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  1. #1
    Blargh
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    Is courtesy dead? Picture Rock related

    I just rode Picture Rock today. Gosh I hope that trail becomes less crowded over time! While everyone on the trail was pretty good about yielding appropriately, as I was heading down I was really struck by how many people riding up did not so much as wheeze out a "thanks" as they rode by. Pretty much any time someone is yielding to me, whether it be because they're supposed to because I'm headed uphill, or because they're walking and letting me by, or whatever, I always say hi or thanks or both.

    Is it too much to ask people to acknowledge that someone happily cruising downhill has put on the brakes and pulled over so you can climb? Or does the fact that I'm doing what the rules say I should do negate the need for courtesy? Or am I just an old fuddy duddy?

    It didn't really piss me off, I had a great day of riding and lots of people were very friendly, but my buddy and I did both comment on how many people didn't say anything as they went past us.

  2. #2
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandbagger
    Or am I just an old fuddy duddy?
    .
    I think you nailed it.

    For you to post about seems to indicate it bothered you long after the ride. Despite what you said, it really appears that is did piss you off--and still does.

    You seemed to overall be happy with the ride so be happy and don't demand others to acknowledge your yield gesture.

    It won't get all that less crowded but it will get wider.

    Glad you like the trail though. It's fun.

  3. #3
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    Well it pissed off enough to post. There are always going to "those few" and I think you just have to accept it. I definitely wouldn't expect a thanks from everyone when on a trail as busy as that. Do you wave to everyone down hwy 36? It is what it is and there are other things to worry about.

    Peace
    Rub n Tiz'zug

  4. #4
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    If you get that pissed off at people not being courteous to you then ride somewhere where there aren't people. Maybe they were in a zone, stoned, any one of a number of things.

    Glad you yielded but that's what you're supposed to do. There is no IMBA "thanks" rule.

  5. #5
    Blargh
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    Sheesh, folks, it's the internet, the place where we post useless drivel. It was just something my buddy and I commented on. It did not piss me off and it did not bother me long enough after the ride to post, it was just something I thought was interesting and wondered what other people thought. Sorry to actually wonder about that, it won't happen again.

    I had a great day riding, and I didn't demand anything from anyone. Guess I'll go back to posting elsewhere, never mind.

  6. #6
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by papawheelie
    . Do you wave to everyone down hwy 36?
    All the Harley folk do!

    I'm always thinking they are doing a left turn to nowhere.

  7. #7
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandbagger
    Sheesh, folks, it's the internet, the place where we post useless drivel. It was just something my buddy and I commented on. It did not piss me off and it did not bother me long enough after the ride to post, it was just something I thought was interesting and wondered what other people thought. Sorry to actually wonder about that, it won't happen again.
    LOL....ironically the one taking it all to seriously...

    I think that is the point of the replies....you are TOO serious....Please don't keep proving it to us.

    howabout some more LOLs or LMAOs to lighen ya up a bit.

    (I can see your buddy going in the background "Damn, I'm glad I didn't post that on mtbr.com!" )

  8. #8
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    When I am driving and stop at a stop sign I expect everyone else to roll down their windows and yell THANKS....

    It is nice when people thank you for yielding. I usually do, sometimes I don't. To expect a thanks for simply doing something you are supposed to do is unreasonable.

  9. #9
    Blargh
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    LOL....ironically the one taking it all to seriously...

    I think that is the point of the replies....you are TOO serious....Please don't keep proving it to us.

    howabout some more LOLs or LMAOs to lighen ya up a bit.
    I apologize, I forgot the internet is serious business. Carry on, you obviously have me pegged.

  10. #10
    This is how it started...
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    Ride Hall. It is much less crowed that it used to be, thanks to PR.
    But to your point, I have noticed that users are much less considerate than when it first opened. I rode Hall and PR Wednesday afternoon and only one out of the dozen or so riders coming down actually did yield....or say hi after my initiating the salutation.
    I always try to keep a positive attitude and say 'hi' when riding.
    Don't worry....be happy!
    Life is about the ride.

  11. #11
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    Sandbagger, don't stress about the posts here...

    I been riding the trails all over within last 15 years and you are absolutely right. Riders, not all, here in Colorado seem less friendlier than else where. It is ironic that riders in Chicago and Los Angeles are much more friendlier than here..funny, you would think otherwise. Constitution grants us the right to be stupid and rude but it doesn't hurt to be nice and civil to each other, especially on the trail and within mtb community. S, don't let the others discourage you man, be nice out there...

