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  1. #1
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    Take part in a Test Market and get free Colorado Maps (til 12/19/08)

    Hello-

    Our company, Intermap Technologies, will be releasing inexpensive maps you can download to your computer and print on your home printer. We're gathering feedback, and I'm posting on a few forums to ask Colorado recreational maps users to log on, download a few maps, and take a quick survey. These aren't specifically for biking, but for general outdoor use.

    If you're interested, log into the following site and use the pointer tool to select quads in Colorado. The prices are set to $0 (free) until Friday, December 19th, for the purposes of the test market. Maps are in PDF format, and be aware that we're having some bug issues with Mac users. Otherwise, there are no catches or ulterior motives- just one follow-up email with a link to the market research survey.

    Thanks for helping out!

    Map Store: https://store.accuterra.com

    User Name: bcamp

    Password: AccuTerra2.0

    We will be rolling out paper maps for the rest of the country over the next few months; so if you're not a CO rider, check back at AccuTerra.com for your state. BTW, we do sell digital maps for Magellan devices, and soon to be Bushnell and other GPS manufacturers....

    Thanks ~

    Josh Parker
    Marketing Manager
    Intermap Technologies, Inc
    Last edited by AccuTerra; 12-14-2008 at 07:43 PM.

  2. #2
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    I tried to download the map of central fort collins and all that came up was a blank pdf?

  3. #3
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    tried the one just west of fort collins and it was blank as well.
    What are the prices gonna be once you get things worked out?

  4. #4
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    I had a few come up blank also... I am trying other areas now

    Edit: the last few I have done worked out!
    Last edited by Funrover; 12-14-2008 at 11:38 PM.

  5. #5
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    Hi guys- are you on Macs, by chance? I just went through the store myself and downloaded the Ft. Collins quad, no problem. (see attached)

    If you're on Macs, upgrade your Adobe Reader to the most recent version (which is free) & try that. If you're not on a Mac, also try updating your Adobe Reader. http://get.adobe.com/reader/

    The files are big (anywhere from 10MB to 28MB), so they might be crashing an older version. Post here or PM me if you're still running into a wall with viewing the PDFs.

    Thanks for bearing with us. The prices will be determined by the market test, by the way. We'll send out a link to a quick survey that asks questions about the product. And we're randomly giving away one loaded Magellan GPS among those who participate in the survey, as a motivator to get people to respond.
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  6. #6
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    I downloaded a few. Looks like some of the map data is wrong. There is a road in the map of Lakewood near Cedar/Alkire that doesn't exist.

  7. #7
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    maybe I'm too stupid to figure it out. I logged in to the site you directed us to and all I get is a Google map inside a frame. Genius!
    Redstone Cyclery
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  8. #8
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    I'm on a mac, and I did manage to get it to work with the new acrobat reader, thanks!
    Did you guys decide on a price yet?

  9. #9
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    Re: Street names- the road data is from U.S government sources, so it's not completely up-to-date. But these are meant to be used for back-county recreation. Companies like MapQuest have teams of people to update road navigation data on a regular basis, but they also collect millions of $ in advertising revenue to keep all that detail relatively up-to-date. So if you need street maps of Lakewood, hit up MapQuest or Google. Our cartography team focuses on updating back-country trail & POI data , which is a daunting enough task with almost 300,000 square miles of National Forest and 130,000 square miles of National Parks. The only companies that are coming close to building that kind of database are companies such as National Geographic and DeLorme, and their software sells for up to $100 for just Colorado.

    Re: ignazjr - The detailed quads aren't shown through the Map Viewer because if they were, a customer would be able to screen capture the maps without paying for them. Try selecting a quad from the Google Map viewer by using the Pointer tool on the left, and add the quad from your cart - then just go through the checkout till you get to the download page.The price is set to $0 until this Friday - the participants in the test market will get a survey link later this week, and the market data will be used to determine the price.

  10. #10
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    The price will be determined by a survey that I'll be sending a link to later this week- we'll pull emails from the storefront database.

