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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! High Park Fire

    denverpost.com : High Park Fire in Larimer County grows from 50 acres to 200 in half hour

    Fast growing fire west of Loveland and Ft. Collins.

    From Estes it looks like a giant thundercloud building to the north.

    I hope everyone stays safe and this is under control as soon as possible.

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    Looks pretty bad from East of FC too. Best wishes to anybody affected and those involved with the fire fighting

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    I was up on Springbrook, doing the usual. I got to the big meadow, turned around to get a pic of some riders coming through and WTF? Another fire? Why not. Hottest day of the year, like clockwork A New Fire! Lightning, downed power line, human caused...who knows at this point.

    The first pic is early on. By the time I got home it had exploded in size.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-20-2012 at 04:56 AM.
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    looked big from chief mtn today
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me! View Post
    looked big from chief mtn today
    bumpin some Warren G, eh
    nice
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

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    Looks like a mushroom cloud from FoCo... 2000+ acres already

    InciWeb the Incident Information System: High Park Fire

  7. #7
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    0% contained, 5-6 miles north of Bobcat Ridge, lots of artillery on it, flyin over all day.

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    View looking out the backdoor of the shop. Jealous of you fellows who got to snap your pictures while on a ride rather than at work


    Last edited by DanD; 06-09-2012 at 06:21 PM.

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    Gee, another fire in Colorado.



    Really? Who gives a flying f!ck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenbikesnob View Post
    Gee, another fire in Colorado.



    Really? Who gives a flying f!ck?
    I ride those trails that are burning, so ya, I care. Even if it weren't for my personal attachment to the place, fire is a pretty fascinating phenomenon.

    EDIT: Being concerned for the trails is a bit petty I realize. My best thoughts go out to everyone living up there who has lost their home or are at risk of it.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=DanD;9394688]I ride those trails that are burning, so ya, I care. Even if it weren't for my personal attachment to the place, fire is a pretty fascinating phenomenon.

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    [QUOTE=MarketingMTB;9394727]
    Quote Originally Posted by DanD View Post
    I ride those trails that are burning, so ya, I care. Even if it weren't for my personal attachment to the place, fire is a pretty fascinating phenomenon.
    Fire is a normal phenomenon in Colorado.

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    [QUOTE=MarketingMTB;9394741]
    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingMTB View Post

    Fire is a normal phenomenon in Colorado.
    I'm not claiming that it isn't. It's something that I think is interesting and I'm glad there are other people on this site that brought up discussion about it, especially as it's relevant because I'm curious how the trails in that area will be effected.

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    [QUOTE=MarketingMTB;9394741]
    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingMTB View Post

    Fire is a normal phenomenon in Colorado.
    Mountain biking is a normal phenomenon in Colorado.

    Shut the whole site down.

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    Winds have picked up and it keeps growing towards the east.
    Hoping they can get a hold on this before it continues to burn into more populated areas.

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    I nabbed a few shots of the sunset and the fire tonight. Flames are now visible from rotary park. Hopefully someone with better camera skills than my self was able to capture what I saw, OBD, you out there? Until then, here's what I got:

    At times during the sunset, the smoke entirely blocked out the sun.


    This one was taken from rotary park, 1 mile from my apartment as the crow flies. I estimate the fire is ~6 miles from my door. Luckily there's a lake in the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD View Post
    I nabbed a few shots of the sunset and the fire tonight. Flames are now visible from rotary park. Hopefully someone with better camera skills than my self was able to capture what I saw, OBD, you out there? Until then, here's what I got:

    At times during the sunset, the smoke entirely blocked out the sun.


    This one was taken from rotary park, 1 mile from my apartment as the crow flies. I estimate the fire is ~6 miles from my door. Luckily there's a lake in the way.
    I took some crappy cell phone pics of it that aren't really worth uploading. I didn't know there was another fire and went and rode pineridge and maxwell this evening, admiring how crazy the "clouds" looked during sunset. Got to the top of Maxwell and got the whole story. There was also a decent size crowd of people in the parking lot up top, taking photos and observing. Live on the westside of town, smells pretty strong now but the wind appears to have died down.

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    6am Sunday sunrise

    Don't smell any smoke here in Westminster.

    edit: wind just shifted. Yup, smoke in the air.

    From Larimer County Emergency:

    5:55 AM - Jun 10

    474 evacuation notices for the High Park Fire have been sent to residents in areas south and west of Bellvue to include the Lory State Park area, the Redstone Canyon area and Buckhorn Road up to the Stove Prairie School. Residents in this evacuation area need to evacuate to the McKee building on The Ranch property at I25 and Crossroads Blvd. Use the south entrance and park in the first gravel lot. Officals with the Red Cross will be there.

    150 evacuation notices have been sent to residents from CR27E to Bellvue for the High Park Fire.
    This follows the 177 notifications sent last night for Poudre Canyon from MM111 to MM118 on Highway 14. The entire Poudre Canyon from Stove Prairie Road to Ted's Place at Highway 287 is under mandatory evacuation.

    Highway 14 is closed from Ted's Place to Stove Prairie Road. Visitors should avoid this area.

    Evacuation center is Cache La Poudre Middle School in Laporte.

    Large animals and livestock can be taken to the Ranch at I-25 & Crossroads Blvd. Smaller animals and pets may be taken to Larimer Humane Society.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-20-2012 at 04:53 AM.
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    There is ash all over my car and around my house this morning here in old town Fort Collins.

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    Probably a dumb question, but it wouldnt be smart to go riding anywhere in the fort collins area right now, due to all the smoke you'd be breathing in. Would everyone agree on that?

  21. #21
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    Probably right, not the best idea to inhale all that smoke if you don't have to.

  22. #22
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    My son lives in north Loveland and we have shared many great rides Bobcat, Hewletts, Lory, Maxwell and Backbone. My thoughts go out to folks out there in the fire zone.

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    I had planned an early morning ride from home to HTMP, North to Lory, East to Shoreline and Maxwell and then home. I walked outside around 6am and the smoke was pretty thick and saw some ash in the air so I figured it wouldn't be good for the lungs. Plus I think Lory might be shutdown and HTMP could be as well for all I know.

    It would have been a nice ride with the great cool weather.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandy View Post
    fire is a pretty fascinating phenomenon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Furrydogs View Post
    I had planned an early morning ride from home to HTMP, North to Lory, East to Shoreline and Maxwell and then home. I walked outside around 6am and the smoke was pretty thick and saw some ash in the air so I figured it wouldn't be good for the lungs. Plus I think Lory might be shutdown and HTMP could be as well for all I know.

    It would have been a nice ride with the great cool weather.
    I think the Backbone should be fine without smoke. The wind is coming from the SW so the smoke in theory shouldn't make it's way there. That's where I'm heading. I hit the Good Guys car show yesterday at the Ranch. It was a good time although $18 is a bit steep for admission. I figure a ride today will make for a good weekend. My thoughts and prayers go out to those effected by this fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  26. #26
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    We were evacuated this morning from North of Masonville via reverse 911 call and Fire Marshall. The parking lot was closed at HTMP as we drove by about 6:30am

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    This really sucks, and it's only June. You guys be safe up there.

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    Not sure how, but even with the winds out of the south, we've got a strong smell of fire down here in the Springs. Unless we're smelling the AZ fires....

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Not sure how, but even with the winds out of the south, we've got a strong smell of fire down here in the Springs. Unless we're smelling the AZ fires....
    From where I'm at it looks like a little of the smoke is sticking around right at the base of the foothills and even moving south along them

  30. #30
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    Looks like the top of Young's burned. That's a big GD fire. Be safe out there.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

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    Just got back from riding Backbone to Indian Summer and back. Smoke wasn't noticeable at first, but definitely felt it by the end of the ride. Still a good ride, great weather this morning.

    Drove back to the Fort via Masonville, and HTMP was closed when we drove by. That was our original plan this morning. Glad we stayed away. Even if it was open, it looked to be a cloud of smoke over the park

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpramick View Post
    Just got back from riding Backbone to Indian Summer and back. Smoke wasn't noticeable at first, but definitely felt it by the end of the ride. Still a good ride, great weather this morning.

    Drove back to the Fort via Masonville, and HTMP was closed when we drove by. That was our original plan this morning. Glad we stayed away. Even if it was open, it looked to be a cloud of smoke over the park
    Thanks for the ride report. I was planning a 4:00 pm ride at the Backbone. But it's not worth it to me to be inhaling that crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  33. #33
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    11:33 AM - Jun 10

    High Park Fire is now at 14,000 acres with 0% contained.

    Residents on County Road 29C and McMurray Ranch Road are being asked to prepare for a possible evacuation. This is not an actual evacuation, however, if fire conditions worsen, they may be told to evacuate. 33 notifications sent.

    Containment goals for today include attempting to contain fire within the following boundaries:

    North of Buckhorn Road
    East of Pingree Park Road
    South of Highway 14
    West of Boyd Gulch/Redstone Canyon

    Highway 14 has road blocks at

    Rustic (residents only)
    Walden (gate is closed)
    Stove Prairie (no access)
    Ted's Place (residents only if they live below MM118).
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    4:44 PM - Jun 10

    An evacuation order has been issued for the area North of County Road 38E, from Horsetooth Reservoir to Redstone Canyon to Lory State park. 326 emergency notifications were sent.

    An evacuation shelter has been set up at Cache La Poudre Middle School, large animals and livestock can be taken to the Ranch at I25/Crossroads, and small domestic animals can be taken to the Larimer County Humane Society.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

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    My wife and I went for a short road ride around 3:00 from the central Fort Collins. The wind really kicked up while we were out and the smoke plume north of down got darker and started expanding toward the south. They've really got a tough battle with this one.

    Been watching twitter--latest word is that it jumped across the Poudre Canyon Hwy.