  12. #12
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    I generally think it's nice when people acknowledge you for slowing down and following the rules while they're climbing. I also usually say hi and am friendly to others out on the trails and expect the same. I don't demand it but it is nice and makes for better riding community. I've managed to plan my rides around crowds for the most part but I was at PR for opening day and that was fun. Only went back once about one month ago on a Monday and didn't see too many people. For the most part everyone I've seen on the trails this season have been pretty cool and courteous.

  13. #13
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    next time i am just going to scream at the top of my lungs "THANKS FOR F@CKING YIELDING"

    give a few toots of the boat horn and hand out god damn balloon animals...

    there is your god damn praise..

    LOOK AT ME I AM YIELDING>> YIPPIDIY F"N DOO DAAAAA
    been on the same fsr expert frame since new in 99. Ride because you love it, not to be a trendy a$$hole.

  14. #14
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    I'm not trying to say I say hi to everyone single person I see on the trail. I'm just generally pretty courteous and don't seem to have many "issues" on the trails for the most part.

  15. #15
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    I always try to say hi or thanks to everyone on the trail, but if they dont say nothing, oh well. Maybe they were in the zone, so far out of the zone they are hating life, held to little as a child, held to much as a child, I could go on and on...
    Just circles turning circles....

  16. #16
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    As long as people yield and follow the rules, I'm not concerned if they act like my BFF. I rode Picture Rock yesterday and was more shocked by how many people rode off trail instead of yielding.
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  17. #17
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    Hey folks, I don't think sandbagger is listening anymore so you all can quit now. I agree with what he says, of course riders are not obligated to recognize yielding, but being friendly never hurt anyone.

  18. #18
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    Speaking for myself, after I have passed the 50th person or somewhere in that number I get a little tired of saying thanks and hello to every single person I pass especially when there are lines and lines of groups riding up or down that trail. It's nice to get in a zone going up or down sometimes. I am avoiding PR until the weather gets bad though because the crowds are thick on that trail right now.

  19. #19
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    A little courtesy and friendliness goes a long way...or you can be like many of the people who post here.

  20. #20
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    Is courtesy dead?

    yes.

  21. #21
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    Wow, crowded trails in great weather in late fall in the Front Range! What?

    I think pretty soon the internet forums will be filled with rants everytime a cyclist doesn't wave back at you on the road. Oh wait, they are already.

    Complains about listening to music while riding? Yep, plenty of posts about that too.

    Want less crowds? Get a light and hit the trail at 3-4pm. It'll be just you and the animals out there.

    Crybabys

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter
    A little courtesy and friendliness goes a long way...or you can be like many of the people who post here.

    I always thank someone for yielding properly, it happens so infrequently it's not all that hard to do.
    Last edited by jugdish; 11-24-2008 at 09:58 AM.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  23. #23
    Moosehead
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    +1 to sending greetings or thanks to all on trail, espec as MTBR's. don't be discouraged sandbagger, there's way too many energy drinks consumed on this board.

    yea, it is numbing to say hello and thanks once passing the 12th person in a 1/4 mile logjam, but being friendly is more valuable at those times. no one wants a syrupy sweet and overly gratuitous mtbr community - but common courtesy is critical to our growing needs for trail access and acceptance. there is also that golden rule thingy.

    it is also noticeable that many hikers or uphill bikers will yield to the downhill biker, perhaps out of self preservation if not thoughtfulness. even in those cases it pays to make the effort to yield and let them know they have ROW, let alone say thanks.

    happy turkeyday all. yea, i said it.
    Last edited by moosehead; 11-24-2008 at 10:33 AM.

  24. #24
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    Sandbagger:

    You have unfortunately run into a notorious poster on mtbr.com who has a very proprietary attitude about the internet -- he thinks he controls it and has appointed himself the Grand Vizier and Poo-Bah of the Front Range forum. His generally unhelpful and frequently gratuitously snide comments are to be found littered throughout this forum. It's best just to ignore this person's comments and not respond to them.

    As for your comments regarding Picture Rock and the behavior of some riders, all you can realistically hope for is that your example of yielding to uphill bikers will be contagious. Keep up the good work and attitude while on the trails.