  11. #11
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    I selected 3 maps to download and choose to have them bundled into a single file download but when I opened the zip file it only contained 2 maps.I selected N40W105C4, N40W105C3, and N40W105B3. But N40W105B3 was missing from the concatenated zip file.The order number is BC004275.The confirmation email lists all three maps btw. I can try to get a recreate if you would like.

    I did originally select to download them as separate files but changed my mind and used the back button in firefox as I didn't see a back button in the app, then choose to download them as one file.

    I also get a "bad encrypt dictionary" error when trying to open the map. I was really out of date on my Acrobat reader and an upgrade fixed that.

    One other observation - I would have preferred that the zip file for the concatenated maps did not contain folder information such that they extract into separate folders. I would rather the extract into the same folder. I extracted them onto my desktop and it took a minute to find them since I was looking for PDFs rather than folders. There may be a reason you guys decided to go that route though.

  12. #12
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    Mmmmmm! That's some good spam!

  13. #13
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    I tried it but couldn't find where I downloaded it . . . failage.
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  14. #14
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    A couple questions:
    • Site does not accept valid emails e.g. xxx@q.com
    • Maps have same incorrect campsites in white river national forest that other providers give.
    • What makes these better than NG Trails illustrated for areas covered or TOPO Explorer?
    • If you buy the NG or DeLorme software, you can mark up your maps before printing.
    • If you own a Triton you can load NG state or explorer maps & imagery on unit.
    • If you own DeLorme PN series GPS, you can download their maps very cheaply.
    • Do your maps show BLM land boundaries at a useful scale (e.g. staying on public property)?
    2,000+ miles free Colorado FrontRange GPS enabled bike trails w/map overlays.
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  15. #15
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    I logged in to the site you directed us to and all I get is a Google map inside a frame. Genius!
    You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle.
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  16. #16
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    Topofusion!

    Still the best and cheap.

    www.topofusion.com

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gps_dr
    A couple questions:
    • Site does not accept valid emails e.g. xxx@q.com
    • Maps have same incorrect campsites in white river national forest that other providers give.
    • What makes these better than NG Trails illustrated for areas covered or TOPO Explorer?
    • If you buy the NG or DeLorme software, you can mark up your maps before printing.
    • If you own a Triton you can load NG state or explorer maps & imagery on unit.
    • If you own DeLorme PN series GPS, you can download their maps very cheaply.
    • Do your maps show BLM land boundaries at a useful scale (e.g. staying on public property)?
    The IT folks told me that the single-letter domain is tripping up the login, and they're looking into a fix.

    As for the other questions, the key is remembering the market that we're trying to hit. Admittedly, sites such as this where hardcore enthusiasts (whether they're cyclists, hunters, kayakers, BC skiers, etc) are probably going to spend the extra time or dough to create their own custom maps, or opt for an expensive GPS unit. But given the narrow scope of the launch test (Colorado), the time frame we'd like to acquire feedback, and the time of year; these sites are a good resource for finding map geeks that are willing to take a critical look.

    So it's not surprising to find people here that are used to a "higher-engagement" product, and are willing to spend $50-$100 to buy software or create their own stuff from various sources. Even 'free' maps are an investment - you might be able to download a USGS quad from a GIS server, import it into google, and spend time adding your info into a mashup; or you can spend a buck or so on a ready-to-print quad. Those who know how, and are willing to spend an evening customizing maps, will probably still do that; we're assuming that a majority of more 'casual' outdoor users might be willing to spend a nominal fee to get something better & more quickly than what's currently available for free. And it's already scaled & optimized to print on their home printer. The price will be a lot lower than a quad sheet & contain more information, but may not have the specific information you would get for mtn biking on, say, a Trails Illustrated map....for which you're going to pay $10-$17. Even TopoFusion - a nice site- requires a learning curve and some time to get what you want.

    So again, it's more about addressing a broader outdoor market; of which MTBR.com is probably not the ideal target. Most of the comparisons you cited require an investment of at least $50; and up to $600 for a fully-loaded Triton with a NG Colorado data purchase.

