.
    Get out a map. There are counties on the Western Slope that are the size of Jeffco or larger but which have 30,000 people or fewer. Several in fact. Many of these counties have valleys full of irrigated agriculture that doesn't burn very well.

    Take your pick.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    I agree.

    More people should move to Michigan from Colorado!

    honkinunit - lookin' at YOU, man.
    NOO!!! let everyone go out west..that way Michigan does not become saturated with people! The magic is that there are not tons of people in those areas!!
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    61 more work days for me, not counting today!!!
    I haven't decided yet when I will pull the trigger, but knowing that I can sure makes things easier.
    Portugal, Southern France, Argentina...
    Or stay in Golden. Shhhhhhhhhhh - the Front Range trails are pretty much empty 8:30-4:30 Monday-Friday.
    Is this where I write something witty?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    NOO!!! let everyone go out west..that way Michigan does not become saturated with people! The magic is that there are not tons of people in those areas!!
    Don't worry. People aren't going to flock from the West to Michigan.

    Michigan is an OK place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there (again)...

    As always, YMMV.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by djlee View Post
    <snip>
    Or stay in Golden. Shhhhhhhhhhh - the Front Range trails are pretty much empty 8:30-4:30 Monday-Friday.
    Heh.

    Don't tell honkinunit.


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    Laramie, WY. The riding is good from any door in town with the Schoolyard and incipient Pilot Hill trail systems. It's a 15 minute drive up I-80 to the Happy Jack trail system in the Medicine Bow National Forest. Trails are getting better with each passing year. In the winter the nordic skiing is some of the best and most easily accessible from as far south as Denver (and no trail fees). The town is dominated by a full-service University: D1 sports, excellent performing arts series, all the bells and whistles and intellectual stimulation that come with a institution of high learning and the energy those youngsters bring. Housing is affordable, no state income tax, and healthcare in town is good with top notch care available with just a day-trip to Denver. Late spring is the worst season here, but a day riding the trails in Fort Collins (one hour away) makes it bearable. And after living in small town Laramie for a few years even a day in the traffic of Fort Collins seems like hell, so you're happy to head back north at the end of the day.

    We moved here almost 30 years ago with the idea that this was a place that would allow us to live our best lives -- a solid career in our chosen field, a great place to raise kids (good schools), and an outdoor lifestyle that could be realized each day, just not saved for a weekend or vacation. I love it when a plan comes together...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    for my wife and I, right now the plan is to get a small house or cabin on the shore of Lake Huron in Michigan near the Oscoda area. She has family who already are up in that area that we visit in the summer, and it is just awesome.

    Also possibly looking on the west side of the state up near Sleeping Bear Dunes area. Possibly Frankfort area.

    We still have about 4-5 years I think, but might buy now if we find a place and use it for a summer vacay place until the last kid is out of college

    but yeah...the Great Lakes area has always been the magical place for us.

    The dream would be to also do a B&B in Ireland, but I don't think that will really happen
    My problem with that plan is that I grew up in MI. Have you ever spent a winter there? No thanks.

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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Heh.

    Don't tell honkinunit.

    Don't worry, there is *zero* chance I will be staying within 3 hours of the Front Range when I retire, so you can have the trails all to yourselves and 3,000,000+ of your closest friends.

    Back to the subject at hand, I know a guy who retired to the Custer, SD area and another who is about to follow. If you want a house on acreage, there are a lot of options up there, less expensive than just about any area of CO. SD is rated one of the financially best states in which to retire. Some good riding up there, but the winters can be tough, and of course the whole area around the Black Hills is very tourist-heavy.

    Another Front Ranger friend is going to Sheridan, WY. I've never been there, but he says it is pretty awesome, and it looks pretty good on paper. Surprisingly, not much colder than Northern CO. Growing really fast though, with the growth being driven by people bailing out on CO, and CA, and he said he had some "interesting" conversations with some of the locals when they found out he was from the Front Range. He will be a "Greenie" forever (that is what Wyoming natives call Coloradans, as in "You know it is summer in Wyoming when the license plates turn green".) Getting to be pricey as well. I'm not sure about the riding. Not too many touristas. Very scenic.

    Lots of options outside of CO as well as in, as long as you are not tied to being close to the Front Range. You have to prioritize what is important to you specifically, and then hunt down a place that can check some percentage of boxes. You'll probably never find the perfect place, but you don't want to be blinded by one or two aspects of a place and then find after you relocate that everything else sucks.

    Here is one thing I have found: many, many small town newspapers are dead or dying, and newspapers are no longer very useful for figuring out what is going on in smaller communities. You have to check out the local Facebook pages, and almost every small town will have a Facebook presence frequented by the locals. As much as I hate FB, I've learned a lot about various places I have investigated by going through a year or so of posts. You read some funny shit, as well.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptor View Post
    Laramie, WY. The riding is good from any door in town with the Schoolyard and incipient Pilot Hill trail systems. It's a 15 minute drive up I-80 to the Happy Jack trail system in the Medicine Bow National Forest. Trails are getting better with each passing year. In the winter the nordic skiing is some of the best and most easily accessible from as far south as Denver (and no trail fees). The town is dominated by a full-service University: D1 sports, excellent performing arts series, all the bells and whistles and intellectual stimulation that come with a institution of high learning and the energy those youngsters bring. Housing is affordable, no state income tax, and healthcare in town is good with top notch care available with just a day-trip to Denver. Late spring is the worst season here, but a day riding the trails in Fort Collins (one hour away) makes it bearable. And after living in small town Laramie for a few years even a day in the traffic of Fort Collins seems like hell, so you're happy to head back north at the end of the day.

    We moved here almost 30 years ago with the idea that this was a place that would allow us to live our best lives -- a solid career in our chosen field, a great place to raise kids (good schools), and an outdoor lifestyle that could be realized each day, just not saved for a weekend or vacation. I love it when a plan comes together...
    Tell us about wind.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    The OP asked for skiing and the skiing isn't great in AZ. Yes, there is skiing but it's nothing to write home about.
    Unlike those world class trails on Bachelor
    Carpe Diem!!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Unlike those world class trails on Bachelor
    Totally agree. You guys do NOT want to move to Bend.

  71. #71
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    Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Tell us about wind.
    Just a tool for separating the wheat from the chaff...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMWTP View Post
    My problem with that plan is that I grew up in MI. Have you ever spent a winter there? No thanks.

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    that is what we want. We are winter people. I am tired of winter being 42 degrees and muddy...and honestly tired of hot summers as well. Though I know that MI gets the same summer weather as Ohio for the most part...
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  74. #74
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    So many good thoughts here....I skipped to the bottom after reading the first half or so.

    I'll share my recent experience:

    After 20+ years on the Front Range, most of it in the Golden area, my wife and I tired of the endless growth and decided in 2017 to sell out and move - not retire - to Salida. Actually we landed in Poncha because we were able to pay cash for a townhome. Long story short, I/we went from "too big" to "too small." Lots of good things about living in Salida, but good paying jobs aren't one of them. I found it lacked the wattage I craved. The hard lesson learned? Just because you like vacationing somewhere does NOT mean you will like living there. I couldn't wait to get out of there, much more so than the feeling I had about the Front Range. It could work if you truly like small town living. It would definitely be easier if you retired there, didn't have to earn a living, and had the financial means to travel at will. Seems to me the people that were happiest in Salida were able to travel extensively and escape the small town/confining feeling.

    So in fall 2018 we put our Poncha house on the market. Just before Christmas 2018 We moved to Bellingham WA where my wife's dad and brother live. As for renting vs owning, we learned our lesson from our previous experimental move and decided to rent in Bellingham. I thought I would hate "throwing away my money on rent," but almost a year later I'm in no hurry to buy a home. I love the feeling of freedom that comes with renting. No house to anchor us if we decide we want to move.

    As for Bellingham, I love the size of it (85,000). Reminds me of Fort Collins when I moved there in 1994. Perfect size for me. As for riding, Galbraith Mountain is pretty cool, with around 65 miles of trails. It's just...different than Colorado terrain and climate obviously, which after 25 years having lived there has become my "norm" by which all other places will be compared. Truth be told, I'm kind of homesick for Colorado. Yet, I don't know where I would want to live there if we return someday. So much to weigh...

    Bottom line, there is no perfect place. Carl Mega probably has it right: enjoy wherever you are now, right now, for whatever good things it has to offer. Because I can tell you, I look back now at my time in Golden and Salida and I miss the good times I had in those places. It's just human nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    So many good thoughts here....I skipped to the bottom after reading the first half or so.
    Good post. It actually lays out the dilemma of aging and retirement considerations well. When I first moved to Colorado, living in the mountains was my plan, then I figured out the jobs were few and far between and the pay was minimal related to high cost of living.

    Hopefully I last long enough in my current job to get my house paid off and then my plan is to turn it into an Air B&B, or two, and then purchase some property outside of town and build a small cabin or modular. Location, location, location.... it's just a perfect location and I could never sell my current house. 2 blocks to the ER.

    When I need to go the the Dr or hospital I'll go stay in the city house closer to the dr office and then when I can get away go to the country house. Riding will obviously be less of a consideration as I age. Gravel riding has given me new options though.

    My plan B is to move to California and live in the Facebook parking garage so I can steal free wifi. If I'm hungary I'll go fishing and poach veggies from the local farmers.

    Plan C is to have several Air B&B's in various locations and live a nomadic lifestyle traveling between them. Calgary is great as is Montana and most of Wyoming. Whitefish, Kalispell are places I would like to be also, but probably could never afford. The Canadian Rockies are something to behold and offer some new options too...

  76. #76
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    [QUOTE=golden boy;14471881]So many good thoughts here....I skipped to the bottom after reading the first half or so.
    Well said..