  25. #25
    Stiff yet compliant
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundraline
    Sandbagger:
    You have unfortunately run into a notorious poster on mtbr.com who has a very proprietary attitude about the internet -- he thinks he controls it and has appointed himself the Grand Vizier and Poo-Bah of the Front Range forum. His generally unhelpful and frequently gratuitously snide comments are to be found littered throughout this forum. It's best just to ignore this person's comments and not respond to them.
    SkaredShtles hasn't even posted in this thread.

  26. #26
    friend of Apex
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    WOW, winter is setting in allready...
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  27. #27
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    Here, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by elee325
    I been riding the trails all over within last 15 years and you are absolutely right. Riders, not all, here in Colorado seem less friendlier than else where. ....:
    It's not all of Colorado, it's the Front Range. I think there are just too many recreators per mile of trail.

    I'm used to seeing fewer people on the trail elsewhere but still think a greeting is nice. I guess I shouldn't expect a response but can't reconcile having someone say hello to me and ignoring them. It seem wrong.
    2 wheels

  28. #28
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    Wave, you prick

    I picked up a copy of Bike magazine at the airport earlier this month, and it had an editorial titled, "Wave, you prick (It might be the start of something huge)"

    For the past couple of years, the author performed an experiment where he waved at and greeted everyone (equestrians, hikers, etc.) he encountered while out riding. He found that cyclists were less likely to wave or respond than any others. He talked about how non-cyclists were friendly to him when greeted even if he was riding in a place he shouldn't have been. And he made the point that the future of mountain biking could be improved if we just take a few seconds of our time and be friendly to other trail users.

    I have had the same experience while mountain biking. I try to say hello to everyone I see and thank people (hikers, bikers, etc.) that are yielding me the trail. Most of the hikers say hello and many seem pleasantly surprised that I am greeting them. But many of the bikers just blow by without acknowledgment. One nice fall day while out riding Kenosha to Georgia Pass with a friend, we stopped and yielded the trail to a family with small children out for a hike. The father walked up to me and asked to shake my hand. He said we were the first mountain bikers so far that day that had stopped for them. (And there were a lot of bikers out that day.)

    That is just sad. We are our own worst enemy. Courtesy to other trail users is very important to the future of mountain biking. And if we can't even be friendly to other mountain bikers, what does that say about our future?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy m
    I picked up a copy of Bike magazine at the airport earlier this month, and it had an editorial titled, "Wave, you prick (It might be the start of something huge)"

    For the past couple of years, the author performed an experiment where he waved at and greeted everyone (equestrians, hikers, etc.) he encountered while out riding. He found that cyclists were less likely to wave or respond than any others. He talked about how non-cyclists were friendly to him when greeted even if he was riding in a place he shouldn't have been. And he made the point that the future of mountain biking could be improved if we just take a few seconds of our time and be friendly to other trail users.

    I have had the same experience while mountain biking. I try to say hello to everyone I see and thank people (hikers, bikers, etc.) that are yielding me the trail. Most of the hikers say hello and many seem pleasantly surprised that I am greeting them. But many of the bikers just blow by without acknowledgment. One nice fall day while out riding Kenosha to Georgia Pass with a friend, we stopped and yielded the trail to a family with small children out for a hike. The father walked up to me and asked to shake my hand. He said we were the first mountain bikers so far that day that had stopped for them. (And there were a lot of bikers out that day.)

    That is just sad. We are our own worst enemy. Courtesy to other trail users is very important to the future of mountain biking. And if we can't even be friendly to other mountain bikers, what does that say about our future?
    These are all very good points, and really get to the heart of the matter, which is whether we as mountain bikers are willing to accept responsibility for our actions and behaviour while out on the trails. In my experience, something like 95% of mountain bikers follow the rules of trail etiquette (which everyone knows). The problem is the 5% who believe the rules are for everyone else and not for them, and who screw it up for everyone else. This is where peer pressure can play a constructive role. Talk to people on the trails who don't follow the rules and call them out in as non-confrontational and constructive manner as possible. Most of them will come around (eventually).

  30. #30
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy m
    I picked up a copy of Bike magazine at the airport earlier this month, and it had an editorial titled, "Wave, you prick (It might be the start of something huge)"
    What if I say "hi" and "thanks" quietly to non-bikers but just give the "wud up" nod to cyclists? Is that enough, oh wise and noble sage of trail ettiquette?
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabs
    What if I say "hi" and "thanks" quietly to non-bikers but just give the "wud up" nod to cyclists? Is that enough, oh wise and noble sage of trail ettiquette?
    Your on-line persona would appear to illustrate where the "inter-personal" problems on our trails originate.