    They're now evacuating all of the HTMP area north of 38E between the reservoir and redstone canyon. Also Bonner Peaks up near Livermore and Crystal Mountain up near where the fire started.

  36. #36
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    This is ugly. The best official info I can find is from the Larimer Sheriff's office and posted here:
    Larimer County Emergency Information
    It looks like they will have a level 1 fire team (the top category) on the fire by tomorrow.

    I was going to tune into KUNC for more, but they are off the air as the fire is threatening the transmitter site. The web coverage looks good, though: KUNC | Community Radio for Northern Colorado

    This reminds me too much, coincidentally, of coming back from Estes and seeing the plume for the 4-Mile fire a couple summers back. The Heyman fire anniversary has also been in the news a lot.

    Keep safe, everyone.

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    5:28 PM - Jun 10

    An evacuation order has been issued for the Crystal Mountain area including Crystal Mountain Road and the Upper Buckhorn. The burning pattern of the High Park Fire could potentially cut off exit routes for residents in this area and they should leave now while the roads are still passable. 24 notifications were sent.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  39. #39
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    7:51 PM - Jun 10

    An evacuation order has been sent to residents south of CR38E on the south side of Horsetooth. This evacuation order has been issued for the area south of County Road 38E from Gindler Ranch Road west to Milner Ranch Road. The High Park Fire is moving rapidly in this direction (325 Notifications were sent).

    This evacuation includes the Canyon Grill where many of us meet after local rides. The neighborhood behind the restaurant / above the Blue Sky trail head and the neighborhood across from the HTMP upper lot is also included in this evacuation. This is hitting close to home with the homes of several friends and my daughters' classmates included this time.

  40. #40
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    According the news conference that just ended, it's now 20,000 acres, 0% contained. Sheriff says it's pushing north, east and south.

  41. #41
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    It's impossible to tell how huge this thing is from my house in town, so I snapped these pics today on my way back from a job out east.

    I was wondering if Ft. Collins was even going to be there when I got back.







    Last edited by onbelaydave; 06-10-2012 at 09:24 PM.

  42. #42
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    Looks like it is going to be a long night. I hope everybody stays safe.

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    Be safe everyone.

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    I wish the best for everyone up there !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave View Post
    It's impossible to tell how huge this thing is from my house in town, but I snapped these pics today on my way back from a job out east.

    I was wondering if Ft. Collins was even going to be there when I got back.







    I was wondering when you'd show up! You always have some beautiful shots, except this time you really captured the ugly.

    "I was wondering if Ft. Collins was even going to be there when I got back." - if we didn't have that gigantic body of water hovering above us 24/7 I'd be starting to worry too. Like sgltrak said, this is getting too close to home. Wishing everyone who was evacuated and the firefighters the best, this is getting crazy.

    I was looking today at the relationship of the smoke cloud to Horsetooth Mountain and thought "no, it can't have grown that big." This thing is definitely moving in all directions. I'm off of Overland and there may as well be a wood burning stove in my bedroom.
    Last edited by Da Dook; 06-10-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  46. #46
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    Scary stuff, best of luck to the firefighters and residents.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by llama View Post
    According the news conference that just ended, it's now 20,000 acres, 0% contained. Sheriff says it's pushing north, east and south.
    But it doesn't give a lot of confidence when "The Gov" says there's 1/3rd of the entire US Heavy Firefighting Equipment working the scene and then hear the Sheriff say " There's no hope of containment, Mother Nature's in the drivers seat and all we can do is try to get people out of her way"

  48. #48
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    This evenings view from my house, and to make this even scarier for the photo savvy, these are shot with my 12-24 lens at 12mm, as wide angle as I can go.




    And like you, I've had to seal all my widows against the wind. This was taken just as the smoke moved in this evening.


  49. #49
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    I'm out on the west end of mulberry almost to overland. This thing is scary I am just waiting for the cops to bang on my door and tell me it get out. I road the motorcycle to work tonight and the ash was so thick on my visor by the time I got in to town I could hardly see out of it. After watching it blowup from bingom hill last night Fort Collins could be in real danger.

  50. #50
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    Now 37,000 acres and growing. More evacuation notices. Someone above linked us to the InciWeb website and here it is again. Updated just a few minutes ago.

    InciWeb the Incident Information System: High Park Fire

    I think this link gets overwhelmed with hits because it's periodically unavailable.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-11-2012 at 07:05 AM.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    I'm out on the west end of mulberry almost to overland. This thing is scary I am just waiting for the cops to bang on my door and tell me it get out. I road the motorcycle to work tonight and the ash was so thick on my visor by the time I got in to town I could hardly see out of it. After watching it blowup from bingom hill last night Fort Collins could be in real danger.
    We stayed with friends in this area last night and i was thinkin the same thing. smoke was thick. Scary close to Fort Collins. Heard some emergency chatter last night on scannet about fire in HTMP.

  52. #52
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    SW FtC sunset

    I live in the neighborhood SW of JJ's there at Taft/Harmony. The road this morning was blocked by a white unmarked Suburban heading west, with a full road block 1/3 mile further west by the Fox Hills neighborhood.

    Looks like the feds are here now. I saw 20-30 F-350's loaded and rolling south down Taft, so some reinforcement is here it appears.

    Here are some pics I took last night. It's surreal. We have friends that live 200 yards from the Lory entrance that thankfully had some time to pack, but to think 16 hours earlier Saturday morning we were doing trail work and had a Niner demo at Lory seems crazy to me.

    Brett
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-img_2996.jpg  

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    High Park Fire-img_3007.jpg  

    High Park Fire-img_3038.jpg  

    High Park Fire-img_3039.jpg  

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  53. #53
    heaven help me
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    Wow sounds like it is getting close to town. Pretty scary.

  54. #54
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    Bad news...it's burning in Lory for sure now. You can see smoke on the east side hill between the neighborhood and Timber.
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    Holy crap. Either the winds shifted or the fire has picked up. Now I can barely see the foot hills from my office in Lakewood near Golden. It wasn't this bad a couple hours ago.

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    I just saw the burn map on the Larimer page and it's right on the edge of the foothills. Crap!

    I just went to the Broomfield airport to get some shots of the air tankers but they were all out.
    The wind was howling from the south. That would mean it was smoke free here because it was blowing the High Park smoke to the north, right?

    Well, it's pouring smoke up from the south, probably from New Mexico (the Gila fire is something like 280,000 acres) or some new one close by. Who knows, but it's ugly out there.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  58. #58
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    Inciweb perimeter map is grossly obsolete. Here is the latest I have found: https://blackicegeospatial.com/image...k_20120611.jpg. Where active, the fire boundary is growing at a rate of 40 feet per minute with crowns up to 300 feet.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  59. #59
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    Southernmost smoke appears to be burning on the Timber Trail in Lory State Park.

    Photo from MTBR user Pulser
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-lory.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Southernmost smoke appears to be burning on the Timber Trail in Lory State Park.

    Photo from MTBR user Pulser
    Damn! Sad day!

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    Frack. here's a pic a coworking just took from his house off overland
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-burn.jpg  


  62. #62
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    Once the fire crests the foothills and starts down, don't the trees clear out and it's just grass at that point? Meaning, maybe easier to drop a couple of loads of flame retardant in a line to stop the grass fire or am I dreaming?
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    In case this hasn't been posted yet. You can use the link below to sign up for emergency notifications via phone, text, email etc.

    Larimer Emergency Telephone Authority

  64. #64
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    Sort of a moot point in this area. There's only about a half mile of grassland til it reaches the reservoir. But the upper mountains in Lory and HTMP have so much fuel to burn it's likely to all be toast by tomorrow. With no structures to protect in between, I think they're building fire lines on N and S ends of the parks. Larimer County did do a lot of mitigation in HTMP the past 2 years to clear beetle kill. Unfortunately, we'll probably get to see how effective that was.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    Sort of a moot point in this area. There's only about a half mile of grassland til it reaches the reservoir. But the upper mountains in Lory and HTMP have so much fuel to burn it's likely to all be toast by tomorrow. With no structures to protect in between, I think they're building fire lines on N and S ends of the parks. Larimer County did do a lot of mitigation in HTMP the past 2 years to clear beetle kill. Unfortunately, we'll probably get to see how effective that was.
    With the crown burning and the winds that have been pretty much constant, I don't think it will have any effect. Hearing that it is in already in Lory, I don't hold much hope at all.

    Very depressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brokefork View Post
    Just heard Rist Canyon pretty much burned out most of the structures. I'm afraid the wolf sanctuary is toast and there were still quite a few that weren't evacuated up there.
    Bummer! I met one of the wolves during a campfire program over Memorial Day Weekend. Very cool animal. Hope he made it out.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

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    Just heard Rist Canyon pretty much burned out most of the structures. I'm afraid the wolf sanctuary is toast and there were still quite a few that weren't evacuated up there.

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    I was just talking about the wolf sanctuary yesterday. If they weren't all evacuated I'd turn 'em loose if it was up to me.
    "Don't take life so serious, son . . . it ain't no how permanent." - Porky Pine

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    Looking at the updated map, it appears the entirety of the Young's Gulch trail is also torched. Dreadful.
    All other things are rarely equal . . .

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocavaak View Post
    I was just talking about the wolf sanctuary yesterday. If they weren't all evacuated I'd turn 'em loose if it was up to me.
    They are reporting that the ones they couldn't get out have concrete fire dens under ground. So let's hope they used them.

  71. #71
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    criminy!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-fire.jpg  

    "Don't take life so serious, son . . . it ain't no how permanent." - Porky Pine

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Southernmost smoke appears to be burning on the Timber Trail in Lory State Park.

    Photo from MTBR user Pulser
    It has crossed that ridge and is continuing south. If this keeps up hoursetooth will be toast by tomorrow morning.