    Small town living is challenging (lived in Gunnison for 10 years).. I know its not what I want when I retire. I do feel a town like Bellinghams size might be about perfect.. but I couldn't live through the winters up there, no way! Love the riding there though.. so fun.
    BBZ

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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Plan C is to have several Air B&B's in various locations and live a nomadic lifestyle traveling between them.
    I honestly never thought about doing this but now you've planted an idea-seed. Need to process on that - 3X the trouble or 3X the adventure? Hmmmm.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    I honestly never thought about doing this but now you've planted an idea-seed. Need to process on that - 3X the trouble or 3X the adventure? Hmmmm.
    Why not both? We have a few vrbo properties and it gets pretty tiring to be honest even if it's only maybe less than 5% that annoys the shit out of me. Places in Boat and Breck - HOW CLOSE ARE YOU TO SKIING? HOW FAR TO ESTES PARK? Did you look at the ****ing map? How the hell did you rip the toilet paper holder out of the wall/knock the pictures off/break the screen door/take the door handle off... ...on and on. That said, if you get a good location for a good price you can print money if you manage it yourself. Thankfully my work allows for me to be remote so I can jet down to CB when the garbage disposal goes out and the handyman wants $9M to fix it.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    Why not both? We have a few vrbo properties and it gets pretty tiring to be honest even if it's only maybe less than 5% that annoys the shit out of me. Places in Boat and Breck - HOW CLOSE ARE YOU TO SKIING? HOW FAR TO ESTES PARK? Did you look at the ****ing map? How the hell did you rip the toilet paper holder out of the wall/knock the pictures off/break the screen door/take the door handle off... ...on and on. That said, if you get a good location for a good price you can print money if you manage it yourself. Thankfully my work allows for me to be remote so I can jet down to CB when the garbage disposal goes out and the handyman wants $9M to fix it.
    Home ownership sucks. Owning 3 would suck triple. YMMV.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    Why not both? We have a few vrbo properties and it gets pretty tiring to be honest even if it's only maybe less than 5% that annoys the shit out of me. Places in Boat and Breck - HOW CLOSE ARE YOU TO SKIING? HOW FAR TO ESTES PARK? Did you look at the ****ing map? How the hell did you rip the toilet paper holder out of the wall/knock the pictures off/break the screen door/take the door handle off... ...on and on. That said, if you get a good location for a good price you can print money if you manage it yourself. Thankfully my work allows for me to be remote so I can jet down to CB when the garbage disposal goes out and the handyman wants $9M to fix it.
    That's why it's a nomadic lifestyle. You become a traveling handyman doing repairs in-between guest stays.

  81. #81
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    Actually at retirement age, rather than the nomadic lifestyle, I'm kinda favoring the monastic lifestyle.
    Do the math.

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    i am "just" 41 but i really like this thread. i keep wandering, why everyone is planing to leave and retire somewhere else. riding during week days is not bad at all, trails are fairly empty, traffic is fine as well after 9am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavo View Post
    i am "just" 41 but i really like this thread. i keep wandering, why everyone is planing to leave and retire somewhere else. riding during week days is not bad at all, trails are fairly empty, traffic is fine as well after 9am.
    I am a few years from retirement and I am definitely leaving the Front Range. Why would you want to retire somewhere that you have to plan everything you do around other people? "traffic is fine as well after 9am". LMAO, take a look at any major highway between 4 PM and 7 PM on just about any weekday. And traffic sucks ALL DAY on weekends anymore, especially if you are trying to get to/from the mountains. Trails as well. You basically write off two days a week around here anymore, plus six hours of your weekdays. It isn't getting any better, and the state is so dysfunctional it will be California style traffic gridlock on the Front Range in a few years. Seems like transit might be a partial solution, except wait, RTD is a massive cluster that can't even run what they have, let alone build what they were supposed to have built under FasTracks. I fully expect the lid to blown off that sorry excuse for a transit district soon. They are so completely screwed that unless there is a massive tax increase, they will almost certainly be shutting down entire light rail lines and cancelling even more bus routes than they have already. The have ZERO bonding capability now, and their revenues don't cover operating costs. There is a reason the head of RTD and half his staff just bailed.

    The trails are already just about the most crowded in the entire US. I've ridden in CA and the trails are much less utilized there.

    Add to all that the price of housing, the increasing crime, the headaches with getting anyone competent to do any work for you (is there a roofer on the whole Front Range who isn't just grabbing temp labor off the street and sending them up on your roof to f*ck it up?)

    Seriously. Unless you have some burning family reason, or a medical issue that can only be treated on the Front Range, why WOULD you stay here?

  84. #84
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    ^Exactly!

    Every time I have to drive anywhere, regardless of time of day, I run into a clusterf*** of traffic.

    Pretty soon I'll be the grumpy old man sitting on my porch yelling at cars to slow down.

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    When I'm out in Utah, typically I'll get up at my camp spot, finally get onto the road and not see anybody for an hour. Then maybe one car. I won't see a stop light for 9 days and rarely a stop sign.

    When I'm on the way back here, it's I-70 and that gets crazier and crazier the closer I get to Denver. My chant is "keep your awareness up!"

    But a guy couldn't retire to where I camp. So it's all an illusion.
    Wait your turn, take your turn, cover your azz John Correia

  86. #86
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    Having lived and ridden in a number of other areas besides the FR, the FR is my least favorite, by far.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    So many good thoughts here....I skipped to the bottom after reading the first half or so.
    So much wisdom in this post...

    I’d love to retire on Vancouver Island. Great riding, lots of family & friends between Parksville & Courtney.

    I could ’retire’ (work part time) about 10 years sooner there vs the Sea to Sky, but Golden Boy you put it best about ‘Wattage’. I don’t want to live in it, but I find I need to be within +/- an hour from it.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    the headaches with getting anyone competent to do any work for you (is there a roofer on the whole Front Range who isn't just grabbing temp labor off the street and sending them up on your roof to f*ck it up?)
    Yes there are, at least me, I have proper insurance and licenses and only hire crews with the same.. have worked with the same crews for years...
    BBZ

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  89. #89
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    I've been thinking about this thread. One thing that keeps coming back to my mind, why are people living the majority of their lives in a place they dislike and/or constantly bitch about? I understand complaining is human nature, but jeez people, if you really dislike where you live so much that you wouldn't think of retiring there, move! Now! Why wait? Sure, I understand you might not have the same financial opportunity elsewhere, but why be miserable? It sucks for you and those around you. Totally reminds me of grumpy people who go to their jobs day in and day out, for an entire career, unhappily complaining to everyone around them. Never actually making a change for themselves. By the time you retire, you might not even be able to enjoy the paradise you long for...
    baker

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    ^^^ Jobs. Every place I lived other than where I grew up was due to opportunity and jobs.
    Do the math.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^^^ Jobs. Every place I lived other than where I grew up was due to opportunity and jobs.
    Yes. I have a friend who is a Longshoreman and while he would like to move back to Denver where his family is, there aren't enough oceans in Colorado.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    I've been thinking about this thread. One thing that keeps coming back to my mind, why are people living the majority of their lives in a place they dislike and/or constantly bitch about? I understand complaining is human nature, but jeez people, if you really dislike where you live so much that you wouldn't think of retiring there, move! Now! Why wait? Sure, I understand you might not have the same financial opportunity elsewhere, but why be miserable? It sucks for you and those around you. Totally reminds me of grumpy people who go to their jobs day in and day out, for an entire career, unhappily complaining to everyone around them. Never actually making a change for themselves. By the time you retire, you might not even be able to enjoy the paradise you long for...
    Shhhh... everybody just stay where you are. CA and the front range are the only 2 places worth livin & ridin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post

    Add to all that the price of housing, the increasing crime, the headaches with getting anyone competent to do any work for you (is there a roofer on the whole Front Range who isn't just grabbing temp labor off the street and sending them up on your roof to f*ck it up?)
    That is DEFINITELY not unique to the front range or CO. Something like 3 out of 10 trade jobs go unfulfilled right now and that will increase. Around here property crime follows the sub's that hire lot labor so be very careful with that.

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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    I've been thinking about this thread. One thing that keeps coming back to my mind, why are people living the majority of their lives in a place they dislike and/or constantly bitch about? I understand complaining is human nature, but jeez people, if you really dislike where you live so much that you wouldn't think of retiring there, move! Now! Why wait? Sure, I understand you might not have the same financial opportunity elsewhere, but why be miserable? It sucks for you and those around you. Totally reminds me of grumpy people who go to their jobs day in and day out, for an entire career, unhappily complaining to everyone around them. Never actually making a change for themselves. By the time you retire, you might not even be able to enjoy the paradise you long for...
    This has been suggested to honkinunit before... I suspect he just wants to hear himself complain.

  95. #95
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    I’m 55 and planning to retire by 59 1/2. Currently in the Phoenix area (NE Mesa, right next to the Hawes trail system), and I read this thread and have a hard time wanting to move. I’ve got great, varied riding all around the Phoenix area, and short drives to Sedona, Prescott, Flag or the White Mountains. We usually do a SoCal trip once or twice a year, and Durango and NM...All <7 hours to get to. So all kinds of riding easily accessible.

    Phoenix is affordable, and for where I live, and what I do, the traffic isn’t an issue. It’s mostly West Valley, anyway. Have Cardinals season tickets, and all the other pro sports (I’m a huge fan). Waste Management Phoenix Open is a blast, and all kinds of festivals and things to do.

    Anyway, I read this thread, and think about other places, but have it pretty damn good here. I like a home base, for my stuff and my 77” OLED flat screen, which is very important to me for sports and TV/movie watching. Great health care, etc. I guess I’m staying...


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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    I've been thinking about this thread. One thing that keeps coming back to my mind, why are people living the majority of their lives in a place they dislike and/or constantly bitch about? I understand complaining is human nature, but jeez people, if you really dislike where you live so much that you wouldn't think of retiring there, move! Now! Why wait? Sure, I understand you might not have the same financial opportunity elsewhere, but why be miserable? It sucks for you and those around you. Totally reminds me of grumpy people who go to their jobs day in and day out, for an entire career, unhappily complaining to everyone around them. Never actually making a change for themselves. By the time you retire, you might not even be able to enjoy the paradise you long for...
    The Front Range was fine until about 10 years ago. We've lived here over 30 years. If the Front Range was the same as 1995 or even 2005, we'd stay, but it isn't. Look at the bullshit crime that happens all over the metro area now. Dozens of bike shops are victims of smash and grabs. Hit and run pedestrian and bike deaths every week. A former co-worker was driving Uber and got jacked and killed. Today, a cop gets shot at 80th and Kipling by a guy who has apparently been robbing gas stations and dispensaries for over a week. That isn't going to end well, this guy knows he is going down. I hope he doesn't take it out on any more innocent people. This is the kind of crap you just didn't see 10-20-30 years ago outside of Denver proper, now it is everywhere in the metro area.

    If I worked a shitty job that was interchangeable with another shitty job somewhere else, I would have moved by now, but that isn't the case. My wife can retire and collect her pension in two years, but only if she finishes out the two years, otherwise she has to wait another seven years to start collecting her pension.

    There you go.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    The Front Range was fine until about 10 years ago. We've lived here over 30 years. If the Front Range was the same as 1995 or even 2005, we'd stay, but it isn't. Look at the bullshit crime that happens all over the metro area now. Dozens of bike shops are victims of smash and grabs. Hit and run pedestrian and bike deaths every week. A former co-worker was driving Uber and got jacked and killed. Today, a cop gets shot at 80th and Kipling by a guy who has apparently been robbing gas stations and dispensaries for over a week. That isn't going to end well, this guy knows he is going down. I hope he doesn't take it out on any more innocent people. This is the kind of crap you just didn't see 10-20-30 years ago outside of Denver proper, now it is everywhere in the metro area.
    It's everywhere because the media is everywhere. Nothing happens that goes unnoticed or unreported these days. The same shit happened back in 2005, you just didn't hear about it.

