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  1. #1
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    Jefferson County Survey Results

    Been a lurker here for a while. Found this interesting.

    http://jeffco.us/jeffco/openspace_up...al_Report2.pdf

  2. #2
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    wow, i remember taking that survey too. Nice!
    Lets hope they do some good with that.
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  3. #3
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    Bike Free Trails seems to be right in the middle of what people place importance on - below ample parking and above Twitter...

  4. #4
    GL1
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    Thanks for posting...

    Thanks for posting this.

    I participated in this survey and others from the past several years. I've lived here in CO my entire life (34 years) and have worked for JCOS. I have seen the changes (especially recently) and I'm trying to get more involved as I'm concerned for the future of MTB on JCOS land...sort of.

    It is interesting. It shows to me a few things:

    First, that perhaps there is not really the level of conflict we often hear about.

    Second, it makes it look like MTB is a smaller segment of the overall population than it is. The reason for this is that they surveyed people at Crown Hill, Van Bibber and other completely urban and non-MTB sites. So I think this skewed the results a little for the system as a whole.

    Third, it does show there is strong support for biker-only trails. I myself am somewhat divided on this but I might be willing to give up some trail to hikers to have MTB-only routes. We will see. One thing that looked a bit neutral was the idea of hiker-only PARKS. We do have at least one of those and I am opposed to that personally. I think they did it at Mt. G because it's small and steep and not really great for MTB anyway. But still, not a good precedent to set. Well that and biker only days, and one-way's on certain days and......we better stay involved and make our voices heard.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GL1 View Post
    <snip> We do have at least one of those and I am opposed to that personally. I think they did it at Mt. G because it's small and steep and not really great for MTB anyway. But still, not a good precedent to set. Well that and biker only days, and one-way's on certain days and......we better stay involved and make our voices heard.
    There are at least TWO - Reynold's Park is closed to all biking.

  6. #6
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    I like how they alternate days on Centenial Cone - do they do this on any other trails?

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    I think they stacked the deck... "Hiking/Walking" and "Hiking/Walking with Dog"?

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    Hey Skiahh - what's Team Navy Cycling about? Do the let retired jarheads ride?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahtboy View Post
    I like how they alternate days on Centenial Cone - do they do this on any other trails?
    Parks of Apex Park are. You can't ride down Enchanted Forest on odd calendar days for example.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAMCRO View Post
    Parks of Apex Park are. You can't ride down Enchanted Forest on odd calendar days for example.
    Apex is not the same as Centennial.
    Centennial is even/odd on weekends, hiker/bikes alternate days.
    Apex is directional for bikers on odd days with no restrictions on hikers on any day.

  11. #11
    Salida, CO
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    Sorry, by "alternate" I was assuming he meant mtn bikers.

  12. #12
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    Does Jeffco list trail restrictions on a website?

  13. #13
    Salida, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by GL1 View Post
    Thanks for posting this.

    I participated in this survey and others from the past several years. I've lived here in CO my entire life (34 years) and have worked for JCOS. I have seen the changes (especially recently) and I'm trying to get more involved as I'm concerned for the future of MTB on JCOS land...sort of.

    It is interesting. It shows to me a few things:

    First, that perhaps there is not really the level of conflict we often hear about.

    Second, it makes it look like MTB is a smaller segment of the overall population than it is. The reason for this is that they surveyed people at Crown Hill, Van Bibber and other completely urban and non-MTB sites. So I think this skewed the results a little for the system as a whole.