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    Not that it's more important than people homes/lives etc. but if this keeps up every good trail system in the FoCo area going to look like Bobcat Ridge

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIVER29 View Post
    Not that it's more important than people homes/lives etc. but if this keeps up every good trail system in the FoCo area going to look like Bobcat Ridge
    Bobcat / Ginny is an awesome trail, but eerily dead. Its truly un-believable that our daily go to trail systems are going up in flames, and may be similar very shortly.

    Our street (mountain and sheilds) was extremely hazy last night. This is super sad.

    We might need to get a big crew together to clean the trail systems up in the next few months.
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    I'm sorry bros. Any word on a cause? I heard on the radio in Denver speculation that it was lighting. I think the smoke I'm seeing from my office in the Denver area is coming from New Mexico. The smoke came in thick when the winds started coming out of the south east and now seems to be less thick after winds started coming out of the south.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour View Post
    I'm sorry bros. Any word on a cause? I heard on the radio in Denver speculation that it was lighting. I think the smoke I'm seeing from my office in the Denver area is coming from New Mexico. The smoke came in thick when the winds started coming out of the south east and now seems to be less thick after winds started coming out of the south.
    Officially they are still thinking lighting, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unofficially, I've heard rumors of fireworks, and several people have told me they thought it started via a bonfire at a Mishuawka after party (not a the Mish but somewhere a group was partying afterward). We'll see!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIVER29 View Post
    Officially they are still thinking lighting, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unofficially, I've heard rumors of fireworks, and several people have told me they thought it started via a bonfire at a Mishuawka after party (not a the Mish but somewhere a group was partying afterward). We'll see!
    I heard the local rumor that it was started on private property via a man made fire. I also agree that lightning is un-likely, unless the fire was slow in its initial growth form the electrical storm we had on Thursday.

    Any word on the Mish? I wonder if that place is ok since Youngs is only a couple miles away.
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  78. #78
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    interesting stuff


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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    And that link doesn't work.

    And now it does.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    And that link doesn't work.
    Are you sure?

    It is a pdf of a map containing structures and lot information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    I heard the local rumor that it was started on private property via a man made fire. I also agree that lightning is un-likely, unless the fire was slow in its initial growth form the electrical storm we had on Thursday.

    Any word on the Mish? I wonder if that place is ok since Youngs is only a couple miles away.
    It was still standing as of this morning but looking at the map of the burning area it won't have to move very far north to be right on top of it.

  83. #83
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    More maps:

    Colorado Wildfire Viewer

    High Park Fire and Evacuation Map (running slow at the moment)

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    Are you sure?

    It is a pdf of a map containing structures and lot information.
    Looks like you got that from this:
    Colorado wildfire: High Park Fire near Fort Collins devours 37,000 acres - Colorado Daily

    good find!

    100 building/structures so far, thoughts and prayers go out to those with homes up in the canyon.
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    Are you sure?

    It is a pdf of a map containing structures and lot information.
    Yeah. At first it said "server not found" but now it's loading up as a pdf map that you can zoom in on and see the property addresses in the burned areas and areas that escaped. Pretty chilling data there. And I bet the eastern boundary is even more to the east by now. Thanks.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    More maps:

    Colorado Wildfire Viewer

    High Park Fire and Evacuation Map (running slow at the moment)
    Thanks for that linky but it was last updated 6/10 in the evening.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Looks like you got that from this:
    Colorado wildfire: High Park Fire near Fort Collins devours 37,000 acres - Colorado Daily

    good find!

    100 building/structures so far, thoughts and prayers go out to those with homes up in the canyon.
    Watching that Live Video of the helicopter scooping who knows how many gallons, then flying into the smoke, it's like trying to put out that fire with a tablespoon.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  88. #88
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    This fire is just pure crazy. If it heads south a few more miles, just about every trail in Fort Collins will be burned, sad. The 1st two photos are from in front of my house, 1st was Saturday, next was Sunday, third was an hour ago, top of Maxwell, looking at Lory. I hope they can get this one under control soon, Couple of really good friends have already been evac'd, one of them probably lost everything, the others are just hoping the fire does not head south towards Masonville.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-img_3165.jpg  

    High Park Fire-img_3173.jpg  

    High Park Fire-img_3182.jpg  


  89. #89
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    Some of the best memories I have are rides on those trails - damn. I know it sounds selfish, but that is my backyard.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  90. #90
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    live Q&A right now (looks like its over):
    Colorado wildfire: High Park fire near Fort Collins devours 37,000 acres - Colorado Daily

    Confirmed lighting strike was the cause.

    Update: Another update will be televised around 8:00
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    live Q&A right now (looks like its over):
    Colorado wildfire: High Park fire near Fort Collins devours 37,000 acres - Colorado Daily

    Confirmed lighting strike was the cause.

    Update: Another update will be televised around 8:00

    Guerdonian, I was a firefighter for 20 years living on the north coast of California, and I can say that with lighting strikes they can skunk around for a few days before they explode. I spent many nights chasing strikes out here in the back country.

    The last time I rode Hewlett's with my son 2 month's ago, I could not believe the amount of beetle kill there. The only good thing about fire is that it will kill and heal the forest.

    I am sad for the loss of some of my favorite trails, but more I am sad for the loss of peoples lives and property.

    My thoughts are with all of you there.

    Thanks to all of you for the updates.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by norton55 View Post
    <snip> The only good thing about fire is that it will kill and heal the forest.
    This.

    I am sad for the loss of some of my favorite trails, but more I am sad for the loss of peoples lives and property.

    My thoughts are with all of you there.
    And this.

  93. #93
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    I first saw the smoke at 11am under a basically cloudless sky. Lightning? What lightning? Well, lightning from a few days previous obviously.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-20-2012 at 04:53 AM.
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  94. #94
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    This is looking across Horsetooth Reservoir. The saddle at the top of Timber is engulfed. It looks like the higher homes North of Lory are right in the burn zone. Lots of air support being deployed in Redstone Canyon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-img_4017.jpg  

    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  95. #95
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    Watched the aircraft flying back and forth between the fire and Broomfield while eating dinner. Reminded me of this website showing local air traffic:

    WebTrak: Denver International Airport
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  96. #96
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    The Cavalry is Here !!








  97. #97
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    Sounds like they hit it right up until the sun went down. Very little wind so I bet they dumped while they could. Sweet photos, BTW.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  98. #98
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    awesome photos obd and thanks for sharing!

    Last I heard 41,000 acres, still 0% contained, but making progress on the NE side so that is promising.

    We were watching lightning late Thursday night, all Friday home and saw nothing until Saturday. So wild the way it festered, then blew...

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenbikesnob View Post
    Gee, another fire in Colorado.



    Really? Who gives a flying f!ck?
    obviously not idiot trolls like you
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    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  100. #100
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    Currently in SE FoCo near Harmony and Timberline and now that the sun is down I can see flames. So sad.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser View Post
    Bummer! I met one of the wolves during a campfire program over Memorial Day Weekend. Very cool animal. Hope he made it out.
    My fiance volunteers at W.O.L.F as have I.

    Some of the enclosures have fire dens. These wolves remained at the sanctuary. The wolves that were evacuated were done so with his/her pack member/enclosure mate to decrease potential stress.

    Last I heard, W.O.L.F. was meeting with area patrollers at 3pm today 6/11 to assess whether or not the sanctuary had been damaged and/or the possibility of potential damage.
    Last edited by mtn.skratch; 06-11-2012 at 09:06 PM. Reason: add time/date info

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn.skratch View Post
    My fiance volunteers at W.O.L.F as have I.

    Some of the enclosures have fire dens. These wolves remained at the sanctuary. The wolves that were evacuated were done so with his/her pack member/enclosure mate to decrease potential stress.

    Last I heard, W.O.L.F. was meeting with area patrollers at 3pm today 6/11 to assess whether or not the sanctuary had been damaged and/or the possibility of potential damage.
    We met one of the wolves @ Hermit Park. An amazing animal and a wealth of information. Would hate to hear the (relatively) friendly guy we saw would be gone...
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  103. #103
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    I've been offshore in the Gulf of Mexico for the last three weeks and will be flying home today. Not looking forward to seeing this.

    My wife has sent me photos since Saturday when she first saw a thin plume of smoke rising from the hills. To see this much destruction happen so quickly makes me sick to me stomach.

    I cannot imagine what it must be like to evacuate and not know if you've lost your home. My thoughts and prayers are with all those directly affected, and with the tenacious fire crews who put their safety on the line to try and control this monster! Be safe out there.

  104. #104
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    NOAA reports variable winds today in Denver. The Denver area seems shrouded in smoke this morning. Hopefully good progress can be made in the fight today.

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    Smell like a campfire in Broomfield.

  106. #106
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    Drove up to overland road last night to take a gander. Unfortunately half of fort collins had the same idea. It was an amazing sight though, in a very sad way. Glowing hills of red and orange.
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  107. #107
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    Here is a good map of the fire....taken from the infrared scan run last night at 6pm:

    Colorado Wildfire Viewer

  108. #108
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    It appears that the stipulation is that the lightning strike from last Wednesday ignited the fire. The state requested data on lightning strikes from that time in a 15mile radius of the epicenter of the fire. Nearly 500 confirmed lightning strikes from very minor in 5000 Amp range to really powerful, near 200,000 Amps. The latter can easily be blamed for igniting the forest.

    _MK

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    I live in the neighborhood SW of JJ's there at Taft/Harmony. The road this morning was blocked by a white unmarked Suburban heading west, with a full road block 1/3 mile further west by the Fox Hills neighborhood.

    Looks like the feds are here now. I saw 20-30 F-350's loaded and rolling south down Taft, so some reinforcement is here it appears.

    Here are some pics I took last night. It's surreal. We have friends that live 200 yards from the Lory entrance that thankfully had some time to pack, but to think 16 hours earlier Saturday morning we were doing trail work and had a Niner demo at Lory seems crazy to me.