    This thread was going so smoothly for the first 50-60 posts and was actually pretty informative to read, but now it's unfortunately turned into another "bitch about the Front Range" clusterf*ck.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    The Front Range was fine until about 10 years ago. We've lived here over 30 years. If the Front Range was the same as 1995 or even 2005, we'd stay, but it isn't. Look at the bullshit crime that happens all over the metro area now. Dozens of bike shops are victims of smash and grabs. Hit and run pedestrian and bike deaths every week. A former co-worker was driving Uber and got jacked and killed. Today, a cop gets shot at 80th and Kipling by a guy who has apparently been robbing gas stations and dispensaries for over a week. That isn't going to end well, this guy knows he is going down. I hope he doesn't take it out on any more innocent people. This is the kind of crap you just didn't see 10-20-30 years ago outside of Denver proper, now it is everywhere in the metro area.

    If I worked a shitty job that was interchangeable with another shitty job somewhere else, I would have moved by now, but that isn't the case. My wife can retire and collect her pension in two years, but only if she finishes out the two years, otherwise she has to wait another seven years to start collecting her pension.

    There you go.
    Things have changed around here. It sounds like you've been frustrated for 10 years and are willing to put up with 2 more...that's actually really close and will be here before you know it.

    Perhaps we need a 2 year countdown and 2 year rant count up...

    BTW, the Front Range isn't defined as the Denver Metro area, despite your myopic view.

    Edit: that sounds snarky when I re-read it. I hope you can get through the 2 years and find a better place to move/retire. As you've alluded to, there are places that might be a better fit for you and your wife long-term. Good luck making that move.
    baker

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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    It's everywhere because the media is everywhere. Nothing happens that goes unnoticed or unreported these days. The same shit happened back in 2005, you just didn't hear about it.
    I do wonder about this... On a semi-related note, I moved to Colorado Springs in 1994. At the time, there were lots an lots of murders being reported on the local news on a regular basis. I just decided to stop watching news and found out I was much happier...not sure if that counts as putting my head in the sand, but it worked for me.
    baker

  100. #100
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    Rather than wait for retirement, we travel a bunch and call it mini-retirements. If I waited until retirement age to go have fun, I'd probably get hit by a bus leaving the retirement office. We've seen a ton of places on a few continents, but my wife and I are always happy to return to Fort Collins, even with the growth here and the growing pains that come with it.

    We have tossed around the idea of having three homes in the future and spending 1/3 of the year each in Fort Collins, Summit County, and Queenstown, NZ, but all three places have changed a lot over the years. We'll just keep visiting places and see if we find somewhere else to set up a second (and third?) home base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    It's everywhere because the media is everywhere. Nothing happens that goes unnoticed or unreported these days. The same shit happened back in 2005, you just didn't hear about it.

    This thread was going so smoothly for the first 50-60 posts and was actually pretty informative to read, but now it's unfortunately turned into another "bitch about the Front Range" clusterf*ck.
    So true. On both accounts. Plus if you cant deal with Front Range then adjust or leave.
    I adjusted, 5 years ago i quit my dayly job to be able to ride more. One of the best decisions iever made. Ride/ hike pretty much every week day, after 9am there is minimal traffic, both hoghways and trails, back early/mid afternoon, still no traffic. Work from home, there is ton of work that can be done from home, i make more than i was ever making when i was employed, and work about half the time. Weekends spent with family/friends. I cant really complain.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    It's everywhere because the media is everywhere. Nothing happens that goes unnoticed or unreported these days. The same shit happened back in 2005, you just didn't hear about it.

    This thread was going so smoothly for the first 50-60 posts and was actually pretty informative to read, but now it's unfortunately turned into another "bitch about the Front Range" clusterf*ck.
    Ever wonder why there are so many "bitch about the Front Range clusterf*cks"? Maybe because the Front Range is a cluster****?

    Jeffco 2008-2018 (https://coloradocrimestats.state.co.us/tops/)

    Violent Crime - +20%
    Robbery - +76%
    Theft - +23%
    Burglary - -17%
    Fraud - +96%
    Vehicle theft - +86%

    Them's the facts. It doesn't even address the epidemic of hit and run murders.

    But what does it matter unless it actually happens to you?

    Hmm. In the past five years, I had so much shit stolen out of my mailbox that I had to get P.O. Box. Someone tried to steal my car out of the parking lot where I work, they were interrupted in the act after they had cut the horn wires to disable the alarm, and busted open the driver's door. $1100 damage. Two other cars were successfully stolen from there. My neighbor's house was broken into. A co-worker's truck was stolen right out of their driveway. Someone tailgated into our building at work and stole 6 laptops right off of people's desks.

    The previous 25+ years? Nothing.

    BTW, when my truck was broken into, the police wouldn't even take a report in person. They told me to go on a website and report it, they had more important things to worry about. **** that. I didn't even bother. I'm sure the vast majority of stuff isn't even reported anymore. When it gets to the point where the cops are too busy to even write up a report, I'm out of here. When it becomes the norm for people to run over pedestrians and cyclists and then run, I'm out of here.

    https://www.denverpost.com/2019/12/1...bery-shooting/
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...d-7b1e5aa47a6a
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...d-7b1e5aa47a6a
    https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/25/a...unty-injuries/
    https://www.dailycamera.com/2019/09/...red-bicyclist/
    https://www.dailycamera.com/2019/05/...and-run-crash/

  103. #103
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    You youngsters give this boomer a laugh. The Front Range (and the rest of CO) was great when I lived here in the '70s. I mentioned that back then a common bumper sticker was, "Don't Californicate Colorado." Evidently, that advice wasn't heeded.
    Do the math.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    You youngsters give this boomer a laugh. The Front Range (and the rest of CO) was great when I lived here in the '70s. I mentioned that back then a common bumper sticker was, "Don't Californicate Colorado." Evidently, that advice wasn't heeded.
    OK, Boomer.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Ever wonder why there are so many "bitch about the Front Range clusterf*cks"? Maybe because the Front Range is a cluster****?

    Jeffco 2008-2018 (https://coloradocrimestats.state.co.us/tops/)

    Violent Crime - +20%
    Robbery - +76%
    Theft - +23%
    Burglary - -17%
    Fraud - +96%
    Vehicle theft - +86%

    Them's the facts. It doesn't even address the epidemic of hit and run murders.

    But what does it matter unless it actually happens to you?

    Hmm. In the past five years, I had so much shit stolen out of my mailbox that I had to get P.O. Box. Someone tried to steal my car out of the parking lot where I work, they were interrupted in the act after they had cut the horn wires to disable the alarm, and busted open the driver's door. $1100 damage. Two other cars were successfully stolen from there. My neighbor's house was broken into. A co-worker's truck was stolen right out of their driveway. Someone tailgated into our building at work and stole 6 laptops right off of people's desks.

    The previous 25+ years? Nothing.

    BTW, when my truck was broken into, the police wouldn't even take a report in person. They told me to go on a website and report it, they had more important things to worry about. **** that. I didn't even bother. I'm sure the vast majority of stuff isn't even reported anymore. When it gets to the point where the cops are too busy to even write up a report, I'm out of here. When it becomes the norm for people to run over pedestrians and cyclists and then run, I'm out of here.

    https://www.denverpost.com/2019/12/1...bery-shooting/
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...d-7b1e5aa47a6a
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...d-7b1e5aa47a6a
    https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/25/a...unty-injuries/
    https://www.dailycamera.com/2019/09/...red-bicyclist/
    https://www.dailycamera.com/2019/05/...and-run-crash/
    Dude. Just f***ing leave, already. Reminds me of this one:


  106. #106
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    Let's get this thread back on track.... enough of the bitching by honkinunit, there's another thread dedicated to that already.

    What about Ridgway? The housing is still *relatively* affordable, and it's a pretty nice quiet mountain town. You've got the RAT trail system right in town, and then Montrose 45 minutes north and T-ride 45 minutes south(west). The skiing access is pretty damn good too, with T-ride and Silverton damn close.

    Depending on your budget, Carbondale is a great option too... but damn it's pricey. Maybe Glenwood instead? That way you can easily escape to Fruita/GJ for winter riding when you need a fix.

    Oh, and I'd also echo what Goldenboy said several threads back: just because you like to vacation somewhere and think it's a great place to recreate, it's not necessarily a place to retire and spend all your time. Make sure you consider the standard of living and what you like to do off the bike/skis as well. I know it's a sin to mention around here, but there's a lot more to life than access to MTB trails and skiing. Especially in the mountains where you're not mountain biking for 4+ months a year (lots of wildlife closures) and you're not skiing for 7+ months each year.

  107. #107
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    Ridgway, huh...I suppose I drove through here on my honeymoon in '95 but have no recollection of the place. I was wow'd by Ouray, Silverton, and Durango at the time. I need to get back down there and check that area out. Seems fairly remote. Any decent medical facilities in the area?
    baker

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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Ridgway, huh...I suppose I drove through here on my honeymoon in '95 but have no recollection of the place. I was wow'd by Ouray, Silverton, and Durango at the time. I need to get back down there and check that area out. Seems fairly remote. Any decent medical facilities in the area?
    Medical care anywhere in Colorado west of the Front Range, other than a few boutique facilities like the Steadman Ortho clinic in Vail, is average at best, terrible in some cases. Also, the cost of medical insurance is among the highest in the country. If you have a chronic medical issue, the Western Slope is probably not for you.

    From Ridgway, Montrose (about 20 min.) and Delta (about 45 min.) both have small hospitals, but specialists, or major stuff, are either Grand Junction (1:45) or Denver (4 hours). I know people living over that way who have had cancer treatments, and they either stay in a hotel or rent an apartment in Grand Junction. I have a friend whose parents retired to Montrose about 20 years ago, and they just moved back to the Front Range because they simply couldn't get the medical care they needed out there. It is a concern.

    Ridgway itself is a tiny little art/tourist town. The State Park and RAT trails are nice, and there is more great riding within two hours. Telluride is about an hour on a good day. Moab is about 2:45, Crested Butte about 2 hours. Keep in mind there are no interstates out there, those routes are all two lane roads and weather can be a major factor many months of the year. Most of the houses outside of Ridgway proper are in major fire zones, so your homeowner's insurance will probably be higher than your property taxes. Most people slog up to Montrose to do their real shopping, there is no supermarket within 20 miles.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Let's get this thread back on track.... enough of the bitching by honkinunit, there's another thread dedicated to that already.

    What about Ridgway? The housing is still *relatively* affordable, and it's a pretty nice quiet mountain town. You've got the RAT trail system right in town, and then Montrose 45 minutes north and T-ride 45 minutes south(west). The skiing access is pretty damn good too, with T-ride and Silverton damn close.

    Depending on your budget, Carbondale is a great option too... but damn it's pricey. Maybe Glenwood instead? That way you can easily escape to Fruita/GJ for winter riding when you need a fix.