  32. #32
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    gapers never "come around"

    true story..
    been on the same fsr expert frame since new in 99. Ride because you love it, not to be a trendy a$$hole.

  33. #33
    Moosehead
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    Be Nice

    Quote Originally Posted by meat-market
    gapers never "come around"
    no, actually they do, particularly if they are fortunate enough to benefit from the following trail conditions
    Attached Images Attached Images

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokefork
    Hey folks, I don't think sandbagger is listening anymore so you all can quit now. I agree with what he says, of course riders are not obligated to recognize yielding, but being friendly never hurt anyone.
    On Boulder County Open Space (e.g., Hall Ranch, Picture Rock, Heil Ranch, etc.) it is the law that downhill bikers must yield to everyone, including uphill bikers. Yielding is therefore not optional, but mandatory.

  35. #35
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundraline
    Your on-line persona would appear to illustrate where the "inter-personal" problems on our trails originate.
    "Hi!" Say, that was a well-written sentence. Well played. "Have a nice day." How's that?
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  36. #36
    old enough to know better
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    Nice, amigo!

    "Thanks." (with a what up head nod).

  37. #37
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    come around meaning "come to their senses" and yeild the right of way..

    but i guess you are too dense to pick up internet sarcasm..

    c@ck smoker
    been on the same fsr expert frame since new in 99. Ride because you love it, not to be a trendy a$$hole.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabs
    "Hi!" Say, that was a well-written sentence. Well played. "Have a nice day." How's that?
    It's the shizzle.

  39. #39
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    A little courtesy to the brotherhood

    Hey I hear you, not so concerned about not getting a whats up on the trail.. shoot, I see guys in the parking lot at the end/ beginning of a ride and I give them a whats up, and they don't even try to look up, say hey or whatever.
    I ride everything from old school hard tails to dirt jumpers,full suspension, most I've pieced together my self.
    I notice the guys riding $5grand bikes seem to have a hard time acknoledging riders on what they percieve as junk.
    Get over yourself, were all out playing on our toys!
    On the other hand I like when the hikers get out of my way,, even when they know they don't have to, always give them a big thanks.
    Although they are probobly just worried about getting run over peace

  40. #40
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    u know, i say thank you to everyone who does yield, and 7 out of ten times i yield to dh traffic, just because of the "flow" factor for the other rider..

    i don't mind it one bit, what i have a problem with are self entitled hikers who basically call you everything but a mountain biker when yielding to them... I've said it before and I will say it again..

    We are all on the same team, being outdoors people, others just chose what vehicle takes them to their "happy place" whether it be a pair of hiking shoes, or clip-less shoes..

    If some @ss catches me in the wrong mood one day though, I fret I will explode with very harsh words, and lots of spitting when yelling...
    been on the same fsr expert frame since new in 99. Ride because you love it, not to be a trendy a$$hole.

  41. #41
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    Sounds to me like the usual Hall crowd is now at PR. Not a whole lot of smiling faces or small gestures to indicate your existence going on in that crowd. Avoid it at peak times, or just get used to it. Or choose to ride above it all. I don't think it doesn't mean they aren't yielding appropriately, they just come of jerk-ish. Whatevs. Eff em if they don't want to have any fun.
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  42. #42
    zrm
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    I was down at Buffalo Creek last week and I yielded to all climbers and the vast majority said thanks and let me know if there was anyone behind them. Everyone one descending yielded to me while I was climbing and I said thanks and most of them responded with a "no worries" or similar reply.

    I wouldn't have gotten too worked up about it if nobody said anything as long as they yielded though.

  43. #43
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    Yeah, but that is Buffalo Creek. In general, nicer people ride there.