    In regards to GPS -This product is actually derived from an available data set that was built to run on Magellan devices currently (Tritons & eXplorists), and will soon be launched on Bushnell and Lowrance GPS devices. As a comparison to the NG product, there are a couple of differentiators-
    • it's vector data, which means that the you do not lose resolution at high zoom levels (take a look at NG Topo zoomed all the way in, and it's very pixelated and hard-to-read);

    • AccuTerra offers more regional coverage for less $ (CO-UT-AZ-NM for $60 on Magellan vs $99 for NG Colorado)

    • More POIs embedded in the data - over 1M in the US. We not only include trailheads and facilities, but other important information such as auto repair, bike shops, river access, some restaurants, vet clinics, and yes, liquor stores .

    • Land Use Boundaries - which of course maintain their delineation on the GPS screen down to the highest zoom (300'), keeping you off private land. The Topo Prints are limited to the 3.5' scale, but with a simple GPS fix from an older unit, or even a GPS-enabled Blackberry, you'll know if you're close to trespassing.


    Thanks for all the constructive feedback....

    Pabs- you can try logging back into the site (click the "Profile" link in the upper right) and re-download the packet.

    Retsin- I sent your issue to IT to diagnose the delivery. You can also try re-downloading through the Profile, if you're willing.

    Oh, and if there's campgrounds that are incorrect, it's probably because the incorrect public data was provided from White River NF. We're striving for the most accurate recreational data possible; Our cartography team is actively ingests / cleans up / verifies / fixes old and new information on-the-fly; and some of those changes you'll see in subsequent data releases. Which of course is a huge job in itself - almost 300,000 square miles of National Forest and 130,000 square miles of National Parks, plus BLM, etc, etc; and our team examins trail data on a per-quad basis for accuracy. If we see a need to add data (for example, river put-ins and take-outs) and we can adequately verify the data, we can add that layer. If we know that a trail has been closed because it's lynx habitat, we can remove it from the database quickly. Maps like the USGS quads are basically images, which are expensive to render often....so they're rarely updated.
    Last edited by AccuTerra; 12-16-2008 at 11:56 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AccuTerra
    But given the narrow scope of the launch test (Colorado), the time frame we'd like to acquire feedback, and the time of year; these sites are a good resource for finding map geeks that are willing to take a critical look.
    So...you want free QA/QC, IT, and GIS consulting services so you can make a profit? You might want to consider that the map geeks you're attempting to solicit either have resources to acquire maps for free or have already purchased the consumer-level software.

    Just my .02

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    So...you want free QA/QC, IT, and GIS consulting services so you can make a profit? You might want to consider that the map geeks you're attempting to solicit either have resources to acquire maps for free or have already purchased the consumer-level software.

    Just my .02
    Yes, that target market discrepancy is exactly what I mentioned in paragraph following that statement. Since we're a Colorado-based company, we started with our state; and the timing just happens to be when a lot of casual recreational users aren't thinking about hiking / biking outdoors. A limited test market is the only reasonable way to get the software running in a real, consumer environment, with lots of different configurations. And it also happens to be the best way to determine price sensitivity.

    We're not asking for anything else from those participants - if fact, we're going to draw a name from the list of survey participants (who already got a bunch of free maps, which they may or may not use) and give away a map-loaded GPS to someone. If that's not of any interest to you, then don't put yourself through the trouble of trying it & giving feedback.

  20. #20
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    So...you want free QA/QC, IT, and GIS consulting services so you can make a profit? You might want to consider that the map geeks you're attempting to solicit either have resources to acquire maps for free or have already purchased the consumer-level software.

    Just my .02

    There is nothing wrong with asking for BETA testers or free opinion givers. After all, what is MTBR? Nothing but a collection of BETA testers and free opinion givers. You and I included.

    MTBR wants to make a profit and solicit user feedback, why shouldn't these guys? If there's a market for their product then more power to them.

  21. #21
    GPS_dr
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    Quote Originally Posted by AccuTerra
    The IT folks told me that the single-letter domain is tripping up the login, and they're looking into a fix.

    In regards to GPS -This product is actually derived from an available data set that was built to run on Magellan devices currently (Tritons & eXplorists), and will soon be launched on Bushnell and Lowrance GPS devices. As a comparison to the NG product, there are a couple of differentiators-

    Thanks for all the constructive feedback....