    Oh, and I'd also echo what Goldenboy said several threads back: just because you like to vacation somewhere and think it's a great place to recreate, it's not necessarily a place to retire and spend all your time. Make sure you consider the standard of living and what you like to do off the bike/skis as well. I know it's a sin to mention around here, but there's a lot more to life than access to MTB trails and skiing. Especially in the mountains where you're not mountain biking for 4+ months a year (lots of wildlife closures) and you're not skiing for 7+ months each year.
    We should talk about this more if we hit LHCOHV this afternoon. Eagle too, for that matter.

  110. #110
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    Any of you all ever live in a small town? Sure the front range has blown up and it has certain frustrations, there are also some great things about it. Of course the traffic can be a drag if you have to deal with it, but it isn't LA.. Do you have a significant other that likes to go out to eat, maybe shop, movies etc?? It sounds cool to live in some of Colorado's small towns, but there isn't much going on in regards to those things. If your only criteria is outdoor recreation and solitude it will work well, but that's about it..

    I lived in Gunnison for 10 years, would never want to live there now and my wife would go bonkers.

    There is no easy solution, but hopefully everyone finds what works for them..
    BBZ

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  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    Any of you all ever live in a small town? .
    I grew up in a small town, my wife grew up on a farm outside of an even smaller town. She'd rather shop at the hardware store than anywhere else, she likes to garden, cooks, movies are available on this thing called the internet.

    Her parents are in their late 80's, both still garden, her dad still works at an organic farm fixing broken equipment. She wants her retirement to be just like theirs.

    We love that the vast majority of people couldn't hack living in a small town, but we aren't going to live *in* a small town, just close enough to grab coffee and groceries occasionally. We are looking for an obscure house, on an obscure road, outside of an obscure town in a flyover state.

  112. #112
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    https://youtu.be/HzW9RMTBrNU

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  113. #113
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    I once drove the back way to Utah, just to see what was down there, down through Montrose/Ridgway/Naturita/Slickrock (yes, Slickrock Colorado)/Egnar/Dove Creek and it was nothing but miles and miles of nothing but miles.

    I kept shaking my head, wondering out loud "who would live here?" Not City folk, that's for sure. You'd have to be OK with making an all-day journey just to get supplies. Medical help? Same.
    Wait your turn, take your turn, cover your azz John Correia

  114. #114
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    Speaking of retiring in Summit County, apparently they don't like old people.
    Bill’s Ranch residents, Summit County government face showdown over plan to develop open space for senior living

    The phony outrage over 6 acres of worthless OS is hillarious. The reality is it's probably being used as a private dog park (toilet) on public owned land by those who are pretending to be so upset. They will soon learn that as the land owner, the county can do whatever the hell they want with that land.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    ... If you have a chronic medical issue, the Western Slope is probably not for you...
    Unfortunately, medical conditions can tend to start cropping up as people get into their late 60s and beyond. You retire and relocate feeling great and a few years later, uh oh.... If it's just you, it's one thing. If it's you and your SO, the chances one of you having problems increases. Def something sobering to keep in mind.
    Do the math.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Ever wonder why there are so many "bitch about the Front Range clusterf*cks"? Maybe because the Front Range is a cluster****?

    Jeffco 2008-2018 (https://coloradocrimestats.state.co.us/tops/)

    Violent Crime - +20%
    Robbery - +76%
    Theft - +23%
    Burglary - -17%
    Fraud - +96%
    Vehicle theft - +86%

    Them's the facts. It doesn't even address the epidemic of hit and run murders.

    But what does it matter unless it actually happens to you?

    Hmm. In the past five years, I had so much shit stolen out of my mailbox that I had to get P.O. Box. Someone tried to steal my car out of the parking lot where I work, they were interrupted in the act after they had cut the horn wires to disable the alarm, and busted open the driver's door. $1100 damage. Two other cars were successfully stolen from there. My neighbor's house was broken into. A co-worker's truck was stolen right out of their driveway. Someone tailgated into our building at work and stole 6 laptops right off of people's desks.

    The previous 25+ years? Nothing.

    BTW, when my truck was broken into, the police wouldn't even take a report in person. They told me to go on a website and report it, they had more important things to worry about. **** that. I didn't even bother. I'm sure the vast majority of stuff isn't even reported anymore. When it gets to the point where the cops are too busy to even write up a report, I'm out of here. When it becomes the norm for people to run over pedestrians and cyclists and then run, I'm out of here.

    https://www.denverpost.com/2019/12/1...bery-shooting/
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...d-7b1e5aa47a6a
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...d-7b1e5aa47a6a
    https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/25/a...unty-injuries/
    https://www.dailycamera.com/2019/09/...red-bicyclist/
    https://www.dailycamera.com/2019/05/...and-run-crash/
    I used to live at the southern base of Worstminster and felt this pretty hard. Was decent for awhile, then started to regularly hear gun shots, witness drug deals, and came by the police taking pics of a dead body in a front yard on a commute home this spring. Finally moved this fall into the foothills, and it's an entirely different world. People are friendly, it's less crowded, and I'm significantly closer to trails. I agree that a move can be a tremendous help but it doesn't have to be incredibly far away to net significant benefits. IOf course there are things I'd improve about the area I live in now but they're pretty small compromises in my book.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    I used to live at the southern base of Worstminster and felt this pretty hard. Was decent for awhile, then started to regularly hear gun shots, witness drug deals, and came by the police taking pics of a dead body in a front yard on a commute home this spring. Finally moved this fall into the foothills, and it's an entirely different world. People are friendly, it's less crowded, and I'm significantly closer to trails. I agree that a move can be a tremendous help but it doesn't have to be incredibly far away to net significant benefits. IOf course there are things I'd improve about the area I live in now but they're pretty small compromises in my book.
    So true..
    We lived in the nice part of Denver (highlands for 12 years) and while it was fun, it got old. We were lucky to find a place in Golden (east side of NTM, so not in town) and its so much better for us. I can pedal from the house to almost any Golden rides. That alone makes it great. We don't have a daily commute, but do drive a lot for work, but can pick and choose when..
    BBZ

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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Yeah - I used to work at HP on Harmony. Commuted from Lakewood (Green Mountain). Supervisor and I would carpool, meet at 120th, and boogie on up. I could do door-to-door in less than 60 minutes, even with the 120th stop.

    Still an AWFUL commute, though. Also lucky I never got any speeding citations on that one...

    When I grew up on Harmony Road it was dirt and Fort Collins was cool. East Orchard Mesa is a great spot to be retired but I’m sure Honk would find something wrong with it. Plunge on. Oh, and New Zealand for 6 months last year was awesome.

  119. #119
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    I have some fond memories of living in the Harmony Village trailer park for a while when in grad school.
    Do the math.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanMan View Post
    When I grew up on Harmony Road it was dirt and Fort Collins was cool. East Orchard Mesa is a great spot to be retired but I’m sure Honk would find something wrong with it. Plunge on. Oh, and New Zealand for 6 months last year was awesome.
    Oh no, we've looked at Palisade/East Orchard Mesa and they are on our short list. Cost is the issue, especially if you want irrigation water. I wish I had dumped every investment dollar I had in that area in 2009! I think escalation of prices there is second only to Mancos among the places we are considering.

    Mancos is ridiculous. Real estate has been going up by 10-20% a year since about 2012. The really good houses never even make the MLS because a lot of people have put their names in to be contacted whenever a property is about to hit the market. I was told that the sales are coming from people abandoning the Front Range, and also people abandoning Durango, but who still need to work there.

    There are several areas that are really being discovered right now. Palisade/EOM, Fruita, Ridgway, Mancos/Dolores/Cortez. All have rapidly rising real estate prices. Things have slowed just a little in the past 12 months though. It is impossible to know if this is a peak to be followed by declines, or just a pause before they go up again. There are still lots of boomers to be retiring in the next five to ten years, and even if only 5% are going to leave the Front Range, that is a lot of people when you consider the small population base in western CO, outside of GJ. I know several families who are absolutely leaving, they are all on the hunt just like we are. So far, I know people going to Sheridan, WY, Custer, SD, Montrose, Pagosa Springs, and Fruita.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I have some fond memories of living in the Harmony Village trailer park for a while when in grad school.
    I grew up across the street from there.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I know several families who are absolutely leaving, they are all on the hunt just like we are. So far, I know people going to Sheridan, WY, Custer, SD, Montrose, Pagosa Springs, and Fruita.
    Yeah I can see the people who have lived here for 40 years are ready for the next spot, sure, but MANY want to be here in Colorado...on the Front Range. We have a fairly new AirBnB property in Fort Collins on the west side of town (close to trails) and though it would be families wanting to come and visit their kids. Seems like 80% so far are 20-30 somethings visiting from Texas, California, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Washington and Oregon looking to relocate here.

    Regardless of where in Colorado, it's a pretty amazing place. You could live in a worse place based on my interactions.
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanMan View Post
    When I grew up on Harmony Road it was dirt and Fort Collins was cool.
    I've lived here since 1999 and it is getting cooler by the year here IMHO. Way more bike trails (paved and dirt) too.
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    I've lived here since 1999 and it is getting cooler by the year here IMHO. Way more bike trails (paved and dirt) too.
    It has changed a lot since I got here in 1973, but I still like it.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post

    Regardless of where in Colorado, it's a pretty amazing place. You could live in a worse place based on my interactions.
    I've seen some places on the Eastern Plains that would make me choose Mississippi over Colorado.

  126. #126
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    Scottsdale Az..

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I've seen some places on the Eastern Plains that would make me choose Mississippi over Colorado.
    Mississippi seems like it would probably be good for you.

  128. #128
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    We are targeting Steamboat for our next phase of life. Still a couple years out from that happening, but I think we can pull it off.

    Have a small condo in Steamboat as of last April so been spending a lot of time there. Man skiing has been really good so far this year!

    Thinking we will move there in 2022 or 23 live in the small condo and rent our place in Golden out. If things work out in Steamboat for us sell our house in Golden and roll all that equity into something in Steamboat and put the condo back into the short term rental market.

    My wife is a nurse so she can find work in Steamboat and I will need to figure it out. Overall we love Golden and I could actually see retiring here, but I am growing old of the corporate job I have....not sure I want to keep that going much longer.

    Just turned 44....would be nice to get some big ski years in again while I can still ski at a high level.

  129. #129
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    Steadyflow gets it^ Noice!
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Mississippi seems like it would probably be good for you.
    LMAO. You have not yet heard me begin to bitch about someplace. I did my penance in Florida, close enough. No way would I live in the South again.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    LMAO. You have not yet heard me begin to bitch about someplace. I did my penance in Florida, close enough. No way would I live in the South again.
    You seem to have a knack for moving to places you think suck.

    I'm not saying it's you...