  44. #44
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    Courtesy is contagious. Or at least it should be.
    Redstone Cyclery
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  45. #45
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    Remember, this is Boulder we are speaking of. My experience is that Boulder is populated by a lot of self-righteous yuppy pricks with an inflated sense of entitlement. This applies to roads, trails, parking spots or anything else that requires cooperation with other people. If my car/bike is more expensive, I am better than you. Move it, peon.
    Tequila tonight, tomorrow we ride!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Train
    Remember, this is Boulder we are speaking of. My experience is that Boulder is populated by a lot of self-righteous yuppy pricks with an inflated sense of entitlement. This applies to roads, trails, parking spots or anything else that requires cooperation with other people. If my car/bike is more expensive, I am better than you. Move it, peon.
    actually genius, we aren't talking about Boulder, we are talking about the Picture Rock Trail, one end of which starts IN Lyons, the other end is over 8 miles from Boulder (the smartest town in America, but that's not really saying much is it when we just have to beat the likes of yourself). Is Apex in Boulder?...it's only 18miles away! What about 401, Monarch Crest?

    Boulder has cool people and douches just like everywhere on the planet, just like the place you live, which category do you fit into?

    My 97 Camry was free and I'm still better than you!

  47. #47
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    I was jogging downhill on a trail one time and moved to the climbing rider's right to give him a smoother part of the trail to climb on. He growled at me to stay on the right. When I laughed my butt off explaining to him that I was yielding the better part of the trail to him he was more incensed and got off his bike and I thought he was coming at me.

    Lesson learned by jogger (me):
    • All mountain bikers are probably a$$holes.
    • Said a$$holes probably want the more difficult part of the trail (quite possible).
    • NEVER assume a$$hole bikers will recognize jogger's attempt at courtesy.
    • ALWAYS assume A$$hole bikers are so intense and hung up on themselves that they will rarely/never make an attempt to be courteous (see MTBR.com for further confirmation).
    • Write letters to senators, open space managers, local newspaper etc requesting the banning of bikes on trails I might choose to jog on.
    • Encourage a$$hole bikers to continue to make as little attempt at courtesy as possible so I can jog in peace when they are finally off the trails for good.


  48. #48
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    and what about those a$h0le joggers that run in the bike lane? just waiting to get hit to file a lawsuit and buy yourself some really short shorts with slits up the side? Get on the sidewalk Forrest.

  49. #49
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    Well played Rmac.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by longman
    actually genius, we aren't talking about Boulder, we are talking about the Picture Rock Trail, one end of which starts IN Lyons, the other end is over 8 miles from Boulder (the smartest town in America, but that's not really saying much is it when we just have to beat the likes of yourself). Is Apex in Boulder?...it's only 18miles away! What about 401, Monarch Crest?

    Boulder has cool people and douches just like everywhere on the planet, just like the place you live, which category do you fit into?

    My 97 Camry was free and I'm still better than you!
    Wow. I live in Boulder and couldn't have agreed more with M-Train. in fact, when I read his comment the first time I thought he was plagiarizing me. Don't assume he's talking about you personally, Boulderite.

    You don't happen to ride an orange Niner One9, do you?

  51. #51
    giddy up
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    WOW, winter is setting in allready...

    Doc Holliday rules. "I'm you're Huckleberry"

    Good thing we don't run into him on Picture Rock. It would be game over if you didn't say Hi to him.
    Rub n Tiz'zug

  52. #52
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    You don't happen to ride an orange Niner One9, do you?[/QUOTE]


  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash
    You don't happen to ride an orange Niner One9, do you?
    [/quote]

    And wear a RockyMounts jersey?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by perioeci
    And wear a RockyMounts jersey?[/QUOTE]

    Nope. Had me anticipating some crazy feedback. I'm ridiculously courteous BTW.

  55. #55
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    I tend to say hi and thank everyone when there aren't many people out. But when I make the mistake of hitting a crowded trail I tend to tune out. Except the cute ones for some reason. Oh I know dirty ole man.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by elee325
    I been riding the trails all over within last 15 years and you are absolutely right. Riders, not all, here in Colorado seem less friendlier than else where. It is ironic that riders in Chicago and Los Angeles are much more friendlier than here..funny, you would think otherwise. Constitution grants us the right to be stupid and rude but it doesn't hurt to be nice and civil to each other, especially on the trail and within mtb community. S, don't let the others discourage you man, be nice out there...
    Sandbagger, I agree with you and elee's comments. It is unreal that when out on a trail, with other people that are participating in the same activites as you don't have the common courtesy to say a simple hello or thank you.

    After moving back to the Black Hills of South Dakota, when I have run into people on the trails, a "hi" "wazup" etc. have been given to me and reciprocated by everyone I've run into. Not too hard...