    Third, it does show there is strong support for biker-only trails. I myself am somewhat divided on this but I might be willing to give up some trail to hikers to have MTB-only routes. We will see. One thing that looked a bit neutral was the idea of hiker-only PARKS. We do have at least one of those and I am opposed to that personally. I think they did it at Mt. G because it's small and steep and not really great for MTB anyway. But still, not a good precedent to set. Well that and biker only days, and one-way's on certain days and......we better stay involved and make our voices heard.
    Actually, the survey was mailed to random Jeffco residents, and an open survey was conducted online. It did not take place in any specific park and it was a survey about the Open Space system as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermos View Post
    Actually, the survey was mailed to random Jeffco residents, and an open survey was conducted online. It did not take place in any specific park and it was a survey about the Open Space system as a whole.
    ...which I think explains the fairly large number of respondents who visit open space 0-5 times per year. I don't doubt that is useful for JCOS to hear from non-users, but it would be interesting to know how some of the results would vary based on responses from frequent users.

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    Here you go, lurker. My 2 cents.

    On p.8 with the Open Space Usage table.
    First off I question randomly mailing out surveys as that seems to skew the
    results in regards to park facilities and user conflicts. Why do I say that?
    Because when you look at the Open Space Usage table p.8, 60% of the
    respondants visited a JCOS property 0-10x per year.

    Does that really qualify someone to be giving responses to some of the
    questions in the survey in regards to facilities and user conflicts like
    hiker-only trails? i don't know. But it definitely makes me take some of the
    responses with a grain of salt.

    I think most of us who ride can attest to the fact that MTBR's probably use
    OS parks 51x or more per year, @ 9% of respondants p.8, which happens
    to coincide with the 10% who consider MTB riding their primary activity in
    JCOS parks on p.13. I think a case can be made that even though MTB's
    may represent a smaller number of overall users, we are the most
    frequent/consistent users of the OS parks.

    I would like to have seen a breakdown of user groups within the Open
    Space Usage table on p.8. i.e. Of the people who say they visit 51x or
    more, how many consider MTB/hiking/equest as their primary use?

    Reasons Not Used, p.9. Skip this one, it doesn't pertain to us.

    Most Frequent Park, p.10. No surprises here. Crown Hill is a major seniors
    gathering spot. Centennial @ 1%, woohoo! Let's keep it that way! Just say
    "no" to more parking.

    Activities, p.12. Multiple answer question. Can be very misleading when
    reading the results. If you combine MTB and Bicycling you come up with
    50%, which is higher than hiking/hiking with dogs @46%. I think
    scenery/wildlife viewing answers are a given.


    Most Frequent Activity
    Mountain Biking @ 10% was separate from Biking @ 4% in the "Most
    Frequent Activity" table, p.11. Again, I don't understand the reason for
    seperating these 2 activities? Bike riding should be listed as @ 14% IMHO.

    Rating Elements of Parks, p.13. I didn't know there are hiker-free, or dog
    free, trails in JCOS? I don't get this table? Facebook? Twitter? trail
    maps?


    Importance of Park Elements, p.16. Again, a little deceptive as more than
    one answer can be given. Restrooms are #1 on every survey I've ever
    seen. Bike-free trails @ 55%, hiker-free @ 29% and dog-free @ 30%. So 1
    out of 3 people would like to see hiker/dog-free trails. That's a message
    that needs to be emphasized when speaking to our OS departments. User
    groups want their own trails. Perhaps the time has come?


    Open Space Benefits, p.17. Outdoor recreation at 95%. Very important
    point. Providing more places for outdoor recreation as opposed to
    conservation easements or wilderness designations without public access or
    restrictions on recreation is important to people. People want places to play
    outside.

    Greatest Value, p.18/19
    Outdoor Recreation @ 46~49% greatest single benefit. Wildlife @ 14%. I
    think that says a lot.

    Level of Support/Trail Mgmt Strategies, p.21.
    Designating singlue use type of trail @ 58%. Opposition to user specific
    days, i.e Centennial Cone. Single use parks @ 17% for, 53% against. It
    would be interesting to see the user group breakdown on that one. Oh wait
    they did.

    p.23. Overwhelmingly, hikers want hiker-only trails and hiker-only parks. No
    surprise there. Yeah, take my money. Please. Not.