    But it's probably you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    It has changed a lot since I got here in 1973, but I still like it.
    If you've been there the whole time, the change is gradual and you hardly notice it. I got there in '75 and left in '86 moving out of state (lived in Harmony Village in '79). The few times I've gone back since then, the amount of change each time was shocking. The last time I was through was in Aug '17 driving up and back on 287 etc to Casper for the solar eclipse. The whole front range up to the Fort is really developed and busy...non-stop strip malls. A few miles north of the Fort and it's pretty much the same as it was 45 years ago. Somewhere out in that direction might be an interesting option.
    Do the math.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I grew up in a small town, my wife grew up on a farm outside of an even smaller town. She'd rather shop at the hardware store than anywhere else, she likes to garden, cooks, movies are available on this thing called the internet.

    Her parents are in their late 80's, both still garden, her dad still works at an organic farm fixing broken equipment. She wants her retirement to be just like theirs.

    We love that the vast majority of people couldn't hack living in a small town, but we aren't going to live *in* a small town, just close enough to grab coffee and groceries occasionally. We are looking for an obscure house, on an obscure road, outside of an obscure town in a flyover state.



    this is pretty much us as well...would like to live in a place where you know most of the people you see. A place where they aren't cutting down nature to build bulls**t prefab neighborhoods that will sit empty in 5 years as the next ring further out goes up
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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadyflow View Post
    but I am growing old of the corporate job I have....not sure I want to keep that going much longer.
    was in similar situation a few years back. at age 39 i quit my daily corp. job cold turkey. been doing contract jobs ever since and cant imagine going back. all you need is laptop and can work from anywhere. front range doesnt actually suck that much during week days and i really enjoy it.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    You seem to have a knack for moving to places you think suck.

    I'm not saying it's you...

    But it's probably you.

    When we moved to the Front Range 30+ years ago, it didn't suck.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    If you've been there the whole time, the change is gradual and you hardly notice it. I got there in '75 and left in '86 moving out of state (lived in Harmony Village in '79). The few times I've gone back since then, the amount of change each time was shocking. The last time I was through was in Aug '17 driving up and back on 287 etc to Casper for the solar eclipse. The whole front range up to the Fort is really developed and busy...non-stop strip malls. A few miles north of the Fort and it's pretty much the same as it was 45 years ago. Somewhere out in that direction might be an interesting option.
    I moved to Keystone in 1987 and again from 1991-1997, but have been back here since. Over here on the far west side of Fort Collins things haven't changed as much. I do detest any drive that involves I-25.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    When we moved to the Front Range 30+ years ago, it didn't suck.
    So do you consider yourself part of the problem, or is it just everyone ELSE that is part of the problem?


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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    So do you consider yourself part of the problem, or is it just everyone ELSE that is part of the problem?

    I don't drive like an idiot, ride like an idiot, ski like an idiot, leave bags of shit on the side of trails, steal from people, attempt to drive my shitty FWD car with bald tires up I-70 on a snow day, barge in front of people in line, talk on my cellphone in movie theaters, let my little brats run all over a nice restaurant screaming, turn my aggressive dog loose in a dog park, etc.

    The vast majority of people don't do that stuff either, but a critical mass of assholes comes with the increased population. It was reached about 10 years ago.

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    When I first got here in '75 the CO population was 2.5 million. (2,500,001 counting me). Now it's 5.6 million, and the very large majority of those additional 3.1 million (!!!) people live on the front range.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    When I first got here in '75 the CO population was 2.5 million. (2,500,001 counting me). Now it's 5.6 million, and the very large majority of those additional 3.1 million (!!!) people live on the front range.
    Yup.. approximately 4.5 million from Ft Collins down to Pueblo.. astounding..
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Over here on the far west side of Fort Collins things haven't changed as much. I do detest any drive that involves I-25.
    Yeah, I you are right. Anything west of 287/College Ave has been long developed and hasn't seen the development/growth like eastern Fort Collins/Timnath. Harmony Road east of College Ave reminds me of what I left Atlanta in 1999 at certain times of the day though.

    My son and I drove to check out a truck he was interested in yesterday in Aurora. Holy Balls, what a rat race. Couldn't pay me enough to have to do that drive even 2x a week, yet I have neighbors that do. One even drives to the tech center 3x a week.
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  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I don't drive like an idiot, ride like an idiot, ski like an idiot, leave bags of shit on the side of trails, steal from people, attempt to drive my shitty FWD car with bald tires up I-70 on a snow day, barge in front of people in line, talk on my cellphone in movie theaters, let my little brats run all over a nice restaurant screaming, turn my aggressive dog loose in a dog park, etc.

    The vast majority of people don't do that stuff either, but a critical mass of assholes comes with the increased population. It was reached about 10 years ago.
    Gotcha - so everyone else is the problem.

    Good to know.


  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Gotcha - so everyone else is the problem.

    Good to know.

    It does raise the question of what annoying habits one does possess. Hmmmm. Sort of like how everyone is an above average driver...LOL...there's bliss in lacking self-awareness.

    I was born and raised in the most densely populated state. Other people's BS is just a fact of life there...and the vast majority learn how to coexist without (always) losing their minds. If you are all-consumed with hyper focus on the stupid sh1t other people do, you're going to make yourself miserable - it is uncontrollable. People density didn't offer me much - but admittedly that sort of living is good for others - so I made a change. But I encourage this moment of honest reflection - can you break your habit of being up in other people sh1t? Let me tell you, there's no shortage of opportunities to judge others in small town living.
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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    It does raise the question of what annoying habits one does possess. Hmmmm. Sort of like how everyone is an above average driver...LOL...there's bliss in lacking self-awareness.

    I was born and raised in the most densely populated state. Other people's BS is just a fact of life there...and the vast majority learn how to coexist without (always) losing their minds. If you are all-consumed with hyper focus on the stupid sh1t other people do, you're going to make yourself miserable - it is uncontrollable. People density didn't offer me much - but admittedly that sort of living is good for others - so I made a change. But I encourage this moment of honest reflection - can you break your habit of being up in other people sh1t? Let me tell you, there's no shortage of opportunities to judge others in small town living.

    My wife and I both grew up in small towns, we have lived everywhere from very rural, to very urban. Guess what? We don't have to put up with other peoples BS if we don't want to, and we know it, because we grew up in that lifestyle and still visit often. It really is true that there is a critical mass of idiocy past a certain population point. If you have a town of 2000, and 20 of the people are whack, it is a lot harder for them to get away with crap, and to find like minded assholes, than it is in a town of 20,000, or 200,000 or 2,000,000. In fact, the ones that are truly idiots tend to gravitate away from small towns, because everyone knows who they are, and they pay for that notoriety socially and legally. Example: moron has a DUI conviction and a suspended license. In Denver, people just drive and almost never get caught. In a small town, the cops know who they are, where they live, and what they drive. Cop gets a visual on them, they have due cause to pull them over. People will also more readily call in the local jerk who they know has a tainted license or a warrant. A lot of people with these kinds of self inflicted issues will just move to a large metro area so that they can avoid the pain.

    It isn't just the sheer numbers of whack in urban areas, it is a higher percentage as well, because criminals and bad behavior are not as readily tolerated in a small town.

  145. #145
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    You should write a book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    My wife and I both grew up in small towns, we have lived everywhere from very rural, to very urban. Guess what? We don't have to put up with other peoples BS if we don't want to, and we know it, because we grew up in that lifestyle and still visit often. It really is true that there is a critical mass of idiocy past a certain population point. If you have a town of 2000, and 20 of the people are whack, it is a lot harder for them to get away with crap, and to find like minded assholes, than it is in a town of 20,000, or 200,000 or 2,000,000. In fact, the ones that are truly idiots tend to gravitate away from small towns, because everyone knows who they are, and they pay for that notoriety socially and legally. Example: moron has a DUI conviction and a suspended license. In Denver, people just drive and almost never get caught. In a small town, the cops know who they are, where they live, and what they drive. Cop gets a visual on them, they have due cause to pull them over. People will also more readily call in the local jerk who they know has a tainted license or a warrant. A lot of people with these kinds of self inflicted issues will just move to a large metro area so that they can avoid the pain.

    It isn't just the sheer numbers of whack in urban areas, it is a higher percentage as well, because criminals and bad behavior are not as readily tolerated in a small town.
    Clearly you have never been to Lake City, CO.. thats where the whacks go to hide from the law.. or Ward...
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  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    It isn't just the sheer numbers of whack in urban areas, it is a higher percentage as well, because criminals and bad behavior are not as readily tolerated in a small town.
    Maybe. I live in a rural small town - like now. Once you settle, I think you may be surprised that things are different everywhere from what you remember from 25+ years ago. It's not just Denver that changed. I agree tho - no point in putting up with it if it's making you unhappy and I also agree cities draw in their own 'special'.

    But, hey, I bet it'll be refreshing to have the long-time locals be complaining about you for a change when some of those Front Range habits surface you didn't even know you had. Ride it out if you can though - ain't nothing like small town peer pressure to knock off and smooth out some of those rough city burrs. I don't think it's necessarily harder living rural/small town but people who don't jive do tend to leave in short order - which I don't think happens as readily in the city. We'll civilize you lot yet.
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  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Maybe. I live in a rural small town - like now. Once you settle, I think you may be surprised that things are different everywhere from what you remember from 25+ years ago. It's not just Denver that changed. I agree tho - no point in putting up with it if it's making you unhappy and I also agree cities draw in their own 'special'.

    But, hey, I bet it'll be refreshing to have the long-time locals be complaining about you for a change when some of those Front Range habits surface you didn't even know you had. Ride it out if you can though - ain't nothing like small town peer pressure to knock off and smooth out some of those rough city burrs. I don't think it's necessarily harder living rural/small town but people who don't jive do tend to leave in short order - which I don't think happens as readily in the city. We'll civilize you lot yet.

    They won't be complaining. Contrary to the beliefs of people who have never lived in a truly small town, people really don't give a shit what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect them. If you are a criminal idiot, yes, you'll have a hard time. If you play loud music at 11:30PM, yes, you'll have a hard time. If your kids are delinquents, yes, you'll have a hard time. If you habitually drive 40MPH in a 25MPH zone, yes, you'll have a hard time. Hang out in the local bar telling people that the way things are in Denver is the "right" way, you'll have a hard time. And on and on.

    Paint your house purple, fly your freak flag, whatever. No one cares. Just don't be an idiot. A surprising number of people have difficulty with that.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    You should write a book.
    You're right: "Why Cities Suck - And Why I'm Glad Everyone Else Loves Them"

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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    Clearly you have never been to Lake City, CO.. thats where the whacks go to hide from the law.. or Ward...
    I've been to both places - I'd rather live in either one of those than Denver.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    They won't be complaining. Contrary to the beliefs of people who have never lived in a truly small town, people really don't give a shit what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect them.
    Lol. Good start. I def recommend telling people who actually live in a small town what it is like before you get there and what we welcome & tolerate. Protip: you'll gain more goodwill by listening and sharing positivity before getting to your opinions.

