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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Have you seen this man?

    WANTED
    for reckless disregard for suspension and gearing:

    ed.jpg

    ed, ed, ed. you are an animal.

    those of you who've ridden south saint vrain from the top, you know how technical parts of it are (rocks & more rocks, w/ some steep little drops scattered about... w/ rocks!).

    granted i'm no downhill guru by any means, but as i was chasing icegeek down the trail (w/ a smile on my face thanks to my new 5" travel fork ), i couldn't help but feel that i was slowing down ed, who was right behind nickle & me on his trusty ol' rigid singlespeed.

    D'OH!

    i'm not worthy.
    -
    .And following our will and wind . . .
    . . .We'll ride the spiral to the end
    and may just go where no one's been.

  2. #2
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    Bike is bouncing and Ed is steady.... he clearly needs a beer.

    Sounds like a blast, I need to go do this trail... and chase ED and ICE!

  3. #3
    post-ride specialist
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    Ed is not right, that all I'll say about that.



    Well, OK, maybe I'll say this: Ed, duude, talk about a cheater line. No wonder that trail is so wide...
    Last edited by icegeek; 07-01-2007 at 10:38 PM.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  4. #4
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    That's good stuff there.

  5. #5
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitchenware
    That's good stuff there.
    when do you think you'll have that new bikey built up and ready to ride up there, eh?
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    when do you think you'll have that new bikey built up and ready to ride up there, eh?
    I'm with him, I really dig the rigid ss up there. But... squishy bike should be rolling next week or if all of the planets allign, end o this week. I have every single part coming except tires.

  7. #7
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    We all know Ed's a freak, mmmmmK??
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  8. #8
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    Ed is super-human... He should ride with a big effin S on his chest!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    ... as i was chasing icegeek down the trail (w/ a smile on my face thanks to my new 5" travel fork )...
    ...ah yes, the inner smile

    Ed
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Well, OK, maybe I'll say this: Ed, duude, talk about a cheater line. No wonder that trail is so wide...
    Uh-huh...

    Ed
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  11. #11
    rr
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    I thought you guys said this trail was technical?

    Sorry I missed, altho I think I would prefer a small group for my inagural SSV ride, unfortunately I'm off the bike thru next week so my wrist will heal fully, had to bail at the last minute after a very painful Thurs ride, no broken bones but tendon/ligament damage

    athallia- glad your doing well, that is scary stuff.

  12. #12
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Uh-huh...

    Ed
    That looks like G's old POS. I thought he had a new POS now?
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  13. #13
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Ed is not right, that all I'll say about that.



    Well, OK, maybe I'll say this: Ed, duude, talk about a cheater line. No wonder that trail is so wide...
    A Pace CF death fork isn't enough, he has to put a little extra death-on-the-side by using the disc brake model? Ed is a lot braver than I am.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  14. #14
    Now with 20% more fat!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    That looks like G's old POS. I thought he had a new POS now?
    IG told me that he wasn't man enough to ride the AS-X up Sourdough!! Of course, I'm barely man enough to ride my 575 up Sourdough, so I'll shut up now...

  15. #15
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    I thought you guys said this trail was technical?
    ...

    We just said it was technical to scare away the sallies.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  16. #16
    Really I am that slow
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    It's gotta be the hoopty

    only way I can explain it
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  17. #17
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    Personally, I think the rigid is easier to ride up there than sprung.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Personally, I think the rigid is easier to ride up there than sprung.


    i rode my rigid up there the week before and my wrists were on fire by the time i was done...
    (course i don't have the fancy-shmancy carbon fork, or that blingy hopey steering dampener thingy).

    who am i kidding... give me the plush.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    A Pace CF death fork isn't enough, he has to put a little extra death-on-the-side by using the disc brake model? Ed is a lot braver than I am.
    ...and a CF bar that just replaced an aluminum one!

    Sheesh, don't curse me, I've ** edit - cracked ** two steel forks. I had lots of trepidation getting that fork over a year ago. So far it's been a stellar performer and I couldn't be happier but I've heard and read all about the dangers of CF failing catastrophically.

    I know you are not a fan of CF. You say "death fork", any actual experience or second hand info on frequency of failure of Pace forks specifically?

    Unfortunately for me the overall best solution to resolve fork failure issues is to go to a suspension fork. A rigid fork, no matter what material used is inherently more fragile I suspect.

    Ed
    Last edited by edemtbs; 07-02-2007 at 12:41 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt


    i rode my rigid up there the week before and my wrists were on fire by the time i was done...
    (course i don't have the fancy-shmancy carbon fork, or that blingy hopey steering dampener thingy).

    who am i kidding... give me the plush.
    I got to admit that I just rode from Raymond>Beaver Res>Coney Flats>BTP>Camp Dick and my arms and wrists were about as tired as I can remember. I did a small ride last night and needless to say I was quite worked over at the end...
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  21. #21
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    ...and a CF bar that just replaced an aluminum one!

    Sheesh, don't curse me, I've broken two steel forks. I had lots of trepidation getting that fork over a year ago. So far it's been a stellar performer and I couldn't be happier but I've heard and read all about the dangers of CF failing catastrophically.