    The question I have to ask is... if the hikers hate the bikers so much,,,
    wouldn't it be easier to designate a few biker-only parks and biker-only
    trails to reduce the conflicts on multi-use trails? Rather than creating many
    hiker-only trails to satisfy the hikers.

    We're only 10% of the overall park users according to the survey. There's
    fewer of us. We just need a couple of bike-only parks... in every county of
    course. with multi-use trail links to each one.

    Desired Emphasis, p.24.
    I thought this was more of a how politically correct are you today question.

    Hours of Operation, p.25.
    The difference between the mailing list vs. Internet responses is apparent.
    Your random JeffCo resident knows very little about their OS, but they can
    probably tell you all about how to Tebow.

    Situational Influence, p.27.
    There's some really uptight people out on the trail and it looks like trail
    congestion is the issue? Time to build more trails JCOS.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Here you go, lurker. My 2 cents.

    On p.8 with the Open Space Usage table.
    First off I question randomly mailing out surveys as that seems to skew the
    results in regards to park facilities and user conflicts. Why do I say that?
    Because when you look at the Open Space Usage table p.8, 60% of the
    respondants visited a JCOS property 0-10x per year.

    Does that really qualify someone to be giving responses to some of the
    questions in the survey in regards to facilities and user conflicts like
    hiker-only trails? i don't know. But it definitely makes me take some of the
    responses with a grain of salt.

    I think most of us who ride can attest to the fact that MTBR's probably use
    OS parks 51x or more per year, @ 9% of respondants p.8, which happens
    to coincide with the 10% who consider MTB riding their primary activity in
    JCOS parks on p.13. I think a case can be made that even though MTB's
    may represent a smaller number of overall users, we are the most
    frequent/consistent users of the OS parks.

    I would like to have seen a breakdown of user groups within the Open
    Space Usage table on p.8. i.e. Of the people who say they visit 51x or
    more, how many consider MTB/hiking/equest as their primary use?

    Reasons Not Used, p.9. Skip this one, it doesn't pertain to us.

    Most Frequent Park, p.10. No surprises here. Crown Hill is a major seniors
    gathering spot. Centennial @ 1%, woohoo! Let's keep it that way! Just say
    "no" to more parking.

    Activities, p.12. Multiple answer question. Can be very misleading when
    reading the results. If you combine MTB and Bicycling you come up with
    50%, which is higher than hiking/hiking with dogs @46%. I think
    scenery/wildlife viewing answers are a given.


    Most Frequent Activity
    Mountain Biking @ 10% was separate from Biking @ 4% in the "Most
    Frequent Activity" table, p.11. Again, I don't understand the reason for
    seperating these 2 activities? Bike riding should be listed as @ 14% IMHO.

    Rating Elements of Parks, p.13. I didn't know there are hiker-free, or dog
    free, trails in JCOS? I don't get this table? Facebook? Twitter? trail
    maps?


    Importance of Park Elements, p.16. Again, a little deceptive as more than
    one answer can be given. Restrooms are #1 on every survey I've ever
    seen. Bike-free trails @ 55%, hiker-free @ 29% and dog-free @ 30%. So 1
    out of 3 people would like to see hiker/dog-free trails. That's a message
    that needs to be emphasized when speaking to our OS departments. User
    groups want their own trails. Perhaps the time has come?


    Open Space Benefits, p.17. Outdoor recreation at 95%. Very important
    point. Providing more places for outdoor recreation as opposed to
    conservation easements or wilderness designations without public access or
    restrictions on recreation is important to people. People want places to play
    outside.

    Greatest Value, p.18/19
    Outdoor Recreation @ 46~49% greatest single benefit. Wildlife @ 14%. I
    think that says a lot.