    Edit: As this might be useful, while it's not position I hold, just being from "the city" or Front Range, there will be people who will start you with one strike - if for no other reason, you are buying up local property and driving the cost of living for the locals. Just sayin' - before you get sad that no one throws you a parade day 1. Coming from a guy with literally a purple house - that one hit home!
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  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I've been to both places - I'd rather live in either one of those than Denver.
    And yet... here you are.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    <snip> Protip: you'll gain more goodwill by listening and sharing positivity before getting to your opinions.
    I'm sure that the ONLY reason he's such a Debbie Downer is because he is stuck in a city. I bet that the MOMENT he moves to his little slice of paradise, that grumpy-$hit attitude will magically disappear.

  154. #154
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    Let's get this thread back on track. I'm nowhere near retiring (although I don't really care, since I love my business), but if I could stop working tomorrow and had ultimate flexibility I'd do something like this:

    - Live full-time where I do right now, in Niwot. It's nice and quiet here, yet I've got immediate access to Boulder and Longmont, and plenty of good riding on the northern Front Range (north of Golden) to keep me happy while I'm actually home.
    - Spend a couple of months each winter in St. George, UT (Jan/Feb).
    - Head east to Brevard, NC for a month each spring (April).
    - Spend a few weeks in June in Sun Valley, ID.
    - Spend a few weeks in July in Crested Butte.
    - Head north of the border in August to Revelstoke or Nelson, BC.
    - Back to Crested Butte in mid-September for a couple of weeks.

    One caveat, I could care less about skiing so my locations are based on mountain biking and beautiful landscapes, combined with towns I like spending time in.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Let's get this thread back on track. I'm nowhere near retiring (although I don't really care, since I love my business), but if I could stop working tomorrow and had ultimate flexibility I'd do something like this:

    - Live full-time where I do right now, in Niwot. It's nice and quiet here, yet I've got immediate access to Boulder and Longmont, and plenty of good riding on the northern Front Range (north of Golden) to keep me happy while I'm actually home.
    - Spend a couple of months each winter in St. George, UT (Jan/Feb).
    - Head east to Brevard, NC for a month each spring (April).
    - Spend a few weeks in June in Sun Valley, ID.
    - Spend a few weeks in July in Crested Butte.
    - Head north of the border in August to Revelstoke or Nelson, BC.
    - Back to Crested Butte in mid-September for a couple of weeks.

    One caveat, I could care less about skiing so my locations are based on mountain biking and beautiful landscapes, combined with towns I like spending time in.
    not a bad plan..

    We are a funny bunch.. we are hoping to retire to ride all the time, by the time we all retire we probably won't be able to ride much.. haha..

    I try to ride as much as I can, and travel while I can (2 trips to Canada in 2019!).. you never know what is going to happen..
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  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    not a bad plan..

    We are a funny bunch.. we are hoping to retire to ride all the time, by the time we all retire we probably won't be able to ride much.. haha..

    I try to ride as much as I can, and travel while I can (2 trips to Canada in 2019!).. you never know what is going to happen..
    I've got clients that are in their early to mid-60's that can absolutely rip on a mountain bike... so I figure I've got plenty of time left to enjoy legit mountain biking.

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    ^^^ yeah. The age when decrepitude starts can vary quite a bit. 65 is the traditional/average inflection point, but some can go much longer than others depending on a lot of variables, some of which are just the luck of the draw. It's rare that you have to stop. You just slow down a lot more.
    Do the math.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^^^ yeah. The age when decrepitude starts can vary quite a bit. 65 is the traditional/average inflection point, but some can go much longer than others depending on a lot of variables, some of which are just the luck of the draw. It's rare that you have to stop. You just slow down a lot more.
    I have no doubt that I will ride into my 70's, but... I won't be sending it like I do now that's for sure.. I just hit 50 and thankfully still healthy, riding well but definitely not hitting the big stuff I used to.. (I did get out of the DH scene a few years ago so that is part of it)..
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    I have no doubt that I will ride into my 70's...
    That's definitely the attitude to have, but the thing is, you just don't know. I have friends riding hard in their 70's and friends who didn't make it to their 70s. I was going great until I hit a health kink at 65. I'm somewhat recovered and still going, but at a fraction of what I was before that.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    That's definitely the attitude to have, but the thing is, you just don't know. I have friends riding hard in their 70's and friends who didn't make it to their 70s. I was going great until I hit a health kink at 65. I'm somewhat recovered and still going, but at a fraction of what I was before that.
    Sorry to hear that.. but yeah, that is the reason to enjoy it all when you can.. you never know what is going to happen.. Rode 170 rides this year (with no rides in Jan/Feb and 8 weeks off in the fall due to an injury).. gotta get it while you can..
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    I keep looking around with the grass is greener syndrome we all have...

    I like where I'm at (Goulder), and I dont plan on changing my life habits.
    Apex is still a hoot on Tuesdays (pedal from home), and I can ride Ebikes there when I get older... or now. Loveland is close (40 min) and powder on Wednesdays will always be cool, even when I need an O2 mask to ride chair 9.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  162. #162
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    Whistler. Biking in summer, snowboarding in winter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisT View Post
    Whistler. Biking in summer, snowboarding in winter.
    IF you are rich... and a Canadian.. I am 0 for 2 there..
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    I'm with smmokan. I like my current home base a fair amount (Evergreen), but might downsize just for maintenance purposes. We are technically clear creek so taxes are sane. But we would like to roam around a bit of the year. Everywhere else has some pros and cons. I don't know how prickly some of your personalities are, but I have a fairly established social network here that took some years to develop, and that's a huge part of daily interactions and happiness. We could probably live in a number of places but it takes time to put down roots and develop a support network. I'm not sure that's something we have the mental energy to start over with, but then again - maybe if we aren't working it wouldn't be as bad.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    I'm with smmokan. I like my current home base a fair amount (Evergreen), but might downsize just for maintenance purposes. We are technically clear creek so taxes are sane. But we would like to roam around a bit of the year. Everywhere else has some pros and cons. I don't know how prickly some of your personalities are, but I have a fairly established social network here that took some years to develop, and that's a huge part of daily interactions and happiness. We could probably live in a number of places but it takes time to put down roots and develop a support network. I'm not sure that's something we have the mental energy to start over with, but then again - maybe if we aren't working it wouldn't be as bad.
    Good points there! We would love to downsize as well (one kid out this coming summer and one in 10th grade).. We look all the time, it is just really hard to find anything that doesn't require a huge renovation (we just spent 5 years fixing up our current house, not sure we want to do it again). We could easily stay near Golden, but wouldn't mind being a little further away from neighbors.. If we could just travel 3-4 months a year, I would be happy here (not much of a winter person).
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    (not much of a winter person).
    I used to really hate winter, especially the short daylight hours. Then I took up snowboarding, and couldn't wait for winter, and I'd whine and complain all summer. Then I took up mountain biking. That just leaves me a couple of weeks of transition twice a year when I can get a good whinge going.
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  167. #167
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    I got quite some time to go being just short of 40. I have had similar conversations with my SO but it's generally it's more around the fact that we can both work remote. Strictly speaking about Colorado, I don't think we'd rather be anywhere else than Golden. This may change but I just don't see other places being that attractive. Front range is crowded but we generally avoid the rat race.

    Mountain towns don't do it for me. Already did that thing. Also, just too damn cold up there. As much as I like Fruita/Junction, I can't see living there. I suspect even less so the older I get. Durango is kinda interesting. Little hard to get to but again, I don't have a burning desire to live.

    California? Eh, so god damn expensive and way too many people.

    Missoula is nice but the weather sucks, the skiing is alright and biking is also mediocre.

    We both like AZ. Sedona is sort of interesting. Sort of touristy but a hell of a lot more going on than a place like Moab and it's pretty damn close to PHX. I wonder if the tourist thing would drive me crazy.

    PHX is interesting. I love the riding around there. It's a crazy sprawling place but it also never feels that big. I've spent a lot of time down there and understand the lay of the land but man, i'll damed if there's like a "mountain bike" areas to live. In Denver the hot spots are obvious. Not so much there from what I can tell?

    Tucson is also pretty cool. Certainly different. Tacos are amazing and the lemon drop is one of my all time favorites. More reasonable size as well.

    AZ real estate prices are also far more affordable.

    Lastly, a couple things on skiing IMO:

    1) If you really want to be a skier, live really near the mountain. Otherwise, you're better off choosing a place to live based on all other factors (biking, culture, price) and traveling to ski (or springing for a condo).

    2) Front range skiing is average at best. It's crowded, we don't generally get a ton of skiing and the terrain is not great compared to the western slope (or better WY/MT).

    So I dunno. I'm staying put for a while. But maybe someday, a house in AZ and a condo in Big Sky for the same price as my house in Golden.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisT View Post
    I used to really hate winter, especially the short daylight hours. Then I took up snowboarding, and couldn't wait for winter, and I'd whine and complain all summer. Then I took up mountain biking. That just leaves me a couple of weeks of transition twice a year when I can get a good whinge going.
    I hear you, I skied and snowboarded for 25+ years.. but I just lost the love for it.. Not exactly sure why, but.. something about the crowds, hundreds of people going down the hill, and the lines, and the drive... and the good snow being skied off before 11 am even on a weekday? Backcountry just is too dangerous in my opinion.. I just know after 25+ years of skiing and mtn biking, I would much rather be on a mtn bike..
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    I got quite some time to go being just short of 40.

    Tucson is also pretty cool. Certainly different. Tacos are amazing and the lemon drop is one of my all time favorites. More reasonable size as well.

    Lastly, a couple things on skiing IMO:

    1) If you really want to be a skier, live really near the mountain. Otherwise, you're better off choosing a place to live based on all other factors (biking, culture, price) and traveling to ski (or springing for a condo).

    2) Front range skiing is average at best. It's crowded, we don't generally get a ton of skiing and the terrain is not great compared to the western slope (or better WY/MT).

    So I dunno. I'm staying put for a while. But maybe someday, a house in AZ and a condo in Big Sky for the same price as my house in Golden.
    I'm 44 with a freshman and 7th grader who are really into skiing, hence me on Zillow Steamboat Springs 15 minutes before checkin this post. Ha! That is the one down side of Fort Collins, we are far from good skiing.