    Brett
    Yea? I'm in that area also. PM Sent...

  110. #110
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    "New evacuation order is in place for Pingree Park Road, Hourglass and Comanche reservoirs, east on Buckhorn Road up to and including Pennock Pass, NE to junction with Stove Prairie and Hwy 14; West to junction with Highway 15 and Pingree Park Road. This evacuation includes Pingree Park Campus and Sky Ranch Lutheran Camp. (25 notification sent)."
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

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    https://twitter.com/jpmeyerDPost/sta...29189034131456

    "High Park Fire incident commander says fire likely won't be under control until the fall. ‪#highparkfire‬"

    spreading misinformation?

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDKeg View Post
    https://twitter.com/jpmeyerDPost/sta...29189034131456

    "High Park Fire incident commander says fire likely won't be under control until the fall. ‪#highparkfire‬"

    spreading misinformation?
    Control vs containment. Containment will hopefully be soon... weekend? (fingers crossed).

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDKeg View Post
    https://twitter.com/jpmeyerDPost/sta...29189034131456

    "High Park Fire incident commander says fire likely won't be under control until the fall. ‪#highparkfire‬"

    spreading misinformation?

    I doubt it. That fire is a living breathing organism and until you rob it of 1 of the 3 essential things that fire needs, heat, fuel or oxygen it will continue to burn. Pray for heavy rain or an early snow.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    Control vs containment. Containment will hopefully be soon... weekend? (fingers crossed).
    Temps will be back in the 90's yet this week, humidity virtually useless at it's current levels....forcast calls for more of the same for the next 10 days....with zero chance of rain in sight. If you look at the beetle kill areas on this map (click the Beetle Kill button to turn on that layer)...you'll understand just how much fuel is ready to burn at the drop of an ember up there:

    Colorado Wildfire Viewer



    This fire is an absolute monster. Another 100 fire fighters are rolling in today. 2 more pieces or aerial equipment land this afternoon...making 26 pieces of aerial equipment to fight the blaze.

    I also noticed on the NE corner of the burn map (in the link I posted above) that the fire crossed Hwy 14 and lept the Poudre River. In that direction it's headed to where the Hewlett Fire burned out and was contained....but I'm to understand there is still a good chunk of fuel in that area to burn and could continue through there.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Beastro View Post
    Temps will be back in the 90's yet this week, humidity virtually useless at it's current levels....forcast calls for more of the same for the next 10 days....with zero chance of rain in sight. If you look at the beetle kill areas on this map (click the Beetle Kill button to turn on that layer)...you'll understand just how much fuel is ready to burn at the drop of an ember up there:

    Colorado Wildfire Viewer



    This fire is an absolute monster. Another 100 fire fighters are rolling in today. 2 more pieces or aerial equipment land this afternoon...making 26 pieces of aerial equipment to fight the blaze.

    I also noticed on the NE corner of the burn map (in the link I posted above) that the fire crossed Hwy 14 and lept the Poudre River. In that direction it's headed to where the Hewlett Fire burned out and was contained....but I'm to understand there is still a good chunk of fuel in that area to burn and could continue through there.
    It's disgusting thinking how we were watching it saturday morning when it was relatively nothing. And then I read that the people who reported it said that they watched it burn for 5 hours before anyone showed up. I don't know that it would have stopped it, but WTF is that about? We never saw a plane before 11 or so, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    It's disgusting thinking how we were watching it saturday morning when it was relatively nothing. And then I read that the people who reported it said that they watched it burn for 5 hours before anyone showed up. I don't know that it would have stopped it, but WTF is that about? We never saw a plane before 11 or so, right?
    Pretty much anything is preventable with enough hindsight.
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  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    It's disgusting thinking how we were watching it saturday morning when it was relatively nothing. And then I read that the people who reported it said that they watched it burn for 5 hours before anyone showed up. I don't know that it would have stopped it, but WTF is that about? We never saw a plane before 11 or so, right?
    I saw the first plane and helicopter within minutes of each other right at 11am Saturday. Neither aircraft was dropping water or anything, just circled over the initial smoke then left, didn't see anything dropping water until hours later, and those drops were few and far between.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser View Post
    We met one of the wolves @ Hermit Park. An amazing animal and a wealth of information. Would hate to hear the (relatively) friendly guy we saw would be gone...
    The wolves are awesome animals. To lose them would be among the many great losses that may potentially arise. Some good news: They got up there to inspect the sanctuary today and the wolves that were left all are alive! The fire did reach the sanctuary but enough had been cleared that all of the enclosures were good and relatively untouched. They even had time to feed them.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    It's disgusting thinking how we were watching it saturday morning when it was relatively nothing. And then I read that the people who reported it said that they watched it burn for 5 hours before anyone showed up. I don't know that it would have stopped it, but WTF is that about? We never saw a plane before 11 or so, right?
    Fire Crews and air craft are not infinite resources that show up at the snap of a finger. If they are available and stationed near by it still takes time to mobilize them. Of course people could be willing to increase their taxes to have more resources just standing by waiting for a fire in a particular area and ignore needs in others, but how likely is that?

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn.skratch View Post
    I saw the first plane and helicopter within minutes of each other right at 11am Saturday. Neither aircraft was dropping water or anything, just circled over the initial smoke then left, didn't see anything dropping water until hours later, and those drops were few and far between.
    The large aircraft that drop water are very few in number and are stretched thin by nationwide budget cuts and multiple fires demanding their services. I'm paraphrasing here but 10 years ago there were 40 and now there are 17. Something like that.

    Check out this link more on that:

    air tanker - Wildfire Today
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-13-2012 at 04:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    The aircraft that drop water are very few in number and are stretched thin by nationwide budget cuts and multiple fires demanding their services. I'm paraphrasing here but 10 years ago there were 40 and now there are 17. Something like that.
    Plus they are very expensive. Even a light to medium lift helicopter like a Bell UH 204 is around $2000 per hour and that doesn't include the ground support staff and truck(s). Heavy lift helicopters like a K-max are quite a bit more and if you get into the really big machines like Chinooks or sky cranes it's close to $10,000 per hour. I don't know what the cost for the big air tankers is but I know it's huge.

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    Just heard the wolves are all OK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    It's disgusting thinking how we were watching it saturday morning when it was relatively nothing. And then I read that the people who reported it said that they watched it burn for 5 hours before anyone showed up.
    Hard to get to the bottom of that one.... 9news reported a timeline of a call at about 6am, and that the first fire crew got there at about 0730. That's a pretty good response, considering the volunteers from Rist Canyon had to respond to a page from their homes, get the things they need together, get to the fire station, wait for the whole crew to assemble (only as fast as the slowest player) and then deploy to the scene of the fire which is probably 30-45min by dirt road, and then hike in. Then to have the savvy to call for the air support as soon as they did, I give them props for understanding the potential. Wildland fire is just a completely different breed of emergency than most people are used to. It takes hours to get things going.
    It would have been optimal to knock the $h!# out of this fire the minute it was discovered. Wildland fire is SUCH a logistics intensive propostion that that just isn't possible. I doubt there's anyone to blame, despite the media's attempts at sensationalizing this tragic event even further.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack View Post
    It's disgusting thinking how we were watching it saturday morning when it was relatively nothing. And then I read that the people who reported it said that they watched it burn for 5 hours before anyone showed up. I don't know that it would have stopped it, but WTF is that about? We never saw a plane before 11 or so, right?
    Don't second guess the professionals unless you have something to back it up other than armchair whining. Since when is it our job (humans) to mess with nature in this regard anyway? talk to most forestry experts, they'll tell you fires are perfectly normal, expected and ecologically important to the forest. I don't necessarily agree with that, especially when property is involved, but unless you are a forest service professional, don't blast them from the interzweb for not doing enough. saving structures, people, animals, etc, fine, but empathy for poor old mother forest is ridiculous.

    Here's one of thousands of examples of typical fire policy analysis:

    http://www.isnie.org/assets/files/papers2007/berry.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    The aircraft that drop water are very few in number and are stretched thin by nationwide budget cuts and multiple fires demanding their services. I'm paraphrasing here but 10 years ago there were 40 and now there are 17. Something like that.
    Wow, that is quite the decrease in support over the last decade.

    I understand this and am stoked by the response from emergency support. I am more than pleased with their efforts and successes in this situation. The fire fighters are on it. I get multiple notices every hour. The last I got was that they were sending engines back up our road at 10:04 tonight. They are dialed. Informed. Prepared and ready to fight.

    Thank you fire fighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    fire crews and air craft are not infinite resources that show up at the snap of a finger. if they are available and stationed near by it still takes time to mobilize them. Of course people could be willing to increase their taxes to have more resources just standing by waiting for a fire in a particular area and ignore needs in others, but how likely is that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin_Cup View Post
    Don't second guess the professionals unless you have something to back it up other than armchair whining. Since when is it our job (humans) to mess with nature in this regard anyway? talk to most forestry experts, they'll tell you fires are perfectly normal, expected and ecologically important to the forest. I don't necessarily agree with that, especially when property is involved, but unless you are a forest service professional, don't blast them from the interzweb for not doing enough. saving structures, people, animals, etc, fine, but empathy for poor old mother forest is ridiculous.

    Here's one of thousands of examples of typical fire policy analysis:

    http://www.isnie.org/assets/files/papers2007/berry.pdf
    Almost all regions have their natural phenomena that it just a part of the natural process until you add people and their property then those natural and inevitable processes become "disasters." Other areas have floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes and so on. Colorado, especially the Front Range has wildfire.

    For whatever reasons people choose to live in areas prone to wildland fire. Human suppression of fire for the last century has only added to the severity of the fire potential. There are things they can do to protect their lives and property but there are no guarantee.