    Level of Support/Trail Mgmt Strategies, p.21.
    Designating singlue use type of trail @ 58%. Opposition to user specific
    days, i.e Centennial Cone. Single use parks @ 17% for, 53% against. It
    would be interesting to see the user group breakdown on that one. Oh wait
    they did.

    p.23. Overwhelmingly, hikers want hiker-only trails and hiker-only parks. No
    surprise there. Yeah, take my money. Please. Not.

    The question I have to ask is... if the hikers hate the bikers so much,,,
    wouldn't it be easier to designate a few biker-only parks and biker-only
    trails to reduce the conflicts on multi-use trails? Rather than creating many
    hiker-only trails to satisfy the hikers.

    We're only 10% of the overall park users according to the survey. There's
    fewer of us. We just need a couple of bike-only parks... in every county of
    course. with multi-use trail links to each one.

    Desired Emphasis, p.24.
    I thought this was more of a how politically correct are you today question.

    Hours of Operation, p.25.
    The difference between the mailing list vs. Internet responses is apparent.
    Your random JeffCo resident knows very little about their OS, but they can
    probably tell you all about how to Tebow.

    Situational Influence, p.27.
    There's some really uptight people out on the trail and it looks like trail
    congestion is the issue? Time to build more trails JCOS.
    Wow! You have so many questions. Where to begin? The random mailing is legitimate because the survey was done to find out what Jeffco residents think about Open Space, not just frequent park visitors. Mountain Biking was separated from bicycling because of trails like the Clear Creek Trail, Pioneer Trail, and others that are paved and used by roadies who are not necessarily mountain bikers...

    Give Open Space a call, it's not the CIA, they're happy to answer questions.

  18. #18
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Here you go, lurker. My 2 cents.

    On p.8 with the Open Space Usage table.
    First off I question randomly mailing out surveys as that seems to skew the
    results in regards to park facilities and user conflicts. Why do I say that?
    Because when you look at the Open Space Usage table p.8, 60% of the
    respondants visited a JCOS property 0-10x per year.

    Does that really qualify someone to be giving responses to some of the
    questions in the survey in regards to facilities and user conflicts like
    hiker-only trails? i don't know. But it definitely makes me take some of the
    responses with a grain of salt.

    I think most of us who ride can attest to the fact that MTBR's probably use
    OS parks 51x or more per year, @ 9% of respondants p.8, which happens
    to coincide with the 10% who consider MTB riding their primary activity in
    JCOS parks on p.13. I think a case can be made that even though MTB's
    may represent a smaller number of overall users, we are the most
    frequent/consistent users of the OS parks.

    I would like to have seen a breakdown of user groups within the Open
    Space Usage table on p.8. i.e. Of the people who say they visit 51x or
    more, how many consider MTB/hiking/equest as their primary use?

    Reasons Not Used, p.9. Skip this one, it doesn't pertain to us.

    Most Frequent Park, p.10. No surprises here. Crown Hill is a major seniors
    gathering spot. Centennial @ 1%, woohoo! Let's keep it that way! Just say
    "no" to more parking.

    Activities, p.12. Multiple answer question. Can be very misleading when
    reading the results. If you combine MTB and Bicycling you come up with
    50%, which is higher than hiking/hiking with dogs @46%. I think
    scenery/wildlife viewing answers are a given.


    Most Frequent Activity
    Mountain Biking @ 10% was separate from Biking @ 4% in the "Most
    Frequent Activity" table, p.11. Again, I don't understand the reason for
    seperating these 2 activities? Bike riding should be listed as @ 14% IMHO.

    Rating Elements of Parks, p.13. I didn't know there are hiker-free, or dog
    free, trails in JCOS? I don't get this table? Facebook? Twitter? trail
    maps?


    Importance of Park Elements, p.16. Again, a little deceptive as more than
    one answer can be given. Restrooms are #1 on every survey I've ever
    seen. Bike-free trails @ 55%, hiker-free @ 29% and dog-free @ 30%. So 1
    out of 3 people would like to see hiker/dog-free trails. That's a message
    that needs to be emphasized when speaking to our OS departments. User
    groups want their own trails. Perhaps the time has come?