  57. #57
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    Runners are the worst

    +1 to Longman's comments. Trail runners are the worst. These are oblivious, zoned out, self-righteous fools willing to run over kids and families. Talk about trail users who should be banned. Further, what do they contribute? Nada. Bikers built Picture Rock, runners are just lucky it's there.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash
    You don't happen to ride an orange Niner One9, do you?
    [/QUOTE]

    me? no, must be another douche you are thinking of, there's lots of us in Boulder

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter
    +1 to Longman's comments. Trail runners are the worst. These are oblivious, zoned out, self-righteous fools willing to run over kids and families. Talk about trail users who should be banned. Further, what do they contribute? Nada. Bikers built Picture Rock, runners are just lucky it's there.
    I don't disagree with you headhunter. To be fair, though, I spent a lot of time swinging tools on Picture Rock and plenty of that time was side by side with runners, hikers, equestrians and cyclists. In addition, the Boulder Trail Runners group has volunteered along with several other organizations to help steward trail at Boulder County Open Space.

    If we could just educate them to smile and say hello, now. Wait, aren't we still trying to do that amongst mountain bikers
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  60. #60
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    The majority of riders, runners, and hikers, are quite nice. I focus on that and I have met some rude/standoffish mtn bikers who I just assume are having a tough day or life. If they don't say Hi or nod, I just smile anyway since I'm always having a blast.

    But yeah, I have met more standoffish bikers here than anywhere else. Then again, I have also met the nicest guys and girls here so I'm well ahead of the curve and the rude ones were "cancelled" out a long time ago by the nice ones. Maybe they just think I'm an overly talkative or friendly freakaziod if I say "Hi" or "Hey, how's it going"....so be it. Be nice anyway. You yourself will be much happier that way.

    Trails rule breakers- tell them it you don't want them to ride over the body of your dead pet Llama and Ostrich you buried there. It should freak them out enough to remember that the next time.

  61. #61
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    Longman,
    I suppose I owe you an apology, there has obviously been a misunderstanding. I was referring to Boulder, Colorado. Furthermore, nothing I write/say should ever be taken seriously.
    Also, I'm sure you're better than me, but that is akin to being taller than a midget.
    Every now and then, a guy with an injury, too much time on his hands and too much booze in his gut likes to stir the pot a bit.
    I do, however, stand by what I say about "Boulder Guy". I also think he should know that everybody doesn't love him as much as he loves himself. So if you're speeding through my neighborhood in your Audi/WRX, with a $5,000 bike and Rocket Box on the roof, while talking/texting on your phone and wearing $300 sunglasses: eat a dick.
    Tequila tonight, tomorrow we ride!

  62. #62
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    M Train, apology not needed. Tis the tinternets and I don't take it seriously, or much else for that matter.

    I live in Boulder but do not/would not own an Audi/WRX...my 97 Camry has a metallic pink tiger stripe and a leopard skin RockyMount on the roof and it's christened 'The Clit magnet'. I agree that there are some dbags but there are also a lot of really cool people, just like most places I've been so I try not to let the w@nkers get to me. Plus the 'dbag Audi/WRX drivers' help put bread on my table so I have to be careful what I say

    it seems however that you are bitter about the Boulder Guy with the nice car/bike/rocketbox/shades/cell phone/a$$. Maybe they were on a ride and their mom had a stroke so they are driving fast to get to the hospital, trying to call someone to look after their kids and wearing the shades to hide the tears?

    speeding is a nono in any built up area, remember, it's always someone's neighborhood.

  63. #63
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    Thanks for pointing out the good works of others in the trail user community.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    It's not all of Colorado, it's the Front Range. I think there are just too many recreators per mile of trail.