    It's a tough situation because people tend to want the forest to be static - they want their trees to be green and forest to be lush. They want their houses to be surrounded by nice shady trees. They want their homes secluded with narrow winding driveways. They don't want controlled burns or logging/thinning nearby. They want low taxes but a high degree of fire protection.

    As long as people choose to live in earthquake zones, or flood plains, or hurricane prone coastlines, or in this case, wildland/urban interfaces, those events will happen, people will loose property and lives will be lost. Depending on how much we're willing to spend and how we're willing to play the odds we can minimize the damage, but we'll never eliminate it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    ...It's a tough situation because people tend to want the forest to be static - they want their trees to be green and forest to be lush. They want their houses to be surrounded by nice shady trees. They want their homes secluded with narrow winding driveways. They don't want controlled burns or logging/thinning nearby. They want low taxes but a high degree of fire protection.

    As long as people choose to live in earthquake zones, or flood plains, or hurricane prone coastlines, or in this case, wildland/urban interfaces, those events will happen, people will loose property and lives will be lost. Depending on how much we're willing to spend and how we're willing to play the odds we can minimize the damage, but we'll never eliminate it...
    Yep, as the recently departed sage Ed Quillen used to say, people insist on living in the stupid zone.

    Please don't be offended by that, people who live in the wildland/urban interface. I totally understand. I lived in Black Forest surrounded by beautiful mature ponderosa pines. It was a lovely, pastoral setting. The Abert squirrels and fox and steller's jays and the shade and the smell of the pines... it was a really nice place to wake up on a Saturday morning.

    But I realized after several years there that the existence was vulnerable. In the blink of an eye a wildfire could roar through and cook the house and the trees--and insurance would just pay me to rebuild a house on a moonscape. I got very uncomfortable with that, and with the way the aquifer was being depleted by so many other people who wanted to be out there.

    It's a done deal. Colorado has and is going to have people living in harms way. And that fact will continue to affect the way we manage forests.

    I wish the best for all the people who's lives are being turned upside down. I really feel sad about all that country around the Ft Collins/Loveland area. I lived there for a while as a mountain biker and got a degree from CSU. My dad went to school up there, my two older sisters were born in Poudre Valley Hospital. My girlfriend's uncle lives up there on the northwest edge of town, and he's probably been evacuated. I have inlaws up there.

    It's a very sad thing, but as zrm points out it's a natural a phenomenon in Colorado; as natural as avalanches. It has happened since long before any of us were here, and will continue to happen long after we are gone.
    Last edited by TomP; 06-13-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin_Cup View Post
    Don't second guess the professionals unless you have something to back it up other than armchair whining. Since when is it our job (humans) to mess with nature in this regard anyway? talk to most forestry experts, they'll tell you fires are perfectly normal, expected and ecologically important to the forest. I don't necessarily agree with that, especially when property is involved, but unless you are a forest service professional, don't blast them from the interzweb for not doing enough. saving structures, people, animals, etc, fine, but empathy for poor old mother forest is ridiculous.

    Here's one of thousands of examples of typical fire policy analysis:

    http://www.isnie.org/assets/files/papers2007/berry.pdf
    Here's the deal, what I meant was that it was disgusting to think that it was so small when we were watching it start up, and that it is now so devastating. I did not mean that the response was disgusting. I was not "whining" so F-off. I cannot wonder about the timing of the response to the call? If the Rist volunteer crew were the first to respond, that is amazing. I would have thought that there would be some other service closer and more well funded that could respond quicker than 5 hours out. An hour and a half for a volunteer department is great.

    Our forests are not particularly healthy in a lot of places. We have done this to ourselves by clear-cutting, and deciding to take this stance on fire mitigation that has extended the time between burns by something like a third, making the fires more severe when they finally do roll through. If we are going to try to limit the fires and dump sh!t-tons of money into the fighting of them, it would be nice to stop it early. That is all I was saying.

    As far as people losing their homes, it sucks, but my buddy whose house burned in Rist does not hold anything against the fire crews or anyone else for that matter. He built there and knew the risks.

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    this thread =


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    "and that's the way it is" ....for the kiddos.
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    Air tankers at Broomfield airport

    They were coming, they were going. One would land, taxi back to get refilled, another would land, they'd be on different parts of the runway. On and on. I'd glance back over my shoulder at the fire which ebbed and flowed. One minute huge plumes of white smoke, then plumes of black smoke. The tankers would take off. Then they'd return.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-20-2012 at 04:53 AM.
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    Very cool. I would love to sit shot gun for an afternoon of fire fighting in one of those planes.

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    Very nice pics man. I wonder if that stuff is hard to wash off the belly (plane).
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    They were coming, they were going. One would land, taxi back to get refilled, another would land, they'd be on different parts of the runway. On and on. I'd glance back over my shoulder at the fire which ebbed and flowed. One minute huge plumes of white smoke, then plumes of black smoke. The tankers would take off. Then they'd return.
    Great shots man ! Thanks.

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    Day 5

    The Air Quality was HORRIBLE this morning, 1-2 block visibility and only ~1/4 mi out at my job site 50 mi away.

    The smoke did lift this afternoon, and I took these on my way home and across the street from my house. It was nice to get to smell all of the linden trees in full bloom instead of rancid smoke for a change.














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    This afternoon from West Arvada the smoke plumes where clearly visible. They looked like billowing clouds. Except they were coming from the ground. There seemed to be two distinct plumes that didn't seem to be too close together indicating the size of this fire.

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    Driving home to Berthoud after riding in Lyons just now, flames clearly visible in places, looks like it's moving south a bit. Gonna be smokey again in the morning for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocavaak View Post
    Very nice pics man. I wonder if that stuff is hard to wash off the belly (plane).
    I'd be more concerned on how hard that stuff is to wash out of your bloodstream. PCBEs do a body good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by subliminalshiver View Post
    It would have been optimal to knock the $h!# out of this fire the minute it was discovered.
    Ironically, this is the type of thinking and forest management that creates "superfire" conditions, like we've got now virtually everywhere in Colorado (and the rest of the SW for that matter). From an article in the DP on Saturday: "Colorado's 30 largest wildfires on record broke out after 1996, with 77 percent after 2002, the data show."

    Fires are getting bigger and more destructive - mostly due to climate change and an unnatural policy of fire suppression for decades.

    IMO, this is only getting worse. We need outcry for preventative resources: better forest management with controlled burns and letting fires burn + disincentives to stop folks from building, insuring, and rebuilding properties in areas that are dangerous and expensive to defend. And we need a collective understanding that fires are a normal part of forest ecosystems, but they have to be allowed to happen on a regular basis so they are smaller and less destructive.

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    Good nova on Forest fires called "Fire Wars"

    Very enlightening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    Ironically, this is the type of thinking and forest management that creates "superfire" conditions, like we've got now virtually everywhere in Colorado (and the rest of the SW for that matter). From an article in the DP on Saturday: "Colorado's 30 largest wildfires on record broke out after 1996, with 77 percent after 2002, the data show."

    Fires are getting bigger and more destructive - mostly due to climate change and an unnatural policy of fire suppression for decades.

    IMO, this is only getting worse. We need outcry for preventative resources: better forest management with controlled burns and letting fires burn + disincentives to stop folks from building, insuring, and rebuilding properties in areas that are dangerous and expensive to defend. And we need a collective understanding that fires are a normal part of forest ecosystems, but they have to be allowed to happen on a regular basis so they are smaller and less destructive.

    With all the residential building in the last 20-30 years in fire country, there's a lot of pressure to put everything out as quickly as possible. The "let it burn" philosophy is taken a somewhat better hold in the agencies but it's still a political hot potato. Politicians love to stand in front of "disasters" for the cameras wringing their hands, talking about who's to blame (usually the other party or ideology. People love blame.) and how we'll rebuild everything just like it was (till the next fire, flood, earthquake, hurricane) They are talking about letting this one run to the west to take out a lot of beetle kill. That would probably be a good thing.

    Of course with the fuel loads and windy drought conditions, when it comes down to it, in the end Mom nature is in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    Ironically, this is the type of thinking and forest management that creates "superfire" conditions, like we've got now virtually everywhere in Colorado (and the rest of the SW for that matter). From an article in the DP on Saturday: "Colorado's 30 largest wildfires on record broke out after 1996, with 77 percent after 2002, the data show."

    Fires are getting bigger and more destructive - mostly due to climate change and an unnatural policy of fire suppression for decades.

    IMO, this is only getting worse. We need outcry for preventative resources: better forest management with controlled burns and letting fires burn + disincentives to stop folks from building, insuring, and rebuilding properties in areas that are dangerous and expensive to defend. And we need a collective understanding that fires are a normal part of forest ecosystems, but they have to be allowed to happen on a regular basis so they are smaller and less destructive.
    Controlled burns sound good. Until they get out of hand. Then it's "why the controlled burn when the forest is so dry" or whatever.

    There's one (caused by lightning) down in New Mexico right now that's at about 300,000 acres. "Fortunately" it's in an area in southeastern NM of no homes so they're just letting it burn. Sort of a de-facto controlled burn.
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    Either let it burn or pay for active management

    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    With all the residential building in the last 20-30 years in fire country, there's a lot of pressure to put everything out as quickly as possible. The "let it burn" philosophy is taken a somewhat better hold in the agencies but it's still a political hot potato. ...
    Of course with the fuel loads and windy drought conditions, when it comes down to it, in the end Mom nature is in charge.
    There is so much development out there. As you say, it's politically impossible to let it burn if houses are going to go with it.

    So, once you get close to development, the forest ecosystem is not allowed to take care of itself. In my opinion, it just becomes the responsibility of the humans who've decided to keep the natural processes from happening to do what fire would have done.

    It's just like the discussion in an earlier thread about how we've chosen to kill down the predator populations to suit our own needs, and then we see deer and/or rodent populations explode. If we choose to kill off the predators, we then become responsible for thinning the herds of prey animals.