    Open Space Benefits, p.17. Outdoor recreation at 95%. Very important
    point. Providing more places for outdoor recreation as opposed to
    conservation easements or wilderness designations without public access or
    restrictions on recreation is important to people. People want places to play
    outside.

    Greatest Value, p.18/19
    Outdoor Recreation @ 46~49% greatest single benefit. Wildlife @ 14%. I
    think that says a lot.

    Level of Support/Trail Mgmt Strategies, p.21.
    Designating singlue use type of trail @ 58%. Opposition to user specific
    days, i.e Centennial Cone. Single use parks @ 17% for, 53% against. It
    would be interesting to see the user group breakdown on that one. Oh wait
    they did.

    p.23. Overwhelmingly, hikers want hiker-only trails and hiker-only parks. No
    surprise there. Yeah, take my money. Please. Not.

    The question I have to ask is... if the hikers hate the bikers so much,,,
    wouldn't it be easier to designate a few biker-only parks and biker-only
    trails to reduce the conflicts on multi-use trails? Rather than creating many
    hiker-only trails to satisfy the hikers.

    We're only 10% of the overall park users according to the survey. There's
    fewer of us. We just need a couple of bike-only parks... in every county of
    course. with multi-use trail links to each one.

    Desired Emphasis, p.24.
    I thought this was more of a how politically correct are you today question.

    Hours of Operation, p.25.
    The difference between the mailing list vs. Internet responses is apparent.
    Your random JeffCo resident knows very little about their OS, but they can
    probably tell you all about how to Tebow.

    Situational Influence, p.27.
    There's some really uptight people out on the trail and it looks like trail
    congestion is the issue? Time to build more trails JCOS.
    So in other words the results that fit your view and priorities are spot on and those that don't aren't

  19. #19
    It's time for a road trip
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    What exactly is the point of finding out what people who don't use the parks think of them? Do they buy cars based on reviews written by people who've never driven them?
    Last edited by SecretAgent23skidoo; 02-24-2012 at 03:03 PM.

  20. #20
    GL1
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermos View Post
    Actually, the survey was mailed to random Jeffco residents, and an open survey was conducted online. It did not take place in any specific park and it was a survey about the Open Space system as a whole.
    Okay I didn't see that. So it was both random and selective for those of us that went online. Good to know. I had assumed they had shown up also at parks and trailheads as they had in previous years. I see now that wasn't the case this last year.

    So that's interesting. I guess that does explain the high volume at Crown Hill and Van Bibber. Those are two "walking" spots that most residents know about and frequent. They are JCOS land but not exactly in the same the category and with the same offerings as say White Ranch. So that is interesting to have this disparity in the overall results. I'm not sure it's very helpful if the scope is that wide.

    Oh, and yes as someone mentioned...Reynolds is hiker only. I had forgotten that. I rode there in high school...circa 1995. It was decent. Not a lot of miles but decent. Bummer to lose that one to MTB though...
    My most brilliant achievement was my ability to pursuade my wife to marry me. - Churchill

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    So in other words the results that fit your view and priorities are spot on and those that don't aren't
    Ha Ha! Nice dig.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent23skidoo View Post
    What exactly is the point of finding out what people who don't use the parks think of them? Do they buy cars based on reviews written by people who've never driven them?
    Did you take the survey? A lot of questions were of the variety of "if no, skip to #x..." type of thing. It was conducted by an outside firm, and given the task, I thought it was pretty well done. They seem to have accounted for those who were not really park users, and those who had a single agenda (answered one question and left the rest blank).

  23. #23
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    Children's park usage - Apex? Would this be because of parents shuttling their kids? I have not seen many younger riders ever on Apex.