    Pabs- you can try logging back into the site (click the "Profile" link in the upper right) and re-download the packet.

    Oh, and if there's campgrounds that are incorrect, it's probably because the incorrect public data was provided from White River NF. We're striving for the most accurate recreational data possible; Our cartography team is actively ingests / cleans up / verifies / fixes old and new information on-the-fly; and some of those changes you'll see in subsequent data releases. Which of course is a huge job in itself - almost 300,000 square miles of National Forest and 130,000 square miles of National Parks, plus BLM, etc, etc; and our team examins trail data on a per-quad basis for accuracy. If we see a need to add data (for example, river put-ins and take-outs) and we can adequately verify the data, we can add that layer. If we know that a trail has been closed because it's lynx habitat, we can remove it from the database quickly. Maps like the USGS quads are basically images, which are expensive to render often....so they're rarely updated.
    Good to see someone is going to provide useful maps for Magellan, Bushnell & Lowrance.
    The latter two seem to have very limited mapping options. Will the software allow import of gpx files that can be passed on to the Bushnell - their software lacks this.
    BTW.
    Klines Folly, Supply Basin, Bison Lake campgrounds are all history - no facilities, There is one at White Owl Lake (for last 8 years at least.)
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martlet
    Mmmmmm! That's some good spam!
    It ain't spam til it costs money...
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  23. #23
    MK_
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    These maps lack any sort of useful information. I can see gates and names of some peaks, but I hardly see any trails. The insight of these maps is far inferior to say Lattitude 40. In addition, the maps look pretty useless unless you want to see the topography and learn that there are some gates around.

    _MK

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gps_dr
    Will the software allow import of gpx files that can be passed on to the Bushnell - their software lacks this.
    That's really more a function of their software rather than our data - as far as I know, the software running on the Onix hasn't yet been finalized for AccuTerra, so I can't comment on what the capabilities will be. I do know that GPX files can be imported onto AccuTerra for Magellan.

    Again- I appreciate the feedback. I'll be sending out a survey this evening to folks who've logged on and downloaded maps, so please check them out if you haven't already. Try to view them from the perspective of general outdoor maps rather than "cycling specific" when you take the survey. Think about how these might be valuable to, say, your neighbor that goes into the mountains once a month.

    WIN A MAGELLAN GPS. As I mentioned, we're going to randomly give away one Magellan Triton 2000, with AccuTerra for the entire US, to one of the survey participants. Given that there's likely only a few hundred people who've downloaded maps, the odds are decent you could win it. And yes, we will purge the email database after the test market so you won't get spammed, unless you specifically ask for more information.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    These maps lack any sort of useful information. I can see gates and names of some peaks, but I hardly see any trails. The insight of these maps is far inferior to say Lattitude 40. In addition, the maps look pretty useless unless you want to see the topography and learn that there are some gates around.

    _MK
    The dozen or so Latitude 40 Maps are great- I own about half of them. But they're also about $10 apiece, and customized to those limited areas. They're at higher scale, too - about 1:50,000 or 1:75,000. They've hand-rendered a few hundred or so 7.5' quads, which I'm sure took considerable time and investment. AccuTerra covers the entire state, with each map at a 1:24,000 scale, and when it's released nationally in the spring it will cover every quad in the US - literally 55,000 quads.

    If you wanted a custom trail map for a popular area like Moab, Latitude 40 might be the better choice (depending on budget, and at the current level of trail detail). But if you're exploring in the Flattops Wilderness, or you're bird hunting near Craig and you want to stay on public lands, Lat 40 can't help you because their maps don't cover that area. At a buck or two, the AccuTerra product might be very good option compared to a $8 quad map from REI that lacks the Land Boundaries and our POIs. I've attached an online Lat 40 / AccuTerra comparison image shots in Boulder County for the sake of the discussion; plus a screen capture of the same area from Nat Geo's $80 Colorado TOPO! software. Fairly low-res; I can't upload a 2MB file.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #26
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    It ain't spam til it costs money...

    I'll have to remember that next time I blurt out my band's "NO COVER CHARGE" gigs.


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