    I know you are not a fan of CF. You say "death fork", any actual experience or second hand info on frequency of failure of Pace forks specifically?

    Unfortunately for me the overall best solution to resolve fork failure issues is to go to a suspension fork. A rigid fork, no matter what material used is inherently more fragile I suspect.

    Ed
    Do a search on MTBR for the Pace CF rigid forks, Ed, there used to be some pretty scary pics of breaks. This stuff gets redesigned often, even during production runs, so maybe it's all been addressed.

    To set the record straight, I don't hate carbon, I just don't think it's the right tool for the job on MTB components that are "life" critical: forks, stems, handlebars, steerer tubes. CF seatposts and such don't bother me, it might hurt you, but it probably won't put you in the litter. Notch toughness is a big deal on MTB's since we're always crashing & bashing them and notch toughness isn't a strong point of CF. Once you've penetrated the resin and cut into the fibers, it's just a matter of time.

    I've said it lots of time, any material can break, but it's the failure mode that's important. A crack doesn't scare me. Shearing off scares me. If you're breaking steel forks, those forks were built too light for your riding style (a problem when you try to compete weight-wise when building with steel) or had inherent design/manufacturing flaws. With ti, you have to be very careful with the design and manufacturing. Ti is a super cool material, but it is VERY unforgiving of poor design/technique/manufacturing. You're buds with KE, give him a yell and have him hook you up with Steve Potts for a killer Type II for your bike...and get rid of that CF handlebar!
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  22. #22
    e-misanthrope
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    To set the record straight, I don't hate carbon, Josh does

    I thought you were going to tell him about the guy being airlifted out of IC after his carbon bars broke 3 weeks ago.

    The mental weight penalty is more than enough to scare me away from carbon - I'm downright afraid of the stuff.
    Don't waive your rights with your flags.

  23. #23
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by lagarto grande
    I thought you were going to tell him about the guy being airlifted out of IC after his carbon bars broke 3 weeks ago.

    The mental weight penalty is more than enough to scare me away from carbon - I'm downright afraid of the stuff.
    Shhhhh! I'm trying to lure xcguy out of the bushes with my moderate viewpoints. He's very skittish so don't make any sudden moves or loud noises.....
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  24. #24
    e-misanthrope
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Shhhhh!
    Carbon fiber not only possesses an incredible strength to weight ratio, but tastes nice and looks shiny as well.
    Don't waive your rights with your flags.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lagarto grande
    I thought you were going to tell him about the guy being airlifted out of IC after his carbon bars broke 3 weeks ago.
    I read about that, I cringed! Scary.

    Ed

  26. #26
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by lagarto grande
    Carbon fiber not only possesses an incredible strength to weight ratio, but tastes nice and looks shiny as well.
    Good job! I hear some rustling in the currently active viewers......
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Do a search on MTBR for the Pace CF rigid forks, Ed, there used to be some pretty scary pics of breaks. This stuff gets redesigned often, even during production runs, so maybe it's all been addressed.

    To set the record straight, I don't hate carbon, I just don't think it's the right tool for the job on MTB components that are "life" critical: forks, stems, handlebars, steerer tubes. CF seatposts and such don't bother me, it might hurt you, but it probably won't put you in the litter. Notch toughness is a big deal on MTB's since we're always crashing & bashing them and notch toughness isn't a strong point of CF. Once you've penetrated the resin and cut into the fibers, it's just a matter of time.

    I've said it lots of time, any material can break, but it's the failure mode that's important. A crack doesn't scare me. Shearing off scares me. If you're breaking steel forks, those forks were built too light for your riding style (a problem when you try to compete weight-wise when building with steel) or had inherent design/manufacturing flaws. With ti, you have to be very careful with the design and manufacturing. Ti is a super cool material, but it is VERY unforgiving of poor design/technique/manufacturing. You're buds with KE, give him a yell and have him hook you up with Steve Potts for a killer Type II for your bike...and get rid of that CF handlebar!
    I have done searches a few times and never found too much. I found this and one other picture of a failure. Interestingly that picture shows the failure on the disc brake side just as you hinted. Rainman talked about a "click" he was getting in the crown/fork interface and he set the fork aside as a precaution but it wasn't conclusive it was actually broken. Most reports I've found have been complimentary of Pace forks. In fact I did a lot of research before I got that Pace because I swore a CF fork was a stupid idea

    I should have said "cracked" by the way (I'll edit my post). The steel forks cracked and held, they did not catastrophically fail or shear.

    I've seen scary pics of Ti fork breakage! But like you suggest perhaps they were poorly manufactured. In any case taking all things into consideration including my riding style I will ONCE AGAIN reconsider the CF issue, I've gone back and forth so many times on this one.

    Ed

  28. #28
    3nf
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Unfortunately for me the overall best solution to resolve fork failure issues is to go to a suspension fork. A rigid fork, no matter what material used is inherently more fragile I suspect.
    I should weigh my old Rockhopper's fork- the bike weighs 25lbs as a singlespeed with mostly modern components. The fork has taken a couple of decades () of insults now. The steerer tube where the legs attach is roughly 1/4" thick cromoly.