    In the west we do it by having the DOW issue hunting permits in the correct numbers per game unit. DOW checks out animal populations and sells licenses according to what numbers need to be culled. I think that more or less works here (except for in little mountain towns where the deer hide safe from hunters or natural predators). In parts of the midwest they can't keep up, and they have virtually no natural predators to even help keep up. The number of car/deer accidents is huge in some places for that reason, driving up insurance rates... but I digress.

    Instead of waiting until there's a crisis and forcing the taxpayers to foot the bill for throwing huge amounts of resources at putting a wildfire out, the forests should be thinned manually. It would be fairly costly, and lots of people wouldn't like seeing it, but it would probably be cheaper than fighting fire. Timber companies would not be allowed to clear-cut, but the way to make it work would be to have them selectively cut and remove fuel, probably overseen by forest management experts. Clear-cutting is what makes them money--this would probably have to be subsidized in order for them to have incentive to to it.

    But yeah, ultimately even then once in a while Ma Nature is just going to have her way.

    My opinion is that people who benefit should somehow be required to contribute to an effort to thin the forests near their homes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Controlled burns sound good. Until they get out of hand. Then it's "why the controlled burn when the forest is so dry" or whatever...
    Controlled burning is cheap enough for land management agencies to do with their own people within their own budgets. That's why it's the chosen method. It's obviously pretty dangerous. That's why I think the way it should be done would be to physically remove the fuel rather than burning it up on site.

    But it's messy to do that (pretty much have to let heavy equipment drive on the forest floor). Nobody would like that. And it's costly. It would have to be just in a sort of protection ring around forest areas that are populated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Controlled burning is cheap enough for land management agencies to do with their own people within their own budgets. That's why it's the chosen method. It's obviously pretty dangerous. That's why I think the way it should be done would be to physically remove the fuel rather than burning it up on site.

    But it's messy to do that (pretty much have to let heavy equipment drive on the forest floor). Nobody would like that. And it's costly. It would have to be just in a sort of protection ring around forest areas that are populated.

    This would be one of the rare instances where I would support some sort of Federal government program to enlist some of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of unemployed laborers out there and give them jobs clearing the deadfall manually. Offer minimum wage plus three hots and a cot. They could partially offset the costs by selling whatever lumber is usable to saw mills, and sell the rest as firewood or mulch it and use it at parks, or just landfill it.

    Yeah, it would take forever and cost a ton, but at least it would make slow steady progress, and put some people to work in the process. Maybe strong-arm the insurance companies (or offer tax incentives) to chip in, in the theory that an ounce of prevention could save them big $$$ when a monster fire takes out, you know, Aspen, or wherever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manmountain Dense View Post
    This would be one of the rare instances where I would support some sort of Federal government program to enlist some of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of unemployed laborers out there and give them jobs clearing the deadfall manually. Offer minimum wage plus three hots and a cot...
    Farmers can't even find legal laborers to pick vegetables--and they're often willing to pay more than minimum wage. That forest work is HARD baby. Especially if you're really talking manually, as in no machine bigger than a chain saw and light truck.

    And it's way more than the deadfall. Wildfires thin standing trees, live and dead. Those forests need to be radically thinned.

    When I had my 5 acre place in Black Forest I had a neighbor who was a Forestry PhD. We talked a bunch about what the forest needed up there. A healthy ponderosa forest should really only have a tree every 50-100 feet. Crown fires just roar through dense forests like dominoes. If the trees are spread out you're often just dealing with a creeping fire on the forest floor, and it only takes out small trees without (hopefully anyway) jumping to the canopy.

    My place had hundreds of mature ponderosa. After I talked to my neighbor I started on a program of hand thinning: chainsaw + wheelbarrow. Guess what I learned? Fell three or four mature ponderosa and you have yourself a whole weekend of cutting them into lengths you can lift, carting them to your woodpile with a wheelbarrow, stacking them, and hauling the slash away (BF had a drop-off site). And I was doing that all within 5 acres. Put those laborers out somewhere far from a road and you gots yourself a bit of work to do.

    Immigrants might do it for minimum wage. Americans? Not many would last a week. Even if those three hots were capped off with complimentary nightly 6-pack and hummer.
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    Hey...I didn't say it was going to be easy! And I didn't say they had to be legal. That's the beauty of a Federal program. So little of what the government does is legal anyway, why stand on technicalities?

    Hard work...low pay...great scenery! Plus, free food.

    Besides, the way the world is going right now, soon enough, we may see a whole lot people willing to work for whatever they can get. Hey, it worked for FDR.


    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    My place had hundreds of mature ponderosa. After I talked to my neighbor I started on a program of hand thinning: chainsaw + wheelbarrow. Guess what I learned? Fell three or four mature ponderosa and you have yourself a whole weekend of cutting them into lengths you can lift, carting them to your woodpile with a wheelbarrow, stacking them, and hauling the slash away (BF had a drop-off site). And I was doing that all within 5 acres. Put those laborers out somewhere far from a road and you gots yourself a bit of work to do.

    Yeah, I've taken out a few trees on my land by hand, and it ain't easy. But I think you underestimate the work ethic and kinetic potential of the American labor force, particularly when faced with...you know...the worst economic slump since the 1930's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manmountain Dense View Post
    ... Hey, it worked for FDR.
    ...
    Yeah, I've taken out a few trees on my land by hand, and it ain't easy. But I think you underestimate the work ethic and kinetic potential of the American labor force, particularly when faced with...you know...the worst economic slump since the 1930's.
    I'm a very big fan of the WPA/CCC. My grandfather worked on a couple projects with them back in the 30s. I don't have very clear info because he died when my dad was 8, but I've heard that he may have worked on the Rainbow Trail on one of his projects.

    I think it would be great if today's Americans would choose super-hard labor over no work at all. But those people 80 years ago were maybe just a little tougher than we are--they were tough like our neighbors to the south are tough.
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    For a six pack and a hummer you might be able to get the attention of our some of the sign spinners out there. The logistics of said compensation package might get a little tricky though. If my last experience with TSA is any measure, I think uncle Sam would not be up to the task.
    Last edited by fcrider; 06-14-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    For a six pack and a hummer you might be able to get the attention of our some of the sign spinners out there. The logistics of said compensation package might get a little tricky though. If my last visit to the DMV is any measure, I think uncle Sam would not be up to the task.
    DMVs are run by county governments. Uncle Sam ain't got nothin' to do with 'em

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    DMVs are run by county governments. Uncle Sam ain't got nothin' to do with 'em
    Point well taken. There, I fixed it.
    In retrospect, the Secret Service might be up to the task.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    Ironically, this is the type of thinking and forest management that creates "superfire" conditions, like we've got now virtually everywhere in Colorado (and the rest of the SW for that matter).
    Yeah, yeah, yeah... I was speaking hypothetically and retroactively. Hindsight makes this fire an easy early target. For instance, from the perspective of my friends in Rist Canyon whose house they worked 30 years to build is now toast. As in "Would of been nice to crush this fire immediately in this very specific, particular instance because then we wouldn't be homeless".
    I take the middle of this particular road. I think we all recognize the folly of past forest management practices. That's easy to see. On the other hand, we must also understand that in the New Era of forest management, and in the current economy, we don't have full-time fire crews at the staffing levels needed to respond in a definitive and timely manner to these fires anyway.. so it's kinda a dead point.

    Can't please anybody in here. Got people clamoring about reaping what 100 years of aggressive fire mitigation has sown, and others lamenting response times. Good thing it's fun to be argumentative or this forum would completely suck.
    **** censorship

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    Point well taken. There, I fixed it.
    In retrospect, the Secret Service might be up to the task.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by subliminalshiver View Post
    Yeah, yeah, yeah... I was speaking hypothetically and retroactively. Hindsight makes this fire an easy early target. For instance, from the perspective of my friends in Rist Canyon whose house they worked 30 years to build is now toast. As in "Would of been nice to crush this fire immediately in this very specific, particular instance because then we wouldn't be homeless".
    I take the middle of this particular road. I think we all recognize the folly of past forest management practices. That's easy to see. On the other hand, we must also understand that in the New Era of forest management, and in the current economy, we don't have full-time fire crews at the staffing levels needed to respond in a definitive and timely manner to these fires anyway.. so it's kinda a dead point.

    Can't please anybody in here. Got people clamoring about reaping what 100 years of aggressive fire mitigation has sown, and others lamenting response times. Good thing it's fun to be argumentative or this forum would completely suck.
    It wouldn't be the internet without pointless arguments, and MTBR is a sociological study in how pointless these can get to be. This thread at least feels more sensible than most.

    I'll second your opinion on the middle ground and agree with you entirely. hmmm, not very argumentative.

  157. #157
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    Oh, Yeti_Chris. You are so dramatic:

    "Your and ASS HOLE for posting That !! And yes i will leave me Name Yeti_chris !!! you Fing tool !"

    A larger forest fire is burning in Mexico. Do you give a sh*t?
    A recent forest fire in California destroyed nearly 500 homes. Do you give a sh*t?

    The fact remains that forest fires are a "natural" phenomena. A process that MUST happen in order to keep a forest healthy and promote growth of sustainable vegetation. When you build an unnatural structure in a forest, you undertake the risks associated with that. It is not the responsibility of the general public, especially those that choose not to live in a fire zone, to pay for or provide protection from those natural elements. YOU can pay for insurance, but that is to replace or repair a damaged structure, not provide protection.

    I choose to live in such a natural area. I am surrounded by plenty of fuel. I know what will happen, and I am prepared for it.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Mmmm...not donuts
    Didn't the Secret Service recently epic fail at trying to arrange just this sort of thing?