    ***

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GL1 View Post

    Oh, and yes as someone mentioned...Reynolds is hiker only. I had forgotten that. I rode there in high school...circa 1995. It was decent. Not a lot of miles but decent. Bummer to lose that one to MTB though...
    We might be getting part of Reynolds opened up to bikes in a few years. JCOS had plans for a trail from Reynolds to the Colorado Trail, which would allow a ride from Waterton to Reynolds. Sound cool? That was scheduled to be completed soon but was back-burnered after the Apex Crowd stormed the OSAC meetings (reallocation of resources). Last projection I heard was 5 years.

  25. #25
    GL1
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermos View Post
    We might be getting part of Reynolds opened up to bikes in a few years. JCOS had plans for a trail from Reynolds to the Colorado Trail, which would allow a ride from Waterton to Reynolds. Sound cool? That was scheduled to be completed soon but was back-burnered after the Apex Crowd stormed the OSAC meetings (reallocation of resources). Last projection I heard was 5 years.
    Heck yeah, I'd go for that! Like I said it was circa '95 when I rode it last on my anodized zaskar. It was "legal" then to do so. So that's good news anyway...to get part of it back. I remember it being cool...A3S like.
    My most brilliant achievement was my ability to pursuade my wife to marry me. - Churchill

  26. #26
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    Wink stormtrooper

    Quote Originally Posted by thermos View Post
    That was scheduled to be completed soon but was back-burnered after the Apex Crowd stormed the OSAC meetings
    thermos, based on this and other posts, you've apparently got an inside line to JCOS...

    ...and seeing how you obviously disagree w/ previous efforts of the MTB community to engage the powers-that-be, perhaps you should become involved w/ COMBA and lead the way to better relations? granted, it's not as easy as just posting anonymous threads on MTBR, but it can be way more productive.

    just sayin'.
    -
    .And following our will and wind . . .
    . . .We'll ride the spiral to the end
    and may just go where no one's been.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermos View Post
    Ha Ha! Nice dig.
    Shouldn't you be out playing with your taser?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Shouldn't you be out playing with your taser?
    Ha HA! Another nice one! If I ever get a Taser I'll Certainly invite you out to "Play". Did you call anyone at JCOS yet?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt View Post
    thermos, based on this and other posts, you've apparently got an inside line to JCOS...

    ...and seeing how you obviously disagree w/ previous efforts of the MTB community to engage the powers-that-be, perhaps you should become involved w/ COMBA and lead the way to better relations? granted, it's not as easy as just posting anonymous threads on MTBR, but it can be way more productive.

    just sayin'.
    I do engage the "powers-that-be," just not with pitchfork in hand. That's how I get information. I have heard that there is new leadership in COMBA and that they have invited JCOS and other agencies to work with them. I could see getting involved with a group with that kind of mind set. However, several young priorities currently take up all my spare time. Perhaps in the future... Are you involved with COMBA?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermos View Post
    Did you call anyone at JCOS yet?
    Why would I ask the government to tell me what to think?
    I was hoping to have a discussion with my peers.

    You do realize I was an OS Planner at JCOS for a brief time, during the Apex
    thingy you spoke of? I was there at the meetings too.

    And yes of course, as zrm knows very well, we all have out own agenda.
    I can't deny it. Yes I have an agenda. Public access, accountability and
    less discrimination against outdoor recreation. I don't have anything to hide.
    I just want to be treated equally.

  31. #31
    Thread Terrorist
    Reputation: IndecentExposure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahtboy View Post
    I like how they alternate days on Centenial Cone - do they do this on any other trails?
    We need to abolish this non-sense. For one, it crowds mtn bikers on one day only. Two, about 4 hikers are on it when it is their day. three, Hikers usually only go the first 2 miles in any given park. Four, with the low use of hikers, why not have Bikers on both days of the weekend?

    BTW, biking on hiker days is bliss. I've been hit twice with riders and blind corners during biking only days.
    Golden Bike Park Group

    Peak Cycles Gravity Team & Bikeparts.com
    Trestle Bike Park

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