  29. #29
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    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3nf
    The steerer tube where the legs attach is roughly 1/4" thick cromoly.
    If you can't over engineer, then overkill!
    Sorry what?

  30. #30
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    Don't listen to 'em big Ed - they're just tryin' to put a scare in ya, to slow ya down. As if...

    But seriously, the advice from DWF is sound, especially his warning regarding notch toughness of carbon fiber (basically, it has none once you compromise the integrity of the composite). When I sprung for my dream bike a few years ago, I picked a non-butted ti frame from a quality builder w/ ti handlebar, stem, and seatpost for a reason. Definitely check for cracks or gouges before each ride, and get your self a metal fork (ti or steel) and a ti handlebar if you start feeling too paranoid. I've seen you ride, you're no XC weenie, you ride like a man! Carbon fiber ain't no structural material for a man!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Ed is not right, that all I'll say about that.



    Well, OK, maybe I'll say this: Ed, duude, talk about a cheater line. No wonder that trail is so wide...
    Can you imagine having to work with Eddy.
    Craig, Durango CO
    "Lighten up PAL" ... King Cage

  32. #32
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    It is a hardship, Craig, as you well know - at least you get to work remotely, I'm about 50 ft. from him.

  33. #33
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    rigid + singlespeed + downhill

    that must be the best recipe for arthritis and joint failure i've ever seen, congrats

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    rigid + singlespeed + downhill

    that must be the best recipe for arthritis and joint failure i've ever seen, congrats
    Oh Sally, you're still stuck on the whole SS thing huh??
    Actually it goes like this;
    rigid + singlespeed + downhill = the time of your life!!...29er into the mix...even better!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  35. #35
    Really I am that slow
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    rigid + singlespeed + downhill

    that must be the best recipe for arthritis and joint failure i've ever seen, congrats
    you have any proof of that?

    I wouldn't use any of those terms to describe Ed
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    rigid + singlespeed + downhill

    that must be the best recipe for arthritis and joint failure i've ever seen, congrats

    I'm no doctor and you probably aren't either... But it sure makes you go fast on the 'other' bike and makes boring trails fun.

  37. #37
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    rigid + singlespeed + downhill

    that must be the best recipe for arthritis and joint failure i've ever seen, congrats
    You are clueless, as usual.

    (even though i'm no longer riding a full rigid or SS bike.)
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  38. #38
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by kitchenware
    But it sure makes you go fast on the 'other' bike and makes boring trails fun.

    I just did Kenosha on a geared HT w/ front suspension, hell all I could think of all day was that it felt like I was cheating it was so easy.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  39. #39
    formerly shabadu
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    Regarding CF and damage. Keep in mind that the "carbon fiber" we see on the outside, underneath the clear coat is a cosmetic and protective layer that really has no strength/load bearing responsibilities.
    If its deep, thats another issue, but scratches that get through the clear coat are not necessarily the death knell for that component.
    That said, carbon fiber mtn forks (especially rigid) scare the crap out of me.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    You are clueless, as usual.

    (even though i'm no longer riding a full rigid or SS bike.)

    yea, i'm sure those joints, tendons, and ligaments just love the jarring hits and constant abuse due to taking the brunt of the punishment. it's puts hair on your chest, or something, right?

    enjoy riding that motorized round-a-bout thingy you see them peddling to seniors on tv, it looks like fun especially at the full 2mph

  41. #41
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    yea, i'm sure those joints, tendons, and ligaments just love the jarring hits and constant abuse due to taking the brunt of the punishment. it's puts hair on your chest, or something, right?

    enjoy riding that motorized round-a-bout thingy you see them peddling to seniors on tv, it looks like fun especially at the full 2mph
    you really sound like someone who has no idea about picking a line through a trail.

    fat tires + picking a line + being loose on the bike can do a lot. a small bike that is easy to throw around under me, and slack angles make a huge difference as well, at least for me.

    i never said anything about it being more manly or whatever to ride rigid. as i pointed out i'm also not on a fully rigid bike any more. but from what i've seen of your past posts, reading comprehension isn't really your strength anyway.

    or maybe you're just a wuss?
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    you really sound like someone who has no idea about picking a line through a trail.

    fat tires + picking a line + being loose on the bike can do a lot. a small bike that is easy to throw around under me, and slack angles make a huge difference as well, at least for me.

    i never said anything about it being more manly or whatever to ride rigid. as i pointed out i'm also not on a fully rigid bike any more. but from what i've seen of your past posts, reading comprehension isn't really your strength anyway.

    or maybe you're just a wuss?
    you can pick a line just as easily on a bike with suspension as you can on a fully rigid bike, that's not really the point. the point is that on a typical downhill course you're getting way more banged up on a rigid bike, enough so that your body takes significant punishment. over time it will take it's toll, i don't care how good you are or how smooth you think you're running.

    if i'm a wuss for choosing a FS over a rigid bike, and wanting to preserve my body so i can ride for a long long time, then so be it

  43. #43
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    Feed the troll, feed the troll...Here Sally, come sally, heeree sally...
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

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