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerglen View Post
    Didn't the Secret Service recently epic fail at trying to arrange just this sort of thing?
    Depends on your perspective I guess. Prostitution is legal in Columbia. But then again, that's waaay OT.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  160. #160
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    Depends on what the definition of the word *fail* is

    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    Depends on your perspective I guess. Prostitution is legal in Columbia. But then again, that's waaay OT.
    If getting caught buying a hummer is a fail, yep. Epic fail. Otherwise, I'd say they had a Mission Accomplished outing.

    And our good friends at the DEA also had a little win/fail thing going on over there.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    And our good friends at the DEA also had a little win/fail thing going on over there.
    Note to self: next MTB trip = Columbia!
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    Depends on your perspective I guess. Prostitution is legal in Columbia. But then again, that's waaay OT.
    I spent two weeks in Amsterdam once. The hookers there sat behind windows you could peruse while strollin' the avenue. This one was just beautiful. She looked me in the eye as only a hooker can. My will became weak. I'd been without for long enough (girlfriend somewhere else) that I was sorely tempted.

    The night I was going to give in, I went over to her window...she wasn't there...I was sad for a moment then the grossest dude possible walked out her door, then she returned, sat down and gave me that look again. I said to myself, you were just with THAT GUY?

    Fortunately, my GF showed up the next day. End of story, sort of. Yes, waaaaaaay OT.
    I have pics of Amsterdam but not the hooker. Sorry.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-14-2012 at 03:09 PM.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

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    Columbia, DEA, Amsterdam, hummers? I had to go back up to the top of the page to figure out what this thread is about.

  164. #164
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    ....and we're back. Let's see, where were we? Oh yeah, the fire. Here's the latest map: http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv..._0613_2200.pdf

    I'm guessing the tactics on the western front are the crews will hunker down on Pingree Park Road, do some back burns, and let the fire come to them. Can't imaging they'd try to intervene anywhere in between unless they try to save one or two cabins up on Monument Gulch.

    Just opened the back window and took a sniff -- not too smoky! Might try to take my first ride in about a week.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  165. #165
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    I bet they're concentrating their efforts on "savable" structures and just letting the fire burn its way into untracked areas. Can't be everywhere at once.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  166. #166
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    Well they were hoping the Pouder river would act as a berrior and the fire would stop there. Our worst fears were realized today as the fire jumped it. There are numerous houses that it's heading for now. 6-14-12
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    Well they were hoping the Pouder river would act as a berrior and the fire would stop there. Our worst fears were realized today as the fire jumped it. There are numerous houses that it's heading for now. 6-14-12
    Hey, "just let 'em burn" right? The fvcking armchair hindsight bullshite on this forum is amazing (not referring to your post DJ). These are people's homes.

    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro? That would have a million % more positive impact on the environment than every mountain community in Colorado combined, and save billions of taxpayer dollars to boot.
    Last edited by thump; 06-14-2012 at 10:50 PM.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    Hey, "just let 'em burn" right? The fvcking armchair hindsight bullshite on this forum is amazing (not referring to your post DJ). These are people's homes.

    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro? That would have a million % more positive impact on the environment than every mountain community in Colorado combined, and save billions of taxpayer dollars to boot.
    Don't be shy, thump, tell us what you really think.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    Hey, "just let 'em burn" right? The fvcking armchair hindsight bullshite on this forum is amazing (not referring to your post DJ). These are people's homes.

    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro? That would have a million % more positive impact on the environment than every mountain community in Colorado combined, and save billions of taxpayer dollars to boot.
    It's just too easy so I as a mountain resident just let the tards be. You don't see mountain people hopping on the internet every time there is a tornado leveling the CO plains and saying f*&k em they chose to live there so eff off. People live in all sorts of areas with all sorts of risks but wildfires really seem to bring out the holier than thou soulless suburbanites. Not just here of course but the national news article comments are sickening.

    Fire management or suppression has created these problems so I guess we'll have to see how it goes in the future. It's not my house burning so I don't know how I'd feel but I know what's important to me and what I need to bring. One of the guys they've interviewed on the news has the best line I've heard from someone whose home has burned which is something to the effect of the fire can't take my million dollar views.

  170. #170
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    I don't think anyone here is advocating letting houses burn. And calling someone a 'soulless suburbanite' because they choose not to live in a cabin up in the woods is just stupid. I think there is concensus here that we as a society have contributed to the conditions out there. Discussing fire mitigation techniques is constructive dialogue.

    Bottom line, if anyone builds/buys property in a fire zone, they should know the risks and should be accountable for them. I too have friends who lost their home in Rist Canyon. I don't hear them bltching about the poor response times. They knew the risks, they accepted them. And they are prepared to pick up the pieces and move on. Houses can be rebuilt.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    ... I think there is concensus here that we as a society have contributed to the conditions out there. Discussing fire mitigation techniques is constructive dialogue.

    Bottom line, if anyone builds/buys property in a fire zone, they should know the risks and should be accountable for them...
    I completely agree. This kind of discussion is completely valid, and I think it's a shame for people to get angry and start with name-calling. People should be able to disagree, but a higher level of discourse allows for disagreeing people to at least gain insight into each others' perspective. Figuring out how to have civil discourse is becoming a lost art in this country--to our detriment.

    I think it's a true assertion that people who build/buy in a fire zone (or under an avalanche chute, or in a flood zone) should know the risks. I will say, when I bought my place in Black Forest I didn't have a completely coherent understanding.

    When you buy in a flood plain, your mortgage lender will require you to carry flood insurance, and you hear all about it before the fact. When you buy in a fire zone, you take on your homeowner's insurance and go on about your business. The first year we had seriously dry conditions when I lived in the forest, I called my insurance agent to ask about adding coverage for my trees. I knew my structure could be rebuilt, but my house was a crappy little thing. What made it valuable was that it sat on a really nice wooded lot. I was willing to pay more to cover the lost value of my property if the trees and kinnikinnick and other vegetation were all to burn.

    He said, "For your trees? We don't have that. We could cover 2 or 3 of them maybe..."

    That was when it dawned on me. If my property got completely burned down to bare soil, I would be able to rebuild a modest structure, but it wouldn't be worth bupkiss for many years, until vegetation came back.

    I am not an idiot, and I consider things very carefully. But I'd lived there for nearly 2 years before this reality dawned on me. Wildfire would cost more than every possession, family heirloom, photograph, every stick of furniture and piece of clothing I owned, (some fraction of which would be covered by insurance) but it would also remove probably hundreds of thousands of dollars from my personal worth. Even though I was willing to pay to cover that loss, such coverage was not available for any price.

    I think about that when I think of all those people sleeping on a gym floor or in a friend's bedroom somewhere whose property may have become a moonscape. Their lives will be changed dramatically. Insurance offsets losses, but in few situations does it completely compensate you. And there are some things that can't be paid for.

    It would have been nice to have somebody explain that to me up front.

    I was lucky. We did OK when we sold our place in the forest. We at least took our equity with us.

    Sounds like your friends who lost their place in Rist Canyon have a great deal of character. I wish them the best.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    ... cutting them into lengths you can lift, carting them to your woodpile with a wheelbarrow, stacking them, and hauling the slash away (BF had a drop-off site). And I was doing that all within 5 acres. Put those laborers out somewhere far from a road and you gots yourself a bit of work to do...
    Somebody left me positive rep (thanks!) and made a really good point in the comment:

    Great points! However, one solution to the work load is to use draught animals. Low impact and great hauling capacity. Their work has been proven in farming, why not reintroduce them to forestry?

    The use of animals to do real work is another of many lost arts. Oxen!
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  173. #173
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    There was no name calling, and don't fool yourself that MTBR practices the "art of civil discourse" or that there's some educated discussion happening here. All that's happening here is a few folks spouting off regurgitated secondhand hindsight theories about forest management.

    In the mean time, what we know with certainty is that right now some guy has his kids sleeping on a gym floor. The little stuff his kids made him while growing up and the '57 Chevy he's spent the last 5 years wrenching on in the garage are gone. If he's lucky and savvy enough not to get royally screwed by his insurance company then they may start to have their lives back together in 2 or 3 years. At the same time there's a volunteer firefighter sitting out there risking his life because he's trying to save the homes of his friends and neighbors from the same fate.

    On any other forum I belong to there's a "High Park Fire" thread, and it's full of status updates, folks offering help and folks raising donations. It's only on MTBR that you hear some jackhole (yes, name calling now) spouting off about risk management and "let it burn" theories while the fire is still raging and labeling it as healthy intellectual debate. Next time there's a fatal pileup on I-25 let's discuss how we should tell the ambulances to head home and let folks fend for themselves because they all knew the risks of driving in city traffic and it costs too much tax money to help.

    Riding a mountainbike in the woods qualifies you to know fvck-all abount large scale forest ecology.

  174. #174
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    Well OK then.

    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    There was no name calling, and don't fool yourself that MTBR practices the "art of civil discourse" or that there's some educated discussion happening here..
    OK, I seem to have really really irritated you. Sorry about that.

    Perhaps clarifying my point would be helpful.

    I did not say that there is civil discourse here. I was saying it might be nice if there was.

    And, the term "holier than thou soulless suburbanites" was used. That seems like name-calling to me.

    If you really would like to see civil discourse or an educated discussion, be civil. Educate.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    There was no name calling, and don't fool yourself that MTBR practices the "art of civil discourse" or that there's some educated discussion happening here. All that's happening here is a few folks spouting off regurgitated secondhand hindsight theories about forest management.

    It's only on MTBR that you hear some jackhole (yes, name calling now) spouting off about risk management and "let it burn" theories while the fire is still raging and labeling it as healthy intellectual debate.

    Riding a mountainbike in the woods qualifies you to know fvck-all abount large scale forest ecology.
    Welcome to social media. Any forum is open to opinion, that what makes it interesting and why people want to contribute to the discussion. The value of a forum is unique to the individual. I admit there are "jackholes" on every forum I've ever logged onto. Does that make the entire discussion invalid? Do we throw the baby out with the bathwater? Of course not.