    I'm used to seeing fewer people on the trail elsewhere but still think a greeting is nice. I guess I shouldn't expect a response but can't reconcile having someone say hello to me and ignoring them. It seem wrong.
    Totally agree w/ too many recreators per mile. Especially PR. I would rate that trail as one of the more enjoyable Front Range rides, but it loses serious points due to the traffic/lack of courtesy. I will not be back to ride that trail anytime soon! I find the trails in Denver foothills (although not the best IMO) much friendlier than the areas up north. May the flames commence...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidiot
    Totally agree w/ too many recreators per mile. Especially PR. I would rate that trail as one of the more enjoyable Front Range rides, but it loses serious points due to the traffic/lack of courtesy. I will not be back to ride that trail anytime soon! I find the trails in Denver foothills (although not the best IMO) much friendlier than the areas up north. May the flames commence...
    I don't what it is about PR, but the behavior and vibes given off by riders there stand in stark contrast to Hall Ranch, where bad attitudes and poor trail etiquette are pretty rare (not that everyone at PR is a bad actor, which is clearly not the case). The contrast between the two trails is especially puzzling because they are only a few miles apart. Maybe it's just because PR is new and people are still busy sussing out the trail's vagaries while ignoring other riders and users. My prediction is that PR will probably get a lot better as time goes on. Meanwhile, I'm riding Hall Ranch.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundraline
    ...but the behavior and vibes given off by riders there stand in stark contrast to Hall Ranch, where bad attitudes and poor trail etiquette are pretty rare...
    Thank you for my morning laugh. Look, both are popular FR trails that do there job, keeping the majority of riders off the trails I ride. If you ride either of these trails during prime time (weekends, after work) expect traffic and lead by example.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Thank you for my morning laugh. Look, both are popular FR trails that do there job, keeping the majority of riders off the trails I ride. If you ride either of these trails during prime time (weekends, after work) expect traffic and lead by example.
    I ride Hall Ranch at prime time only, and the same for PR. I ride one of the two trails 4-5 times per week, even in cold weather (I live in Lyons and am only about a mile away from both trailheads). The difference in rider behavior between the two trails is both noticeable and curious.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundraline
    I don't what it is about PR, but the behavior and vibes given off by riders there stand in stark contrast to Hall Ranch, where bad attitudes and poor trail etiquette are pretty rare (not that everyone at PR is a bad actor, which is clearly not the case). The contrast between the two trails is especially puzzling because they are only a few miles apart. Maybe it's just because PR is new and people are still busy sussing out the trail's vagaries while ignoring other riders and users. My prediction is that PR will probably get a lot better as time goes on. Meanwhile, I'm riding Hall Ranch.
    The more I think about it, the more I think traffic volume differences account primarily for the differences in trail etiquette observed between PR and Hall Ranch. PR, being a new and important addition to Boulder County's singletrack inventory, has significantly more MTB traffic than Hall Ranch. Over time, PR will probably become less frantic (and more fun). More MTBers on a trail = more opportunity for the rules of trail etiquette to be breached.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundraline
    I ride Hall Ranch at prime time only, and the same for PR. I ride one of the two trails 4-5 times per week, even in cold weather (I live in Lyons and am only about a mile away from both trailheads). The difference in rider behavior between the two trails is both noticeable and curious.

    I guess "rider behavior" is a subjective thing then. I live up 7 and drive past Hall's 5 days a week and ride elsewhere to avoid it. Sure, I'll hit it in the off-season but prime-time... no thanks. Funny thing is that I used to hate Hall's until I realized the trail is actually fun, it's the other users who make it a pain.
    PR is going to get much more traffic than Hall's b/c it's easier in my opinion. You're going to get more new riders there. My guess is that all that ST that PR currently has will soon be just like Hall's... wide.
    Answer this for me, in your opinion prior to PR opening what trail in BoCo had the worst rider etiquette going? My answer without a doubt would be Hall's.
    Regardless, as I stated the trails each serve their purpose.
    Just for the record, I yield like a MF'er.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Answer this for me, in your opinion prior to PR opening what trail in BoCo had the worst rider etiquette going? My answer without a doubt would be Hall's. Regardless, as I stated the trails each serve their purpose. Just for the record, I yield like a MF'er.
    I'm the wrong person to ask about which BoCo trail has the worst rider etiquette because the only two trails I ride (with rare exceptions) are Hall Ranch and Picture Rock. In my opinion, rider etiquette at Hall Ranch seems to have improved over the past year, possibly due to the regular presence of Boulder Mountain Bike Patrol members on the trail. Everyone's experiences on the two trails will be different and a certain amount of randomness is also at work. I guess it depends on who is on the trail when you're riding it. I've had great days at PR and HR where everyone is being respectful and following the rules, and other days where I've met complete tools, one after the other. Overall though, the vast majority of riders understand they are on public land, and that others will be joining them on the trail. I feel lucky that two such incredible trails are right out my door and that I get to ride them regularly. I can't imagine not being able to ride them, and so will likely never move away form Lyons.

  71. #71
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    Man, this thread is getting funnier every time I come back and read more.
    What self-righteous SOB's you all are.

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