    We really like Tucson! My aunt lives in Tucson I told my wife I could own a place there, but AirBnB or a month to month at this point probably makes more sense as I would really only likely be there for 3-4 months a year. Also check out Oro Valley. Catalina State Park (50 Year Trail) is pretty awesome, and Starr Pass/Tucson Mountain Park area with rides from your door.
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    I still don't know why anyone sees the Phoenix area as a place to retire and enjoy the outdoors. I have ridden there and even in the late winter and early spring the heat is deadly. There are some trails that I enjoy now since I am young enough to handle the steep loose chunk but I don't see these as what I would ride when I am 60 or 65. Phoenix is also absolutely impossible to walk or bike around even if it was 65 degrees year round as there is no infrastructure for pedestrians or bikers. Mass transit is also barely available. Maybe spending a few months there each winter would be ok but what the hell would you do the other 9 months of the year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    I hear you, I skied and snowboarded for 25+ years.. but I just lost the love for it.. Not exactly sure why, but.. something about the crowds, hundreds of people going down the hill, and the lines, and the drive... and the good snow being skied off before 11 am even on a weekday? Backcountry just is too dangerous in my opinion.. I just know after 25+ years of skiing and mtn biking, I would much rather be on a mtn bike..
    Same here. Skiing was my life for a couple of decades - even more than mountain biking but the crowds and traffic have killed it for me. I also don't like all of the driving involved. I used to want to buy a place in Summit county or somewhere but what would be the purpose? Those areas are painful to deal with on weekends and even some weekdays. You can't even go up there and get decent service at a restaurant anymore as they have such a hard time finding workers.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    I still don't know why anyone sees the Phoenix area as a place to retire and enjoy the outdoors. I have ridden there and even in the late winter and early spring the heat is deadly. There are some trails that I enjoy now since I am young enough to handle the steep loose chunk but I don't see these as what I would ride when I am 60 or 65. Phoenix is also absolutely impossible to walk or bike around even if it was 65 degrees year round as there is no infrastructure for pedestrians or bikers. Mass transit is also barely available. Maybe spending a few months there each winter would be ok but what the hell would you do the other 9 months of the year?
    I'm still wrapping my head around "Phoenix never feels that big." Fifth largest city in the country. What?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I'm still wrapping my head around "Phoenix never feels that big." Fifth largest city in the country. What?
    I also think it is the largest city in the US by land area as well since it is a complete sprawled wasteland.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    I still don't know why anyone sees the Phoenix area as a place to retire and enjoy the outdoors. I have ridden there and even in the late winter and early spring the heat is deadly. There are some trails that I enjoy now since I am young enough to handle the steep loose chunk but I don't see these as what I would ride when I am 60 or 65. Phoenix is also absolutely impossible to walk or bike around even if it was 65 degrees year round as there is no infrastructure for pedestrians or bikers. Mass transit is also barely available. Maybe spending a few months there each winter would be ok but what the hell would you do the other 9 months of the year?
    I've lived here for 18 years, and ride year-round. The worst of the heat is from mid-May to mid-Sept, and you just ride early or late, or in it (while moderating your trail/effort choices). It's quite doable, and really not "that" bad. And there are way more easy and moderate trails than "steep loose chunky" trails, all within 30-45 mins of Central Phoenix.

    Yes, it's sprawling, but so what? Pick an area and send your time there. I live in the East Valley (NE Mesa), right next to the Hawes trail system, and never go to the West side, except for Cardinals games. Everything I need and want is in the East Valley, including tons of well-varied riding choices.

    Re mass transit, I've never needed or used it, but it's Arizona and the West - we drive cars...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    Same here. Skiing was my life for a couple of decades - even more than mountain biking but the crowds and traffic have killed it for me. I also don't like all of the driving involved. I used to want to buy a place in Summit county or somewhere but what would be the purpose? Those areas are painful to deal with on weekends and even some weekdays. You can't even go up there and get decent service at a restaurant anymore as they have such a hard time finding workers.
    Yeah, I get that. I used to snowboard every weekend on Mt Seymour. Forty minute drive, and by 11am it was so crowded you'd hardly get in any runs. In fact, the 'Slopes' app showed me that I spent only 16% of my time actually going downhill.

    But I actually am semi-retired, so now I snowboard weekdays. Even at Whistler, it makes a huge difference (over 50% downhill time most days). Plus I'm walking distance to the lifts.

    It's all about planning your location, whether here or Phoenix or wherever. You work your entire friggin' life so you can retire and relax. Make it work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    I'm 44 with a freshman and 7th grader who are really into skiing, hence me on Zillow Steamboat Springs 15 minutes before checkin this post. Ha! That is the one down side of Fort Collins, we are far from good skiing.

    We really like Tucson! My aunt lives in Tucson I told my wife I could own a place there, but AirBnB or a month to month at this point probably makes more sense as I would really only likely be there for 3-4 months a year. Also check out Oro Valley. Catalina State Park (50 Year Trail) is pretty awesome, and Starr Pass/Tucson Mountain Park area with rides from your door.
    You're far from any good skiing on the FR IMO.

    Tucson is sort of a funny place. The lack of interstate (i10 is hardly any help) is weird. Everything is 30-40 minutes is every direction. I wonder if this would drive me crazy. Culturally, it's also quite different.

    I really like 50 year trial but I can't quite figure out the identity of Oro Valley. Is it families? Or retirees? It's also even further from downtown.

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    If I had to move back to the Front Range it would be Fort Collins. I don’t see that ever happening. Being retired in Palisade is great, lot’s of riding close. The $270 early season pass at Powderhorn is great too. 35 minute no traffic drive and no lift lines. When I need a bigger mtn I’ll drive without having to experience Front Range driving issues. Hopefully the lower half of The Plunge will be completed mid summer, it’s already a nice hike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanMan View Post
    That looks like a Grand Day, for sure.

    I think some of the dirtbike trails in that video are closed now? Or can you still bridge from Palisade to Fruita by going east of the GJ airport?

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    The BLM parts are still open. There is a checkerboard of private in there and those are being closed, I can’t blame them.

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    I want traveling

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    I didn't really plan on being retired at 48, but here I am....49 now actually. I've been in Colorado Springs since 1993, and it's just getting too damn big.

    Been looking at other areas with fewer people, but only to a point. As my wife and I have looked around, we've learned of problems we didn't know existed. Initially, we were focused on getting far away from anything and anyone, but then the reality of a grocery store being more than an hour away set in. And having to drive 15 miles of dirt road to get in or out. Property taxes are something I never thought about until looking at other states, and aging parents have also thrown a wrench in the works, needing to be close enough to help them when they need it.

    Access to trails was a primary reason for moving to Colo Sprgs all those years ago, and there's probably twice as many trails now, but I'm caring less and less about that as I get older. It's all become a bit too "bro-centric" and "environmentally conscious" for me. I'd probably be happy with dirt roads to ride near home for fitness, about 1/10th the people, and remote places to camp/ride within a couple hours drive.

    We've looked at Trinidad, Raton, Ute Park, Taos, ABQ, Grand Junction, Montrose, the Black Hills of SD, Casper, and more. As crazy as it sounds, Pueblo is looking pretty damn good right about now.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    I didn't really plan on being retired at 48, but here I am....49 now actually.
    Lucky bastid!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    ...here I am....49 now. I've been in Colorado Springs since 1993, and it's just getting too damn big...As crazy as it sounds, Pueblo is looking pretty damn good right about now.
    What do you think it's going to look like in 10-20 years?
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    What do you think it's going to look like in 10-20 years?
    I'm mostly wondering what my knees are going to look like in 10-20 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    What do you think it's going to look like in 10-20 years?
    That's a good question. I doubt it's ever going to see the explosive growth Colo Sprgs, Denver, or Ft. Collins has, or the growth the western slope is seeing now. It's too far from the mountains and ski resorts, not really the kind of scenery people associate with Colorado, too hot/dry for most people, and it has a high crime rate (relative to Colorado, not relative to Chicago).

    Property appreciation is important for younger people, but I'm reaching a point that I don't need that anymore. I need less money tied up in housing, and more in liquid investments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post


    We've looked at Trinidad, Raton, Ute Park, Taos, ABQ, Grand Junction, Montrose, the Black Hills of SD, Casper, and more. As crazy as it sounds, Pueblo is looking pretty damn good right about now.
    What did you not like about Montrose?

    The Black Hills seem good until you realize that winter sucks up there, and tourists ruin it for the five months the weather is good.

    I agree, looking at other states is appealing until you see the property taxes in some areas. Holy smokes, it is a second mortgage for a lot of people, but one that is never paid off and only goes up. To be honest though,something is going to have to give here in Colorado. There is a looming PERA issue that is going to come to a head, along with a ton of infrastructure issues. Taxes are going to have to rise whether it is property taxes or something else. I would vote for doubling the gas tax to help with roads and bridges, but there are other needs as well. We have had it good for a long time, and we will still be a low tax state compared to many others, but at some point you have to quit robbing Peter to pay Paul. The jail issue in Jeffco right now is just one example of what will be hundreds of issues soon.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    That's a good question. I doubt it's ever going to see the explosive growth Colo Sprgs, Denver, or Ft. Collins has, or the growth the western slope is seeing now. It's too far from the mountains and ski resorts, not really the kind of scenery people associate with Colorado, too hot/dry for most people, and it has a high crime rate (relative to Colorado, not relative to Chicago).

    Property appreciation is important for younger people, but I'm reaching a point that I don't need that anymore. I need less money tied up in housing, and more in liquid investments.
    I was just reading an article that mentioned Colorado has the 4th lowest property taxes in the nation. That's pretty darn attractive if you have a paid for house!

    https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...y-taxes/11585/

    Colorado Springs is out of control right now. We pulled off for a Dutch Bros coffee on our way to Durango a few weeks back and holy cow it is crazy!

    I'm in the same camp of liking a solid selection of good food, 3-4 minutes to a grocery store for my emergency cinnamon roll fix, etc. etc..so not sure I'd make it longer than a year in Montrose, Durango, Salida, etc.. I'd go nuts, and it would probably decrease my life expectancy tbh, ha!

    I've been hitting up Pueblo to ride this winter and love the "Pueblo West" side. Acreage, close to riding, and you can get a ton of house for your money. A bit lower class for my wife though. Lyons, West Loveland and West Fort Collins are all pretty awesome too. West Loveland is sweet, you are out of the "Front Range" craziness, close to solid riding, close to civilization and if you even look in the Masonville area you feel like you are in the mountains without being in the mountains. Same for West Fort Collins. Ride to Horsetooth Mountain Park and Bobcat Ridge from your house if you selected your location right. Down side is houses are super expensive up north right now. Another cool spot is west Cheyenne between Cheyenne and Kurt Gowdy State Park. People complain about the wind who have never lived there, but tbh I don't see the wind/weather being any worse than living in Evergreen in that spot. OK maybe a bit more windy when it is stormy. Dirt cheap houses, 20 minutes to Cheyenne, 30 minutes to Laramie, 50 minutes to Fort Collins, 90 minutes to N. Denver. So much good riding in Wyoming, and the gravel riding in Happy Jack and Veedawoo is pretty stellar. I pull my trailer and base camp there for a week in the summer when it is going to be 90-95 degrees in Denver and it barely makes it to 80 degrees. Can even pull a 4g connection from I-80 towers and hear zero road noise. You are out there, but still close to civilization.