    Granted, MTBR is not a vehicle for fund raising for specific causes (eg: disaster relief). There are better places to do that sort of thing. Try not to belittle everyone on this forum just because you're upset about someone's opinion.

    Your attitude seems to be contradictory to your desire. Do you want this forum to be more civil? Then don't call everyone a "jackhole". Do you want it to be more educated? Then try to offer an educated response. Not everyone here is an 18 year old, uneducated, dirt jumper. I would venture to say that most of the users here are are responsible educated adults with real jobs; doctors, nurses, engineers, lawyers. We have houses and families too. Do you think that only you are capable of empathy because you have a house in the woods?
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  176. #176
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    Yes, your discussion is invalid. Unless you think the USFS is gleaning their forest management advice from your MTBR posts then there is nothing "constructive" about discussing qualified risk or mitigation strategy here. It's just spouting useless drivel to feed an ego.

    I'd love to have you come down and explain the qualified risk to the husbands of the couple of families I helped evac last weekend.

    No, I don't give a rat's ass about your freedom of social media expression either. If you were there in person I'd simply slap you upside the head and tell you to have some fvcking respect.

    Time and place for everything. I fail to see how this is either.

  177. #177
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    I think the discussion here has been quite good. Enough said. I've been following this thread, mainly since it provides more readily available insight than some of the news media.

    I of course have thoughts on these fires. I'm frustrated that, at least I only perceive, emergency reaction as the only current course of action for managing wild fires. How can I put this without offending? It's frustrating to see all the resources put into knee jerk reaction to protect homes - INSTEAD OF managing the forests in the first place. I know it is easier and politically more acceptable to rush to the defense. And I have no disagreement, once we arrive at this point our only course of action is defense.

    I just wish there was more proactive emphasis on avoiding the huge infernos in the first place. I would volunteer, in fact a few days I sent an email to the USFS, let me know how I can assist in helping to avoid these catastrophic wild fires. I realize my help is a drop in the bucket, but I wonder if we would be surprised how many volunteers would step up to help manage the forests, given direction.

    I am ignorant. I don't know much about the cost of the current wildfire fight vs the cost of thinning, whatever ahead of time. I'm sure it is easier to justify resources for highly visible emergencies than it is for proactive cleansing of the forests. It's no different at my job, but at my job I also question how long can we sustain constantly fighting fires, rather than avoiding them with some up front work?

    I know there is proactive measures, like controlled burns. It just seems we are WAY behind and in no hurry to catch up to reality.

    Thanks for reading.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenbikesnob View Post
    Oh, Yeti_Chris. You are so dramatic:

    "Your and ASS HOLE for posting That !! And yes i will leave me Name Yeti_chris !!! you Fing tool !"

    A larger forest fire is burning in Mexico. Do you give a sh*t?
    A recent forest fire in California destroyed nearly 500 homes. Do you give a sh*t?

    The fact remains that forest fires are a "natural" phenomena. A process that MUST happen in order to keep a forest healthy and promote growth of sustainable vegetation. When you build an unnatural structure in a forest, you undertake the risks associated with that. It is not the responsibility of the general public, especially those that choose not to live in a fire zone, to pay for or provide protection from those natural elements. YOU can pay for insurance, but that is to replace or repair a damaged structure, not provide protection.

    I choose to live in such a natural area. I am surrounded by plenty of fuel. I know what will happen, and I am prepared for it.
    Are you new to the internet? You shouldn't get that worked up over an internet debate on a forum.
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  179. #179
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    better (higher resolution) satellite imagery from our local company.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails High Park Fire-highpark_fire.jpg  

    "Don't take life so serious, son . . . it ain't no how permanent." - Porky Pine

  180. #180
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    prove thump wrong - and validate this damn thread!

    In the spirit of making a difference, here are multiple ways you can help victims of the High Park wildfire. Besides direct donations, there are fun ways to indirectly donate too, like drinking BEER.

    Support displaced residents of the High Park fire with a donation to a local organization - Loveland Reporter-Herald

    I just donated to:
    www.coloradoredcross.org -- Northern Colorado Chapter

    Consider this a challenge to all you mountain bikers. Every little bit helps, even $5-10. For the cost of a pint, you could be clothing someone's baby or providing shelter until someone can get their bearings.

    Post up and let us know if you donated or plan to. Positive rep (and good karma) to those who do.
    Ok, here's the deal. I have a hangover. Who knows what that means?

  181. #181
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    ^^^ We are moving next week, and plan on donating all of the household and clothing items that we were going to sell at our yard sale. Don't know exactly how yet, but that's the game plan.

    (you can keep your rep, got plenty, but I will also rep those who donate for whatever nonsense thats worth )
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  182. #182
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    Great idea, man - I just ponied up some to the American Red Cross - N Col Chapter.

  183. #183
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    In case you missed it - I haven't seen it posted here - Oskar Blues locations are donating a dollar a beer this weekend for High Park fire evacuees. In case you needed an extra excuse to drink beer.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Great idea, man - I just ponied up some to the American Red Cross - N Col Chapter.
    +1

    Also going to give to the Animal Hospital that's taking care of displaced critters, but their setup for doing that is kind of jacked. I've written them suggesting that they set up a PayPal account.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  185. #185
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    Regardless of the debate surrounding forestry policy and the development of the urban/wilderness interface the forest fire fighters risk their lives to protect people's homes. Obviously many of them, perhaps most, are adventurous young male woodsmen. However, that cannot detract from the risk they place themselves in to protect the homes of people they do not even know. It makes me think of this song and the book "Young Men and Fire" which are based on the tragedy at Mann Gulch, Montana in 1949.

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  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenbikesnob View Post

    "Your and ASS HOLE for posting That !! you Fing tool !"

    A larger forest fire is burning in Mexico. Do you give a sh*t?
    That's what drunken posting does, I believe you meant "New Mexico"

    In any event it's only talk, bibble babble, bally who, diatribe, agreements arguments

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  187. #187
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    It sucks all the way around. For all parties. Both sides.

  188. #188
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    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  189. #189
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    181 homes burned.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  190. #190
    ..ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcrider View Post
    prove thump wrong - and validate this damn thread!
    .
    +1.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour View Post
    Regardless of the debate surrounding forestry policy and the development of the urban/wilderness interface the forest fire fighters risk their lives to protect people's homes. Obviously many of them, perhaps most, are adventurous young male woodsmen. However, that cannot detract from the risk they place themselves in to protect the homes of people they do not even know. It makes me think of this song and the book "Young Men and Fire" which are based on the tragedy at Mann Gulch, Montana in 1949.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CMJDj6L8y0E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    The forest fire fighters are a tough bunch. I wonder, though, what the incidence of lung disease is for them, as their exposure to smoke is horrendous. Probably a much shorter lifespan and probably no special insurance to cover them if they become sick later in years.

  192. #192
    skillz to pay billz
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    speaking from experience, the smoke and particulates were pretty bad in wildland firefighting but the real danger still comes from structure fires. Plastics, carpet, furniture and fire retardants all pose greater risks to FFers. Even with breathing apparatus the residual exposure from turn out gear after the fire is still dangerous.

  193. #193
    boxcar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokefork View Post
    The forest fire fighters are a tough bunch. I wonder, though, what the incidence of lung disease is for them, as their exposure to smoke is horrendous. Probably a much shorter lifespan and probably no special insurance to cover them if they become sick later in years.
    Yes they are. It seems, that seasonal firefighters have a hard time getting covered for insurance. The government does not allow them to buy into their health insurance program due to their jobs being "temporary."

    Do Your Part to Demand Health Benefits for Wildland Firefighters; Sign This Petition Today!

  194. #194
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    My best to those dealing with this horrific event.

    Sorry for your losses.

  195. #195
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    In anticipation of potential gusty winds predicted with the Red Flag warning issued for today, a new mandatory evacuation order has been issued for the Hewlett Gulch Subdivision. All residents should evacuate immediately. This evacuation includes:

    Hewlitt Gulch Road
    Swan
    Snow Cliff Road
    Deer Meadow Way
    Star View Drive
    Gobbler's Knob Court
    Happy Jack Road
    Sara Lane
    Mount Mahogany
    Rainbows End
    Weatherbird Way
    Red Tail Trail
    Gordon Creek Lane
    Wild Mountain Lane

    This area runs West from the Glacier View 9-12th Filings already evacuated, East to Hewlett Gulch Trail, North to Highway 74E (Redfeather Lakes Road) and south to Highway 14 (Poudre Canyon Rd).96 notices have been sent out regarding this new evacuation. Residents should also be advised to use caution while driving because of heavy smoke in the area.
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn.skratch View Post
    Yes they are. It seems, that seasonal firefighters have a hard time getting covered for insurance. The government does not allow them to buy into their health insurance program due to their jobs being "temporary."

    Do Your Part to Demand Health Benefits for Wildland Firefighters; Sign This Petition Today!
    I signed this also. Doesn't it seem like we could make them permanent employees to work on fire mitigation in the off season (as weather allows) and get them full insurance and benefits?

  197. #197
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    Donated to Red Cross, N Colorado chapter.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny boy View Post
    I signed this also. Doesn't it seem like we could make them permanent employees to work on fire mitigation in the off season (as weather allows) and get them full insurance and benefits?
    I won't speak for them but a lot have other winter/seasonal jobs such as ski patrol, etc. or they collect funemployment and do whatever they want. Also, where they work in the summer is generally not where they live since they get moved around for fire season. I think you'd be hard pressed to get them to move to some place like where the NM fire is full time for example.

  199. #199
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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A_sY2rjxq6M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  200. #200
    "Oldfart from Wayback"
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    It Ain't Over 'till the Fat Lady Sings !

    One week after the huge blow up last Sunday, I took these this evening.














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