    Those would be my choices I would be looking at if I stay on the Front Range, at least right now.

    Congrats on your financial independence at age 48, that's awesome. We are all jealous!

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    A bit lower class for my wife though. Lyons, West Loveland and West Fort Collins are all pretty awesome too. West Loveland is sweet, you are out of the "Front Range" craziness, close to solid riding, close to civilization and if you even look in the Masonville area you feel like you are in the mountains without being in the mountains. Same for West Fort Collins. Ride to Horsetooth Mountain Park and Bobcat Ridge from your house if you selected your location right. Down side is houses are super expensive up north right now. Another cool spot is west Cheyenne between Cheyenne and Kurt Gowdy State Park. People complain about the wind who have never lived there, but tbh I don't see the wind/weather being any worse than living in Evergreen in that spot. OK maybe a bit more windy when it is stormy. Dirt cheap houses, 20 minutes to Cheyenne, 30 minutes to Laramie, 50 minutes to Fort Collins, 90 minutes to N. Denver. So much good riding in Wyoming, and the gravel riding in Happy Jack and Veedawoo is pretty stellar. I pull my trailer and base camp there for a week in the summer when it is going to be 90-95 degrees in Denver and it barely makes it to 80 degrees. Can even pull a 4g connection from I-80 towers and hear zero road noise. You are out there, but still close to civilization.

    Those would be my choices I would be looking at if I stay on the Front Range, at least right now.

    Congrats on your financial independence at age 48, that's awesome. We are all jealous!
    You have to keep the wife happy. I'm glad my wife is even more rural-oriented than I am, it opens a lot more possibilities.

    We looked at west Loveland/Masonville. We really wanted to find something there, but the cost combined with the extreme fire dangers in some areas shut it down. I've harped on this before, but everyone needs to be *extremely* aware of fire ratings. A few more Paradise-type incidents, and the insurance situation is going to get real. We live in the Red Zone today, and we have exactly ONE company who will write a policy. If they drop, we are screwed. No insurance means your mortgage is in default. Hope your house is paid off and you can absorb the losses, because if the house is uninsurable you won't be selling it for anything other than pennies on the dollar. There are hundreds of thousands of homes in California that are only insurable through a state-run program, and Colorado has no such program.

    I think Pueblo West has pretty high fire danger, but not yet rated "extreme". It doesn't take a dense forest for the insurance companies to rate a house as being a fire risk, in fact, some houses on the eastern plains have similar issues due to range fires. I'm guessing some areas west of Cheyenne are also at risk for range fire.

    I love the global warming deniers that think a couple of degrees make no difference. When it changes moisture patterns, increases winds, and causes snow to start later and end earlier, it certain does make a difference, especially in Colorado where there can be microclimate transitions every mile.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    What did you not like about Montrose?

    The Black Hills seem good until you realize that winter sucks up there, and tourists ruin it for the five months the weather is good.

    I agree, looking at other states is appealing until you see the property taxes in some areas. Holy smokes, it is a second mortgage for a lot of people, but one that is never paid off and only goes up. To be honest though,something is going to have to give here in Colorado. There is a looming PERA issue that is going to come to a head, along with a ton of infrastructure issues. Taxes are going to have to rise whether it is property taxes or something else. I would vote for doubling the gas tax to help with roads and bridges, but there are other needs as well. We have had it good for a long time, and we will still be a low tax state compared to many others, but at some point you have to quit robbing Peter to pay Paul. The jail issue in Jeffco right now is just one example of what will be hundreds of issues soon.
    The two major issues with Montrose for us are, too far from aging parents in case of emergency, and an already overtaxed infrastructure in the midst of a population explosion. Getting around in that town on a day to day basis would be as bad as any big city in the state.

    The taxation thing is always puzzling for me. More people means more taxes. The state is taking in more revenue than ever before, but somehow isn't able to build roads at all, let alone at the pace they did in the 50's and 60's when the entire state had fewer than 2,000,000 people. I'm firmly in the camp of wanting to see less waste vs. higher tax rates. Personally, my property tax has doubled in the past five years, but they just keep crying poverty, asking for more, and wasting it on more and more crap.

  191. #191
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    Speaking of Montrose...One time I took the back way to Utah down through Gunnison/Cimarron on to Montrose. I have to say, on that day, the air quality was the worst I've ever experienced. It was like there was some cement plant right downtown belching noxious fumes, creating a light gray fog with attendant stink. It was hideous.

    I had a stop at the local City Market planned...I parked as close as I could, did my shopping...chatted up a local in line (but didn't want to dis her town with questions like "is the air this bad all the time here??")...ran back to my car and got the heck out of there.

    Maybe that day was just a one-off temperature inversion thing but, yikes.
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  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    The two major issues with Montrose for us are, too far from aging parents in case of emergency, and an already overtaxed infrastructure in the midst of a population explosion. Getting around in that town on a day to day basis would be as bad as any big city in the state.

    The taxation thing is always puzzling for me. More people means more taxes. The state is taking in more revenue than ever before, but somehow isn't able to build roads at all, let alone at the pace they did in the 50's and 60's when the entire state had fewer than 2,000,000 people. I'm firmly in the camp of wanting to see less waste vs. higher tax rates. Personally, my property tax has doubled in the past five years, but they just keep crying poverty, asking for more, and wasting it on more and more crap.
    A lot of the roads and highways built in the 1950's and 1960's were Federal projects under Eisenhower's interstate plan which was funded as a cold war method to quickly move troops. Taxes were much higher back then as well especially Federal Income taxes to pay for all this and the amount of federal budget going to SS and Medicaid was basically a rounding error as compared to today. Costs to build anything, even accounting for inflation, were much cheaper since the environmental review process basically didn't exist. Having seen how quickly property taxes can explode in the east coast I am a big supporter of low property taxes and would much rather see the gas tax doubled to fund transportation.

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    The taxation thing is always puzzling for me. More people means more taxes. The state is taking in more revenue than ever before, but somehow isn't able to build roads at all, let alone at the pace they did in the 50's and 60's when the entire state had fewer than 2,000,000 people. I'm firmly in the camp of wanting to see less waste vs. higher tax rates. Personally, my property tax has doubled in the past five years, but they just keep crying poverty, asking for more, and wasting it on more and more crap.
    More people = more tax revenue, but what you are missing is that a lot of people moving in are not generating the amount of taxes paid by the people already here. A large percentage of newcomers are aged 20-35, or retirees. Neither demographic generates a lot of new tax revenue. Also, it is well known that on average, people 20-35 these days do not make the same money older people did at the same age, relative to inflation. Lower incomes, lower taxes.

    I don't know where you live that your taxes have doubled in five years. We've been in our house over 30 years, and the taxes just reached the point where they are double what they were 30 years ago. The past five years (unincorporated Jeffco) they have only risen 10%.

    People who have older houses like ours are very lucky. Newer houses in the dreaded corporate subdivisions sprouting like weeds have a double whammy, because they have the "Metro Taxing District" scam to deal with. The Denver Post has had a fantastic series of articles outlining what a ridiculous situation Colorado has because we let the developers build new infrastructure instead of having local governments do it, like they do in almost every other state. Everyone should read those articles, it is truly an abomination. Another side effect of the Metro Taxing District scam is that as time goes on, houses that are *not* in HOAs and metro districts will continue to hold their value.

    Definitely a "Let the buyer beware" situation with the houses around here. Do your research.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    <snip> Personally, my property tax has doubled in the past five years, but they just keep crying poverty, asking for more, and wasting it on more and more crap.
    Please enlighten us - what are they (the State gov) "wasting" all this money on?

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    Lol getting around Montrose as bad as "any city"?

    That will NEVER even come close to happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    More people = more tax revenue, but what you are missing is that a lot of people moving in are not generating the amount of taxes paid by the people already here. A large percentage of newcomers are aged 20-35, or retirees. Neither demographic generates a lot of new tax revenue. Also, it is well known that on average, people 20-35 these days do not make the same money older people did at the same age, relative to inflation. Lower incomes, lower taxes.

    I don't know where you live that your taxes have doubled in five years. We've been in our house over 30 years, and the taxes just reached the point where they are double what they were 30 years ago. The past five years (unincorporated Jeffco) they have only risen 10%.

    People who have older houses like ours are very lucky. Newer houses in the dreaded corporate subdivisions sprouting like weeds have a double whammy, because they have the "Metro Taxing District" scam to deal with. The Denver Post has had a fantastic series of articles outlining what a ridiculous situation Colorado has because we let the developers build new infrastructure instead of having local governments do it, like they do in almost every other state. Everyone should read those articles, it is truly an abomination. Another side effect of the Metro Taxing District scam is that as time goes on, houses that are *not* in HOAs and metro districts will continue to hold their value.

    Definitely a "Let the buyer beware" situation with the houses around here. Do your research.
    My house was built in 1962 in the SW part of Colo Sprgs. No special taxing districts or HOA involved. In the five years I've lived in this house, the property tax has doubled. Housing values have certainly gone up, but not double. And if my tax has doubled, so have others'. That's a lot of revenue for the city to have them claiming poverty.

    It's a big item to consider in retirement. An extra $2k a year isn't a big deal for the average working family, but for people in retirement, it can be a big problem....almost as big a problem as our ever increasing health insurance costs. Mine have quadrupled since O'Bamacare was passed - despite being in good health.

    I didn't intend to derail this thread into an argument about taxation. Probably best to just say it's something to consider when looking at places to live in retirement, and leave it at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    My house was built in 1962 in the SW part of Colo Sprgs. No special taxing districts or HOA involved. In the five years I've lived in this house, the property tax has doubled.
    WHY did it double? Did the assessment just go up due to crazy-ass appreciation in the area? Something else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsdude47 View Post
    Lol getting around Montrose as bad as "any city"?

    That will NEVER even come close to happening.
    This. I mean... WTF?

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    ....almost as big a problem as our ever increasing health insurance costs. Mine have quadrupled since O'Bamacare was passed - despite being in good health.

    "Obamacare" has nothing to do with it. It's doctors and hospitals charging outrageous rates. One is not the other.
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    Health insurance/health care costs for two people between the ages of 50-and 65 will dwarf any property taxes in most places. This is another factor that must be considered if you plan on retiring before Medicare kicks in, and even after. Health insurance costs on the Western Slope of CO are some of the highest in the US, *much* higher than the Front Range or most other places one might choose to retire.

    Health insurance costs won't come down until health *care* costs come down. This ain't rocket science. The real issue is that every single aspect of the health care system has triple digit profits tacked on to everything. That BandAid cost 2 cents to make, by the time it gets through the distribution systems, doctors, facilities, etc, it is $10. This is simply f*&^cked, and it is why countries with nationalized healthcare can provide care at a much lower cost. Until this problem is solved, health *insurance* will continue to eat our economy from within.

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